Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[bobandweave]

8 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

You are in no position to lecture others in my opinion you seemed to be especially butt hurt that Griffin was a bust dogged Cousins, I think you were 1 of Kirk’s harsh critics on the board.  I am all for letting Cousins go and supporting Smith, I started this thread to encourage that sentiment but stop the hollier than thou stuff.

 

Oh please show me what I feel about Griffin, I didn’t like the trade and dont fall into the group that thinks he was anything special. You got me messed up with that. 

 

As for my critical view of KC my feelings for him changed over the years. And no I’m not critical of KC I simply speak my mind about him not fixing the many serious issues he has.

 

And in no way was I lecturing anyone. You seemed to have messed up most of all of my positions about these players while trashing my name in the process with untrue statements. Trifecta of fail in one post. I am only speaking my mind like everyone else here does, and sharing my opinions sorry you can’t comprehend them but please don’t put words in my mouth like that again. Peace

[SWFLSkins]

Meanwhile Alex like........

..

[HardcoreZorn]

 

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

Nah, not this time. And don't worry, I'll keep pounding you when you're wrong.

I would be fascinated to see you try and pull that quote. You have me mixed up with someone else.

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Welcome to the Big City, as my mom used to say.

Rock on bro.

 

@skinny21 that's fair. At least you take the time to understand what I'm asking. It was really about the merit of using advanced statistics to prove a point. I think like anything, need to be taken in context.

[NoCalMike]

The other thing is Alex Smith only had 8 pass attempts in the game.  That seems low compared to a lot of the other starting QBs in the league.  8 passes hardly seems enough to make any kind of judgement on. 

 

I actually wondered to myself why Gruden seemed to pull him so quick.  Overall Gruden doesn't seem to be much of a fan of the starting QB playing too much in the preseason, even the third/dress rehearsal game.  Does this mean the QB will be a little more rusty come Week 1?  Hard to say.  Cousins always seemed to have a habit of not looking like his best self until a month into the season, but it was hard to gauge whether that was just a Cousins trait or if Gruden shared some of the fault due to limiting his snaps in preseason.   We will find out in a couple weeks.

[Veryoldschool]

7 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The other thing is Alex Smith only had 8 pass attempts in the game.  That seems low compared to a lot of the other starting QBs in the league.  8 passes hardly seems enough to make any kind of judgement on. 

 

I actually wondered to myself why Gruden seemed to pull him so quick.  Overall Gruden doesn't seem to be much of a fan of the starting QB playing too much in the preseason, even the third/dress rehearsal game.  Does this mean the QB will be a little more rusty come Week 1?  Hard to say.  Cousins always seemed to have a habit of not looking like his best self until a month into the season, but it was hard to gauge whether that was just a Cousins trait or if Gruden shared some of the fault due to limiting his snaps in preseason.   We will find out in a couple weeks.

 

I share your concern.  Hopefully, Alex will help the offense start quickly. 

[KillBill26]

As someone who approved of the smith trade because:

 

1.  entering this off-season there was no way cousins was staying regardless of what he says at the podium.

2. I feel we are heading in the right direction overall in terms of roster building, and feel it is imperative to start seeing positive results on the field as we build towards being a contender in 2019 or 2020.

3.  I would not have felt comfortable with Colt McCoy allowing us to trend in the right direction as far as wins and losses go.

 

That being said, I am expecting two things to happen in 2018.

 

1.  Cousins has mostly better stats than smith, such as passing yards and passing tds.

2. The Vikings have a better record than the Redskins in 2018

 

I think it is possible for both of those things to be true, and for the smith trade to still be considered a success.  I feel some have already deemed the smith trade a failure (not directed at the recent conversation, I understand a lot of you are wait and see, and I totally get it).  But I also expect that when the two outcomes above become a reality, people will unfairly cast a cloud of doom over the team that we are so accustomed to seeing.  The two teams are in different situations: The Vikings window of opportunity is now; Redskins are still a year or two away. 

