Fox6: Trump Remarks At Foxconn Groundbreaking

[Destino]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Is this the plant that is expected to take at least 25 years for the government to get its investment back?

 

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/28/technology/foxconn-wisconsin-plant/index.html

Any details on the investment?  I followed the links in the article, then the links in that article and got this:  "Fitzgerald did not provide details on the terms of the package, but sources said it would likely top $1 billion and could close in on $3 billion."  Did the government actually give them money or anything of real value or is this all in the form of tax cuts?

 

10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

This thread has been disappointing so far.  At least @twa is an entertaining troll. This oldschool guy is boring AF.

This is trolling. 

[bearrock]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-foxconns-broken-pledges-in-pennsylvania-cast-doubt-on-trumps-jobs-plan/2017/03/03/0189f3de-ee3a-11e6-9973-c5efb7ccfb0d_story.html?utm_term=.bafdfdfb191d

 

Quote

In 2014, as the Pennsylvania deal was quietly dying, Gou teased the opening of a LCD display factory in the states. His company talked with officials in Colorado and Arizona. Nothing happened.

That same year, the company signed a letter of intent to invest up to $1 billion in Indonesia. That investment still has not occurred.

Foxconn said it would invest $5 billion over five years in India as part of an ambitious expansion in 2014. The deal would create up to 50,000 jobs, Gou said. But Foxconn’s investment in India has amounted to only a small fraction of what it originally promised.

Similar results were seen in Vietnam, where Foxconn committed to a $5 billion investment in 2007, and in Brazil, where Foxconn spoke of a $10 billion plan in 2011. The company made its first major foray in Vietnam only last year. In Brazil, Foxconn has an iPhone factory, but its investment has fallen far short of expectations.

 

If Foxconn really creates 50,000 jobs in Wisconsin, great.  But let's wait and see how it pans out.  They already downgraded from a 10.5 factory to a 6.  Not sure how they hit the promised goals under the circumstances.

[twa]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

Dont live where?  The US?  You only care about things on your street?  Please let me know the geographic radius required for you to care.  I will remember it for your future posts.

 

it is a state and local deal, their money....their choice

 

they will request federal funds for expanding the interstate....but who doesn't?

The company and employees will also pay federal taxes

[Hersh]

14 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Hopefully, the jobs gained would be in Red States and the jobs lost would be in Blue States so I wouldn't care....:-)

 

Our national leaders have taken our economic strength for granted for generations and the heartland got hallowed out as a result.  Finally, we have a leader that is putting our country first and is going to insist on beneficial trade and as a result, Trump and his party is going to be in power for at least another term.

 

You probably jerk off to the thought that people here don’t care about American jobs. You’d be so ****ing wrong you wouldn’t be able to handle it. The good thing for you is that facts don’t matter to you so you don’t have to think critically. All you give a **** about is trying to “stick it to liberals.”

Let me ask you, how often do you go out of your way to buy American made products? Do you look at labels? I doubt it. 

Do you understand that this horrible deal only makes money for the state in 25 years if the company hires 13,000 employees? Do you understand that Wisconsin is at full employment and doesn’t need these jobs at that cost? Do you have any idea of automation coming down the pipe? 

 

The truth of the matter is that you nor Trump know a ****ing thing about trade. You don’t know **** about jobs. You probably think the economy was terrible under Obama and magically is great now under Trump. Oh, anyone that thinks Trump gives a **** about them is a ****ing moron. 

 

 

 

[Springfield]

12 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

This is what I hate about the internet lol

 

I miss the old board where it would show everyone’s age on every single post.  That way I could prejudge a person based on age at every chance.

[twa]

15 minutes ago, Destino said:

Any details on the investment?  I followed the links in the article, then the links in that article and got this:  "Fitzgerald did not provide details on the terms of the package, but sources said it would likely top $1 billion and could close in on $3 billion."  Did the government actually give them money or anything of real value or is this all in the form of tax cuts?

 

This is trolling. 

