Springfield Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 What responsible adult allows a gaggle of kids to walk around DC in maga hats? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, Springfield said: What responsible adult allows a gaggle of kids to walk around DC in maga hats? Ones from a red state, c'mon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Springfield said: What responsible adult allows a gaggle of kids to walk around DC in maga hats? Apparently a lot of them who let their kids visit dc on field trips. There were some reports that Maga hats were considered very trendy and popular among out of town youth in dc some time back. 5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: Ones from a red state, c'mon. To be more accurate, parents who enthusiastically support or encourage supporting Trump. Not all Red-Staters are Trump supporters and not all Trump supporters wear maga hats or have kids who wear maga hats. Edited January 23, 2019 by visionary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, visionary said: He and his buddies acted inappropriately and and like a gang of punks. Now they are just teenagers so they probably should be forgiven for doing it. But it’s hard to look past the behavior when they don’t akniwledge their mistakes. The blame should probably be centered on adults responsible for them though for likely encouraging this and not teaching them some humility and for allowing them to get into this situation in the first place. I still think it’s surprising no one got hurt. I think the preponderance of blame should be on the Media and on those who attacked the teenagers and Mr. Phillips (pretty viciously I'll add) on social media. Fortunately there are a few that have acknowledged their mistake, but most won't (including most who engaged in this behavior here). Edited January 23, 2019 by nonniey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said: Yeah, but what'd he do? Wore a hat that aligns himself with Trump? If he's not wearing that stupid hat, this isn't a conversation, @Llevron was right about that. What happened here, did anyone go home with a bloody nose? Black eyes? Cracked bones? Bad behavior, he didn't make an obscene gesture, he didn't say any bad words, racist words....what bad behavior? Look, I get it, he looks like an entitled prick. I'm not denying that, I think he probably is one. I think all those kids were pricks and as a matter of fact I don't think he's the worst kid on that video. But to get so aggravated that entitled pricks exist, specifically 16 year old entitled pricks and get caught on video with a SMIRK, I can't relate. I don't get the outrage, at least not to the level where people are calling for this kids head and he's gotta get an interview on the Today show to explain himself. But the kid was correct, he had every right to stand there, just as the Native American guy did. And I know that bothers you, but it's correct. He had every right to stand there. He didn't do anything violent, he didn't do anything harmful or obscene. And I know that angers the **** out of you, I'm curious as to why. Just cause he looks like a douche? The why relates to the second part of my post. It's the transference, the build-up, the meta behind these interactions that is occurring over and over again for certain groups of people without positive or constructive resolution. The emotions that arise from this interaction are not just about this single interaction. We react not just to the instance in front of us, but the personal history we have with similar instances which attenuate how we relate to the situation. That's biology, it's how our emotions and perceptions work. So, when our societal zietgist is filled with the perception (correct or not) of privileged people getting away with wrongs committed and the country feels like any semblance of justice is a sham for people in that class, it creates a pressure build-up. A pressure that arises in concordance with a sense of injustice that has a very potent impact on our feelings compared to other kinds of emotions. It leads to burn-out, disillusionment, and many other issues to a far greater degree and it also makes one highly susceptible the siren call of seeking come-uppance under the guise of self-righteousness. This is the environment a lot of people in this society find ourselves in. So when people who feel that way see that smirk, that hat, that manufactured outrage, that PR Firm Spin, and those Talking Points, the perception and what it represents are what people are viscerally reacting to (whether in an accurate way or not). Personally, I'm not as angry as I was when I first reacted to this story as it came out. I think the most badly behaving group were the Black Israelites based on what I've read and seen. However, I am angered by sheltered kids who get to lie and spin their way out of accountability. I am angry about this whole song and dance that repeats itself over and over again. Personally, I'm more angry about that former football player from Covington who is facing a rape charge after multiple past incidents were swept under the rug while he was a minor. I'm angry for all the girls who get raped by guys like that, who skate away on it. And it's not just because their white or republican. I feel that way about R Kelly and I feel that way about Bill Clinton if stories about his Boris Epstein escapades hold true. What I'm trying to say is I'm more angry about this systemic dynamic of privileged people getting away with ****, rather than this particular instance, which is as you say far down the rung on levels of immediate importance. A lot of people are I'd say, but we falter in the execution of that anger, because of how we've been primed and then individually based on the level of effort we put into the conclusions we are drawing from the context available. Edited January 23, 2019 by Fresh8686 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 The more yall respond the more i think the problem is that people are actually pay attention to this nonsense. Those kids didnt do anything but act like jerks for like an hour and its national news. I