abdcskins Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Going by the eye test, I would have to say that Haskins doesn't have the intangible, "it." I say that because he looks uncomfortable out there. He doesn't process things quickly. I really want to see him do well, but I have severe doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 See if anyone can finish this sentence... Gus Frerotte is the most successful QB that was drafted by the Redskins over the past ___ years , since we drafted ____ in the year _____ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I feel like there is a huge elephant in the room and we are walking on eggshells by not admitting what we are seeing out of Haskins. I do think he was better but only because he went from rough to mildly competent. I don't know that I have ever seen a QB come into the league and look this unprepared and then all a sudden one day it clicks. There's usually some initial flash of talent followed by mistakes and I haven't seen any flashes out of Haskins so far, not good ones. This may come off as harsh but it truly feels like I'm watching someone who has no idea what they are doing and is trying to get up to speed in a short amount of time, almost like a replacement player or something. Nothing personal at Haskins, I hope he succeeds but I think we are fooling ourselves with the hope he's Jared Goff who is by far the exception and not the rule when it comes to a QB looking so poor and then doing a complete 180 the next season. I just haven't seen that happen too much in 35 years of NFL football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I'm not even a big believer in Haskins, but it's incredible how quickly some are writing him off. I mean if he doesn't show improvement over the remaining games, yeah, I get it. But one start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: Nothing personal at Haskins, I hope he succeeds but I think we are fooling ourselves with the hope he's Jared Goff who is by far the exception and not the rule when it comes to a QB looking so poor and then doing a complete 180 the next season. On the flip side, can you name some QB's who have had as little around them as Haskins does (talent, coaches, FO structure) who have come in and looked good right away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Brandon Allen looked good yesterday for the Broncos. Other teams do a better job of recognizing quarterback talent and coaching that talent up to be successful. I do not think Haskins is going to be Jared Goff. I am worried he will be worse than RGIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, Hooper said: I will say I'm getting a little uncomfortable with reading stuff from Czabe and even Sally Jenkins that is basically saying -- or in Czabe's case -- outright saying that Haskins is dumb. He's 22. Not every QB is super polished out on the field or off the field out of the gate. Hell, Brett Favre was literally a drunk who didn't know any of the plays in Atlanta and even Green Bay until he was made the starter. He is open about that. Dumb... lazy... kinda weird how it's always the black QBS they say that about. Baloney, many people questioned Terry Bradshaw's intelligence when he was a rookie. Many others also, it doesn't matter what they look like. If a guy struggles to understand the playbook and process what he sees on the field people are going to questions whether the guy has the right sort of intelligence for the position. Haskins is getting the chance to play and in my view, his first start was a positive first step. According to reports, he is doing better at calling the play in the huddle which was a point of emphasis this week. He didn't have any pro-style experience in college so this is all new so I think his first start was positive and now he has a couple of weeks to prepare for his next start. I'll be pissed if Haskins doesn't start next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: On the flip side, can you name some QB's who have had as little around them as Haskins does (talent, coaches, FO structure) who have come in and looked good right away? Atlanta in Matt Ryans rookie year is the only one I can think of offhand, they were picked to win 1 or 2 games and had just unloaded a bunch of players thinking they were looking at a rebuild, they made the playoffs. Without really digging into old data that's about it. I'm just trying to be honest about what I am seeing, by no means am I saying it has never happened or it cant happen. I look forward to seeing him play out the season but man, he looks rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Haskins PFF ratings thus far based on location. Granted small sample and premature. But for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: Atlanta in Matt Ryans rookie year is the only one I can think of offhand, they were picked to win 1 or 2 games and had just unloaded a bunch of players thinking they were looking at a rebuild, they made the playoffs. Without really digging into old data that's about it. I'm just trying to be honest about what I am seeing, by no means am I saying it has never happened or it cant happen. I look forward to seeing him play out the season but man, he looks rough. We don't know if Callahan is going to start Haskins the rest of the season yet or not. He should start him. We aren't going to the playoffs that's for sure. We need to see what we have in him this season to see if he grows through playing. We need to see if he is out future or if we need to go in another direction at QB in 2020 or 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, Hooper said: I'm not even a big believer in Haskins, but it's incredible how quickly some are writing him off. I mean if he doesn't show improvement over the remaining games, yeah, I get it. But one start? I think the majority of fans who are skeptical of Haskins have this basic approach: They know that next year's quarterback draft class is stacked, and that there is a very good possibility that the Redskins will be in a position to take one who will either have a similar