WP: Josh Norman slams Redskins fans after road win: 'They boo everything'

[samy316]

Norman is right and wrong at the same time, if that's even possible.  He's right that the fan experience is not great at all at Fed-Ex.  We probably have a bottom 5 home field advantage in the NFL, not much better than the LA teams, Tampa, Miami, etc.  This is a transient town at the end of the day, so like those towns I just listed, you have a lot of people living here from all over the U.S., who want to come out to see their team play at Fed-Ex every 3-4 years.  These people who move here are more likely to root for their home team than to adopt the Skins (really, why would anyone ever want to make the Skins their second favorite team).

 

While Norman is correct about the fan experience, he is incorrect about why the fans boo the team, and never show up to the stadium.  Josh has only been here 2 years, so he has no idea of the prior mediocrity, bad decisions by upper management and the awful losses that have occurred at that building the last 20 years.  He's could never understand Redskins fans pain and anguish over this team.  It's going to take more seasons like this one to get people back to the stadium.  At 6-3, fans are not going to rush back to Fed-Ex all of a sudden, and sell the place out.  At this point, fans are looking for consistency.  If we win a playoff game, and get off to a hot start next year, then you'll start to see a difference.

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

This is not a class room, and I did not come here to learn, "teacher". When you use degrading langue like that you most certainly are acting like your better than other people, and trying to be an intimidater. Again your tactics are coming up short in that department, and that kind of garbage just makes you sound like a depressing character. Again 6-3. One of the few times in a long time where this fan base should be having fun. If you don't want to go to the games, great no one is forcing you. But stop complaing that players and other fans might want to see our team have a home field advantage to help them keep succeeding. Just win Redskins, just win! HTTR

 

Sorry you so sensitive you can't read what I'm saying or what i disagree with you on. 

 

Nothing wrong wanting more fans to go to the games, but you started a call out thread for the home fans in the area and ignored them like you are trying to ignore me.  You literally called us pathetic, so don't talk to me about degrading language. 

 

I may still be going, but for a lot of people 6-3 doesn't make up for all the reasons why the stadium can't fill up again.  

[skins2victory]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Sorry you so sensitive you can't read what I'm saying or what i disagree with you on. 

 

Nothing wrong wanting more fans to go to the games, but you started a call out thread for the home fans in the area and ignored them like you are trying to ignore me.  You literally called us pathetic, so don't talk to me about degrading language. 

 

I may still be going, but for a lot of people 6-3 doesn't make up for all the reasons why the stadium can't fill up again.  

Hahahaha! You kill me guy, you kill me. You know what, I know that my stance on the subject is the unpopular one. But some people are "Renegades". Now renegades are the people with their own philosophies. They change the course of history, everyday people like you and me. Again, just another hard core fan hoping to see my team succeed, and have a home field advantage. HTTR

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

Hahahaha! You kill me guy, you kill me. You know what, I know that my stance on the subject is the unpopular one. But some people are "Renegades". Now renegades are the people with their own philosophies. They change the course of history, everyday people like you and me. Again, just another hard core fan hoping to see my team succeed, and have a home field advantage. HTTR

 

Renegades challenge conventional wisdom, disrespect of it isnt required.

 

If you look at Norman's full comments, you can see why i say he doesn't get it. It will fill up again this year at some point. He talked about the 1-6 game against us, Giants have a fan base that has been maintained and replenished due to recent super bowl wins. 

 

Redskins fans from the 80s are damn near beaten to death and a lot of people my age are fans of other teams now.  You cannot fix that with a 6-3 record.

[SoulSkin]

His comments are probably due in part to the general mindset of a NFL player. There's a job to do, and the past has zippy to do with it. Doesn't matter what happened last week, or last year, let alone the past 25 years. It's the 2018 (first place in the division, for now) Redskins, and week 11 is coming up. "We're on to Cincinnati  Houston". He's who he is, says what he's thinking in the moment, and that's pretty much that. He'll never quite understand the experience of being a fan of this team, and having witnessed the pre-Snyder era (If you were lucky) and the entirety of the Snyder "stewardship" of the team. That's all. Just trying to drum up some support.

