FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[LD0506]

At this point, the guy I am really pulling for is Keenum. I want to see him feeling challenged, "here we go again!", going into camp to try and earn as many games as possible, feeling the kid nipping at his heels. Haskins as the heir apparent will drive to push him aside, maybe overreach a tad and learn something, CK can ride that tension to excel, either way you get the best of both. Personally I think we are in an enviable position, the overwhelming majority of fans and media still have the shell-shocked "Oh it's just those Redskins" reflex still twitchin' in their psyches, no one genuinely expects us to do anything spectacular. Always the bridesmaid also-rans has been the peak of expectations from this team for a long time, pretty much the whole lives of a lot of the fanbase. I'd rather the media found some new shiny toy to jabber about and just stopped talking about us. The coaches need to be wow-ed, they need to put aside their egos and buy in to this team. There's a lot more than just Haskins going on, and we could come outta somebodys peripheral vision and bite their ass clean off if they play this right.

 

One thing that I see possible that is a little sad will be if Keenum starts the season, does reasonable well but ends up on medcart to open the Haskins era. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, LD0506 said:

At this point, the guy I am really pulling for is Keenum. I want to see him feeling challenged, "here we go again!", going into camp to try and earn as many games as possible, feeling the kid nipping at his heels. Haskins as the heir apparent will drive to push him aside, maybe overreach a tad and learn something, CK can ride that tension to excel, either way you get the best of both. Personally I think we are in an enviable position, the overwhelming majority of fans and media still have the shell-shocked "Oh it's just those Redskins" reflex still twitchin' in their psyches, no one genuinely expects us to do anything spectacular. Always the bridesmaid also-rans has been the peak of expectations from this team for a long time, pretty much the whole lives of a lot of the fanbase. I'd rather the media found some new shiny toy to jabber about and just stopped talking about us. The coaches need to be wow-ed, they need to put aside their egos and buy in to this team. There's a lot more than just Haskins going on, and we could come outta somebodys peripheral vision and bite their ass clean off if they play this right.

 

One thing that I see possible that is a little sad will be if Keenum starts the season, does reasonable well but ends up on medcart to open the Haskins era. 

 

I'm not pulling for any of them.

 

For once, I can say I like all three of our quarterbacks.

 

I don't view Colt as a full-time NFL starter. I view Keenum as a fringe NFL starter. I view Haskins as a future NFL starter.

 

Colt, however, may be the best QB on the team as it stands right now. Dude knows this system inside and out. 

 

Keenum is a competitor, and if Haskins winds up starting he's going to have to earn it against these two guys.

 

May the best man (grasp of playbook, physical skills, leadership, locker room support) win.

[ThePackisback]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm not pulling for any of them.

 

For once, I can say I like all three of our quarterbacks.

 

I don't view Colt as a full-time NFL starter. I view Keenum as a fringe NFL starter. I view Haskins as a future NFL starter.

 

Colt, however, may be the best QB on the team as it stands right now. Dude knows this system inside and out. 

 

Keenum is a competitor, and if Haskins winds up starting he's going to have to earn it against these two guys.

 

May the best man (grasp of playbook, physical skills, leadership, locker room support) win.

You guys need to start the future of your franchise right from the start.

[KDawg]

Just now, ThePackisback said:

You guys need to start the future of your franchise right from the start.

 Just like the Pack did with Rodgers...

 

The Skins need to play the guy who wins the job.

 

 

[ThePackisback]

Just now, KDawg said:

 Just like the Pack did with Rodgers...

 

The Skins need to play the guy who wins the job.

 

 

We should have started Rodgers sooner. I'm just think this guy is the next Aaron Rodgers for ya.

[NickyJ]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I'm not pulling for any of them.

 

For once, I can say I like all three of our quarterbacks.

Josh Woodrum gets no love.

[KDawg]

Just now, NickyJ said:

Josh Woodrum gets no love.

After watching him in AAF, he is lucky he signed with a team as a camp arm.

[ThePackisback]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

After watching him in AAF, he is lucky he signed with a team as a camp arm.

What do you think of the Skins schedule this year?

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

What do you think of the Skins schedule this year?

 

I don't really analyze schedules. Every year sees teams that were good the previous year disappoint and teams that disappointed last season be impressive.

 

It's a schedule. Where games of football will be played.

 

From just a broad view, it looks like if the Skins make the playoffs they're going to earn it.

 

To keep the thread on topic: I don't think that should matter in whether Haskins plays or not. If he wins the job, he should start.

[ThePackisback]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't really analyze schedules. Every year sees teams that were good the previous year disappoint and teams that disappointed last season be impressive.

 

It's a schedule. Where games of football will be played.

 

From just a broad view, it looks like if the Skins make the playoffs they're going to earn it.

