FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I cannot agree with you.  First, I don't want the team to cast Haskins as the starter like they did Griffin.  Second, I don't want the Skins to dummy down their WCO in order to rush Haskins on the field.  I want them to prepare Haskins for the opportunity to become the starter when he is ready when he is ready to run a WCO, which may not be this season.  I don't know what we have in Haskins but he has very limited experience as a 1 year college starter in what Cooley described as a very simple scheme.  It will be a big step to ingest and operate the Redskins offense and Haskins should be given the time to learn it.  We don't want Haskins thrown in before he's ready and standing clueless in the pocket like Griffin waiting to see a receiver break open because he doesn't understand things well enough to anticipate and throw to the open spot on time. 

 

The Skins have 2 other veterans on the payroll to start in 2019, hopefully Keenum take the lead and Dwayne Haskins absorb the thick playbook and complicated NFL defensive schemes in the safety of the film room, practice field and sidelines until he understands enough to have a fighting chance of perform decently.  This of course assumes he will have a functioning OL to protect him, sadly that wasn't the case in Washington the last two seasons and may be again.  

 

 

Good points, additionally, if DH is forced into the offense and struggles, the other rookies will struggle with him. If Case comes in and grasps it, the other young players can improve or thrive. And, dumbing down the offense for DH means limiting the offense for all the new kids. This is what the organization is gonna need to figure out.

[MartinC]

6 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 What about going to heavy shotgun... not counting on it. 

 

What would you define as heavy shotgun?

 

Because last season we had 624 snaps from the gun and only 342 from under centre.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

What would you define as heavy shotgun?

 

Because last season we had 624 snaps from the gun and only 342 from under centre.

 

To ride off of that point, the fears that some have that Jay won't accommodate Haskins I think are unfounded.  Haskins skills IMO are actually a good fit to Jay's offense.  I forgot which program featured the point but there was one where they talked pre-draft about what offense is the best fit to Haskins and some draft geeks on the panel picked the Redskins. 

 

Then you add O'Connell worked with Day in SF and has a good beat on what Haskins likes to run.  I think it's all a good fit.   If people want to ague that Jay wasn't interested in running the read option with our 2012 QB (albeit said QB seemed to want to move on from it, too) there is arguably some merit to that.  But Haskins is a traditional pocket passer -- well suited to Jay's system IMO.

[goskins10]

16 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

As long as he's throwing the ball away, so nobody can catch it.

It's obviously not the ideal scenario, but I'll take an incompletion anyday, over a sack, or an interception from trying to force it.

 

I agree of course but I did not see him throwing the ball away in a panic very often. The guy completed 70% of his passes. 

[wit33]

17 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I think the bolded is key to a positive learning experience for Dwayne should he get in this year.

 

I keep seeing Haskins killed teams with rhythm... will Jay get his offense moving that fast?  I highly doubt it. Non end of half/late in a blowouts I think Jay went hurry up for 1 drive, and even then it was just a handful of plays.  What about going to heavy shotgun... not counting on it. Our best hope may be OCKOC pushing for running an offense catered to his strengths, versus making him run Jays 2012 Bengals offense.  Its not just play calling, its formations and pace.

 

Jay deserves more credit for past work with QBs with Skins QBs and Dalton. From a laymen Perspective, Jay is getting killed by fans for not implementing some of the newer trends on offense (rightfully so in some respects), but his ability to adapt a version of the west coast offense to a QB is proven. 

 

 

 

 

[goskins10]

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The stats themselves aren't lies or anything but just taking one number without factoring in other variables can lead to a wrong, or at least incomplete, conclusion. When it comes to Haskins you have to take into account a few other factors when you're looking at something like his completion percentage. It was very high, but he also had an extremely low Average Depth of Target, especially when compared with the other draft-likely QBs in the 2019 class...IIRC it was something like 7.9, which is really low. Combine that with an offensive system that we know relied a ton on shallow crossers and mesh concepts, along with a stable full of 4.3 receivers, and it's not a stretch to say that his numbers may have been inflated to a degree. 

 

And yes, all QBs will struggle under tons of pressure. But Haskins played his single college season behind an elite OL and when he got even moderate pressure (especially up the middle...he was actually not bad against edge pressure) his play dipped pretty dramatically. Now that doesn't mean he can't or won't correct that. But it's true and you can see it when you watch his cutups. That being said, he did seem to get a bit better as the season went on so I'm hopeful. But that is one of the reasons I'm super wary about them throwing him to the wolves from day 1. No college QB has had to deal with NFL level pass rushes before, but Haskins more than most has had to deal with little pressure in general. NFL pass rushes, especially with a mediocre OL, could really screw with him and cause problems if he goes in before he's at least somewhat ready.

