Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, grego said:

 

So I’m trying to check myself and I’m thinking of it like this- If a Trump supporter with a maga hat was beating a drum, wandered into the middle of a large group of Native Americans and right up into the space and face of a native American, beating the drum inches from his face, would we say that the Native American was being a smartass and should have gotten out of his way?

 

 

Good POV. No, we wouldnt. 

 

But lets change it up a bit and say it was a group of face tattooed Mexican-ish teens standing idle with we hate Trump signs or whatever and a white male walked up to them with a microphone yelling about building walls. And these Mexican-ish teens started yelling and gesturing towards him with scary hand signs. Would everyone be saying that the white male in the scenario should have just let them alone? 

 

The answer is obviously all these factors play a part. Im not disagreeing or anything I just like expanding on your pov here. 

[Chachie]

I'm pretty sure that ANY large group of teenagers who find themselves free of parental supervision (be it conservative, liberal, etc.) are going to act like a-holes.

 

 

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, Chachie said:

I'm pretty sure that ANY large group of teenagers who find themselves free of parental supervision (be it conservative, liberal, etc.) are going to act like a-holes.

 

 

 

I can be like that now and im 30ish >_> 

[grego]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Good POV. No, we wouldnt. 

 

But lets change it up a bit and say it was a group of face tattooed Mexican-ish teens standing idle with we hate Trump signs or whatever and a white male walked up to them with a microphone yelling about building walls. And these Mexican-ish teens started yelling and gesturing towards him with scary hand signs. Would everyone be saying that the white male in the scenario should have just let them alone? 

 

The answer is obviously all these factors play a part. Im not disagreeing or anything I just like expanding on your pov here. 

 

i agree with that. for me, like i said before, my perspective changed when you saw phillips as the 'aggressor'- i dont really want to use that word, but phillips was the one who went into the groups if kids and approached the kid. my initial impression was that it was the other way around, probably because of the hat, the fact that its a kid vs an older gentleman, a white kid vs a native american, a taller kid vs a smaller man, and probably the kids expression, which i'm willing to say i may have misinterpreted. 

 

had the kid walked up to phillips that closely while philips was beating his drum, i'd feel completely different and probably wouldnt have cared if phillips smacked him on his head. 

[LD0506]

[capcrunch98]

21 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 I think the most badly behaving group were the Black Israelites based on what I've read and seen.
 

 

Trust me, any time there's a conflict and the Black Israelites are involved, it's safe to assume they're "the most badly behaving group".  I'm not absolving Phillips and the teens, as they both could've handled things differently, but the Black Israelites are as hateful, provoking, and trashy as any group you'll ever see.  I had the pleasure of passing by them on a regular basis when I worked in Chinatown and they would always set up shop on the sidewalk to spew their garbage, single out pedestrians who fit onto their very long list of people they despise, and openly muse about raping white and asian women and killing their babies.  Below is an image of one of many "thought-provoking" signs they display.  If I didn't know any better I'd say these a-holes are on Putin's payroll to stoke the flames of America's racial divide.

 

 

[LD0506]

[Fresh8686]

 

 
Thought this fit the current topic somewhat.

[youngestson]

2 hours ago, Chachie said:

I'm pretty sure that ANY large group of teenagers who find themselves free of parental supervision (be it conservative, liberal, etc.) are going to act like a-holes.

 

 

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner!!!!!

 

Those stupid MAGA hats were simultaneously lightening rods and armor for those kids. 

No hats, and maybe a 100th of the attention would have landed on them along with a LOT less vitriol. I know I really got excessively angry at them.

On the other hand, those hats also ensured that they'd be as enabled as a rich kid by a sizable chunk of the population. Completely let off the hook-cleared of all wrong doing-what about Hillary's emails. 

 

The correct response was in fact, "wow those kids are acting like jackwagons. See that other kids? Don't act like them." 

 

Perfectly good teaching moment lost. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by youngestson
Fat finger spelling issues.