or higher ceiling than Haskins, and will be more pro-ready than Haskins is right now. And the reality of the situation that it's not "writing him off", it's just that they have zero faith in this franchise developing him properly, let alone bypassing on a (potential) better "can't miss" quarterback to try and get something out of him. I think at best people expect minimal improvement (assuming he starts the rest of the year) by season's end. And it's unsettling to see the #15 overall draft pick look completely different than guys taken as fliers in later rounds (Minshew, Allen). And then there's the very real criticism that he was a Snyder pick, and not a football personnel one. My personal opinion is that he isn't going to succeed here, and that is solely because of who runs this organization. Had he been drafted by a team like the Chargers, I think his future would have been bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 43 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: I feel like there is a huge elephant in the room and we are walking on eggshells by not admitting what we are seeing out of Haskins. I do think he was better but only because he went from rough to mildly competent. I don't know that I have ever seen a QB come into the league and look this unprepared and then all a sudden one day it clicks. There's usually some initial flash of talent followed by mistakes and I haven't seen any flashes out of Haskins so far, not good ones. This may come off as harsh but it truly feels like I'm watching someone who has no idea what they are doing and is trying to get up to speed in a short amount of time, almost like a replacement player or something. Nothing personal at Haskins, I hope he succeeds but I think we are fooling ourselves with the hope he's Jared Goff who is by far the exception and not the rule when it comes to a QB looking so poor and then doing a complete 180 the next season. I just haven't seen that happen too much in 35 years of NFL football. I think we saw flashes of talent with some long throws in the preseason games. Yesterday I think we saw a guy who was able to play composed with a very limited set of plays and have a positive outing which is all we could hope for with him given the minimal preparation he had at Ohio State. The Redskins took a huge risk when they drafted Haskins who had only 13 games in a very limited offensive scheme. The contrast between his limited preparation for the NFL and that of Cousins who started in a pro-style offense for 3 years after 2 additional years in the program is really extreme. Cousins had already proven his capacity to make calls in huddle, call protections and make audibles at the line of scrimmage and understand route trees and progressions. When he got to the Redskins his challenge was to take it up a level in complexity and speed but for Haskins, all this complexity is all new. Haskins should be expected to make progress from the baseline he established yesterday over the next 7 games. We shouldn't expect a finished product at the end of December but noticeable progress in the number of plays he can handle and the smartness of execution. What we should look for from him progress that demonstrates a capacity to learn and master the position over time. Let's keep a positive thought about this young and hope the dunderheads who run the franchise finally got something right, they are long over due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 54 minutes ago, abdcskins said: Going by the eye test, I would have to say that Haskins doesn't have the intangible, "it." I say that because he looks uncomfortable out there. He doesn't process things quickly. I really want to see him do well, but I have severe doubts. I don't think Haskins will be a superstar, elite, franchise altering QB. Those types are usually at the very least good to very good right away and eventually end up being great. I do think Haskins can be a good solid QB you can build a winner around IF you put the proper pieces around him both on the field and in terms of player development and coaching/FO. Which, of course, is not something we're capable of in the Snyder era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Cold Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 We should all remember the rule of thumb that applies here...you generally are gonna see what you’re looking for. Those that want him to do well, will see glimmer of hope. Those that have eyes towards a qb heavy draft will pick him apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Stone Cold said: We should all remember the rule of thumb that applies here...you generally are gonna see what you’re looking for. Those that want him to do well, will see glimmer of hope. Those that have eyes towards a qb heavy draft will pick him apart... I don't know. I think we have opinionated people here, but also people who are pretty objective. For the most part I agree with you, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 define flash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: I don't think Haskins will be a superstar, elite, franchise altering QB. Those types are usually at the very least good to very good right away and eventually end up being great. I do think Haskins can be a good solid QB you can build a winner around IF you put the proper pieces around him both on the field and in terms of player development and coaching/FO. Which, of course, is not something we're capable of in the Snyder era. How can anybody project a ceiling on this kid who is really getting his first exposure to the position this year? I have no idea if this kid can make it at all or become a top tier quarterback from what little we have seen in his very limited action. We can all see a strong arm, some composure, and confidence but he's so green with all the concepts of pro-style offensive as well as the speed of things in the NFL it is impossible to assess how far he can progress. If they give him 7 more starts and he has learned significantly more of the offense and can execute it well for periods of time than I think