 

 

Full disclosure here - I did not want Haskins. I did not want any QB this last draft. But now that we have him, I am warming up to him. I have been watching more and more film of him. I see all the things others do in terms of footwork, pressure, how he operates outside the lines. But I have stated all this before. 

 

My response to the scouts was that I felt they appeared biased or at least exaggerated. And nothing you said is anything I have not said or that I disagreed with in their analysis outside of severity. Again, I think their analysis was exaggerated. 

 

In direct response to your comments: His air yards - the number you were looking for was - actually 10.3 yds not 7.9. His yds/att was 8th highest for 2019 at 9.1yds/att. I added both those numbers for the exact reason of pointing out he did not just throw a bunch of panicked under routes. Not saying this to be snide, but maybe you didn't read to the bottom? That's where I put the numbers. 

 

I keep seeing people say that he was behind an "elite" Oline. That is just not true. Per Football Outsiders - not perfect but at least some kind of consistent measure, here are the Ohio State Pass Blocking Rankings: 

 

Not exactly the stuff elite olines are made of. The only top 10 ranking they have is sacks on passing downs - which can be helped by a good QB who gets rid of the ball. So he was in fact behind a mediocre oline. 

 

Having said that, I have been advocating he sit for a season myself. If he is rushed out there it may not the best idea but I am actually warming up to that too. Let's find out. So he takes a few bumps. Gets a bit frustrated. That is going to happen sooner or later. Let's find out now if he has the capacity to get through it. From all I am reading about the guy and his work habits, his desire to do the best he can and his mental toughness makes me think more and more, WTF, give him a go. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I would also totally get letting Case start the season and play it out if he has some success. It would not hurt Haskins to sit. I am just not sure it would be as detrimental or as big a disaster as some are making it out to be if he started immediately. 

 

Last but not least, you get better by experience. If he is going to improve how he reacts to pressure up the middle, he needs more looks, more time playing time, not less. You don't learn that by sitting on a the bench. 

 

In the end I hope Jay plays the guy that best for the team. If tha'ts Case, go for it. If it's Haskins, go with him. What I do nto want is like what we had with Robert and have Haskins annointed the starter jsut becasue he is a 1st rd draft pick. He needs to earn it in training camp. 

 

 

[Llevron]

Someone show me what makes his oline elite. I'm not smart enough to know it myself, but I have read enough for me to doubt it now. 

[RandyHolt]

15 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I cannot agree with you....

 

All good points, but all point to the long standing way to groom an NFL quarterback. I get it, I really do, giving a kid a playbook to stare at for year, that has his head spinning, is actually best for him.  Hope the coach doesn't get fired, and his fat playbook shredded. The most important part, is that he doesn't play.  Ironic, but anyways.

 

My rebuttal will be brief - ha!  Doing things the old fashioned way has led to countless failed QBs. Has anyone ever compiled a list?

 

Yet many rookie QBs have done just fine since Carolina using Cam to his strengths, which seemed to open some OC's eyes. Even Kyle's.   RG3 who you say struggled, got us into the playoffs. IMHO injuries are what ruined him, or at least ruined a promising early side to his career. Weren't we up 10 or 14-0 vs Seattle and driving when he got injured?   We had an OC unafraid to cater to a rookie and we made the playoffs. Had he not been physically beaten, we could have slowly added WCO fully, whatever.

[redskinss]

There are lots of things I don't like about Gruden but his ability to get the most out of a quarterbacks skills, at least for me isn't one of them.

 

Dalton in cinci, cousins here and then even after the debacle here last year what Johnson was doing, I thought was incredibly impressive. 

To bring a guy in off the street mid season who's totally green to your system and have it even function at all much less show periods off success, I think most of that was on Gruden.

 

Just my opinion and I could be way off but I've always thought Gruden was excellent with quarterbacks and I wonder what he could do with a true blue chipper.

[RandyHolt]

12 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

What would you define as heavy shotgun?

 

Because last season we had 624 snaps from the gun and only 342 from under centre.

