Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[Springfield]

Those MAGA ****es are gonna be all up in his DM’s after he goes on TV.

[nonniey]

Nicholas Sandmann?  I thought they said his name was Emmanuel Goldstein?

Edited January 23, 2019 by nonniey

[visionary]

I assume there must be more to this conversation than this...not sure I want to hear it though.

 

 

[grego]

Blue/black vs gold/white dress

Yanni/laurel 

Ben Affleck/Sam Harris on real time 

Google memo 

 

It's fascinating to me how two people see the same thing, but interpret things not just slightly differently, but, virtually, the polar opposite of each other. And how you see the latter two, along with this fiasco, is reliably predicted, with few exceptions, by where you stand politically. 

 

[nonniey]

Well since I guess i was too clever by half in my last post (no one seemed to get the reference). I'll post this interesting article I found to clarify it.

 

The Week: How Twitter could be the death of liberal democracy: 

 

https://theweek.com/articles/818951/how-twitter-could-death-liberal-democracy

 

"This has been a deeply demoralizing week for American media and democratic culture — one with implications that may well point to something far worse.

First, on Thursday night, Buzzfeed published a sensational scoop alleging that President Trump suborned the perjury of his former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen. As dozens of reputable media outlets and many more media personalities on Twitter pronounced over the following day, this was an act that if true would be a very big deal. The unverified character of the allegation did nothing to keep a slew of commentators from suggesting that the president was now on the verge of facing near-certain impeachment and removal from office for his crimes. Yet on Friday night, the story suffered a severe body blow when Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office issued a sweeping statement disputing its accuracy.

Then, on Saturday, a video appeared on Twitter purporting to show a group of high schoolers confronting and mocking an elderly Native American protestor and Vietnam veteran while wearing MAGA hats at Friday's pro-life March for Life in Washington. By early Saturday afternoon, this video had inspired frantic spasms of denunciation on Twitter — of the indisputably racist teenagers, of their obviously bigoted Catholic school in Kentucky, of the transparently misogynistic and hate-filled pro-life movement, and indeed of anyone who dares to wear a MAGA hat in public.

 

The main teenager featured in the video was treated as the face of entitled white supremacy, his smile (or smirk) as he faced the counter-protester serving as proof that he is the direct successor to the bigots who stood against the Civil Right Movement. Even after longer, fuller videos of the confrontation emerged, showing that the import of the event was far less clear-cut than the initial hot takes assumed, the tweet-mob continued to eviscerate the high schoolers, pronouncing their faces worthy of a good punch.

Neither of these events is very important in the grand scheme of things. The former will either be vindicated or buried by the report Mueller eventually files about possible collusion between the 2016 Trump campaign and elements of the Russian government. The latter will be lost and forgotten under a mountain of other outrages that will continue to convulse the country through the Trump era and beyond.

Yet both are indicative of something ominous that's happening to our political culture. Extreme partisan polarization is combining with the technology of social media, and especially Twitter, to provoke a form of recurrent political madness among members of the country's cultural and intellectual elite. And that madness, when combined with the rising extremism of the populist right, is pushing the country toward a dangerously illiberal forms of politics........"

[The Evil Genius]

I see some still believe that the douchebag kids from Covington Catholic are innocent. 

[nonniey]

18 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

I see some still believe that the douchebag kids from Covington Catholic are innocent. 

I see some are still stuck in their 2 minutes (Emmanuel Goldstein -1984 reference). Did you even read the article?

Edited January 23, 2019 by nonniey

[The Evil Genius]

Except the state run propoganda machine hails those douchebags as innocent. So, not a good comparison.

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, grego said:

Blue/black vs gold/white dress

Yanni/laurel 

Ben Affleck/Sam Harris on real time 

Google memo 

 

It's fascinating to me how two people see the same thing, but interpret things not just slightly differently, but, virtually, the polar opposite of each other. And how you see the latter two, along with this fiasco, is reliably predicted, with few exceptions, by where you stand politically. 