 

So when cousins looks great and the Vikings are winning, it does not mean the Redskins are not headed in the right direction and that the smith trade is a failure.   Their situation should be viewed completely independent of smith and the Redskins, due to the simple fact that by January 2018, there was no way cousins was staying (i firmly believe this, I know other may disagree) and that smith will still represent a sizable upgrade over McCoy.  I feel there will be fans that will not be able to separate the two dynamics, and I dread the Sundays where cousins throws for 350 yards and the Vikings win, because there will be a lot of negativity out of Redskins nation towards our team and smith.  The past is the past, we need to be positive looking towards the future.  Kirk cousins is not walking thru that door again.

[wit33]

The value of pre season for a teams top 10-20 guys is on a steep decline, even in the 3rd pre season game. 

 

I feel like Jay has a player’s mindset towards pre season, as he played professionally for many years and values a controlled practice environment for the vets (aka. The known commodities). A large majority players it seems wants nothing to do with preseason and Jay appears to understand this line of thinking. 

 

Studs and known commodities will continue to play less and less in future preseasons (If at all), in my opinion. 

4 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

. 

 

So when cousins looks great and the Vikings are winning, it does not mean the Redskins are not headed in the right direction and that the smith trade is a failure.   Their situation should be viewed completely independent of smith and the Redskins, due to the simple fact that by January 2018, there was no way cousins was staying (i firmly believe this, I know other may disagree) and that smith will still represent a sizable upgrade over McCoy.  I feel there will be fans that will not be able to separate the two dynamics, and I dread the Sundays where cousins throws for 350 yards and the Vikings win, because there will be a lot of negativity out of Redskins nation towards our team and smith.  The past is the past, we need to be positive looking towards the future.  Kirk cousins is not walking thru that door again.

 

Fortunately for the first time in a long time the Skins appear to have a QB that can careless about any outside noise. 

[KillBill26]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 Fortunately for the first time in a long time the Skins appear to have a QB that can careless about any outside noise. 

Absolutely, I love Smith's mental makeup.  I was referring more to the fanbases reaction.

[ncr2h]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

You lost me here.

 

I think using stats from 2006 to illuminate how Smith will do now is even more useless than using the W/L record. The sack percentage you mentioned only covered the last three seasons, should probably use that same timespan for everything (or one close to it). Doing so might end up showing the same types of numbers, but at least it will be more accurate. For example, Smith has averaged less than 7 ypa only once during the last seven years...yet for his career he averages 6.9 ypa.

I mean, 7 YPA is such a low hurdle to surpass these days (more than half of the starting QBs in the league exceed that rate each season nowadays), and it speaks volumes that Smith's career YPA is still below 7 despite ~67% of his career pass attempts coming during his "good" period. Kirk's rough start to his career (2012, 2013, and 2014) represents a similar portion of his career (~20% of pass attempts) as Smith's rough start, yet Kirk is sitting at a career YPA of 7.7.

 

Honestly I find the whole debate boring. Cousins is a vastly better QB. I don't find this debate interesting, like I did with the RG3 vs. Cousins debates, because I think people here generally (but certainly not everyone) recognize that Smith is at best a lateral move from Cousins and most likely a downgrade.

 

I will say that the Cousins debacle really turned me sour to the Redskins. I really felt like Cousins was a diamond in the rough, I invested a ton of time on here shouting fans down from the ledge during 2013, 2014, and 2015, and I thought Cousins could be similar to what the Warriors did with Steph curry - a guy we had the vision to sign at a below-market contract, whose subsequent rise in skill would elevate our franchise for years. The fact that we bungled that opportunity and now I'm left cheering for a team QB'ed by a guy as mediocre as Alex Smith is really tough for me to deal with. If Cousins were locked into a long-term deal right now at ~$20m/year we would have a ton of flexibility to build the defense...it's a shame.

[NoCalMike]

2 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

 

 

So when cousins looks great and the Vikings are winning, it does not mean the Redskins are not headed in the right direction and that the smith trade is a failure.  

 

Cousins is in Minnesota to win a Superbowl RIGHT NOW. That would be the main difference.  Yes, Alex Smith could very well be an upgrade, yes he can possibly make the team better, however the 'Skins are not ready to compete for a title right now.

 

Stats be damned, Cousins can have 40 TDs 10 ints, but if he goes out and blows a game in December that means the difference between home field advantage and/or a first round bye, THAT is what is going to matter. Same thing if he goes out and craps the bed in a playoff game.  

