petey hodge

Does Doctson even care?

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Posted (edited)

Wonder if by some highly unlikely scenario, he has a super breakout year, but then bolts for another team, to stick it to the Skins for not picking up his option.

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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8 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Wonder if by some highly unlikely scenario, he has a super breakout year, but then bolts for another team, to stick it to the Skins for not picking up his option.

 

That's the most Redskins thing that could happen, so...... 

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12 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Wonder if by some highly unlikely scenario, he has a super breakout year, but then bolts for another team, to stick it to the Skins for not picking up his option.

 

Just remember though,  he was a first round pick so if he leaves we will get an awesome comp pick for him. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Wonder if by some highly unlikely scenario, he has a super breakout year, but then bolts for another team, to stick it to the Skins for not picking up his option.

That would be the 2d best outcome for the Redskins.

Edited by nonniey
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2 hours ago, VaK9Trainer said:

 

Just remember though,  he was a first round pick so if he leaves we will get an awesome comp pick for him. 

 

No.  The best comp pick possible will be a third rounder and even then it will depend on the contract he signs

 

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Remember Ricky Williams? He started getting into philosophy and smoking weed and had no desire to be a good football player. It wasn’t till he became broke that he came back and played better. 

 

Doctson seems to be going the same route. He has the physical tools but whether he’s really into it and wants to become the man is unsure at this point. I wanna see him become our #1 but I’m starting to doubt that will ever happen. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2019 at 10:58 PM, Malapropismic Depository said:

Wonder if by some highly unlikely scenario, he has a super breakout year, but then bolts for another team, to stick it to the Skins for not picking up his option.

 

They could always tag him. 

 

Doctsons 5th year option was 10 million. I believe the franchise tag for WR is around 16 million. 

 

So the Skins are risking 6 million in my opinion. Personally the guy has showed close to nothing to this team. So it's a good risk. 

Edited by desertbeagle85
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On 7/3/2019 at 3:06 PM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’ve been with each of them individually. Not at the same time.

 

I don't think he meant in print lol...

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6 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I hope hes the last wide receiver we ever take in the first

 

Granted a lot of busts at the receiver in the first round over the years for many teams (I don't see Doctson as a bust but he hasn't lived up to his billing thus far) but IMO next draft isn't the year to skip a receiver in the first round.  It's looking to be a historic draft for that position.  And among the choices a lot of Alabama possibilities which I think will be tempting for this FO. 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I hope hes the last wide receiver we ever take in the first

 

I hope he's the last 23 year old WR we ever draft in the 1st rd.  

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8 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

I hope he's the last 23 year old WR we ever draft in the 1st rd.  

I hope he's the last 23 year old WR from TCU we ever take in the first round.

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8 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I hope he's the last 23 year old WR from TCU we ever take in the first round.

.....trying to think of a new way to say that like all of you but i cant come up with anything. Thanks a lot.....

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

.....trying to think of a new way to say that like all of you but i cant come up with anything. Thanks a lot.....

I considered listing his physical sizes instead, but I've always been one to pick the low-hanging fruit.

Edited by NickyJ

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Doc isn't a bust, so to speak, based on his ability to play the WR position. He just never played all 16 games due to injury for the first two years and then got Smith as his QB and then 4 other QB's. You really can't be a #1 WR when you are never thrown the ball to or lack any chemistry with your QB. This year really depends on who our QB is, for all 16 games and if Doc is on the field for those 16 games. I am pretty sure he will do a lot better than last year though. 

 

So yeah, next year he goes to another team with a proven a QB he will be that WR the coaches wanted him to be here. We just never been lucky enough to get a WR that started out 16 games and became that stud their 1st year. Look at the WR (Treadwell) that Minny took that some wanted here, he has less stellar numbers than Doc. I still think we got the better WR from the two. Stupid injury set Doctson back though. 

 

Doctson even said he needs chemistry and he did have his best season last year despite the QB carousel we had last year. 

 

 “I’m not trying to prove nothing to nobody. Just trying to get chemistry with the quarterbacks.

Doctson did have the best numbers of his career in 2018, but that was just 44 catches for 532 yards. He’ll need more than that if he’s going to earn a big contract in free agency next year.

 

I think a lot of you are getting caught by his nothing to prove comment. He is right. He only needs to prove to himself and no one else. 

 

So picking up with 5th year options doesn't make any sense to the FO with the half-filled glass.

 

At least Quinn is really good.... There is always next year..... 

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On 7/4/2019 at 6:15 PM, skinsfan93 said:

Remember Ricky Williams? He started getting into philosophy and smoking weed and had no desire to be a good football player. It wasn’t till he became broke that he came back and played better. 