 

From his perspective, and the jaded fan's perspective, change ain't coming overnight. Truthfully, he'll probably be gone before it can come to fruition. If/when there is some combination of sustained success on the field, hopefully evidence of better leadership/direction off the field, and a better stadium situation, then things might swing back to a full-on HTTR love fest, with a real home field advantage. I don't think that will be coming to FedEx though. I get his confusion about it a little, but I'm also kind of a pissy fan at this point. Bottom line is, results on the field matter, as does methodology from the organization as a whole. Play hard and try to win, but no team always wins, so compete and improve. I see you trying. I respect it. We all have to work with our limitations. Even more importantly, run the team like good teams are run. Solid and steady leadership, with competent decision making, by people that are actually competent. Show me. I still love you Redskins, and that's why I'm telling you this. I want what's best for you, and me, and all the fans that Josh wants to unequivocally support the team. xxxOOOxxx

[Cooleyfan1993]

57 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Renegades challenge conventional wisdom, disrespect of it isnt required.

Ohhhh please PLEASE tell me you caught the “renegades” joke by @skins2victory.....

[Koolblue13]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You’re one of the folks whining about bad fans and negativity.  I agree you’ve been positive for the most part this season but that’s definitely a new look for you.  Most of the negativity your talking about stems from the QB and abysmal offense.  I just can’t grasp why it’s okay to be critical of everyone but the QB.

Who's everyone? 

[NewCliche21]

12 hours ago, TK said:

NY started to empty out in the 3rd when you & I were there. By the 4th that place was FedEx North.

 

Tampa only filled the lower bowl yesterday. Club Level & Upper Deck were half empty. The entire Skins sideline lower bowl & South end zone were FedEx South. 

 

Both of these games these fans were LOUD. You had them Singing Hail To The Redskins all throughout the 4th. Yesterday was so impressive, Doc even climbed up in the stands mic in hand with the fans. This crowd even had the DEFENSE chant going while we were on defense.

 

Yeah, in NY it wasn't looking full to begin with but by the middle of the first it was what I'd expect.  People were leaving early because the team was terrible and clearly not getting better.  I don't think it's much different from how it is at FedEx.  I was there all of 2006 and 2007, and I was there for half of 2012 including the playoff game.  If we're winning or doing well, then there's more home fans.  If we're not, then there's more away fans.

 

It was the same at Dallas for Thanksgiving.  That place was roaring for RGIII in 2012.  Give the fans something to cheer for, like absolutely blowing someone out in that game, and they'll be loud.  At home a "meh" game is just a "meh" game.  On the road there's a whole different feel because you're an outsider and the wins just mean so much more.  Supply and demand in that aspect.

12 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

If you cant tell the difference between Zorn era and now, I can only assume you want to be upset.

 

Translation:  I have no argument and it is inconvenient when the things I claim are used against me.

 

Cool.

5 hours ago, samy316 said:

At 6-3, fans are not going to rush back to Fed-Ex all of a sudden, and sell the place out.  At this point, fans are looking for consistency.  If we win a playoff game, and get off to a hot start next year, then you'll start to see a difference.

 

So you're saying that good teams that can be counted on to win as opposed to eke one out will get more fans in the stands?

 

By golly, that's insane!

[Koolblue13]

@NewCliche21 so why are the players making it up? Why are other fans of the Redskins making it up? Why were you agreeing with the sentiment earlier if its wrong? 

 

You've already said they are right and you just dont like them saying it. It's not an argument. At all. Everyone agrees. The issue you seem to have is admitting it.

[cakmoney61]

6 hours ago, carex said:

 

no, his comments are supposed to say that fans like you suck as fans

I'm not understanding the hostility towards fans who feel the way they feel.  These emotions have built up over years of consistently disappointing and mediocre football.  A bad fan is one who boos consistently winning teams whenever they don't play well.

 

I've seen Redskins fans cheer their brains out time and time again at home only to watch the other team score at will anyway or watch them lose another game they should have or could have won.  

 

Having a 6-3 record will not make everyone forget the years of pathetic football.  Especially if you've witnessed how the team got to 6-3.  The wins with this offense (especially the QB) have been anything but dominant.  

 

The fans didn't get this way over night so it's disingenuous to treat them as fair-weather fans.  The fans have been more than patient with the team over the many years.  Now the team and other fans need to be patient with the fans or at least empathetic as to how they got here. 

[RedskinsLegacy]

I can't help but agree with him, truth is truth. Fed-Ex Field has never been home field advantage since it was built. I hear more fans from opposing teams than I do our own and I hate it. NewClitche hit on it when he said losing brought that atmosphere. I sure miss the days of RFK and watching opposing teams take time outs, false starts and many times QB's not walking to the LOS because they could hear nothing but Fanatic Redskins fans. Only winning will bring that atmosphere back, but Fed Ex will still never match what RFK brought. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Who's everyone? 