hate to be the guy talking about how everyone is talking too much about the thing im talking about and thats the problem but ima be that guy today lol 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, visionary said: He and his buddies acted inappropriately and and like a gang of punks. i think some of the kids, for sure, acted inappropriately. i always cringe when i see the tomohawk chop and chant, but, as long as it's allowed at braves and chiefs games, i'm sure it'll continue. i'm not sure the kid, sandmann, did anything wrong, per se, but i can see how his expression was interpreted as a douchey smirk. i'll give him credit for giving his friend the 'cut it out' hand gesture when one of the protesters was telling his friend to go back to europe- that actually looked like a smart, mature move. where i reassessed my original position was seeing who approached who. phillips got in the dudes face, literally inches from it, beating a drum. honestly, if the worst the kid did at that moment was smirk, he did far better than any of the adults i saw in the video. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Someone made a comment asking why Trump even commented on something so low-level like this, while being completely silent on Steve King, an actual elected official making racist remarks. At this point I think Trump literally retreats to his room to throw on Fox News all day in order to get his marching orders of what the issues of the day are. Also, I hope this is the last I have to say on the subject. I think the adults/chaperones/school officials have to be a little smarter about sending their students out into the world. MAGA hats have basically become troll attire. The kids were there for the march for life event, that alone could raise flags about why a political rally is being attended by students as a school event (nothing wrong if the kids went on their own time). So attending the rally representing their school aside, the MAGA hats themselves carry a lot of connotations, it doesn't mean that everyone who wears one agrees with every single hypothetical view of every other person wearing the hat, or even every single view of Trump himself, but to pretend like the MAGA hat is not a political statement of some sort at this point is just being dishonest with yourself. So with that said, you have to ask, are these kids wearing these hats because they are super informed and educated on all the issues and are looking to share their views with the world or is it more about being a troll. I think for the majority of teenagers it is simply trolling, and the adults from the school, chaperoning the trip etc etc....should have been able to recognize this and not allowed them. There was a pic being shared around supposedly of the principal/head chaplain (whatever you call the head of a catholic school?) with a huge Trump 2020 flag and captioned "suiting up and on our way." I have no idea if it is legit or not so I didn't bother to dig it up from the web and post it. If it is legit though, it explains a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said: The why relates to the second part of my post. It's the transference, the build-up, the meta behind these interactions that is occurring over and over again for certain groups of people without positive or constructive resolution. The emotions that arise from this interaction are not just about this single interaction. We react not just to the instance in front of us, but the personal history we have with similar instances which attenuate how we relate to the situation. That's biology, it's how our emotions and perceptions work. So, when our societal zietgist is filled with the perception (correct or not) of privileged people getting away with wrongs committed and the country feels like any semblance of justice is a sham for people in that class, it creates a pressure build-up. A pressure that arises in concordance with a sense of injustice that has a very potent impact on our feelings compared to other kinds of emotions. It leads to burn-out, disillusionment, and many other issues to a far greater degree and it also makes one highly susceptible the siren call of seeking come-uppance under the guise of self-righteousness. This is the environment a lot of people in this society find ourselves in. So when people who feel that way see that smirk, that hat, that manufactured outrage, that PR Firm Spin, and those Talking Points, the perception and what it represents are what people are viscerally reacting to (whether in an accurate way or not). Personally, I'm not as angry as I was when I first reacted to this story as it came out. I think the most badly behaving group were the Black Israelites based on what I've read and seen. However, I am angered by sheltered kids who get to lie and spin their way out of accountability. I am angry about this whole song and dance that repeats itself over and over again. Personally, I'm more angry about that former football player from Covington who is facing a rape charge after multiple past incidents were swept under the rug while he was a minor. I'm angry for all the girls who get raped by guys like that, who skate away on it. And it's not just because their white or republican. I feel that way about R Kelly and I feel that way about Bill Clinton if stories about his Boris Epstein escapades hold true. What I'm trying to say is I'm more angry about this systemic dynamic of privileged people getting away with ****, rather than this particular instance, which is as you say far down the rung on levels of immediate importance. A lot of people are I'd say, but we falter in the execution of that anger, because of how we've been primed and then individually based on the level of effort we put into the conclusions we are drawing from the context available. I get it. And that's a really good response. The disconnect for me is in what you describe as the being inn-accurate. People in position of power and privilege getting away with things sucks. But that's where I think our differences are...you say sheltered kids who get to lie and spin their way out of accountability and I'm asking, essentially, what's