 

Doctson seems to be going the same route. He has the physical tools but whether he’s really into it and wants to become the man is unsure at this point. I wanna see him become our #1 but I’m starting to doubt that will ever happen. 

 

Not sure anything in this post is accurate. Ricky Williams was far better in his first stint in the league than when came back and "played better". Williams played 5 season before "retiring" and in 4 of them topped 1000 yards (and in the 5th he got 884 yards in 12 games). In the six seasons after coming back (not including the year in which he was suspended for the season. You know, for failing a drug test. Again), he topped 1000 yards once. All his Pro Bowls came in his first stint. If you're looking for an example of a player "getting it", Williams probably isn't the right choice.

 

Not to mention, I'm not sure there's any correlation to Doctson here. It's easy to write off a failed first round pick as "not wanting it enough", but is there any evidence to actually back this up? I'm asking because I don't fully know. I'm not keeping up on Josh Doctson 24/7. But things I've read suggest he actually is a hard worker and not some lazy bum smoking weed all the time. Sounds more like a situation of the Redskins badly misjudging his actual talent than Doctson not trying. Too much of the criticism about him seems to be speculation based on some quotes of his than tangible evidence he's lazy.

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I think Doctson suffered from two factors so far. 

 

He’s slow. I think he ran a 4.8 40. That’s slow for a linebacker. It may be okay for a Guard. On top of that, I have heard he doesn’t run the crispest routes to counter his lack of speed. In a league with a lot of 4.2 guys Doctson is a turtle who lacks the quickness or route running to compensate. 

 

He’s played with conservative QBs. Doctson’s best attributes are his size and hands. He wants to box defenders out and win contested passes. Our QBs, though, only want to throw to open guys or guys breaking open. Somehow that translated into our slowest receiver being used as a deep threat. 

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Posted (edited)

Josh ran a 4.5 forty which is very respectable. Jerry Rice ran a 4.7.  He has just not developed the way many thought he might. It does appear he does not have burst of quickness via the eye test. He seems to rely on the vertical game. Actually, he had a terrific combine, came here & had the Achilles issue right off the bat.  Just a cursed pick. Hell, even worse was the Cravens pick after that.  At least we got Ioan & Fuller (damnit) later. Hail

Edited by Riggo'sRangers

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I guess you're right. I remembered a slower time. 4.54 is okay. Not great speed and far from elite, but good speed. Is it his route running then? His lack of quickness?

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3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I guess you're right. I remembered a slower time. 4.54 is okay. Not great speed and far from elite, but good speed. Is it his route running then? His lack of quickness?

Probably a little of all of that, along with the lack of an alpha mentality, which is really required to excel in the NFL. Hail

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, zskins said:

Doc isn't a bust, so to speak, based on his ability to play the WR position. He just never played all 16 games due to injury for the first two years and then got Smith as his QB and then 4 other QB's. You really can't be a #1 WR when you are never thrown the ball to or lack any chemistry with your QB. This year really depends on who our QB is, for all 16 games and if Doc is on the field for those 16 games. I am pretty sure he will do a lot better than last year though. 

 

So yeah, next year he goes to another team with a proven a QB he will be that WR the coaches wanted him to be here. We just never been lucky enough to get a WR that started out 16 games and became that stud their 1st year. Look at the WR (Treadwell) that Minny took that some wanted here, he has less stellar numbers than Doc. I still think we got the better WR from the two. Stupid injury set Doctson back though. 

 

Doctson even said he needs chemistry and he did have his best season last year despite the QB carousel we had last year. 

 

 “I’m not trying to prove nothing to nobody. Just trying to get chemistry with the quarterbacks.

Doctson did have the best numbers of his career in 2018, but that was just 44 catches for 532 yards. He’ll need more than that if he’s going to earn a big contract in free agency next year.

 

I think a lot of you are getting caught by his nothing to prove comment. He is right. He only needs to prove to himself and no one else. 

 

So picking up with 5th year options doesn't make any sense to the FO with the half-filled glass.

 

At least Quinn is really good.... There is always next year..... 

This is the most balanced post I have read on the guy.  Injuries began the derailing of his "career" if that is what we want to call it.  I don't even think it has started.  He absolutely  had no chemistry, best word to describe it, nor could it even begin,  when you think of the conservative QB play of Smith,  who is known to not turn the ball over, but  he has neither the arm or the proclivity to throw the ol' jump ball stuff that Doctson excels at.  The guy is not your typical WR and has never been use properly.  And because of that he never should have been picked up in the 1st round.   And even Cousins to a degree - especially after that loss to KC, I think it was in the EZ,  plus a few other dropped tosses due to  timing, etc.  It is definitely chemistry. 

