FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Vanguard]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So you’re under the impression that he “handled” this years draft and has an eye for talent?  Just out of curiosity, what leads you to believe that?

 

I used the word “handling” because I wasn’t privy to what his role was, but he did play a part.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

Well ill just have to speak for myself and say it doesn’t bother me.  If his contributions get us to the playoffs, I’m fine with it.  All I care about is winning, and doing it the right way.

Winning is the cure all.  I don’t think any of us would care how those in the FO spoke if they actually won, or even had a prior track record of winning.  

 

 

[Vanguard]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So you’re under the impression that he “handled” this years draft and has an eye for talent?  Just out of curiosity, what leads you to believe that?

 

 

Read the caption.  I haven’t watched the interview myself.

[Malapropismic Depository]

I think the hot word is that Kyle Smith is the real "leader" of the draft.

[Conn]

4 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

Doug’s body of work; being a Super Bowl quarterback, his handling of this years draft, and his eye for talent, is indicative of how well he knows football.  How he sounds is pretty irrelevant.

 

Doug's body of work as a personnel man and evidence of "his eye for talent" is actually pretty non-existent, so I don't really know what you mean by this. He is not qualified for the job or title he has here right now. It was nepotism through and through, and a nostalgic shield for Allen to wield against the fan base at the time of the hire. I'm sure he's picked up some things and become a voice in the room since then, but his entire post-playing career resume is basically his name earning him opportunity after opportunity. We have no idea how well he knows football (your words) but odds are pretty good that there is not a single NFL team besides ours that would give him the power or platform he has right now. 

 

Also, if Bruce is going to keep rolling Doug out there as the FO's face to the press, which was seemingly the job he was hired for at least in part, it absolutely matters how he sounds. But it doesn't really matter in this organization because he didn't get the job on merit in the first place--he won't lose it based on merit or lack thereof until everyone else gets fired as well. 

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

5 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

The only good news here is Williams publicly acknowledged that it won't be Jay's decision so no one here can be deluded about it.  For years we debated who made the call to continue to start Griffin in 2013 and 2014 when the answer was always obvious, it Dan's football team and he makes the decisions.

Apparently that's not how it's going down, DW said; it will be a group decision of Gruden, Allen, himself and management...I wonder who he means by management??? NOT!!!

How you cannot leave that decision up to your head coach really shows the disarray Danny brings to the team!!!  Head coaches in DC are basically marionettes in Danny's hand, it also tells us Danny is still involved in decision making, and all those pre-draft rumors we heard were probably correct; Danny and (Bruce the brown nose) wanted Haskins, and the rest of the organization wanted Daniel jones! 

[Vanguard]

3 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Doug's body of work as a personnel man and evidence of "his eye for talent" is actually pretty non-existent, so I don't really know what you mean by this. He is not qualified for the job or title he has here right now. It was nepotism through and through, and a nostalgic shield for Allen to wield against the fan base at the time of the hire. I'm sure he's picked up some things and become a voice in the room since then, but his entire post-playing career resume is basically his name earning him opportunity after opportunity. We have no idea how well he knows football (your words) but odds are pretty good that there is not a single NFL team besides ours that would give him the power or platform he has right now. 

 

Also, if Bruce is going to keep rolling Doug out there as the FO's face to the press, which was seemingly the job he was hired for at least in part, it absolutely matters how he sounds. But it doesn't really matter in this organization because he didn't get the job on merit in the first place--he won't lose it based on merit or lack thereof until everyone else gets fired as well. 

 

That’s your opinion.  Ive heard him talk about which players on this team he thinks would make the greatest contribution, and i generally agree.  He doesn’t go around talking up players like Samaje Perine like Jay does.  A player that’s had numerous opportunities and come up short.  Yet Jay continues to force feed us Samaje at every opportunity.

 

The players I’ve heard Doug talk up, I generally agree with.  Your opinion that his eye for talent is “non-existant, is what’s questionable.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

54 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

The players I’ve heard Doug talk up, I generally agree with.  Your opinion that his eye for talent is “non-existant, is what’s questionable.

I really hate these arguments, because I think the last thing any of us want to do is poop on Doug Williams.  Which is the reason he was hired and appointed to whatever it is that he is to begin with.

 

My question is this, if Doug has such a great eye for talent and "handling" drafts - why is he here? Do you honestly believe that if in the event he's let go from Washington he'll ever sniff this high of a post again, anywhere else in the NFL?  

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Relax...nowhere did it state the WEIGHT each person would carry in the decision. *MY* hope is that IF the competition is close, the deciding vote *could* be Dan to which I agree. If Case and Colt can't CLEARLY beat out the Rookie...Then start the Rookie. He has the most upside (as long as he doesn't get hurt-which the OL should be weighted heavily in the decision)

 

Preseason will tell

[CrypticVillain]

 

A nice quick read from the homie...

[goskins10]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I really hate these arguments, because I think the last thing any of us want to do is poop on Doug Williams.  Which is the reason he was hired and appointed to whatever it is that he is to begin with.