 

The 'Skins still have so many question marks on the roster that as a fanbase we really have no idea what to expect.  I feel like the team is filled with so many fragile players that the difference between 11 and 6 wins is razor thin.   In 2017 the team looked very different before the injuries piled on, yet still managed to be "in the conversation" for a wild card for a good amount of the season. 

 

 

[KillBill26]

22 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Cousins is in Minnesota to win a Superbowl RIGHT NOW. That would be the main difference.  Yes, Alex Smith could very well be an upgrade, yes he can possibly make the team better, however the 'Skins are not ready to compete for a title right now.

 

Stats be damned, Cousins can have 40 TDs 10 ints, but if he goes out and blows a game in December that means the difference between home field advantage and/or a first round bye, THAT is what is going to matter. Same thing if he goes out and craps the bed in a playoff game.  

 

The 'Skins still have so many question marks on the roster that as a fanbase we really have no idea what to expect.  I feel like the team is filled with so many fragile players that the difference between 11 and 6 wins is razor thin.   In 2017 the team looked very different before the injuries piled on, yet still managed to be "in the conversation" for a wild card for a good amount of the season. 

 

 

I agree with this 100%, I just hope our fanbase has the same perspective as the season unfolds

[Morneblade]

5 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I would be fascinated to see you try and pull that quote. You have me mixed up with someone else.

Rock on bro.

 

@skinny21 that's fair. At least you take the time to understand what I'm asking. It was really about the merit of using advanced statistics to prove a point. I think like anything, need to be taken in context.

 

You know what?

 

You're right, I once again have you confused with BobandWeave.

 

So, I apologize, once again, for mistaking someone else for you. I make no excuses. I need to be much more careful apparently on keeping track on who says what. I will endeavor to improve on that sir.

 

Again, my apologies.

[purbeast]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:28 PM, bobafett14 said:

 

When something is wrong with the play he just breaks down completely from a mental standpoint and starts looking at the rush, or running into it. He did this in our playoff game TWICE and it pretty much cost us the game.

Yes, it's completely Alex Smith's fault from the bench that the defense blew a 21-3 halftime lead.  

 

**** outta here...

[HigSkin]

Hope this holds true...

 

[Skinsinparadise]

top 100 players this season according to ESPN, Alex does make the list at 97.  Also we got Trent in there and Norman.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24375190/2018-nflrank-predicting-ranking-best-100-players-season

[DJHJR86]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

top 100 players this season according to ESPN, Alex does make the list at 97.  Also we got Trent in there and Norman.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24375190/2018-nflrank-predicting-ranking-best-100-players-season

That list is more accurate than the players list.  Still think Garappolo is too high.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I like that the game is on the road. Imo it helps our chances of winning. Us Vs the world..Hope The skiddishness we saw on Friday was more a game flow issue and lack of game planning. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Cousins is in Minnesota to win a Superbowl RIGHT NOW. That would be the main difference.  Yes, Alex Smith could very well be an upgrade, yes he can possibly make the team better, however the 'Skins are not ready to compete for a title right now.

 

Stats be damned, Cousins can have 40 TDs 10 ints, but if he goes out and blows a game in December that means the difference between home field advantage and/or a first round bye, THAT is what is going to matter. Same thing if he goes out and craps the bed in a playoff game.  

 

The 'Skins still have so many question marks on the roster that as a fanbase we really have no idea what to expect.  I feel like the team is filled with so many fragile players that the difference between 11 and 6 wins is razor thin.   In 2017 the team looked very different before the injuries piled on, yet still managed to be "in the conversation" for a wild card for a good amount of the season. 

 

 

 

I'm petty as a fan. I don't want to see Cousins live up to the expectations just because it'll make me feel better that we moved on to a cheaper option. Having said that, what you summarized above is what makes this so unfair to Minnesota and Cousins himself (I'm not losing any sleep over that, mind you). 

 

For a season like the 2017 Vikings to come together, so many breaks have to go your way. Unless you're the Patriots, you don't just have seasons like that. The Vikings, save for one miraculous play, looked awful in the final 6 playoff quarters that they played. My point is that their true baseline is likely not 13-3 and playing for a trip to the Super Bowl. But, that's the narrative that Cousins is walking into. 