 

Who would he excel with?  Aaron Rodgers every game.  The guy goes off script, has the arm, the confidence to just use someone like Doctson.  Patrick McHomes too. Baker Mayfield absolutely.  Even Drew Bree's.  The QB's have to have confidence, be willing to work on placement, chemistry, etc.  

 

   He could have a better year with our QB's IF Gruden dials up some plays that are geared towards his strengths.   Unfortunately I agree with a lot of the posters on how predictable Gruden is on 1st downs. With a guy like Doc you can't be conservative and predictable.  Gruden  should be going for it on 1st down and let someone like Doc out maneuver, out jump his opponents.  I mean mix the **** up.  I would really like this offense to take some chances this year.  And Gruden should because he is going to be gone either way if we tank.  Might as well tank with some risk taking and style. 

Edited by skinsmania123
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Posted (edited)

Doctson actually has good speed for his size, he's not slow.  He's a good athlete period.  He had sticky hands in college and can high point a ball really well.  He is tall with good vertical-leaping ability.  

 

 I liked Doctson before the draft.  To me he's a big lesson in the idea of what Cooley and some others like to say first and foremost does the dude love football.  If you are passionate about the sport and have a drive to excel it can mean a lot as to future success.  And I am not saying Doctson doesn't have it. I don't know.  He is so mild mannered and shy or so he seems and then you couple that with he doesn't seem that tough when it comes to winning contested catches -- that it makes me question his passion.

 

I don't think he's a bust like some here do.  I think he's a decent third type receiver.  50% give or take first rounders are complete busts in the 2nd half of the first round -- and plenty have busted specifically at the receiver spot.  it's one of the hardest positions to develop in the NFL.  It should be interesting to see if there is a camp battle between him and Harmon.  I am not sure which receiver is going to play X behind Doctson -- I presume its Harmon because I've heard multiple times McLaurin is playing Z.  But who knows?  Harmon plays with a lot of gusto and at least in college was a beast with contested balls.  And he can block. He's not as fast as Doctson though.  Doctson though is developing into a good blocker in his own right. 

 

Lot of us worship McVay these days.  I've heard multiple times from different beat guys say that McVay pounded the table for them to draft Doctson behind the scenes.   I think it was Keim or someone else who said they talked to someone in the FO who thought that Doctson would blossom once he is on another team -- referring to this offense doesn't really cater well to his skill set.  You got me if that's the case.  But i'd say judging by his combine and college stats -- there was a lot to like.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2620241-josh-doctson-turns-heads-with-explosive-nfl-combine-peformance

Josh Doctson Turns Heads with Explosive NFL Combine Performance

 

Josh Doctson, wide receiver draft prospect out of TCU, woke up anyone who'd been sleeping on him with a huge NFL Scouting Combine performance.

On a day when a lot of wide receivers disappointed with slow runs, Doctson delivered a 4.50 official 40-yard dash time. Even better, his lower-body explosion numbers were nearly off-the-chart: a 41-inch vertical jump and 131-inch broad jump were first- and second-best among receivers, respectively, and second- and third-best out of all players tested through the first two days.

Doctson's MockDraftable.com spider graph shows just how wild his combine measurables are, compared to other receiver prospects:

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I think there are lots of factors that helped this situation be a bit of a perfect storm for Doctson to not live up to his draft potential. I also don't think he's a "bust", but he didn't live up to what we obviously hoped when we picked him in the 1st.

 

I've been of the opinion for some time now that he simply isn't a good fit for this team and its offense + QBs. I liked him during the draft process and when we picked him I really hoped we'd actually use him to his strengths as we hadn't had a WR like him in a while...a dude who had crazy athleticism, great hands, and great body control who will high point balls and win those 50/50 throws. But that didn't really happen outside of a play here and there.

 

Jay is too conservative with his play calling, KC was pretty conservative when it came to throwing those 50/50 balls or anything off-schedule, and Alex was...well...Alex Smith, who sometimes didn't seem to even realized that WRs were on his team. Add to that the injuries, QB carousel, and Doctson simply not consistently playing well enough when his number was called, and you have a guy who probably won't ever live up to his 1st round pedigree.

 

I would love if that somehow proved to be wrong, but I don't really see it. That being said, I think Keenum will be the starter day 1 this year and he's a little bit more of an off schedule type QB so perhaps he'll take more chances and Doctson will get a decent amount of balls thrown his way. I think with Haskins in as a rookie, Doctson won't see much as they'll probably keep it very basic and conservative with plenty of short passes to work DH's confidence and familiarity with the offense. 

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