 

Thanks - I admit I didn't know it was so many.   But I wonder how many of those snaps were so called obvious passing downs where every coach in the league would be in gun.  I would toss those out. Or, did we cater to a guys strengths, say Alex or JJ?  I would be interested to see the full breakdown by down/distance and QB (not asking you to do it).

 

Heavy gun: when you want to show pass but run, or when starting a game or drives.  When your back runs best from said formation e.g. Perine in Pistol.  Or, when facing a front 7 that is rag dolling and abusing our OL. Keep the QB as far away from the LOS.

 

You seem to know the game well, is it more difficult to run the ball from gun/pistol?

[RandyHolt]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Jay deserves more credit for past work with QBs with Skins QBs and Dalton. From a laymen Perspective, Jay is getting killed by fans for not implementing some of the newer trends on offense (rightfully so in some respects), but his ability to adapt a version of the west coast offense to a QB is proven.

 

 

Jay has a good offensive mind and is a proven NFL coach. I think Andy and Kirk were in his wheelhouse, perfect QBs to develop for his playbook.  While I may sell short some of his accomplishments, I do admit his job is not easy.  Especially with Bruce likely dictating his lineup, telling him which plays to review 🤦‍♂️, forcing him to be the teams PR guy... I could go on.

 

I guess a question is: why does he feel committed to the WCO, and finding the need to adapt it? If he has to adapt it, maybe it would be wise to also consider other more radical approaches, vs subtle nuances; why limit himself to the WCO.  Like Kyle shocking the world and copying Nevada's ? Pistol read option, getting us into the playoffs. Is it frowned upon for an OC to do that sort of thing, because an old school NFL purist would never allow it?  Copying stuff from college coaches is smart IMO and I feel like the NFL's OC have collectively been slow to accept adapt.  All GMs ONLY target college QBs, right? It would sure seem short sighted to NOT take plays from a kids college playbook, to help his shiny new QB adapt. I think the record would show countless OCs got fired after failing to develop their new QB after forcing them to learn HIS playbook.

 

 

[evmiii]

I admit that I'm a dinosaur and not hip to all the "cuddly feely" stuff, but I just can't believe that you can possibly learn as much on the bench.  Play, learn and progress.  I fully understand that the coach and the GM want and probably need to win now, but if it's even close I trot him out on day one.  If he truly is not ready than let him sit until he is, but that needs to be sooner than later.  He most certainly will make some rookie mistakes, but the offense could certainly be more aggressive with him on the field.  I think we will be very run heavy regardless of the QB, let him learn under fire.  He doesn't lack confidence and he doesn't appear fragile, go get Mr Haskins.

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

You seem to know the game well, is it more difficult to run the ball from gun/pistol?

 

That's a REALLY good and complex question.

 

Conventional wisdom is that is harder to run out of gun. Or at least you are more limited in what you can run. The depth of the back is less, the timing on blocking is changed, by being one side of the formation gives the defense a read on what you can/cant run. You tend to see a lot more outside zone and 'stretch plays' and backs starting laterally rather than downhill.

 

There are some backs who just prefer to be lined up deep (AP for example!) and run downhill on gap or inside zone rather than laterally - and the better the back the more that might be, gives them a chance to use their superior vision and ability to set up blocks and make people miss compared to an average back. Pistol formation evolved as a hybrid of gun/under centre to try to address some of the perceived (or real) issues with gun.

 

There is data that shows that play action is more effective from under centre (though that gets more complex when you look at down and distance and position on the field etc).

 

BUT there is also data that shows that even when you adjust by down and distance etc running out of the gun is more successful overall than under centre. But THEN some of that depends on who you have at QB ....

 

So, short answer is it's not clear.

 

What is interesting is that with one single exception the top 10 most productive NFL offenses of last year were also the offenses which ran the LEAST percentage of shotgun. The exception was Kansas City and Mahomes might well be an exception in many ways by the time he has finished.

[Veryoldschool]

8 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

All good points, but all point to the long standing way to groom an NFL quarterback. I get it, I really do, giving a kid a playbook to stare at for year, that has his head spinning, is actually best for him.  Hope the coach doesn't get fired, and his fat playbook shredded. The most important part, is that he doesn't play.  Ironic, but anyways.

 

My rebuttal will be brief - ha!  Doing things the old fashioned way has led to countless failed QBs. Has anyone ever compiled a list?