 

To keep the thread on topic: I don't think that should matter in whether Haskins plays or not. If he wins the job, he should start.

He will win it. I'm excited to see how he does.

[RandyHolt]

Many people think he needs to sit.  Mind you, I don't deny that he isn't a well polished prototypical NFL drop back pocket passer.

 

But what will he learn by sitting for a month or 2, that Jay could just eliminate him from needing to know?  He will have struggles, but in those areas that he struggles, eliminate those things for the short term.  Ease in that which he has not learned or mastered, later. KISS rocks.

 

It just seems a lot easier for Jay to change, vs expect Haskins to learn from sitting.  I also still question Jay being the person to develop him, short of a contract extension.  Especially if he is going to sit for a year because that is what we think is best because we were told that for decades. Jay abhorring hurry up gun all year (bet on it), the team floundering as per usual (7-9 here we come), coupled with the kid stapled to the bench to work on footwork, should seal Jay's fate.

 

SO, if Jay is going to play him to save his job despite his development level (which does not seem far fetched), the question is not when should he start, it's what will Jay expect him to do.

 

What would really suck is for Jay to decide he is simply not polished enough in his dropbacks/footwork for a drop back offense, and shelf him all year. Jay gets fired, and replaced by a coach that doesn't obsess over footwork, and caters his playbook to the kid. And we waste a year of our new QB at a low cap hit, forced to learn a playbook he was never trusted to run.  A young QB getting wrecked mentally is not solely from unblocked linebackers blitzing on every play.

It's also from a carousel of offensive coordinators and playbooks he is forced to digest. Traditionally, none of which cater to the new QB's strengths.  And making him sit, is a very traditional, and I contend, a very dated approach.

[Thinking Skins]

 

[RandyHolt]

Has anyone ever heard a conclusive statement from a head coach that he did not like his new first round QB?

 

I expect damage control from all the smoke we have been seeing, regardless. I love him, he is the only QB I wanted, blah blah.

 

Put yourself in Jay's shoes. He is coaching for his next contract, He needs wins, needs to play his new QB, and needs to clutch onto his playbook for that is all he will have in his next stop.

 

 

[Llevron]

26 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Has anyone ever heard a conclusive statement from a head coach that he did not like his new first round QB?

 

I expect damage control from all the smoke we have been seeing, regardless. I love him, he is the only QB I wanted, blah blah.

 

Hes been pretty honest in the past. He was specifically hired to make RG3 work and he sat his ass in the preseason if I remember correctly. He was never a fan, from the jump and he was always honest about it. This is working differently than in the past if hes lying about it. I can understand you being suspicious though. 

 

They may actually have played it smart this time. We are never going to be rid of Snyder unless hes dead. And evil never dies. So we might as well root for him figuring it out after 20 years. 

[Fresh8686]

https://thefandc.radio.com/dwayne-haskins-has-scary-abilities-could-be-multi-year-project

 

Quote

There are two traits Dwayne Haskins possesses that stand out above all others to Doug Farrar. Both, for very different reasons, leave him wondering about Jay Gruden's thinking.
 

"One is that he reads defenses, and scans coverages and makes throws against what he sees quickly like an NFL veteran on his second contract," Farrar told Chad Dukes of 106.7 The Fan. "He's one of the most highly developed read throwers – he's not a see it and throw it guy."
 

"There are guys in the NFL who do not read defenses as well as Dwayne Haskins does," he said. "Which is astonishing because he's basically a one-year starter like Kyler Murray was. And he was throwing 50 touchdowns and eight picks against big boy competition. He gets McLaurin, who he threw I think 10 touchdowns and no interceptions to last year. He's got a good offensive line.
 

"And the thing about Gruden is he's a structured... he doesn't like a lot of improv. And he would rather – and we've seen this through his career in Cincinnati and the nation's capital – he would rather take the less talented quarterback, who will adhere to his system, than the more talented guy, who will sort of run around outside his structure, because Gruden is all about structure. So, in that regard, Haskins is as perfect a rookie quarterback for Gruden as there could be."
 

"The part that's the problem," Farrar said, "is Haskins under pressure, and there are some ugly numbers here. By whatever measure you want to use, his efficiency plummeted when he didn't have a clean pocket. And that was pressure from the side that forced him to roll out, which he's really not good at. He's not good at throwing on the run at all."
 

"This is a major problem in a Gruden system where, from Andy Dalton. He wanted Kirk Cousins to do it. He couldn't quite merge with RG3, but obviously RG3 healthy was great throwing on the run. Through Alex Smith, through whoever. Gruden's always wanted a guy who can roll and reduce the field, hit the easy read and go. Haskins is not that guy."
 