 

the locals are buying the land and giving tax exemptions 

Is it worth giving a corp you will then tax at a lower rate for a set period?

 

counting Billions that you would not be getting otherwise as 'costs' ignores realityt.

 

is a 1/3 of a pie better than no pie?.....but ya have to buy the flour to get it.

[TheGreatBuzz]

12 minutes ago, Destino said:

Any details on the investment?  I followed the links in the article, then the links in that article and got this:  "Fitzgerald did not provide details on the terms of the package, but sources said it would likely top $1 billion and could close in on $3 billion."  Did the government actually give them money or anything of real value or is this all in the form of tax cuts?

 

I've read some other articles on 5he deal.  I can post some tomorrow but I'm off to bed now.  I just posted a general article to see if he would answer.

8 minutes ago, twa said:

 

it is a state and local deal, their money....their choice

 

they will request federal funds for expanding the interstate....but who doesn't?

The company and employees will also pay federal taxes

So you dont care about issues outside of your locale especially if it isnt your tax dollars.  Is that correct?  Please be clear because i want to bookmark your post.

[twa]

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

So you dont care about issues outside of your locale especially if it isnt your tax dollars.  Is that correct?  Please be clear because i want to bookmark your post.

 

I don't care about this deal, nor much about Wisconsin.....ya can put that in your notes.

[Llevron]

What kind of drugs does it take to keep a 70 year old awake at this time of night? 

[twa]

Just now, Llevron said:

What kind of drugs does it take to keep a 70 year old awake at this time of night? 

 

old people need less sleep junior.

[TK]

Clearly someone needs help....

[Destino]

9 minutes ago, twa said:

 

the locals are buying the land and giving tax exemptions 

Is it worth giving a corp you will then tax at a lower rate for a set period?

 

counting Billions that you would not be getting otherwise as 'costs' ignores realityt.

 

is a 1/3 of a pie better than no pie?.....but ya have to buy the flour to get it.

I'd have to see the details to have an opinion.  In general though I agree with the idea that something is better than nothing, especially if that something means Americans employed.  I think the US is going to increasingly have to come to grips with the idea of competing for jobs.  I'm not a fan of actually handing over money (or things like land) though, certainly not without rock solid guarantees in place.

[twa]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

I'd have to see the details to have an opinion.  In general though I agree with the idea that something is better than nothing, especially if that something means Americans employed.  I think the US is going to increasingly have to come to grips with the idea of competing for jobs.  I'm not a fan of actually handing over money (or things like land) though, certainly not without rock solid guarantees in place.

 

Quote

The Village of Mount Pleasant and Racine County, where the plant is to be built, have also agreed to provide $764 million in tax incentives to help get the facility constructed, including buying the land and giving it to Foxconn for free.

The state expects to spend about $400 million on road improvements, including adding two lanes to the nearby Interstate 94. And it's seeking $246 million more in federal money to help pay for the interstate expansion.

In addition, the local electric utility is upgrading its lines and adding substations to provide the necessary power that will be used by the plant, at a cost of $140 million. The cost of those projects will be paid by 5 million customers in the area.

About half the state's tax breaks depend upon how many workers Foxconn hires. While the state touts Foxconn's plans for 13,000 workers, the company has only committed to hiring 3,000 at this point.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/28/news/companies/foxconn-wisconsin-incentive-package/index.html

 

 

[Sticksboi05]

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

LOL!  All your sour grape talking points in hand.  You folks just don't have any empathy for the lunchpail guys and gals that are going to be excited about being able to support their families working in this new plant.  I guess you're people of privilege and look down your noses at those who are going to view this plant as the vehicle of their American dream.  No wonder you lost the election. 

 

Trump's auto tariffs could cost 600,000 jobs+ and the other tariffs are already costing people theirs. The national debt is also ballooning and will continue to.

 

This thread proves how gullible people are like when that travesty of a tax bill was passed and Fortune 100 firms gave out some one-time $500 checks as if that is the same as long-term economic prosperity. But of course the MAGAs were like SEE SEE SEE trickle down works, ignore the last 35 years...