 

Yet many rookie QBs have done just fine since Carolina using Cam to his strengths, which seemed to open some OC's eyes. Even Kyle's.   RG3 who you say struggled, got us into the playoffs. IMHO injuries are what ruined him, or at least ruined a promising early side to his career. Weren't we up 10 or 14-0 vs Seattle and driving when he got injured?   We had an OC unafraid to cater to a rookie and we made the playoffs. Had he not been physically beaten, we could have slowly added WCO fully, whatever.

 

Apparently, you want 2012 over again, not me I ALWAYS KNEW how it would end because i'd seen multiple running QBs get killed in the NFL before Griffin was born.  Thankfully, the Redskins do not want 2012 again either since they drafted a guy who played in the pocket in college and isn't fast enough to be a dual threat.  Judging by their pick they are actually hoping for 2015 again when a starter thrived running a real NFL offense because they drafted a guy physically suited for that role.  Cousins ran a pro-style offense for three years in college so even in limited play as a rookie it was evident he understood what he was supposed to do but Haskins doesn't come in with that level of preparation.  

 

 

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

In direct response to your comments: His air yards - the number you were looking for was - actually 10.3 yds not 7.9. His yds/att was 8th highest for 2019 at 9.1yds/att. I added both those numbers for the exact reason of pointing out he did not just throw a bunch of panicked under routes. Not saying this to be snide, but maybe you didn't read to the bottom? That's where I put the numbers. 

 

 

I've actually found two separate numbers for his Average Depth of Target. One is 7.9 and one is 9.7. But I think 7.9 was actually about halfway through the 2018 season and 9.7 was at the end of the season. That in itself is nice because it shows tangible progress. But 9.7 is still pretty low and was 37th among FBS QBs. 

 

The 10.3 number you cited seems to be his Adjusted YPA which isn't the same and factors in different things like TDs. 

[JoggingGod]

aDOT rankings are heavily misleading. A lot of the top QBs in that stat are playing against zero coverage and running triple options and stuff. 9.7 considering he’s playing against Big 10 competition and is constantly playing from under center is very good.

[goskins10]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I've actually found two separate numbers for his Average Depth of Target. One is 7.9 and one is 9.7. But I think 7.9 was actually about halfway through the 2018 season and 9.7 was at the end of the season. That in itself is nice because it shows tangible progress. But 9.7 is still pretty low and was 37th among FBS QBs. 

 

The 10.3 number you cited seems to be his Adjusted YPA which isn't the same and factors in different things like TDs. 

 

Fair enough, I did not look closely enough and the 10.3 is the Adj yds/att.

 

However, his tds/att was 9.06. but good for 8th not 37th. Not sure where you are getting 37th. My data is below and comes from: https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/908

 

I could not find his air yards. If you have a source please send it to me. 

 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Apparently, you want 2012 over again, not me I ALWAYS KNEW how it would end because i'd seen multiple running QBs get killed in the NFL before Griffin was born.  Thankfully, the Redskins do not want 2012 again either since they drafted a guy who played in the pocket in college and isn't fast enough to be a dual threat.  Judging by their pick they are actually hoping for 2015 again when a starter thrived running a real NFL offense because they drafted a guy physically suited for that role.  Cousins ran a pro-style offense for three years in college so even in limited play as a rookie it was evident he understood what he was supposed to do but Haskins doesn't come in with the level of preparation.  

 

 

 

My point about RG3 was NOT about proposing running Haskins, in Case I was unclear. It was to point out an OC can find ways to use a rookie QB. I think you are speculating at best that using Haskins will result in an RG3 grade awkward physical trainwreck.

 

The Skins should have consulted with you. I had no idea Robert had no ability to slide.  Talk about awkward yikes.  I am not sure anyone knew how poor he would be at protecting himself.  But the Ngata injury, was all about Ngata being a ****ing freak of nature tank catching 3 so far downfield like that.  Seattle, hadn't he run out of bounds half assed.... and Mike not taking him out, and then our spray painted dirt.  What a ****ed up game that was. And that fumble $*$&(*%&  FESL TM

 

I don't think Haskins is going to be featured running like Robert was.  It wasn't running the ball per se that made Robert get injured, it was he had no ability to protect himself, nor did he really have the body for it.  All QBs get hit - all players get hit.  If we made him sit a year he still wouldn't have learned to slide, we wouldn't even have learned that he cannot slide, body type unchanged.... and we would have never had made the playoffs. So, there is a trade off there. You have to count a playoff appearance, as something of value. Dammit a minute before he got injured I thought we would win.
 