"Compare pocket movement to moving around in a small boxing ring, and trying to avoid punches and land punches at the same time," Farrar explained. "Avoiding punches is avoiding pressure and landing punches is making throws. He's as good in that, say, one-yard by one-yard area as a lot of NFL quarterbacks already.
 

"Now, like Brady, like Foles, like a Drew Bledsoe, who I've compared him to, the less mobile out-of-the-pocket quarterbacks, he struggles with pressure in his face. And Brady, by the way, is deadly when you try and pressure him to the side, because he'll just move around and kill you. Haskins in the pocket can do that, doesn't always, and he's just a very unstable thrower under pressure."
 

"So when I say multi-year project," he went on, "this isn't a few mechanical kinks that you can work out. Gruden's gonna have to build him up from like the bottom up. He's gonna have to invent a quarterback in Haskins who is good under pressure, who is good rolling out. Part of that you can do with simple mechanical fixes, and 'these are your three concepts when you roll out,' so he's not overthinking it, so he has a structure and a rhythm. You're trying to invent rhythm outside the pocket with a quarterback who doesn't have any."
 

"It's not about creating a mobile quarterback," he said. "Can you sort of spackle one together? Can you work on his movement efficiency in the offseason and in the preseason? Can you give him pressure concepts? Can you coach him up? Because he's extremely coachable, as I've said."
 

"For a rookie, for a guy who's never played an NFL down, the extent to which he's able to process things is scary," Farrar said of Haskins. "If your quarterback has the mental acuity to get things done and he's got a few physical dings, I guess you can imagine to figure that out. I've seen big, lumbering quarterbacks who weren't that smart and it just didn't happen, and that's not the case with Haskins.
 

"I think (Gruden's) just thinking, 'Look. I've got a guy here who can do things... No other quarterback I've had has his arm and his processing speed, except maybe Alex Smith, and I can just figure out the rest.'"

 

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Hes been pretty honest in the past. He was specifically hired to make RG3 work and he sat his ass in the preseason if I remember correctly. He was never a fan, from the jump and he was always honest about it. This is working differently than in the past if hes lying about it. I can understand you being suspicious though. 

 

They may actually have played it smart this time. We are never going to be rid of Snyder unless hes dead. And evil never dies. So we might as well root for him figuring it out after 20 years. 

 

Nice post.  And I totally forgot Jay sat RG3.  Of course, III may have been damaged goods at that point, or maybe needed to be converted to a pocket passer. Regardless Jay saw he was a lost cause, or that Kirk was a much better fit 😉. 

 

How Shanahan catered his offense around RG3 is the type of thing I would like to see tried with Haskins. I don't think it will take much, maybe just more calling of plays that minimize the almost insanely technical QB footwork we know looms large in his future.  OSU ran pro style concepts so I keep going back to gun vs drop back being the major difference for Dwayne to get sorted out. And Jay, too. OSU changed their offensive approach just for Haskins, and Haskins proved well in that system.  How many weeks of struggles in Jay's traditional offense would we take before clamoring for Case?  I will be the lone voice clamoring for OSUs playbook, instead. Or, Ryan Day.

 

If you play a young QB, he needs to have positive returns.  That is key to playing vs clipboarding a young QB.  Positive reinforcement > Jay's old playbook.

 

No offense, but I don't want to see Case Keenum in Jay's old offense. Short of a monster performance from Case, we will all be counting the snaps until we see Dwayne.  If we had a viable WR corps, maybe Case could make that happen. I won't hold my breath.

 

So we will have the training wheels on our offense anyways, right?   Training wheels = we mind as well go with Dwayne.  I don't want training wheels on the kid, but have realistic expectations with our lame duck wideouts.

 

I want to see Dwayne in a hybrid of Jay/OSUs playbook, or at worst, run run short pass punt repeat.

[evmiii]

Everybody knows Haskins is the future (or will atleast get a shot at it), but that doesn't have to start week one.  Gruden will start who ever he thinks gives him the best chance to win and keep his job.  I believe starting and developing a rookie QB could actually give Gruden a longer window so I would be shocked if Haskins isn't the starter by mis season, but probably not week one.  I believe that Haskins will be given every opportunity to start and Keenum will have a short leash, but I think Keenum will jog out in week one.  if Keenum starts all year it most likely means things our going well, but anything short of playoff bound will start the Haskins era sooner than later.  HTTR.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[bedlamVR]

I think the reality is the other side of the ball. I really do.

 

If none of the QBs separate in the preseason - i i just don't think we have the horses to light up the scoring i think you pencil in a vet (colt or Chase) whoever has the safest hands, but you get the kid ready - have him officially as the No.2 so he gets some of the in-season practice reps . If the defense is on point - and I really do think they can be a phenominal D this year and they are keeping the scoring low (less than 14 points a game - then with a decent running game the kid wont have to do a awful lot (simplified O) and i can see some worth in getting him on the field..  and maybe we don't end up north of 8-8 but we might be respectful. 