[grego]

16 hours ago, Destino said:

So I read the interview Phillips (the drummer) did with CNN and I’m having trouble squaring this with the video of what actually happened.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/nathan-phillips-maga-teens-interview/index.html

 

Watch the video yourself and pay attention to the interaction between the black Israelites and the maga teens, does the above match what you saw?  

 

He has claimed to be a 'Vietnam vet', 'in theater' (he's also said 'Vietnam times vet', Vietnam vet times' and 'Vietnam Era vet') , but he was never in Vietnam. 

 

That's not good. 

[visionary]

 

[Destino]

4 hours ago, Llevron said:

But lets change it up a bit and say it was a group of face tattooed Mexican-ish teens standing idle with we hate Trump signs or whatever and a white male walked up to them with a microphone yelling about building walls. And these Mexican-ish teens started yelling and gesturing towards him with scary hand signs. Would everyone be saying that the white male in the scenario should have just let them alone?

 

Yes.  Physically confronting a large group of teens and antagonizing them is a terribly stupid thing to do.  Even if the teens are entirely in the wrong and in the act of behaving badly, that's still a unwise and unsafe course of action. 

[NoCalMike]

That article on the MAGA hat is the point I was making in the other thread about the Covington kids.   The MAGA hat means whatever the person wearing it wants it to means.  If I see teenagers wearing it my initial reaction is to assume they are just trolling, they are looking to get a rise out of people.  Now of course they could just be trying to bait people into stupidly overreacting which plenty do, but most of them are not walking around with a MAGA hat because they want to sit down over coffee and talk politics. 

[nonniey]

Food for thought from The Atlantic

The Media Botched the Covington Catholic Story: And the damage to their credibility will be lasting.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/media-must-learn-covington-catholic-story/581035/

 

"....By Saturday, the story had become so hot, and the appetite for it so deep, that some news outlets felt compelled to do some actual reporting. This was when the weekend began to take a long, bad turn for respected news outlets and righteous celebrities. Journalists began to discover that the viral video was not, in fact, the Zapruder film of 2019, and that there were other videos—lots and lots of them—that showed the event from multiple perspectives and that explained more clearly what had happened. At first the journalists and their editors tried to patch the revelations onto the existing story, in hopes that the whole thing would somehow hold together. CNN, apparently by now aware that the event had taken place within a complicating larger picture, tried to use the new information to support its own biased interpretation, sorrowfully reporting that early in the afternoon the boys had clashed with “four African American young men preaching about the Bible and oppression...."

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by visionary

[Jumbo]

per the atlantic article on smirk-face (yes, i think that's an accurate label) and thinking of all the press being laid off in the news recently...

 

 

having seen way more coverage than it mattered to me, regarding the catholic school maggot-hat wearing young'uns out there politiking for christ, and honoring their tradition of protecting the unborn and the molesters of the already-born...

 

i think there's more wrong/stupid on the "defend the boyz/attack the lib media" side than not, but certainly "the mainstream media"  has real flaws to address in the coverage....the need for them to do their best possible in sourcing/verifying, even under duress, is a serious obligation always, but especially in these particular times....

 

i give them credit in that i usually do see the msm taking regular inventory, correcting itself, taking their lumps, and even administering them to themselves....still, there's lots of room and need to improve...

 

this doesn't counter my view that the news media in large in this country is downright awesome in a good way

 

overall i think they do outstanding work and i do cut some slack given the conditions---the pace of news, the nautre of it---so many big events and these seem to be particularly lively times across the globe news-wise....having a historically frenetic, erratic, admin and supporting goper party, also featuring a historic level of mad-dog spinning, pure delusion, baldfaced lies, and every form of deception extant as routine daily behaviors adds a lot of obstacles of course...still, reporters and outlets need to be held accountable and that should be the deal no matter which wing of the dodo bird said media are identified with by whoever 

 

 

 

which brings me to this

 

 