 

 

I still cant quite understand why that is though. Has it always been like this and its just more obvious because of social media? I feel like I blame everything these days on social media and im not sure if thats right or not. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

No one sane actually believes in their heart that the Cov Cath kids were victims of circumstance or felt threatened or were “saying a silent prayer”. It’s just a spin job blasting forth from the echo chamber designed to muddy the waters and troll the libs.

 

Just as no one sane actually believes the “Pelosi voted for the wall a few years back but won’t now because Trump”narrative.*  But folks still roll into the budget thread and try to re-sell it nearly every day.

 

Consume.

Regurgitate.

Repeat.

 

There is safety in the herd.

 

*Could use about a zillion other examples...Clinton Death List, Benghazi, prayer rugs at the border, etc

[nonniey]

6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Except the state run propoganda machine hails those douchebags as innocent. So, not a good comparison.

So I guess the answer is no you didn't read it.

[The Evil Genius]

10 minutes ago, nonniey said:

So I guess the answer is no you didn't read it.

 

It's been 30 years so I had to go back and look him up again. I get your reference now. Mea culpa.

 

Does this mean you recognize that the Covington kids aren't innocent in this? Or do you still believe 2+2=5? 😁

Edited January 23, 2019 by The Evil Genius

[Llevron]

"Death of liberal democracy" is about as much of a exaggeration as anything else honestly. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 hours ago, visionary said:

I assume there must be more to this conversation than this...not sure I want to hear it though.

 

 

He meant that he is a very fine person.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Zguy28]

The more these stories come out, the more I feel like our culture (expressed through platforms like Twitter) is just the Hatfield's and McCoy's on a enormous scale. Or each is like a xenophobic hick town, but with millions of residents...

[Chachie]

5 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

The more these stories come out, the more I feel like our culture (expressed through platforms like Twitter) is just the Hatfield's and McCoy's on a enormous scale. Or each is like a xenophobic hick town, but with millions of residents...

 

 

I very much agree with you, sir. It's just that those damned Hatfields are burning this world to cinders.

[grego]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

I still cant quite understand why that is though. Has it always been like this and its just more obvious because of social media? I feel like I blame everything these days on social media and im not sure if thats right or not. 

 

youre exactly right- social media plays a huge role. race stories are currently hot topics, so every story that might be race related will get pushed, because clicks. 

 

no, it hasnt always been like this. this chart below tracks political polarization over the last 20 plus years. instead of interacting like a regular conversation online, people form groups and tribes. social media plays a role in that, even causing us to think twice before we like a post or tweet, lest anyone get the wrong idea about us- you dont want to be in the wrong, bad group, you want to be in the good virtuous group. social media is believed to be a huge factor in the rise in teen suicide among young women. getting news from social media (sometimes its just stories that confirm what we want or believe to be true) is not good, as opposed to looking at a variety of different sources from different political angles. 

 

i think the future is bleak unless we figure it out.

 

http://www.people-press.org/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by grego

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

It's been 30 years so I had to go back and look him up again. I get your reference now. Mea culpa.

 

Does this mean you recognize that the Covington kids aren't innocent in this? Or do you still believe 2+2=5? 😁

Innocent of what? Just asking that shows you are part of the problem that Mr Linker is describing. 

 

"....In 1984, George Orwell famously described a totalitarian political order in which people were kept as docile subjects in part by a daily ritual called "Two Minutes Hate" in which the population directs all of its pent up fury at "Goldstein," a possibly fictional enemy of the state.

Thanks to Twitter, we now know that the same dynamic can arise spontaneously, with fresh ire directed at a new manifestation of the partisan enemy nearly every day. It shows us that under certain circumstances — our circumstances — people can and will fasten onto an endless succession of real-life Goldsteins for the sheer, addictive joy of it — for the pure, delirious pleasure of denouncing manifestations of evil in our midst. Nothing, it seems, is quite as satisfying as singling out our fellow citizens for their moral failings and indulging in fantasies of their fully justified punishment....."

