!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't know that.  Supposedly they'd be happy with any of the top 4 LTs but question is do any of them fall to their pick?  They supposedly love Ezra Cleveland who in theory you can get later in the first.  But it's all speculation.    

And that may he what they’re waiting for as well. They may not make a move for Trent until the second if Ezra isn’t there. I think a lot of interested teams are in a holding pattern to see who falls. That’s why I don’t think we get a first. 

[nonniey]

42 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

We need to stay away from Andy Reid.  By the time he is done with us, the deal will be TW and our 3rd for Chad Henne.

Bruce is gone.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

And that may he what they’re waiting for as well. They may not make a move for Trent until the second if Ezra isn’t there. I think a lot of interested teams are in a holding pattern to see who falls. That’s why I don’t think we get a first. 

 

Probably.  The main speculation for weeks is something like that which is the draft unfolds and some team is out of luck.  Specifically to the Browns, we'd want all these rumors of teams trading up into the top 10, top 5 to take tackles end up true. Wills, Wirfs, Thomas, Becton gone.   Then Ezra Cleveland goes earlier than expected in the first.  We also got to hope they don't like A. Jackson and J. Jones otherwise we'd want them to go to in the first. 

[actorguy1]

 

 

[carex]

for anyone figuring if the Skins don't trade him at best they get a fifth, they can franchise him

[rhyno]

34 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Without disclosing who the source is, can you say how you know this is Dan's source? Have you just heard something similar from them or have you confirmed one way or the other that this individual is indeed the one feeding info to Dan?

I overheard the conversation with someone very close to source. The source hung up because Dan was on the other line. Again, I'm not sure how connected this source is to the organization and I'm assuming not very.. 

[PartyPosse]

Hell no on franchising him. 
 

Also, my biggest worry is a team like TB drafting an LT and trading Donovan Smith to another LT hungry team for a 5th and that’s two teams right off the bat not interested. I’m hoping all the Tackle-starved teams don’t just deal among themselves.

[BleedBNG]

The Dan Patrick rumor is ridiculous. Why would a team give up a 1st rounder when a 2nd rounder will get it done?

[Rufus T Firefly]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hard to tell.  Because some in the NY media purport that Wirfs is their target and Simmons is their other consideration.  I don't know if they'd go to their backup plan at LT versus Simmons in that case.   IMO it's a good draft for LT so if you miss out on one, you can maybe get Cleveland, J. Jones, A. Jackson, Niang further down in the first (trade up) or early 2nd maybe.  

 

For me I am not in love with the idea of trading down unless they get a kings ransom deal and I suspect based at least on what some are saying, a king ransom deal isn't coming.  But will see.  All these mysteries is part of what makes draft day a blast.  Almost always you got some surprises. 

A lot of variables, obviously. And it clearly depends on Miami's offer (if there is one).

 

But suppose, as a hypothetical, that they're willing to give up a 2 and a 5, plus next year's 1, I don't know that I consider that a "king's ransom" deal. It seems more like a realistic one. But personally, I take it, with the best case being I get Simmons, a 1,2 and 5, with at least a chance that the 1 is a high one, and the worse case is I take the second best T or auction that pick with the Ts, QBs or Okudah there. I'd probably have some preliminary discussions with Atlanta if they're really desperate like it kind of sounds. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

I don't know. Wonder what he'd want for Mahomes ...

 

59 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

We are about 10-12 years too early though.

 

You're close. It would be the rights to the now-retired Pat Mahomes Sr, his Dad.

He's still only 49 years old, about the same age we got McNabb and Smith in the trades.

So it'll be a little like the retired-Gronk trade.

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

The Dan Patrick rumor is ridiculous. Why would a team give up a 1st rounder when a 2nd rounder will get it done?

Never count out the desperation of a GM on the hot seat.

 

A team to watch out for is the Vikings. They need OL BAD and they're in win now mode with a veteran roster. They also have two late-ish 1st rounders. If there is a run on OL and the good ones all get snatched up early, they might call and make us an offer. I doubt we get a 1st straight up but maybe something like Williams and our 3rd for one of their 1sts(the later one).

 

Basically if you're a Skins fan, you should root for as many OL as possible to be taken early to force a GM into trading with us out of a bad position.

[nonniey]

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

A lot of variables, obviously. And it clearly depends on Miami's offer (if there is one).

 

But suppose, as a hypothetical, that they're willing to give up a 2 and a 5, plus next year's 1, I don't know that I consider that a "king's ransom" deal. It seems more like a realistic one. But personally, I take it, with the best case being I get Simmons, a 1,2 and 5, with at least a chance that the 1 is a high one, and the worse case is I take the second best T or auction that pick with the Ts, QBs or Okudah there. I'd probably have some preliminary discussions with Atlanta if they're really desperate like it kind of sounds. 