there is every reason to hope he will be able to get over the hump and establish himself. Let's hope he can and he works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Stone Cold said: We should all remember the rule of thumb that applies here...you generally are gonna see what you’re looking for. Those that want him to do well, will see glimmer of hope. Those that have eyes towards a qb heavy draft will pick him apart... Confirmation bias is real. This season has the majority on same page to get Haskins all the reps and this is without pressure of fan base expecting him to win. You’d think this would assist in developing solid consensus by years end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 1 hour ago, wit33 said: Confirmation bias is real. This season has the majority on same page to get Haskins all the reps and this is without pressure of fan base expecting him to win. You’d think this would assist in developing solid consensus by years end. I think by nature we all have confirmation bias because we usual start with some preconceptions based on the past. For me it's mixed on Haskins so am more open on him than most players as for both good or bad opinions. The amateur draft geek in me didn't care for Haskins the player (so that's in the negative column). I tend to grade up the rare players I've seen first hand personality wise -- where I like said player (positive). I try to be consistent in giving every young QB a break and time to develop (positive), I tend to trust narratives that are said if they are consistent across the board about a player (thus far more negative than positive but enough positive to have some optimism). So for now I am a confused puppy about Haskins. A lot of mixed feelings. But I try to ride with the give a young QB narrative a chance drill first and foremost so I gather I lean positive for the time being because I think the dude deserves a break to play out the script before landing with a definitive verdict. https://theriotreport.com/scout-camp-2018-about-the-author/2/ Confirmed Bias Before I start this section I should first thank my friend and colleague Dan Kreso; If you find any of what is written here interesting, and hopefully you will, I strongly suggest that you check-out his complete piece on scouting biases. “Humans can come to conclusions from very little evidence, and more troublingly, are not aware of the lack of quality or quantity of the evidence. In other words – we jump to conclusions.” -Dan Kreso If we never came to any conclusions, scouting would be a fairly pointless affair, but the way in which we come to conclusions is often highly flawed and leads to significant errors in evaluation. A major reason for this is confirmation bias, or the idea that we look for things which confirm our prior conceptions of a player; these conceptions can either come from a few memorable plays we are aware of, a particular theme in the first few plays we see or simply from a known reputation of the player and (subconsciously) when watching tape, we look for things which fit into our preconceived view of what the player is like. “Rationally the first observation should not be given more weight than any other. But with the “positive test strategy” this is indeed what happens! If you see a wide receiver you have often watched before, and one you believe to be a reliable catcher of the ball, drop a pass, it is an uncharacteristic error. If he makes several drops, then he is just having a down patch in form. For a different player, where the sequence is reversed, however, it is easier to think of the wide receiver as a bad catcher who is having some uncharacteristically good form.” -Dan Kreso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Llevron said: define flash One example would be in 2012 when Kirk came in against Baltimore when RG3 was hurt and he led us to a TD with 34 seconds to go in the game, he made a really nice TD throw and then ran in the QB keeper for the 2 point conversion to send it to OT. Those were flashes IMO and he was only a rookie in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Just now, JSSkinz said: One example would be in 2012 when Kirk came in against Baltimore when RG3 was hurt and he led us to a TD with 34 seconds to go in the game, he made a really nice TD throw and then ran in the QB keeper for the 2 point conversion to send it to OT. Those were flashes IMO and he was only a rookie in 2012. Kirk killed it in the Cleveland game, too that year. I get wanting to see something like that from Haskins. but we got all season to watch that play out. Kirk had more college experience than Haskins. I agree if we see no flashes from Haskins moving forward, it's a reason for concern. I really got no clue about Haskins. But I think if he plays the rest of the games we will have an idea. a game and change I think is premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Play him. Grade his year and potential future. If it grades out as a 70% or better "future pro bowl QB" then you keep him, if its a percentage poiny off from that you trade him for a 3rd roundpick and draft another one. This is not meant to be harsh on him, its just what it is. The skins are a bloodied body barely hanging on for life, you make decisions very pragmatically in that situation and if you let emotion come into the equation the patient dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Hopefully this is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: One example would be in 2012 when Kirk came in against Baltimore when RG3 was hurt and he led us to a TD with 34 seconds to go in the game, he made a really nice TD throw and then ran in the QB keeper for the 2 point conversion to send it to OT. Those were flashes IMO and he was only a rookie in 2012. Ok thats what I wanted. Yea we haven't seen anything like that from Has yet but I do think its a little too early to say its not coming. Though hes admittedly way behind where Kirk was when he got here imo. We will see if he comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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