Skinsinparadise Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, Califan007 said: If no teams were offering anything higher than a 4th for Trent, leaking that a team is now offering a 1st won't make any teams start offering a 1st as well to the Skins...it would make them stop offering anything to the Skins. Keim basically in a twitter exchange with someone was suggesting that if a team offered a 4th that would elicit a serious conversation at least because it would be closer to what the Redskins want. In some of his podcasts he's vacillated between the Redskins being willing to accept a third rounder or multiple picks with 2nd round value. And they'd be willing to hold out including to after the draft to get that value. In Keim's defense his point hasn't been vindicated or defeated. And its not really his opinion it's just what he's heard. Trade offers can change over time. Will see. Months ago, I was saying if it were me it would be 2nd rounder or bust and I'd bring back Trent if they can't get. Now, I'd love to see Trent gone and if lets say a third is all they can get, I'd take it. The Redskins making some noise that they have some bidders makes sense. It's good business for them to get that out. But I am not going to get giddy about a 2nd rounder or higher is coming just because some national guys are saying that's what they should get. The Redskins should get a first rounder narrative from some national talking heads isn't a novel narrative. It's been part of the narrative the whole time. But if you follow the Browns, Jets, Vikings, Redskins reports -- its been consistent that no one has offered a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskindan07 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 With Josina Anderson reporting that teams are putting deals together for TW, makes me think that it is either Minnesota, Cleveland, or San Francisco as those are the teams that she is covering for this years draft along with the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Just now, carex said: it makes sense for his value to slip for the simple fact that when it comes to NFL trades there's already so much reluctance, so much fear of something going wrong. I bet that if a person with no NFL connections listened to trade discussions over a week they'd walk away thinking everyone involved needed to be medicated This doesn't make sense to me. I go mostly by my own life experience. I've negotiated professionally at some pretty high levels for a few years now in finance and media. You make all sorts of calls, talk thru different scenarios. We hear 10% of the chatter, most of which is purely speculative, getting a feel for people's needs and priorities, market values, etc. But fundamentally, if you have an impact player at a very valuable position with teams who have needs, you shouldn't be walking away with peanuts. It just doesn't make sense. People were anchoring to the 5th round comp pick, but so what? That goes out the window when you have multiple bidders. Everyone knows deadlines make deals. The draft is a forcing function to get something done (one of a few forcing functions in the league year calendar). It was utterly predictable that teams would try to lowball to see if we folded and then heated up offers around the draft. I've been in negotiations where our offer is nowhere near what we're willing to pay because we're playing a game of perceived leverage. So yes, offers can go from a Day 3 pick to considerably more than that in a hurry based on the buyer universe and how other events unfold. Even Trent's contract demands are not as prohibitive as people make them out to be. Think about it. If we ship him off, is he going to play hardball with another team without knowing how his body will hold up this year? He's obviously not going to sit out again and forego even more money. We hold the cards and we always did. I don't know what he'll go for. Maybe a 1st is still ridiculous and the ultimate price is less. But I really, really doubt it'll just be a 4th or a 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I could be wrong, but it seems like the longer this deal takes to get done, the less our compensation will be. And then throw in the fact that the Redskins almost always lose out in trades, no matter who is in charge, and I am not getting my hopes up for anything decent in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, redskindan07 said: With Josina Anderson reporting that teams are putting deals together for TW, makes me think that it is either Minnesota, Cleveland, or San Francisco as those are the teams that she is covering for this years draft along with the Skins. I know SF has talked about trading their two first rounders to get more capital, I wonder if they’re looking at something like Trent and our third for #31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 We want a run on tackles early. Wonder who the target is Thomas, Wirfs, Wills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: I could be wrong, but it seems like the longer this deal takes to get done, the less our compensation will be. And then throw in the fact that the Redskins almost always lose out in trades, no matter who is in charge, and I am not getting my hopes up for anything decent in return. I think what makes this situation different is the fact that this is a draft that is really top heavy in fantastic lineman before there's a pretty steep drop, and teams are locked in on particular guys in addition to seeing a clear tier with Wirfs, Wills, Thomas, and Becton and w/Becton being slightly crazy w/the weird red flag from the combine test (which is particularly damaging because it sounds like he was the #1 or #2 OT on a lot of boards in terms of ceiling). Now you have rumors of the Dolphins wanting to move up to lock in an OL, and you have panic from the Browns and Jets at the idea that 1 more OL than expected to go inside the top 9-10 picks, and you have the Bucs clearly going all in for two years and wanting to give Brady a better OL. This puts significant pressure to me on Cleveland, NYJ and Tampa, because if Miami does indeed go against expectation and grab an OL early, then they are unlikely to get their guy, or a tier 1 OL potentially at all. So what's the backup plan? Trade down, or just trade fro an All Pro caliber vet? To me it doesn't make sense for NYJ because they're a mess, and not a win now team. Tampa is a clear win now team, and Cleveland, despite an awful '19 season, is probably some OL talent away from being a top 10-15 team. That puts tremendous pressure