Nope that would be a bad offer given the decreased value of 2021 picks over the norm. Redskins should work under two assumptions there won't be college football this year but there will be an NFL season (of some kind). That decreases significantly the value of 2021 picks as they will be a total crap shoot.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim tweet: And during the draft if a move is made, there's not much time to get TW approval. So if a team offers a high pick regardless of the contract situation, he's gone. Feeling, too, is hard to demand a trade then get picky.

 

Exactly what I've been saying.  he doesn't have the cards to play hardball with his new team if we deal him. Wherever he goes, he goes.

[kingdaddy]

43 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

All posturing, my friend. No one wants to give up more than they have to. These things unfold in their own time. Things go slow, then very quick!

One thing I keep going back to is how much people just accept the fact that because Trent is demanding a trade, and because we gave him permission to find a trade, means we are just gonna accept whatever we can get for him and then look around in our own camp and wonder who's gonna be OUR OWN left tackle? There is something to be said for calling Trent out and making him play here, especially if we can't find an adequate replacement or equal value for him. If we deal Trent and he goes out and makes a pro bowl and we have a borderline 4th round pick for him what does that say about our franchise? We have the leverage and at some point someone is gonna give us decently fair value or he's gonna play here....otherwise he can retire. This team is gonna be an awesome place to play under RR....he will realize that at some point and he'll realize either he wants to play and resume his potential hall of fame career or he won't. I love what RR and company are doing with Trent.

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Nope that would be a bad offer given the decreased value of 2021 picks over the norm. Redskins should work under two assumptions there won't be college football this year but there will be an NFL season (of some kind). That decreases significantly the value of 2021 picks as they will be a total crap shoot.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about what the technical value says by the value chart if I can get that kind of value, including the extra dice roll of next year's pick being high, plus Simmons. You're free to differ, but ti'd be worth it to me.

 

And things are going to have to be really off the charts bad for there to be no college season of any kind in 2020. 

[dyst]

Love how in the year Trent is available, happens to be a year with a deep LT draft class.

 

Even better is us having the #2 overall pick, in a weak QB draft class with teams not fighting to trade up.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Exactly what I've been saying.  he doesn't have the cards to play hardball with his new team if we deal him. Wherever he goes, he goes.

 

He could just finish his contract and then become a FA ala Clowney.  There is no requirement for a deal in advance.  However, I always saw the leverage issue on the contract topic more about the team acquiring Trent as opposed to Trent's desires.  Would a team acquiring Trent also be cool with potentially losing him in FA a year later?  If they don't care about that, then no big deal.    If they do care about both giving up trade capital and potentially losing him a year later, then it would make the deal more contingent on them being on the same page with Trent contractually.

 

I see no way we can guess with certainty how many teams should desire Trent and what they will be willing to pay or not or know how they see plan A or B, etc.    Every team is its own animal and would have their own perspective.  If it were me, I'd be weighing heavily Trent versus Plan B.  And I'd have a plan B.  The reason why I among many others do believe that their leverage isn't as good now as it was during the 2019 season is teams have more Plan B options right in front of them that they didn't have during the 2019 season.   

 

The idea and hope with some is if the Plan B options go away for the team/teams interested in Trent in the process of the draft -- that will help.  It seems like the Browns might be the main team interested.  So in my view, we should hope they miss out on their targets or decide they want to draft another player in the first or 2nd.   And if there are other teams, ditto.  

22 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

A

But suppose, as a hypothetical, that they're willing to give up a 2 and a 5, plus next year's 1, I don't know that I consider that a "king's ransom" deal. It seems more like a realistic one. But personally, I take it, with the best case being I get Simmons, a 1,2 and 5, with at least a chance that the 1 is a high one, and the worse case is I take the second best T or auction that pick with the Ts, QBs or Okudah there. I'd probably have some preliminary discussions with Atlanta if they're really desperate like it kind of sounds. 

 

I agree that's not a Kings Ransom deal.   To each their own on that one.  For me that offer would be a slam dunk no, and i wouldn't even have a sliver of cognitive dissonance about it. 😀

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He could just finish his contract and then become a FA ala Clowney.  There is no requirement for a deal in advance.  However, I always saw the leverage issue on the contract topic more about the team acquiring Trent as opposed to Trent's desires.  Would a team acquiring Trent also be cool with potentially losing him in FA a year later?  If they don't care about that, then no big deal.    If they do care about both giving up trade capital and potentially losing him a year later, then it would make the deal more contingent on them being on the same page with Trent contractually.

 

I see this on the flip side as well though. Whatever team trades for him will offer him a fair extension. At that point if you're Trent, do you really turn down a long-term extension after giving up a whole year's worth pay and not know how your body will hold up this upcoming season given your age and time away? It's risky for the team, sure, but I think it's riskier for Trent. Besides, teams have tag options to play with anyway. Trent isn't really in a position to play hardball with the Skins AND the team we trade him to.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Keim basically in a twitter exchange with someone was suggesting that if a team offered a 4th that would elicit a serious conversation at least because it would be closer to what the Redskins want.  In some of his podcasts he's vacillated between the Redskins being willing to accept a third rounder or multiple picks with 2nd round value.    And they'd be willing to hold out including to after the draft to get that value.