[Spaceman Spiff]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2019/01/23/nick-nicholas-sandmann-today-show-interview-savannah-guthrie-twitter/2655420002/

 

I think @Llevron is right.  Social media, specifically twitter, is probably a bad thing.  I mean, here's an article with peoples responses on twitter to the interview this morning (which I haven't watched...yet).

 

Really, this is like a 9/11 moment?  

 

 

Owes America an apology?  What the ****?  For what, asking a kid some questions?  Why are people SOOOOOOOOOO DRAMATIC?

 

What did they expect, her to just bound this kid to a chair, hang a lightbulb over his head and grill him until he cried?  I think that's the only way some people would be happy here.  

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I unretract my “I hate the world” statement from two days ago.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

I still cant quite understand why that is though. Has it always been like this and its just more obvious because of social media? I feel like I blame everything these days on social media and im not sure if thats right or not. 

 

Social media combined with the fact that everyone carries a video camera with them at all times.

 

If someone tried to explain to me what happened on the Mall last weekend, using their words and their memory, I would just stare at them blankly and wait for them to leave.  Catching it on camera makes it's explosion via social media possible.  

[Fresh8686]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 I think that's the only way some people would be happy here.  

 

I think people would be happy if that 17 year old young man showed some self reflection and accountability by accepting responsibility for his douchy behavior. People are tired of these people with PR Firms and privilege peddling bull****. People are tired of fake outrage being the cover for people to continue with bad behavior.

There never seems to be any closure with these kinds of situations and that builds and builds for people creating a transference of emotion when the next instance arises and the same old **** happens all over again.




 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I unretract my “I hate the world” statement from two days ago.

 

The more **** like this happens, the more I just want to go live on top of a mountain in a cabin with no internet access and just hunt for my own food and get away from people as much as I can.  

 

I'm totally aware of how that sounds, rest assured I'm not gonna pull a Kaczynski and write a manifesto and send package bombs...but man, I just want to get away from people.  Read some books, hunt some deer, grow some veggies and be left alone.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

I think people would be happy if that 17 year old young man showed some self reflection and accountability by accepting responsibility for his douchy behavior. People are tired of these people with PR Firms and privilege peddling bull****. People are tired of fake outrage being the cover for people to continue with bad behavior.

There never seems to be any closure with these kinds of situations and that builds and builds for people creating a transference of emotion when the next instance arises and the same old **** happens all over again.




 

 

Yeah, but what'd he do?  Wore a hat that aligns himself with Trump?  If he's not wearing that stupid hat, this isn't a conversation, @Llevron was right about that.

 

What happened here, did anyone go home with a bloody nose?  Black eyes?  Cracked bones?  Bad behavior, he didn't make an obscene gesture, he didn't say any bad words, racist words....what bad behavior?  

 

Look, I get it, he looks like an entitled prick.  I'm not denying that, I think he probably is one.   I think all those kids were pricks and as a matter of fact I don't think he's the worst kid on that video.  But to get so aggravated that entitled pricks exist, specifically 16 year old entitled pricks and get caught on video with a SMIRK, I can't relate.  I don't get the outrage, at least not to the level where people are calling for this kids head and he's gotta get an interview on the Today show to explain himself.  

 

But the kid was correct, he had every right to stand there, just as the Native American guy did.  And I know that bothers you, but it's correct.  He had every right to stand there.  He didn't do anything violent, he didn't do anything harmful or obscene.  And I know that angers the **** out of you, I'm curious as to why.  Just cause he looks like a douche?  

[visionary]

He and his buddies acted inappropriately and and like a gang of punks.  Now they are just teenagers so they probably should be forgiven for doing it.  But it’s hard to look past the behavior when they don’t akniwledge their mistakes.  The blame should probably be centered on adults responsible for them though for likely encouraging this and not teaching them some humility and for allowing them to get into this situation in the first place.  I still think it’s surprising no one got hurt.

Edited January 23, 2019 by visionary