 

the watchdogs of the right  might want to work just a teeny bit on thinning the lumberyard of beams in their own eyes as opposed to being fixated on the relative motes in the "msm"

 

say, for instance, addressing the same issues of veracity in:

 

fox news

 

right wing radio

 

britebart

 

infowars

 

 

try holding those who serve up that brand of sewage with such bubbly-brain obsession to the same standards

 

rightsiders going on about media bias has become a whiny tradition but it's exclusively about "msm" failings

 

and trotting out the impotent line of "but that part of fox and those other platforms are just entertainment" is a major fail in trying to "excuse yourself" with smart folk....so to  "traditional republicans", keep playing it, keep "worrying" about how "unfair" the "msm" covers you as you see it...

 

because your blindness to the uselessness of that shtick and your decades long denial of, or reluctance to, root out the various vile forms of bigotry so common among what seems to be a majority of your party, are a couple of the major reason why some of you are sitting around wondering how your party became the trump-centric, perhaps terminally diseased, ****pile it is now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Powerful, highly-connected PR firm greases pundit palms for thoughtful op-eds decrying lack of accountability and accuracy in liberal MSM.

 

Right-wing guy posts op-ed with no sense of irony whatsoever.

[Destino]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Powerful, highly-connected PR firm greases pundit palms for thoughtful op-eds decrying lack of accountability and accuracy in liberal MSM.

 

Right-wing guy posts op-ed with no sense of irony whatsoever.

I don’t think the PR firm played much of a role in this entire story falling apart.  It was the two hour video that challenged Nathan Phillips recollection of events and the media’s narrative.  The media had a choice to either stand on their obviously mistaken view of events, or back peddle and try to save face.

[Spaceman Spiff]

40 minutes ago, Destino said:

I don’t think the PR firm played much of a role in this entire story falling apart.  It was the two hour video that challenged Nathan Phillips recollection of events and the media’s narrative.  The media had a choice to either stand on their obviously mistaken view of events, or back peddle and try to save face.

 

I think people that are whining about the PR firm are jealous that they couldn't do that for their kid, if their kid did something that was ultimately meaningless and was getting vilified in the press for it.  

 

"These rich uppity white people who are conservative jerks HIRED A PR FIRM!!!  Rich white conservatives are the WORST!  Look at the lengths they'll go to!"

[visionary]

 

[Berggy9598]

Had to spend a day in the Garden Cityarea  on a recruiting trip. Desolate area miles away from any interstate highway with scattered uncincorporated towns. Minor miracle this plot reached law enforcement before it was too late. 

[nonniey]

22 hours ago, Jumbo said:

per the atlantic article on smirk-face (yes, i think that's an accurate label) and thinking of all the press being laid off in the news recently...

 

 

having seen way more coverage than it mattered to me, regarding the catholic school maggot-hat wearing young'uns out there politiking for christ, and honoring their tradition of protecting the unborn and the molesters of the already-born...

 

i think there's more wrong/stupid on the "defend the boyz/attack the lib media" side than not, but certainly "the mainstream media"  has real flaws to address in the coverage....the need for them to do their best possible in sourcing/verifying, even under duress, is a serious obligation always, but especially in these particular times....

 

i give them credit in that i usually do see the msm taking regular inventory, correcting itself, taking their lumps, and even administering them to themselves....still, there's lots of room and need to improve...

 

this doesn't counter my view that the news media in large in this country is downright awesome in a good way

 

overall i think they do outstanding work and i do cut some slack given the conditions---the pace of news, the nautre of it---so many big events and these seem to be particularly lively times across the globe news-wise....having a historically frenetic, erratic, admin and supporting goper party, also featuring a historic level of mad-dog spinning, pure delusion, baldfaced lies, and every form of deception extant as routine daily behaviors adds a lot of obstacles of course...still, reporters and outlets need to be held accountable and that should be the deal no matter which wing of the dodo bird said media are identified with by whoever 

 

 

 

which brings me to this

 

 