 

In Keim's defense his point hasn't been vindicated or defeated.  And its not really his opinion it's just what he's heard.  Trade offers can change over time.  Will see.  Months ago, I was saying if it were me it would be 2nd rounder or bust and I'd bring back Trent if they can't get.  Now, I'd love to see Trent gone and if lets say a third is all they can get, I'd take it.

 

The Redskins making some noise that they have some bidders makes sense.  It's good business for them to get that out.   But I am not going to get giddy about a 2nd rounder or higher is coming just because some national guys are saying that's what they should get.  The Redskins should get a first rounder narrative from some national talking heads isn't a novel narrative.  It's been part of the narrative the whole time.  But if you follow the Browns, Jets, Vikings, Redskins reports -- its been consistent that no one has offered a 2nd. 

 

 

 

My point wasn't about the validity of the beat writers' reports...it was about the logic behind the Skins leaking a story that someone is now offering them a 1st round pick for Trent in order to get those other teams that were offering a 4th rounder to up their offers. There is too large a gap between 4th round and 1st round...if a team felt a 4th was good enough for Trent they would likely tell themselves that Trent is out of their price range now and look elsewhere. It's like an auction where you bid $1,000 and another person bids $1,500, and then someone is planted in the audience to bid $10,000 at the last minute...more than likely you're not gonna bid anymore lol. And you're definitely not gonna bid $5,000, because what's the point. Basically, I don't think the 1st round talk was a leak by anyone related to the Redskins. It doesn't make any sense to do so.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

My point wasn't about the validity of the beat writers' reports...it was about the logic behind the Skins leaking a story that someone is now offering them a 1st round pick for Trent in order to get those other teams that were offering a 4th rounder to up their offers. There is too large a gap between 4th round and 1st round...if a team felt a 4th was good enough for Trent they would likely tell themselves that Trent is out of their price range now and look elsewhere. It's like an auction where you bid $1,000 and another person bids $1,500, and then someone at the last minute bids $10,000...more than likely you're not gonna bid anymore lol. And you're definitely not gonna bid $5,000. Basically, I don't think the 1st round talk was a leak by anyone related to the Redskins. It doesn't make any sense to do so.

 

It would make sense to come from the Skins if the best offer they had *on the table* was a 4th but they knew teams were willing to pay considerably more.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I see this on the flip side as well though. Whatever team trades for him will offer him a fair extension. At that point if you're Trent, do you really turn down a long-term extension after giving up a whole year's worth pay and not know how your body will hold up this upcoming season given your age and time away? It's risky for the team, sure, but I think it's riskier for Trent. Besides, teams have tag options to play with anyway. Trent isn't really in a position to play hardball with the Skins AND the team we trade him to.

 

My take is if the team is willing to take the risk on it, then it doesn't matter what Trent thinks.  Again, I do think the idea is (and it happens in plenty of trades) is that whatever team trades for him is comfortable with figuring out the contract with the possibility of losing him or they want to settle the extension now.  I get Trent wants the extension but that doesn't matter.  That's for example how it's looking right now for Seattle-Clowney.  Seattle was willing to assume that risk.  If a team is willing to assume the risk then whatever Trent thinks about it is irrelevant and he'd have little to lose to play out the year if he believes in himself.

 

If I were Trent and I was determined to get more money and I played well for my new team, I wouldn't give a rats behind about giving my new team a deal on a long-term extension.  If they paid me well, then I'd take the deal.  If they franchise him, I'd guess in 2021, it would be like 17 million a year or close enough.  But on our end, I don't see why we'd care what Trent does with a new team.  We'd just want the team looking to acquire him be cool with that side of the equation in advance of the deal. 

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, dyst said:

Love how in the year Trent is available, happens to be a year with a deep LT draft class.

 

Even better is us having the #2 overall pick, in a weak QB draft class with teams not fighting to trade up.

I mean I think teams are fighting to trade up but what Washington wants is a haul very few teams would be on with ponying up. That’s why the Detroit pick is very sought after and in much demand. Once Burrow and Chase are gone it’s a big lump of players that could go between 3 and 10

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

It would make sense to come from the Skins if the best offer they had *on the table* was a 4th but they knew teams were willing to pay considerably more.

 

How would they know that if nobody has offered anything higher than a 4th round pick?

[KillBill26]

35 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Hell no on franchising him. 
 

Also, my biggest worry is a team like TB drafting an LT and trading Donovan Smith to another LT hungry team for a 5th and that’s two teams right off the bat not interested. I’m hoping all the Tackle-starved teams don’t just deal among themselves.

I wouldn't worry about the bucs trading Donovan Smith to anyone for a pick, since he is slated to get 14.5 mil guaranteed in 2020 and is average at best.  If we traded TW to t bay, we would have to take d smith back since t bay couldn't afford both, but that would be doing them a favor.  Taking the 14.5 off their books would hopefully solidify a solid return for TW.

 

That being said, I haven't heard anything about t bay being interested in doing this.