Catering can be about purging all the plays he doesn't need to know, and add some that he is very familiar with. Keeping everything simple and in the QBs comfort zone.  Now while a simple offense may be easy for a defense to snuff out, what is the goal. At worst we go 2-14 and get the overall #1.  But Jay is playing for his next contract, with an eye to develop Haskins into stardom. Jay going all in with Case and his full playbook and our soon to be patchwork OL is likely to end in disaster or lets be real 7-9. No matter what, the focus will be on Dwayne for if Case does well, he is bolting for his big payday.

 

A problem I have in never testing Dwayne, is that we will not address QB in a deep QB draft. Yes he's raw, but waiting to only test him AFTER a QB rich draft, just seems... short sighted.

 

 

[RandyHolt]

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

That's a REALLY good and complex question.

 

....

So, short answer is it's not clear.

 

What is interesting is that with one single exception the top 10 most productive NFL offenses of last year were also the offenses which ran the LEAST percentage of shotgun. The exception was Kansas City and Mahomes might well be an exception in many ways by the time he has finished.

 

Great reply - post of the day vote.

 

I will add one thing from my personal belief, being in gun plants the seed to the defense that the intention is to pass. OH **** they are running, may be a thing to catch Mike taking a step back at the snap. Football seems to be very much a mental chess match, as much as physical.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Fair enough, I did not look closely enough and the 10.3 is the Adj yds/att.

 

However, his tds/att was 9.06. but good for 8th not 37th. Not sure where you are getting 37th. My data is below and comes from: https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/908

 

I could not find his air yards. If you have a source please send it to me. 

 

 

 

 

I found the 9.7 mentioned in a couple of places as a PFF sourced number. The only actual thing I could find directly from PFF (since I don't have a subscription to their site) is a tweet...but that says 7.9 and is from Oct of 2018, so it sounds like it went up as the year went on. 

 

 

 

This CBS draft profile from April of this year has the 9.7 number (and the 37th FBS ranking) and says it is a PFF number but there's no direct link in the article...though I kind of doubt that Wilson just made it up.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/dwayne-haskins-nfl-draft-profile-everything-to-know-about-team-fits-strengths-and-more/

 

Weaknesses: Only has one year of experience and probably isn't ready to start immediately at the NFL level. He also played out of the shotgun at Ohio State, and while that isn't disqualifying, some NFL teams -- like, say, the Broncos -- want their quarterbacks to be able to play under center too.

Haskins also wasn't asked to throw many deep passes -- he ranked 37th among all FBS quarterbacks in average depth of target (9.7 yards), according to PFF -- and he needs to become more consistent with his footwork, which should come with experience.

[Veryoldschool]

4 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

My point about RG3 was NOT about proposing running Haskins, in Case I was unclear. It was to point out an OC can find ways to use a rookie QB. I think you are speculating at best that using Haskins will result in an RG3 grade awkward physical trainwreck.

 

The Skins should have consulted with you. I had no idea Robert had no ability to slide.  Talk about awkward yikes.  I am not sure anyone knew how poor he would be at protecting himself.  But the Ngata injury, was all about Ngata being a ****ing freak of nature tank catching 3 so far downfield like that.  Seattle, hadn't he run out of bounds half assed.... and Mike not taking him out, and then our spray painted dirt.  What a ****ed up game that was. And that fumble $*$&(*%&  FESL TM

 

I don't think Haskins is going to be featured running like Robert was.  It wasn't running the ball per se that made Robert get injured, it was he had no ability to protect himself, nor did he really have the body for it.  All QBs get hit - all players get hit.  If we made him sit a year he still wouldn't have learned to slide, we wouldn't even have learned that he cannot slide, body type unchanged.... and we would have never had made the playoffs. So, there is a trade off there. You have to count a playoff appearance, as something of value. Dammit a minute before he got injured I thought we would win.
 

Catering can be about purging all the plays he doesn't need to know, and add some that he is very familiar with. Keeping everything simple and in the QBs comfort zone.  Now while a simple offense may be easy for a defense to snuff out, what is the goal. At worst we go 2-14 and get the overall #1.  But Jay is playing for his next contract, with an eye to develop Haskins into stardom. Jay going all in with Case and his full playbook and our soon to be patchwork OL is likely to end in disaster or lets be real 7-9. No matter what, the focus will be on Dwayne for if Case does well, he is bolting for his big payday.