 

the watchdogs of the right  might want to work just a teeny bit on thinning the lumberyard of beams in their own eyes as opposed to being fixated on the relative motes in the "msm"

 

say, for instance, addressing the same issues of veracity in:

 

fox news

 

right wing radio

 

britebart

 

infowars

 

 

try holding those who serve up that brand of sewage with such bubbly-brain obsession to the same standards

 

rightsiders going on about media bias has become a whiny tradition but it's exclusively about "msm" failings

 

and trotting out the impotent line of "but that part of fox and those other platforms are just entertainment" is a major fail in trying to "excuse yourself" with smart folk....so to  "traditional republicans", keep playing it, keep "worrying" about how "unfair" the "msm" covers you as you see it...

 

because your blindness to the uselessness of that shtick and your decades long denial of, or reluctance to, root out the various vile forms of bigotry so common among what seems to be a majority of your party, are a couple of the major reason why some of you are sitting around wondering how your party became the trump-centric, perhaps terminally diseased, ****pile it is now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO many on this board have fallen into this spiral. What he writes up is a bit depressing especially for those of us that have to put up with both the Cult of Trump and the resistance mob. 

 

Andrew Sullivan (Like the Atlantic another bastion of right wing thinking - ok he does call himself a conservative).

"......There’s a reason why, in the crucial battle for the legitimacy of a free press, Trump is still on the offensive. Our mainstream press has been poisoned by tribalism. My own trust in it is eroding. I’m far from the only one.

The other night I was having a drink with a friend who said he believed that the Trump threat was essentially over, as the shutdown took its toll. He noted what might become an inflection point in the polling. He was heartened by the midterms. He might be right. But I think that misses the core point about this presidency. From my perspective, the Trump threat to liberal democracy is deepening, largely because its racial animus and rank tribalism are evoking a response that is increasingly imbued with racial animus and rank tribalism, in an ever-tightening spiral of mutual hostility......"

 

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/andrew-sullivan-the-abyss-of-hate-versus-hate.html

[NoCalMike]

I have no issue with holding "MSM" accountable for their errors and demanding they strive to do a better job covering stories and maybe stick to more relevant topics overall and/or gain a better perspective of what justifies round the clock coverage versus what could be summed up in a 2 minute blip (if covered at all), however that isn't what right wing media is doing.  They aren't interested in discourse or being balanced, their goal is strictly to push right-wing narratives and POVs whenever they can and sometimes they take it even further and merely look to implement poison pills onto the airwaves.  The Mueller investigation is a good example.  Fox is not interested in looking at this thing objectively, quite the contrary, 10 minutes of watching FOX and they seem much more interested in keeping people uninformed about it entirely.

 

 

[Llevron]

But I cannot take a conversation seriously that calls for the liberal media to correct its flaws and fails to hold the conservative media to even half of that standard. Its an ridiculously stupid argument when you actually take a look at it. And when you dont mention that when trying to make your argument about the media it makes you look stupid, or dishonest or both. And on top of that, much of the time the same people bemoaning the media lying or being wrong are the same people backing Trump. Who literally lies every time he speaks. About anything. I cannot look past that. 

 

I dont think any of you are stupid or dishonest right now so dont let that make you defensive. I didn't mean it as an attack. 

 

 

EDIT: Easy example. Listen to this. Its easily all opinion. But she presents it as facts and with the most obvious slant ever. Shes horribad at this. But these folks that watch it believe it. 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Llevron

[TheGreatBuzz]

13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

fails to hold the conservative media to even half of that standard

That's because [sane] people don't consider conservative media to be news.  They know it is a clown show so it gets ignored.  For the most part, conservative based news doesn't exist.  The moderate to left-leaning news organizations at least have some morals so they get critisizm when deserved.  

 

I view "conservative news" kinda like I view religion; it's a bunch of madeup stories used to make you fear things you really have no need fearing and it is used to fill their coffers by always getting you to look in another direction.  And some of the top people have committed sexually based crimes all the while telling everyone how evil everyone else is.