[RandyHolt]

29 minutes ago, evmiii said:

Everybody knows Haskins is the future (or will atleast get a shot at it), but that doesn't have to start week one.  Gruden will start who ever he thinks gives him the best chance to win and keep his job.  I believe starting and developing a rookie QB could actually give Gruden a longer window so I would be shocked if Haskins isn't the starter by mis season, but probably not week one.  I believe that Haskins will be given every opportunity to start and Keenum will have a short leash, but I think Keenum will jog out in week one.  if Keenum starts all year it most likely means things our going well, but anything short of playoff bound will start the Haskins era sooner than later.  HTTR.

 

Good point. By playing Dwayne, it may actually give Jay a longer leash.  Everyone knows I am not alone in wanting to see the kid; Dan wants to see him, too. I am not sure how long Jay can hold that off, short of winning. 

 

I am bit surprised so many have already decided they want him to sit the entire year, without even learning how Jay intends to use him or judging him by his preseason performance. It's a new dawn of QB development in the NFL.... it's called feet to the fire. We see it every year now, it seems.

 

Case will need an Alex Smith 2017 type of year to hold him off all year.  I feel confident in saying Jay will use last years approach, slow play run / bend dont break D, so Case will be looking at 2018 Alex Smith numbers.  Yawn.  Perhaps the D struggling (read: LOSSES) will be what gets Dwayne in fastest.  Case won't be asked to do enough to fail spectacularly.  Take the unders.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Assumption based on NOT seeing any preseason games from Haskins

1) Jay KNOWS Colt can run his offense and likes Colt's aggression. I think he trusts Colt to Start and give him the shot (*i* think he's deserving of)

2) See which Keenum shoes up in preseason (Maybe work a trade for him if Colt looks healthy and Haskins shows progress as backup.

3) Let Haskins run the scout teams and some 11 on 11 and see how he does against our D. If he can beat OUR D.. then step two/trade Keenum.

 

Thats how I would play it...Unless Keenum lights up the preseason..then Colt may get cut.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'v been watching quite a few interviews with Haskins lately ,  seems like such a nice kid and family oriented. I almost feel bad for him being a QB and coming here... Fingers crossed we need a Franchise QB in the worst way

[Burgold]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Colt, however, may be the best QB on the team as it stands right now. Dude knows this system inside and out. 

 

For some reason, I always think of Colt as Rex Grossman. A quarterback whose a gunslinger at heart whose brain knows what to do, but asks things of his arm that it can't quite execute. His interceptions are good throws if he had better velocity.  His aim is true if he can generate just a little more oomph. Both Rex and Colt never seem to grasp what they can't do.

 

Case seems like a really good underdog story and I can't shake the feeling that he was wronged by Minnesota in the way Trent Dilfer was. Baltimore thought if they upgraded from Trent they'd perennial Super Bowl contenders. Somehow, Trent fit that team and even though he was an inferior qb he was the right qb. I feel like the Vikes made that same mistake and it'd be great for Case to prove 'em wrong.

 

I wasn't rooting for a first round QB pick, but if Haskins is our guy... I hope he turns into a 21st Century Dan Marino or Warren Moon. I think he has the release, the football IQ, and the arm. Hope he becomes a great.

[goskins10]

41 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Assumption based on NOT seeing any preseason games from Haskins

1) Jay KNOWS Colt can run his offense and likes Colt's aggression. I think he trusts Colt to Start and give him the shot (*i* think he's deserving of)

2) See which Keenum shoes up in preseason (Maybe work a trade for him if Colt looks healthy and Haskins shows progress as backup.

3) Let Haskins run the scout teams and some 11 on 11 and see how he does against our D. If he can beat OUR D.. then step two/trade Keenum.

 

Thats how I would play it...Unless Keenum lights up the preseason..then Colt may get cut.

 

No one is going anywhere. They will carry 3 QBs unless someone gets injured in preseason, and even then I would expect them to bring someone in. Keenum is here because there are no promises on Colt's injury. Colt is not going anywhere as he knows the system best - better than several of the coaches. If you are going to be careful with any position, it's QB. One of them will be inactive every week. 

 

No reason to trade Keenum, not to mention you will not get much for him if anything. He is a cheap insurance policy. 

[Est.1974]

Haskins will be fine.

 

Gruden as already said he likes to win games 21-13 or whatever it was. Our defense is going to be stacked. Keep Haskins upright, run our RBs into the ground and Haskins can fill in the gaps with a tidy 250yards per game outing.