 

Seriously it's not hard to see how Jim Jones got thousands of people down there in South America.

[Dan T.]

What Very Old Man doesn’t understand as he shills here for Donald Trump is that whatever Trump does or doesn’t do as President doesn’t cover for the fact that he is a despicable human being who built a career based on lying, who is the prime reason this country is so divided, who has alienated all of our closest allies while cozying up to the world’s worst despots, and who you wouldn’t dare leave alone with your daughter.

 

So who knows if the new Chinese plant in Wiconsin is a good deal. It’s beside the point.  Very Old Man is supporting a sociopathic, racist, pathological liar who has disgraced the U.S. 

[Larry]

55 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Yeah, he only created 17 million +

 

I guess that’s not satisfacotry.

 

51 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Boy, I know Obama bloated the federal government but I had no idea it was that bad, oh well Trump will clean up the mess!

 

Actually, looking at the data from BLS, I can't see data for all jobs, the data I use is their "total nonfarm" data, because I think that's the closest.  

 

Looking at "total nonfarm" data, and "total private" data (and assuming that the difference between the two is government employment), what I get is:  

 

From Feb '09 (when Obama took office) to Feb '17 (when Trump did), it looks like:  

 

Total nonfarm employment went up by 12.5M jobs

And private employment went up by 12.8M jobs

 

Looks like employment went up by 13M (not "17+"), and government employment went down.  

 

But what's that compared to our resident Trumpster trying to deny reality that he doesn't like, by trying to lie?  

 

[Larry]

25 minutes ago, twa said:

 

the locals are buying the land and giving tax exemptions 

Is it worth giving a corp you will then tax at a lower rate for a set period?

 

counting Billions that you would not be getting otherwise as 'costs' ignores realityt.

 

is a 1/3 of a pie better than no pie?.....but ya have to buy the flour to get it.

 

Ah.  I see we're in the land of "tax cuts don;t really cost money" again.  

 

I look forward to you pointing out that we don't need to cut social spending to pay for the increased deficit that the GOP's tax cuts didn't cost.  

[twa]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

Ah.  I see we're in the land of "tax cuts don;t really cost money" again.  

 

I look forward to you pointing out that we don't need to cut social spending to pay for the increased deficit that the GOP's tax cuts didn't cost.  

 

is it a tax cut in this case Larry?

 

How much tax revenue is coming from the land now?

How much from the employees and property that do not exist?

 

we need to cut social spending because it is out of hand and because of idiots that prefer money to be made elsewhere.

[Larry]

11 minutes ago, twa said:

 

(Article listing costs of the deal)

 

OK, so pretending that the entire amount of $764M (which the article describes as "tax incentives to help get the facility constructed, including buying the land and giving it to Foxconn for free." is in twa's "money that we pretend isn't money" category.  (Despite the fact that at least some of it is, you know, money being spent.), and just counting the other expenses listed as being the real costs, then I get a cost to the taxpayers of only $786M.  

 

Dividing that number by 3,000 jobs (the number which they actually claim they intend to hire), (and ignoring their documented history of promising to make big investments, to get sweet deals from taxpayers, and then not actually making the investment), then I get a "taxpayer cost per job" if $262,000.  

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, spjunkies said:

 

No no no. Many in your age group want the country to regress to what it used to be. I'm sorry to tell you that's not going to happen no matter how much people like you and your fearless leader want it to happen

 

 

I was wouldn’t count it out, remember how donald trump had no chance to win?  Let’s not get caught sleeping again...

 

 

 

 

 

Propping up asian companies and placing tariffs and fines on american companies that do business overseas isn’t maga to me.,.

[twa]

and how much do they get Larry?

 

how much does land values rise?

How much increased economic activity?

How much from from housing needed?

How much from the supplying the needs of thousands of new people?

How much govt tax revenue despite tax credits?