Any of the other 52 players or coaches.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 theories, one from Boswell, one from Finlay.  I got both theories and I think there is some truth to both of them.  But I do think specific to the stadium the #1 problem as Finlay gets into is the actual stadium and the experience there. 

 

Boswell

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/12/tom-boswell-josh-norman-doesnt-know-redskins-history/?utm_term=.6dc7a6c43431

It’s a tough situation for the Skins, and has been for several years at FedEx because the only people that fans can boo are the players. But they (in most cases) really want to boo Snyder and team president Bruce Allen. The players think, “Our fans are against us.” It’s far closer to the truth just to say that many fans are FedUp at FedEx and take it out on any target of opportunity when things go badly.

And, of course, general declining interest also opens up tickets for fans of the visiting team to show up and cheer.

 

Finlay

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/redskins-fans-and-players-can-both-be-right-about-fedex-field-frustrations

Norman and Swearinger are right. There are always a lot of visiting fans at FedEx Field. Some of that might be that Washington is a transient city, but some of it is also because other fans have determined that it's easy to get tickets at FedEx Field. 

Why is it easy for visiting fans to get tickets? Well, there's not much sizzle at FedEx Field.

The area doesn't have shopping or restaurants around it like many newer NFL stadiums. The traffic, like much of life in the D.C. area, is awful. The stadium itself is underwhelming; old and lacking character. 

 

The Redskins are working hard to overhaul the game day experience, and some of the efforts are alrady working. But the problem is some fans have soured on the idea of spending the day at FedEx Field, and that will take time to fix. Probably years. 

One obvious fix? A new stadium, preferably back in downtown D.C. That is a long way off though. 

Plenty of fans are bothered by Swearinger and Norman's comments, and they have reason for that, too. 

To start with, there are tens of thousands of fans at every home game, cheering on their club. Lifelong, loyal fans that pay good money to watch the Burgundy and Gold. 

 

Do some boo? Certainly. But they only boo when the team is bad. Play good, no boos. It's fairly simple.

And the boos aren't only about a specific game, or even a specific season. Many Redskins fans are just frustrated with the franchise in general for a litany of reasons. Things have been stable under Jay Gruden, but for a long time, they weren't. 

What isn't fair for Norman and Swearinger is they played zero part in the multi-decade erosion of the Redskins fan base. And some would argue the fan base hasn't actually eroded, just that fewer fans want to make the trek to the stadium and commit to the full day that is attending an NFL game.

 

For 20 years, Washington has played plenty of bad football at home. During that time, some fans simply decided they'd rather watch on television, or go for a walk, or do yard work, or hang with their family. 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Any of the other 52 players or coaches.

Wait, I'm so confused. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

JP Finlay is spot on there.  

[ixcuincle]

The easy fix is just to go. If you go to the ES Tailgate it won't matter that much if they win or lose tbh. Because in the end you were the winner for eating at that fine tailgate.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wait, I'm so confused. 

Most of the negativity being complained about is directly related to one player, Alex Smith.  Why does not believing in Smith make folks bad fans?  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

"LMAO. People make millions off of entertaining people like me, and if we're not entertained it's on us and we should be ashamed."

 

 

That actually points to what I think is the real problem...too many Skins fans treat following the team as entertainment, as where it used to be that fans treated it as being part of the experience and a virtual part of the team. The Packers and the Browns have been on the opposite ends of the success spectrum, yet both seem to have fan bases with a larger percentage of fans who feel they are part of everything going on, and not just fans passively sitting back and observing as an audience, applauding when it's entertaining and booing and throwing tomatoes when they feel it's not. It's also one reason why guys like Romo and Cousins were loved so much--they made things more entertaining. Didn't necessarily help get their teams more wins, but they did entertain the "audience" more. it's not the only reason, but it's definitely one of the main ones.

 

It used to be that if you were a Redskins fan and wanted to feel a part of the Skins community, you either went to games or watched them at a Skins-friendly sports bar. I'm positive there is a decent chunk of Skins fans now who stay at home and instead feel their community is here at extremeskins or other message boards, or on twitter. The problem with that is that ES can easily become an echo chamber of negativity, which can dull your enjoyment of the season even when the Skins are winning. I posted a video after the Cowboys win showing some bar somewhere filled with Skins fans, who all erupted in cheers after the Cowboys' FG attempt bonked off the upright...they then began to sing "Hail To The Redskins" in unison. It was pretty noisy and pretty cool. Contrast that to what tends to occur on the game day threads here...where there is post after post predicting the FG will be good and the Skins will lose in OT, followed by post after post of milquetoast celebratory comments, with a lot of "we got lucky/we still suck on offense/any decent team would have blown us out" comments added in. Followed then by a rush to the threads that have been slamming different aspects of the team to add in more criticism.