 

A problem I have in never testing Dwayne, is that we will not address QB in a deep QB draft. Yes he's raw, but waiting to only test him AFTER a QB rich draft, just seems... short sighted.

 

 

 

So you want to commit to Haskins, I believe you used that phrase commit to Haskins, by playing Haskins right away with a reduced package so we can find out right away whether Haskins is going to workout in 2019 so if the early returns are not good we can bail on him and draft another one in 2020?  Yikes!

 

 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Great reply - post of the day vote.

 

I will add one thing from my personal belief, being in gun plants the seed to the defense that the intention is to pass. OH **** they are running, may be a thing to catch Mike taking a step back at the snap. Football seems to be very much a mental chess match, as much as physical.

 

But with the amount of snaps from gun in the NFL (it’s circa 70% overall and under Chip Kelly the 49ers were 99% one year) it’s not really a surprise formation. It’s pretty much ‘base offense now’ in the same way (and directly related) that nickel is the base NFL defense.

[RandyHolt]

3 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

So you want to commit to Haskins, I believe you used that phrase commit to Haskins, by playing Haskins right away with a reduced package so we can find out right away whether Haskins is going to workout in 2019 so if the early returns are not good we can bail on him and draft another one in 2020?  Yikes!

Let's see if anyone is laughing at Arizona in January, for things playing out as they did. Did they get 2 picks for Rosen? Or was it just the 2nd rounder. And of course, Kyler Murray.  Nice prize to mitigate the risk of failure. What's his name, Justin Herbert?  Or Tua of course.

 

The thing i think the sit em staff ALL overlook. It's ok to yank his ass if he shows he is not able to handle the heat. It really is. Players get benched across all sports and survive just fine. Getting benched isn't all that far away from never playing, in the demoralization scale. I bet many athletes would say never playing is worse.  At least one gives no doubt front line experience on what needs work.  No one expects him to play all year and dominate. No one, not even him.

 

So lets say we sit him. Next year, new coach, overwhelmed in a new offense facing the same struggles cough inexperience... do you just blindly play him because he sat a year? Or, sit ANOTHER year, or wait until "week 4", panic trade, or ?  Meanwhile watching other teams drafting QBs, while we are afraid to play our own, or somehow unable to find a way to use him to his strengths.

 

There is no guarantee our next coach will like Haskins. Arizona didn't want Rosen. Jay didn't want 3 IIRC.  Jay in limbo is a BIG factor in his development.  Jay wants to win and that points to Case near term. I fear a bad crash and burn, because, us. Trent. WR..1.   I can't be the only one that thinks signs point to Jay not being here in 20.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Veryoldschool]

12 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Let's see if anyone is laughing at Arizona in January, for things playing out as they did. Did they get 2 picks for Rosen? Or was it just the 2nd rounder. And of course, Kyler Murray.  Nice prize to mitigate the risk of failure. What's his name, Justin Herbert?  Or Tua of course.

 

The thing i think the sit em staff ALL overlook. It's ok to yank his ass if he shows he is not able to handle the heat. It really is. Players get benched across all sports and survive just fine. Getting benched isn't all that far away from never playing, in the demoralization scale. I bet many athletes would say never playing is worse.  At least one gives no doubt front line experience on what needs work.  No one expects him to play all year and dominate. No one, not even him.

 

So lets say we sit him. Next year, new coach, overwhelmed in a new offense facing the same struggles cough inexperience... do you just blindly play him because he sat a year? Or, sit ANOTHER year, or wait until "week 4", panic trade, or ?  Meanwhile watching other teams drafting QBs, while we are afraid to play our own, or somehow unable to find a way to use him to his strengths.

 

There is no guarantee our next coach will like Haskins. Arizona didn't want Rosen. Jay didn't want 3 IIRC.  Jay in limbo is a BIG factor in his development.  Jay wants to win and that points to Case near term. I fear a bad crash and burn, because, us. Trent. WR..1.   I can't be the only one that thinks signs point to Jay not being here in 20.

 

Do actually think  the reason Griffin was passed by in DC was Jay didn't like him?  I suppose they didn't like Griffin in Cleveland and the rest of the league just didn't like Griffin so he sat home until Baltimore liked him as a backup but since Baltimore drafted the kid from Penn State maybe Griffin is going to be looking for another stop this summer.

 

I think your rush on the field and draft a new guy if he isn't lightening in a bottle coming out of the blocks approach is crazy and I hope the Skins have more sense.