 

talking about recouping costs w/o the whole picture is being blind.

 

added

 here

http://wisconsintechnologycouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Noah-Williams-Foxconn-economic-analysis-8-21-17.pdf

 

Conclusion Foxconn has the potential to generate broad gains that go far beyond the direct job estimates and tax revenue costs which have dominated the recent discussion. But they are by no means certain – they require that high tech investment by Foxconn in Wisconsin would induce other firms to invest in the area, cause high productivity workers to relocate there, and lead current workers to improve their skills. In evaluating the Foxconn package, the uncertain but potentially large gains in jobs, wages, output, and incomes must be weighed against the certain fiscal costs.

 

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Boy, I know Obama bloated the federal government but I had no idea it was that bad, oh well Trump will clean up the mess!

Um, I know you don't care much for factual analysis, but Obama grew the federal government at only 1% / year, the slowest rate of increase of any postwar President.  By contrast, W increased federal spending by 7 1/2% / year - the fastest rate of any President since FDR - more than LBJ.

 

I am happy for future Foxconn workers, but one plant is hardly proof of a vast economic revival.

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, twa said:

and how much do they get Larry?

 

how much does land values rise?

How much increased economic activity?

How much from from housing needed?

How much from the supplying the needs of thousands of new people?

How much govt tax revenue despite tax credits?

 

talking about recouping costs w/o the whole picture is being blind.

 

 

 

 

Obviously, all of those numbers will go up by more than 10 times what the jobs actually pay.  Right?  

 

Meanwhile, there of course won't be any costs associated with this magical bounty, right?  

 

Those workers will all pay taxes, and will not expect any government from their taxes.  They won't, for example, need trash pickup, or police, or fire, or schools, or a health department.   The increased taxes will be pure profit, right? 

 

(And the company, which isn't paying any taxes?  They won't be getting any government services, either.  For example, when they lay off an employee, that employee won't get any unemployment.  The company won't need police or fire or EMS, either.  Right?  All the other businesses, well, they pay taxes.  But this one's special.)  

 

But yeah, if you're very careful about which things you count, and which ones you pretend don't exist, you can probably wind up, well, wherever it is that you are.  

 

"Whole picture".  

 

---

 

Edit:  

 

Me, I tend to believe that, while increased employment will result in increased tax revenues, it will also result in increased costs to the local government.  And that the increased costs of the workers will equal the increased revenues.  

 

(I base this on the fact that, right now, all of the employment in the county, combined, consume government services which are equal to the combined taxes paid by the workers and employers combined.)  

 

(However, if you really want to assert that well, these jobs will be different, and they will contribute hundreds of millions in tax revenues without consuming any tax expenditures whatsoever, unlike the behavior of all the other jobs, everywhere in the country, combined, please feel free to present said evidence.)  

 

 

 

[The Evil Genius]

FoxConn is probably the final death blow for Scott Walker. Sure..it costs a **** ton and will overrun by billions, but totally worth it for that alone.

[NoCalMike]

Without diving into the details of the Foxconn deal, on the surface it definitely looks like the Government basically bribed them with a lot of money and incentives to put a factory in Wisconsin.  We can call it whatever we want, but it is pretty blatantly corporate welfare. In other words Trump basically agreed to have the American taxpayers pay the salaries to workers of a private company.

 

Now, here is the question has Foxconn assured any kind of guarantees for the future (Or vice versa, has Trump convinced them that there is a deal in place to where they never pay a dime of local, state, or federal taxes?) like once the gov't teet well dries up they will start playing by the rules and paying taxes or is Wisconsin just a temporary stop while the operation is running on the government doll and as soon as that stops they are off to Mexico or Indonesia or wherever they can find cheaper labor and more "business friendly" laws?

 

Do I think it is a good thing that thousands of people will have a decent paying job to go to for probably the next couple of decades?  Sure, but if we're being honest and taking politics out of the equation, is this the business model we are all comfortable with for "creating jobs?"