 

It's very possible that he can play well and do his job and they finish 2-3 games worse without really doing anything wrong. With Rodgers back and Detroit always lurking, that could easily put them on the road in a wild card game with a chance to be one-and-done in the post-season. 

 

I'd be elated as a fan, but I'd also understand that the narrative that "they paid for Cousins and did 3 games worse" would be intellectually dishonest. I'd still revel in it though. 

[NoCalMike]

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'm petty as a fan. I don't want to see Cousins live up to the expectations just because it'll make me feel better. Having said that, what you summarized above is what makes this so unfair to Minnesota and Cousins himself (I'm not losing any sleep over that, mind you). 

 

 

 

Oh I totally agree (with your entire reply, just shortened the quote for space concern).  Cousins is a Viking now.  I am not rooting for him.  Not necessarily rooting "against him" but he is not of my concern anymore other than if/when the Vikings & Skins end up in each other's way of something.

 

Fair or unfair to Cousins, he got paid 100% guaranteed money by that organization, something that turned a lot of heads mind you, for a reason.  It wasn't to put up pretty stats during October.   Fair or unfair the Vikings ownership and management feel they are on the championship caliber level and chose Cousins instead of trying to resign any of the 3 QB's they had on the roster last season.  That was their prerogative and now it's up to Cousins to make them look right in the games that matter the most. I am not even saying he can't do it, just that those have featured some of his more rocky performances in the past.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

You don't need to be expert or have ever played a down of football to know the worst possible thing you can see from a QB is "Happy Feet" That is what really scared me from Smith's last game. That did not look like a confident QB.

[NoCalMike]

On the play posted in the thread, to me it looked like once he saw everyone covered his plan was to run up the middle for the first down, but had to abandon that plan once the defender shed his block.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

51 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Oh I totally agree (with your entire reply, just shortened the quote for space concern).  Cousins is a Viking now.  I am not rooting for him.  Not necessarily rooting "against him" but he is not of my concern anymore other than if/when the Vikings & Skins end up in each other's way of something.

 

Fair or unfair to Cousins, he got paid 100% guaranteed money by that organization, something that turned a lot of heads mind you, for a reason.  It wasn't to put up pretty stats during October.   Fair or unfair the Vikings ownership and management feel they are on the championship caliber level and chose Cousins instead of trying to resign any of the 3 QB's they had on the roster last season.  That was their prerogative and now it's up to Cousins to make them look right in the games that matter the most. I am not even saying he can't do it, just that those have featured some of his more rocky performances in the past.

 

Great post. 

 

Personally, I would amend your first paragraph. I'd love to be a big enough person to say that I'm not rooting against him, but I am a little. I don't want anything horrible to happen to the man, but I ultimately want a result that validates the Redskins' decision to move on. For some reason, I've always been wired that way - I want outcomes that paint my favorite team in the best light. 

 

Like I said, I'm petty

[Veryoldschool]

I want Cousins to blaze like the second coming and lead Minnesota to glory!  I hope he is Super Bowl MVP and all the good things that follow because I think Kirk and the ownership and leadership deserve it for their boldness and courage in partnering together to bring home a championship.

 

But our chief concern here is Alex Smith and I fervently hope Alex and company will succeed this year and he will help Gruden elevate this team.

[purbeast]

I hope Cousins ****ing sucks and goes 0-16.  After being so damn fake and tricking me into believing in him and he wanted to be here, I say good riddance and hope he flames out.  

 

I'm all in Alex Smith at this point.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

23 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

I want Cousins to blaze like the second coming and lead Minnesota to glory!  I hope he is Super Bowl MVP and all the good things that follow because I think Kirk and the ownership and leadership deserve it for their boldness and courage in partnering together to bring home a championship.

 

But our chief concern here is Alex Smith and I fervently hope Alex and company will succeed this year and he will help Gruden elevate this team.

 

Those are confusing 1a and 1b hopes...

 

Our ultimate goal, no matter how unrealistic, is to get to the Super Bowl. If you had to choose which of those things is more important to you, I assume Redskins' success, right?