 

I guarantee you nobody in that bar immediately started criticizing the team or diminishing the win. Nobody immediately went into a rant as to why Bruce Allen or Dan Snyder is ruining the team. They just enjoyed the win, and put whatever critical analysis they had on the game off until later. It wasn't necessary. I've been in a lot of sports bars, restaurants and casinos watching Skins games, and when they win it's a helluva lot more enjoyable than being on this board lately. It's one reason I've distanced myself from ES during the season over the last 6 years. I end up enjoying the wins far more and the misery of the losses don't sting nearly as much, and tend to evaporate far quicker. It also used to be that if you wanted to interact with players in any way, you had to commit money and time to attend a game, even if it just meant cheering from the stands. Now you can just go to twitter from your couch and directly interact with players even if they don't directly respond. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it probably does play role in how fans view things like attending games.

 

After the Falcons disaster, Swearinger tweeted something like 'Learn from it, sleep on it, put it behind you and get ready for next week" with 'httr' hastags and stuff like that there. I pretty much never do this, but I responded to his tweet. I said "You don't realize this right now, but you're only going to lose one more time this season" (I have my own reasons for that prediction lol)...for a brief moment, it kinda felt like I was supporting the team right at a time when I had every reason to criticize the team and write them off as frauds. he didn't respond to it or 'like' it...not sure he even read it lol. But it did feel good to an extent to offer support as a fan even though I was in no way "entertained" by their performance in the loss. I was going to respond with the quote that's in my sig, but changed my mind.

 

Maybe this is ultimately what this is about in Norman's (and other's) eyes. That many fans may view this as entertainment but players view fans as an important part of the process of winning. That fans may have moved their "community" elsewhere but players really hope they bring it back to the stadiums. I guess I could apply my sig to the fan base and paraphrase it a bit: Loser fan bases expect failure, winner fan bases ignore it. i still don't think Norman should have said anything, but it's becoming obvious that Redskins players want the fan base to become winners again as much as Skins fans want the team to become winners again. Both sides are right here, imo.

 

 

 

[Mooka]

If this was a competently run organization then Norman would be benched for a game.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For 20 years, Washington has played plenty of bad football at home. During that time, some fans simply decided they'd rather watch on television, or go for a walk, or do yard work, or hang with their family. 

 

First of all, let me say that I don't think it ever benefits a player to go public with this type of sentiment. Secondly, I would never tell any fan how to spend their money or their Sundays. 

 

But, what I quoted above hits on the primary takeaway for me and what never made sense to me...if you don't want to go, don't go. I hate going to home games. I hate the traffic, the atmosphere, the location, etc. I also love consuming football on TV. It's how I grew up in the 80s. Watch the Skins (usually) win, then watch the later games and root for favorable outcomes. That, to me, is the tradition. So, I'll never rip fans for not going to the games. 

 

But once you're there, why in the world would you sit there and boo the team you love? Why would we focus 25 years of frustration on players who are doing their best and haven't been a part of 95% of those negative seasons? It's stupid. Some fans seem to have this attitude that they "deserve" something because they choose to spend their time and money going to games. Nope. You're willingly attending these things for entertainment and shouldn't have some odd chip on your shoulder about it. Your alternative is not to go. 

 

Many of us played sports, so we can probably relate to what Norman and Swearinger are saying. Again, I don't agree that they should say it, but I agree with their point. If you aren't there to be positive or encouraging, they don't want you there. That doesn't mean you have to do what they say, but their opinion is completely logical and valid. 

 

This is weird for me, because almost every time there's a player vs. team/fans/league type of debate I fall on the opposite side of the player. But here, I completely side with them. 

[Dissident2]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But they (in most cases) really want to boo Snyder and team president Bruce Allen.

 

Exactly what I was saying earlier. Seems pretty obvious, though, to anyone who's followed this team for more than a couple years. 

 

I read earlier someone refer to the RG3 situation as "a setback" as well. That was no setback. It was a space station. Or something like that. 

 

But seriously, the utter collapse of RG3 was SOUL-DESTROYING to this fan base. It can't be underestimated how much of a kill shot that one was to getting new fans into the fold and keeping old fans encouraged. To go from such utter extremes — one minute thinking we'd found a savior at QB for the next 15 years to, just a few months later, realizing we were probably screwed again (and we still don't have any longterm answer at QB) — again, what that did to the fan base cannot be overstated. 