 

My question is this, if Doug has such a great eye for talent and "handling" drafts - why is he here? Do you honestly believe that if in the event he's let go from Washington he'll ever sniff this high of a post again, anywhere else in the NFL?  

 

I agree with the first part but to be fair your second paragraph is pretty much the same thing in reverse. Making the assumption that he since he is here there is no other place for him to go has nothing to support it. Just like saying he is great at player evaluation has no data. Maybe he didn't want to go to any other organizations.

 

The real issue is we do not know the exact workings - no real structure at least that we can see - but that also means we just do not know the extent to which he has influence or doesn't. All I know from watching is that the drafts have gotten better since he got here. Did he help? Did Kyle get better? Did they give Kyle more voice? Is Jay getting more voice? Did Dan get out of the way? Is Bruce actually a draft savant? Ok the last one was more for a laugh. 9 yrs - 2 PO appearances and no PO wins. Record speaks for itself. 

 

In the end this is the frustration for many of us including you I believe. We just do not know.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

58 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree with the first part but to be fair your second paragraph is pretty much the same thing in reverse. Making the assumption that he since he is here there is no other place for him to go has nothing to support it. Just like saying he is great at player evaluation has no data. Maybe he didn't want to go to any other organizations.

 

The real issue is we do not know the exact workings - no real structure at least that we can see - but that also means we just do not know the extent to which he has influence or doesn't. All I know from watching is that the drafts have gotten better since he got here. Did he help? Did Kyle get better? Did they give Kyle more voice? Is Jay getting more voice? Did Dan get out of the way? Is Bruce actually a draft savant? Ok the last one was more for a laugh. 9 yrs - 2 PO appearances and no PO wins. Record speaks for itself. 

 

In the end this is the frustration for many of us including you I believe. We just do not know.  

Fair enough.

 

My opinion is working off Doug's post football career working in a front office capacity.  Nothing stands out to me other than his relationship to Bruce, Tampa and Washington as to why he holds the position he does here.  Nothing about his resume or what I've heard from him breeds confidence that he's the best guy for the job or that he'd have a chance elsewhere should he depart from here. 

 

But to circle it back around, yes - the fact that we really don't know who does what, makes it difficult to assess where to assign both blame and praise.  

[757SeanTaylor21]

I think its the other way around that if the rookie doesnt clearly outplay case or colt then you start them. You want him to EARN it, not the other way around. 

[Vanguard]

1 hour ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

I think its the other way around that if the rookie doesnt clearly outplay case or colt then you start them. You want him to EARN it, not the other way around. 

 

Yea i would agree.  I hope he does earn it.  Dan will probably want to sell tickets, and starting Haskins is what will remedy that.  In one way or another, as long as its justified, Id like to see him play some this year.

[Malapropismic Depository]

24 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

Yea i would agree.  I hope he does earn it.  Dan will probably want to sell tickets, and starting Haskins is what will remedy that.

 

I'm confident that winning games will sell more tickets, than a certain player will.

If Haskins starts right away, and stumbles out of the gate, fans will be like "same 'ol Redskins".

[Mr. Sinister]

13 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Winning is the cure all.  

 

 

Catch 22, since this will never happen

[Vanguard]

9 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I'm confident that winning games will sell more tickets, than a certain player will.

If Haskins starts right away, and stumbles out of the gate, fans will be like "same 'ol Redskins".

 

If he does get in this year, I’m not expecting super star numbers.  I just hope there is improvement at the position, and that it translates to wins.  Similar to what Alex did, but maybe with more excitement.  And like you said, with more wins, which is what’s most important.

 

But Case is going to have to impress, if we decide to ride him the whole season.  The measuring stick for him is different, I don’t just want to see mistake free football.

[Veryoldschool]

I've been thinking about what Doug Williams said and it seems like its a good example of the classic mistake in Washington, someone telling the truth.  I appreciate Williams telling the truth but I don't believe Dan Snyder or Bruce Allen appreciated his candor.  Admitting that Dan Snyder and his staff, Allen and William's, are going to influence who the starter is tantamount to saying Dan Snyder is making the decision and this casts a cloud over any early decision to play Haskins. 

 

At best it will be viewed as a committee choice instead of a coaching staff decision and at worst Dan Snyder's decision with Williams and Allen echoing Dan Snyder's decision.  Does anyone here really expect Williams and Allen to forcibly resist Dan Snyder if they sense Snyder is eager to roll the dice with Haskins?  I don't expect them to resist, I expect them to reaffirm whatever Snyder is feeling.  I could envision Jay Gruden digging his heels and saying to Snyder Haskins isn't ready and he'll cost us wins and significantly diminish our chances to making the playoffs if he felt he had a better chance of going .500 or better with Keenum or McCoy because he was prepared to walk the plank over Griffin in 2015.  In 2015 Gruden had SM as an ally and thankfully for Gruden Kirk's play justified Gruden's evaluation but what potential ally does Gruden have now if he feels compelled to go with one of the veterans instead of Haskins?