on Tampa and Cleveland to come away with either one of the 1st round caliber OL's in this draft, or trade for one in Silverback. If their big four is gone (definite for Tampa, possible for Cleveland) do you want to roll the dice with the next tier of guys: Ezra, Austin Jackson, Josh Jones etc or do you just want to grab a legit stud who should be able to give another 2-3 years of pro bowl caliber play, maybe four if you're lucky (OL's have been playing well longer than usual in recent years). I think all of this adds up to added value for the pick. I'm hugely, hugely skeptical of the idea of us getting a 1st rounder, but it is, absolutely what we should get. It's just we've been over a barrel since idiot Allen drove the Silverback Trade compensation off the side of a cliff last summer/fall, and w/a new administration in place, teams were keying on the fact that w/an outstanding top end to the OL class, the fact that they'll have to extend him, and no chance for Silverback to come back to Washington, they could get away w/a huge discount on him. Now it appears we've got at least some more leverage than a few days ago. Best to take care of it. I'd try to get OJ Howard and a 2nd for Silverback and say a sixth something like that. W/our QB situation likely to be at best, below average (a scrub from Carolina and an unproven rookie equals a bad situation, at least for now) it wouldn't be hard to get an extension done w/Howard for far cheaper than one might have expected say two years ago. He's not managed to breakout thus far (26, 34, 34 catch seasons), and as such, we can just pick up his rookie option and give him an extension based on him being say, no better than the 15th-20th best TE in the league, rather than the top 5-10 TE he probably expected to be when his second contract came due. If we had a legit QB, I'd be worried they'd pump up Howard, but w/our QB situation the way it is, even if Howard is the stud most of us expected, he's in a situation that's unlikely to produce such #'s until at least '21 at the earliest if not later. Anyway, very excited at the idea of getting a trade done for more than a third or fourth. Praying this is true. Fearing it's just bull----. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberob Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: @Timberob why did you repost my post from a month ago about what Halsell said back then, don't see the relevance to today? Is it about the post below? If so, I don't think we got any idea yet whether they get a first rounder or high pick for him, yet. So Halsell could end up right or wrong. I'd love for him to be wrong. but we got no idea. Truthfully, I made a mistake. I apologize as it had no relevance and I am not sure how I did it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: We want a run on tackles early. Wonder who the target is Thomas, Wirfs, Wills? I shot this notion down yesterday but seems to be some substance to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Dolphins moving up to draft a T They really need a QB. They must think either Tua/Herbert will be there after #5, or their planning to use their other two rd.1's to move back up and get a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: We want a run on tackles early. Wonder who the target is Thomas, Wirfs, Wills? Even better, the Giants are now less likely to get their guy, then again, Gettleman's an idiot, so his "guy" is probably the future bust of the big four, so I don't know what to think lol. 15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: We want a run on tackles early. Wonder who the target is Thomas, Wirfs, Wills? The giants always seem like a team that would go Thomas, but I've sensed that Wirfs, Wills and Becton are considered the potential future studs, with Thomas more the safer route? Have no idea personally. Haven't looked into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said: They really need a QB. They must think either Tua/Herbert will be there after #5, or their planning to use their other two rd.1's to move back up and get a QB. It's lyin season. My money is on Miami staying at 5 and taking tua. All these reports about them liking Herbert more and trying to trade up to get a T I think are smokescreens for their true desire: grab tua at 5 and still have a lot of quality picks to fill needs around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I doubt its a 4th or 5th pick in the end either. But to defend Keim (lol, I feel like his publicist 😀) he never said that a 4th or 5th is the deal they are stuck with, he said that's what they have been offered thus far. When he actually speculates on it, he thinks they end up with a third rounder or at best a 2nd round value but without a 2nd round pick in the mix. Will see. Many of us (including me) do plenty of negotiating in our businesses in some fashion or form. I think we all agree that deadlines makes deals and the first offer isn't the best. But I'd add that it helps for the Redskins to jack up the buzz before the draft. That doesn't make it true. It could be that teams have upped their offers or it might not be. But it behooves the Redskins from a negotiation stance to throw it out there that people are killing for Trent. On the same token, this optimism (which I'd love to be true) about how the Redskins will now get big value for Trent isn't new. I've listed all of the speculation I've heard about it for months, positive and negative. The positive included some thinking they'd not only get a first but a first and change. the negative has been pretty much the last month or so starting when Trent's agent hinted that the Redskins haven't gotten a serious offer yet and that's when Keim quietly leaked they haven't even gotten a 4th rounder offered yet at least not back then. And then Pauline said the same. Will see. Nothing would please me more than the Redskins getting a 2nd rounder at this time but man if they actually got a first I'd be on cloud nine. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Consigliere said: Even better, the Giants are now less likely to get their guy, then again, Gettleman's an idiot, so his "guy" is probably the future bust of the big four, so I don't know what to think lol. Actually I want the Giants to get Wirfs and skip Simmons. Not sure if the NY media is right but they seem to believe they will take Wirfs and their back up is Simmons. Will see soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Just now, Skinsinparadise said: Actually I want the Giants to get Wirfs and skip Simmons. Not sure if the NY media is right but they seem to believe they will take Wirfs and their back up is Simmons. Will see soon enough. I know gettleman loves fat guys and the need at OT is clear for them, but if they pass on Simmons I will be elated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: . But it behooves the Redskins from a negotiation stance to throw it out there that people are killing for Trent. Wasn't really thinking about it before, but the opposite could have been true also. It could be that for months now the Redskins have said nothing while other NFL teams have been whispering to the media about how low Trent's value was to try to get the 'skins to feel pressure to bite. Heck, it could have even been his agent, thinking that if he kept getting the media to tell the 'skins every day they wait Trent's value was getting worse the Redskins would panic and act. Who knows what his real "value" is? I suspect the Redskins have played it smart this year by not biting on any offers until now though lord knows they should have grabbed what they could last year, but in any case, I suspect interested parties have been trying to deflate Williams' value as hard as they could for months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinky Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 hours ago, jsharrin55 said: Tomorrow is my birthday. Happy birthday dude! and it's my birthday today also... give me some draft gifts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobert Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I have a really good feeling we are going to be very happy when this deal gets done. Too much smoke about a higher return than we have expected in the past 24. Fingers Crossed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Burgold said: Wasn't really thinking about it before, but the opposite could have been true also. It could be that for months now the Redskins have said nothing while other NFL teams have been whispering to the media about how low Trent's value was to try to get the 'skins to feel pressure to bite. But if so it would have to be actually true considering the Redskins obviously know what's being offered. IMO its really on the Redskins -- the team trying to drive up the bid that's supposed to jack up the demand as for buzz. In retrospect, Trent's agent somewhat indirectly revealed that there wasn't a big offer on the table. Then just about every beat guy echoed that they haven't been offered much for Trent. And Tony Pauline echoed that. 20 minutes ago, Burgold said: Who knows what his real "value" is? I suspect the Redskins have played it smart this year by not biting on any offers until now though lord knows they should have grabbed what they could last year, but in any case, I suspect interested parties have been trying to deflate Williams' value as hard as they could for months now. The key I would gather to get a lower price for Trent is to hope you are the only bidder. For example, no way we'd pay what we did for RG3 if Cleveland wasn't bidding high. And I agree we have no way to know on Trent's value. I got an opinion on it. But its just an opinion. We have no way to know how other teams value Trent. We can only guess. I can argue it hard either way, and I actually have at different points of this argued on both sides of the equation of Trent's value. The Positive He's a polished LT, he's one of the best in the game. A veteran you can count on Probably play for the next 3-5 years. The Negative He's 32, hasn't played in a year, he's been banged up, multiple surgeries His contract demands coinciding with the uncertainty about him You can get cheaper, much healthier alternatives in arguably a stacked draft for LT. As for leverage now versus 2019 In 2019, if a team needed a LT there was no other option. It was Trent or bust His contract wasn't as big of a deal because he was under contract for 2 years still Teams were in contention and were looking to win now. I do buy the reports that some teams were willing to offer a first for Trent last year. The two dissenting reporters on that said they know they were offered a 2nd. Will see how it unfolds hopefully today or tomorrow. Definitely part of it will be luck. What happens in the draft and how desperate or not teams become if the draft doesn't go their way. Personally I am a big fan of this draft at LT. I don't just like the top 4 but I also like 4 other tackles after them that I believe could end up good. I am still sticking with Minnesota as the likely best spot because they pick later in the draft and I think need to use their first rounder on a CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actorguy1 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I guess 29 more teams left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 OK, lol, maybe I am off about the Vikings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I'm a little disappointed in Mark Bullock going with what JLC is saying. Bullock should be doing his job by looking into things himself rather than going with JLC or any other media types. Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: We want a run on tackles early. Wonder who the target is Thomas, Wirfs, Wills? Tweet: The Dolphins want to get ahead of the Giants, not for Tua, but for the best tackle. That's real. This also makes me more intrigued by the possibility of moving down with Miami. If they and NY are determined to take Ts, it means Simmons will be there at 5. Along with the possibility of a bidding war for pick 5 for Herbert, Tua, maybe teams getting desperate for one of the two remaining Ts, Atlanta wanting to go up for Okudah, etc. Would still take a good offer from Miami, but if I know they want a T, I might not need to be as blown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, KillBill26 said: I know gettleman loves fat guys and the need at OT is clear for them, but if they pass on Simmons I will be elated. I thought I read he's never drafted an OT in the first round? Which doesn't mean there can't be a first time of course. 2 minutes ago, RWJ said: I'm a little disappointed in Mark Bullock going with what JLC is saying. Bullock should be doing his job by looking into things himself rather than going with JLC or any other media types. Wow! Mark is an X's and O's guy who breaks down plays. He lives in England. You and I are as plugged into what's happening as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 The bull**** river is flowing at max capacity now!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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