 

I get the players' frustration, but they don't get it. Just keep winning and things will slowly begin to change. But the scars of the last 20 years are DEEP. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

First of all, let me say that I don't think it ever benefits a player to go public with this type of sentiment. Secondly, I would never tell any fan how to spend their money or their Sundays. 

 

But, what I quoted above hits on the primary takeaway for me and what never made sense to me...if you don't want to go, don't go. I hate going to home games. I hate the traffic, the atmosphere, the location, etc. I also love consuming football on TV. It's how I grew up in the 80s. Watch the Skins (usually) win, then watch the later games and root for favorable outcomes. That, to me, is the tradition. So, I'll never rip fans for not going to the games. 

 

But once you're there, why in the world would you sit there and boo the team you love? Why would we focus 25 years of frustration on players who are doing their best and haven't been a part of 95% of those negative seasons? It's stupid. Some fans seem to have this attitude that they "deserve" something because they choose to spend their time and money going to games. Nope. You're willingly attending these things for entertainment and shouldn't have some odd chip on your shoulder about it. Your alternative is not to go. 

 

Many of us played sports, so we can probably relate to what Norman and Swearinger are saying. Again, I don't agree that they should say it, but I agree with their point. If you aren't there to be positive or encouraging, they don't want you there. That doesn't mean you have to do what they say, but their opinion is completely logical and valid. 

 

This is weird for me, because almost every time there's a player vs. team/fans/league type of debate I fall on the opposite side of the player. But here, I completely side with them. 

 

As for fans booing, I've not done so myself but I've been to plenty of stadiums baseball and football -- and I've heard plenty of boos from home fans.  It's not a Redskins fans thing.  I know some say its Philly and they are unique.  But yeah I've heard it in many stadiums.  I just think its general fan frustration for better or worse.

 

But like I said I get Norman's sentiment coming off the Tampa game -- Redskins fans take over other team's stadiums or come close enough.  And the opposite thing often happens in DC.  It's a weird dynamic.  Steeler fans travel well, GB, too but the opponent's fans don't take over their stadiums in reverse.  

 

Just following sports over the years, the Redskins fans showcased on the road and conversely are showed up at home -- that's a funky dynamic.  I think the closest parallel is oddly enough the Cowboys.  

[Renegade7]

7 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Ohhhh please PLEASE tell me you caught the “renegades” joke by @skins2victory.....

Think that's Renegades of Funk.

 

I'll be pleasantly surprised if stadium fills up against Houston.  I dont think it will happen until the philly game if we need it for playoffs or the home playoff game itself.  Players can make all the comments they want, all they are doing is putting more pressure on themselves.

 

If you live in the area and been to multiple home games, I expect you to feel differently then someone on the road who rarely gets to see their team in person.  

[Mr. Sinister]

9 hours ago, samy316 said:

Norman is right and wrong at the same time, if that's even possible.  He's right that the fan experience is not great at all at Fed-Ex.  We probably have a bottom 5 home field advantage in the NFL, not much better than the LA teams, Tampa, Miami, etc.  This is a transient town at the end of the day, so like those towns I just listed, you have a lot of people living here from all over the U.S., who want to come out to see their team play at Fed-Ex every 3-4 years.  These people who move here are more likely to root for their home team than to adopt the Skins (really, why would anyone ever want to make the Skins their second favorite team).

 

While Norman is correct about the fan experience, he is incorrect about why the fans boo the team, and never show up to the stadium.  Josh has only been here 2 years, so he has no idea of the prior mediocrity, bad decisions by upper management and the awful losses that have occurred at that building the last 20 years.  He's could never understand Redskins fans pain and anguish over this team.  It's going to take more seasons like this one to get people back to the stadium.  At 6-3, fans are not going to rush back to Fed-Ex all of a sudden, and sell the place out.  At this point, fans are looking for consistency.  If we win a playoff game, and get off to a hot start next year, then you'll start to see a difference.

 

This is ultimately my stance as well. Neither Josh, nor the fans can have it both ways. I'm ok with him not liking the way things are done around here, but it is what it is. You don't like it? Play better, win football games.

 

Fans don't have to spend their hard earned money going to games and cheering for this team (I sure as hell won't), but at the sane time, if you dont like what he said (which was largely truthful), then go to the games, spend your hard earned money, and stop giving your tickets to rival fans.

 

Make a choice and live with it.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

If you live in the area and been to multiple home games, I expect you to feel differently then someone on the road who rarely gets to see their team in person.  

 

 

I always got the impression, right or wrong, that the Skins crowds at away games were comprised of at least 50% Skins fans who travel to the game, not ones who happen to live in the area.