[Wyvern]

I'm for sitting Haskins to let him learn more about NFL-level football, reading regular season defenses, getting the playbook and adjustment to automatic-memory level, and developing a better understanding of what his teammates are good at (especially his receiving corps).

 

Haskins didn't start right away at Ohio State and that may have contributed to how well he did, when he finally did get the starting QB role.  Why not try the same formula?

 

I don't buy into the argument that if Haskins looks great in the OTAs and in the preseason games against vanilla defenses -- that it means he's ready for the crucible of regular season football when the opponents defenses' gloves come off and he discovers how the Skins O-line and WRs aren't presenting him with time or targets to throw.  I'm not sure what being thrust into regular season NFL games early on, would do to his development, but I suspect it wouldn't be a positive thing.

 

If Haskins starts, simply as a marketing attraction to fill the seats, then it's more of the same old SnyderSkins philosophy of sacrificing the future for the present. I think the Skins lucked into a real find for their QB of the future, and so I don't want Haskins to be given the Ramsey treatment.

 

[RonYoungEra]

I know it’s the off-season and a message board, but could we try to refrain from making decisions about who we think should start week 1 until training camp has started and, ideally, a couple of preseason games have happened? 🤔

[Snagletooth]

How to split reps in preseason?  Do you let him start?  I don't want him taking reps behind scub O-line.  If Case is they guy he needs the 1st team reps too.

[LD0506]

7 hours ago, FireInHisBelly said:

I know it’s the off-season and a message board, but could we try to refrain from making decisions about who we think should start week 1 until training camp has started and, ideally, a couple of preseason games have happened? 🤔

 

Zero chance of that, we're like the guy marooned on a desert island dreaming about food and broads, reality has nothing to do with it.

[goskins10]

9 hours ago, FireInHisBelly said:

I know it’s the off-season and a message board, but could we try to refrain from making decisions about who we think should start week 1 until training camp has started and, ideally, a couple of preseason games have happened? 🤔

 

Hmmm. Exactly what else are we to do?  Isn’t that the purpose of the message board called Extreme Skins?  It’s not called Rational, be Patient and let things play out. And I include myself. 

 

This is the exact right place for hot takes, crazy talk, pie in the sky ideals and unicorns!!  👍😀  

[tmandoug1]

I am torn on this one....... Even if he performs well during preseason I am not sold he should  be the starter right out of the gate. I really would like to see him learn and grow into an NFL quarterback. Smart kid with the potential to be our future QB for two decades. 🤞 We started RGIII and broke him...... the man WHO'S NAME SHALL NOT BE SPOKEN sat and learned behind him turned out to be ok. To clarify I'm just a 52 yo arm chair Skins fan, but I think D. Haskins will be a force. Just needs time and a good QB mentor/coach. 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 6/27/2019 at 9:07 AM, goskins10 said:

 

 

The real issue is we do not know the exact workings - no real structure at least that we can see - but that also means we just do not know the extent to which he has influence or doesn't. All I know from watching is that the drafts have gotten better since he got here. Did he help? Did Kyle get better? Did they give Kyle more voice? Is Jay getting more voice? Did Dan get out of the way? Is Bruce actually a draft savant? Ok the last one was more for a laugh. 9 yrs - 2 PO appearances and no PO wins. Record speaks for itself. 

 

In the end this is the frustration for many of us including you I believe. We just do not know.  

 

When Doug was promoted, he promoted Kyle to run college scouting.  I give him credit for that and my guess is that was a game changer for college scouting.   Scott Campbell was in effect demoted and then left.  Campbell IMO has been likely a key part of our mostly mediocre drafts for a long time since he's been here for long and had titles overseeing college scouting.  I recall going back to the Cerrato days, hearing Vinny tout Campbell as being a key guy in their drafts.

 

Part of the reason why I'd guess Doug isn't anything special as a scout is its simply what the beat guys have mostly said from their own sources in the FO.  Even Chris Russell who really went to town for Doug years back to get promoted said he heard people in that building love the dude and think he's a great guy but don't think highly of him as a scout.  Who knows if this part is true but years back when someone allegedly run into Scot at a gas station and they got into a long conversation which was posted in multiple blogs -- he said the same thing to him about Doug from what I recall.  When I had my own conversation with Scot years ago, we talked player evaluation and the one dude he touted to me in that regard was Jay.  He didn't bring up Doug.   So I don't get the impression that Doug is a key scout-talent evaluator.  I could be wrong.  But I do like his promoting of Kyle and in turn it looks like they beefed up their scouting department some. 

 

Kyle on the other hand seems universally touted as a scout.  Even Shanny talked about seeing it himself when he was here.   There is a ton of smoke that Kyle is really good at scouting.  There is conversely some smoke that Doug isn't much of a scout -- but he's a good facilitator in that building because he's a nice-classy guy and some of that classiness might go a long way in a good sense in that building for obvious reasons. 😀