the big deal? Accountable for what non-crime committed? I totally agree with your statement, I prefer to save my outrage for someone like you mentioned, R Kelly, Bill Clinton, the Brock Turner ordeal...when someone gets murdered, raped, etc. Yeah, this kid is probably the prime example of someone who would be able to pull off a Brock Turner move but I'm not going to make any other assumption about him. I understand the perception surrounding this kid...and in this sole, specific situation I am just more saddened by the outrage it's caused, the fact that people are going WAY overboard for a 16 year olds douchey behavior and how this is dominating the news. I think some if it is a distraction from all things Trump and the shutdown which I also understand but...as you touched on, this is the zeitgeist of our time, part of it anyway. Privileged people get away with stuff, this is not new. But the other part of the zeitgeist (for me, at least) is the all-out rage that something as insignificant that this causes, the over the top tweets by adults who are JUST AS PRIVILEGED (some of which I posted earlier) or even more so than this kid is. 6 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: So attending the rally representing their school aside, the MAGA hats themselves carry a lot of connotations, it doesn't mean that everyone who wears one agrees with every single hypothetical view of every other person wearing the hat, or even every single view of Trump himself, but to pretend like the MAGA hat is not a political statement of some sort at this point is just being dishonest with yourself. So with that said, you have to ask, are these kids wearing these hats because they are super informed and educated on all the issues and are looking to share their views with the world or is it more about being a troll. I think for the majority of teenagers it is simply trolling, and the adults from the school, chaperoning the trip etc etc....should have been able to recognize this and not allowed them. I talked about this earlier, I'd see kids just like this at Pentagon City Mall on field trips, they'd be at the food court. There'd be a lot of MAGA hats and I could never tell if they were really pro-Trump or just trying to be jerks. I never bothered asked but it was weird to see. I lean towards trolling, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, NoCalMike said: the MAGA hats themselves carry a lot of connotations, it doesn't mean that everyone who wears one agrees with every single hypothetical view of every other person wearing the hat, Yes it does. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) Honestly , as a 16 year old if a Native American came up to me in a group beating his drum and singing, I’d probably start interacting in a way that I have seen through sporting events and other venues and not even second guess that I was doing anything wrong without understanding the position or knowing that it may be offensive. We used to do the tomahawk chop all the time at sporting events while the band played native music and it was fine. i Do wonder how many think what the kids did is offensive yet are perfectly ok with the redskins name and some of the dress-ups and songs playing and actions taken that would be deemed offensive to natives and how this aligns with the name change thread. Seems a bit hypocritical to me 🤷🏻♂️ Edited January 24, 2019 by steve09ru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) So I read the interview Phillips (the drummer) did with CNN and I’m having trouble squaring this with the video of what actually happened. Quote CNN: Were you trying to calm the situation down basically when you saw kind of things seemed to spiral out of control? Phillips: I think so. I think that was the push, that we need to use the drum, use our prayer and bring a balance, bring a calming to the situation. I didn't assume that I had any kind of power to do that, but at the same time, I didn't feel that I could just stand there anymore and not do something. It looked like these young men were going to attack these guys. They were going to hurt them. They were going to hurt them because they didn't like the color of their skin. They didn't like their religious views. They were just here in front of the Lincoln -- Lincoln is not my hero, but at the same time, there was this understanding that he brought the (Emancipation Proclamation) or freed the slaves, and here are American youth who are ready to, look like, lynch these guys. To be honest, they looked like they were going to lynch them. They were in this mob mentality. Where were their parents? Because they were obvious a student group. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/nathan-phillips-maga-teens-interview/index.html Watch the video yourself and pay attention to the interaction between the black Israelites and the maga teens, does the above match what you saw? Edited January 24, 2019 by Destino 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Destino said: So I read the interview Phillips (the drummer) did with CNN and I’m having trouble squaring this with the video of what actually happened. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/nathan-phillips-maga-teens-interview/index.html Watch the video yourself and pay attention to the interaction between the black Israelites and the maga teens, does the above matches what you see? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDibbs31 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Destino said: So I read the interview Phillips (the drummer) did with CNN and I’m having trouble squaring this with the video of what actually happened. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/nathan-phillips-maga-teens-interview/index.html Watch the video yourself and pay attention to the interaction between the black Israelites and the maga teens, does the above match what you saw? Mind. Blown. Phillips is obviously delusional. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Those kids are brats who had a PR firm spin their douchey behavior and use a ****ing bot army to brigade the social media conversation about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/viral-clash-students-and-native-americans-explained/580906/ Quote Film and photography purport to capture events as they really took place in the world, so it’s always tempting to take them at their word. But when multiple videos present multiple possible truths, which one is to be believed? Given the new footage, some, such as the libertarian outlet Reason, said the students were “wildly mischaracterized.” Others, such as The Washington Post, tried to cast the matter more neutrally, concluding that the aftermath “seemed to capture the worst of America at a moment of extreme political polarization.” But rather than drawing conclusions about who was vicious or righteous—or lamenting the political miasma that makes the question unanswerable—it might be better to stop and look at how film footage constructs rather than reflects the truths of a debate like this one. Despite the widespread creation and dissemination of video online, people still seem to believe that cameras depict the world as it really is; the truth comes from finding the right material from the right camera. That idea is mistaken, and it’s bringing forth just as much animosity as the polarization that is thought to produce the conflicts cameras record. more at link 2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Those kids are brats who had a PR firm spin their douchey behavior and use a ****ing bot army to brigade the social media conversation about it. I think all three parties involved are disingenuous arses. Edited January 24, 2019 by Zguy28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, Zguy28 said: I think all three parties involved are disingenuous arses. I thought that obvious since they were all protesters/activists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 These kids have no idea what Make America Great Again even means. They have no idea what a great America even is. They’ve experienced NOTHING. For many of them, this is the greatest that America will ever be (because their lives will turn to **** after the leave high school). These are post 9/11 babies who are historically oblivious. The only reason for them to wear a maga hat is to inflame tensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 9 hours ago, Destino said: So I read the interview Phillips (the drummer) did with CNN and I’m having trouble squaring this with the video of what actually happened. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/nathan-phillips-maga-teens-interview/index.html Watch the video yourself and pay attention to the interaction between the black Israelites and the maga teens, does the above match what you saw? Look at the way CNN lead him to that **** too. They are trash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Those kids are brats who had a PR firm spin their douchey behavior and use a ****ing bot army to brigade the social media conversation about it. BS moves at the speed of fiber cable now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Zguy28 said: I think all three parties involved are disingenuous arses. I think you're right. But only one of them has Mitch McConnell's PR firm working for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 If you are a teenager, putting on a MAGA hat is likely just a troll job accessory. Add to the fact they are a group of around 100 or so and it adds to the feeling of invincibility. Sounds like the initial confrontation was between the students and the black israelites, yeah? I didn't see smiley kid get up into any of their personal space. He knew there was no danger "standing his ground" in front of Phillips. It was just a kid being a smart-ass but with the self awareness to know not to put himself into any legit dangerous confrontation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, NoCalMike said: He knew there was no danger "standing his ground" in front of Phillips. It was just a kid being a smart-ass but with the self awareness to know not to put himself into any legit dangerous confrontation. I think the maga hat (and his expression) is clearly offputting and immediately triggers a reaction- it does in me, and I try to do my best to look at it without prejudice and not have my interpretation tainted by emotion. The hat and facial expression clearly affects how we see the interaction and is unquestionably why most people had the initial reaction to the first, short video. So I’m trying to check myself and I’m thinking of it like this- If a Trump supporter with a maga hat was beating a drum, wandered into the middle of a large group of Native Americans and right up into the space and face of a native American, beating the drum inches from his face, would we say that the Native American was being a smartass and should have gotten out of his way? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, grego said: So I’m trying to check myself and I’m thinking of it like this- If a Trump supporter with a maga hat was beating a drum, wandered into the middle of a large group of Native Americans and right up into the space and face of a native American, beating the drum inches from his face, would we say that the Native American was being a smartass and should have gotten out of his way? For me it mostly just comes down to him being a dumb teenager, as was I in a lot of ways. If the kid would have been yelling at him, saying something racist, or thrown punches that of course would change things, but at the end of the day he was simply being a jerk-y teen with little self awareness. I don't put as much weight into a teenager wearing a MAGA hat as I would if say one of the teachers or chaperones showed up on video doing the same thing wearing a MAGA hat. If a camera followed me around when I was that age it would likely capture me being a smart ass and ****y and all that jazz in certain situations too. I am not absolving the kid, just trying to put things into perspective. I'll save the outrage for when he enrolls in Georgetown prep and starts spiking drinks. Edited January 24, 2019 by NoCalMike 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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