Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Temper11]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

This will be one of the issues with Alex for sure ? His pocket awareness and eye discipline (This ain’t changing in my view,

pocket awareness is an intangible you either have or don’t). He appeared to see man coverage and immediately looked to take advantage of this look with his legs and run for the 3rd down and 9 conversion late in a game. Titans were step ahead and put a d line spy to counter. 

 

Alex seems to fall in line with other average to above average QBs in the league with pre play reads, but his ability to run will help at times when wrong or bad play call. 

 

Im on side it will prove out over a season to be more of a positive— his running and at times poor pocket awareness. This in relation to other QBs on his level that also struggle when play call, or pre snap read is bad.

 

While I agree with you on almost everything you said here, I will disagree that it "won't/can't" change.  I think the primary reason he immediately looks to take off if something isn't right, is because he has had quite a bit of success doing it.  Not because he's panicking as these guys believe, but because he's confident in his ability to do it.  It's fantastic when it works - which is pretty often, but frustrating when it doesn't... which, admittedly, is often enough to draw this criticism of his game.   You gotta take the bad with the good, or good with the bad or whatever.  In my opinion, it's still a net positive (shocking, I know).

 

If 70 puts a body on 97 and Smith runs right off his hip into that massive amount of space on the right side of the field for a 1st down or more, I doubt this is a play they choose to talk about pocket awareness.  And he's done that quite a bit... look at his highlight films, tons of highlights of him picking up 1sts and chunk yardage on plays just like this.  There's also plenty like this one, in which the hole he thought was there, closed and he looks like he's just running into a sack - which essentially he is. 

 

But, I think this part of his game will change when he becomes less and less able to make plays with his legs.  When he starts losing a step and the number of times he converts vs. fails-to-convert start to flip flop, then I'll think you see him change his game again.  I have no idea if that will be this year, next year, or after he's left the Redskins altogether, but I think he'll adjust his game accordingly.  Right now, he sees an opportunity to go... he goes... cause it's been workin'. 

[Veryoldschool]

I'll be glad when Alex gets to play in real games and lead the Skins to real victories then we will have something to talk about.  Talking about Alex's preseason or performances prior to joining the Skins have really gotten stale.  I didn't see it and really don't give a damn what he did or didn't do with the 49ers or Chiefs.  Nor do I care to compare Alex with his predecessor with the Skins either, it doesn't matter going forward.  Alex is our guy now and I am 110% behind him, don't want to see him nitpicked to death on here.  We ought to all get behind him and hope his cast of playmakers and lineman can stay healthy in 2018.

[Temper11]

Smith addresses this very subject actually in his latest presser.  The reporter beats around the bush a little asking about "his mobility and balancing staying in the pocket and getting out to extend plays".  7:27 mark of the vid at the following link:

 

https://www.redskins.com/video/alex-smith-you-never-know-which-plays-end-up-making-the-difference

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is me guessing -- trying to piece things together.  But two different beat guys, if I recall Finlay was one, forgot who the other was said they are supposed to be quiet but they can see they are practicing a bunch of the KC concepts.   The way they said they aren't supposed to talk about it -- gave me the vibe that what they saw came off more than just an occasional wrinkle. 

 

Chris Thompson hinted at the same.  Alex also said in an interview he's pushed Jay to include more of it because he fits his skill set -- or something like that. 

 

So looks like no question its coming.   How much?  Don't know.  But looks like more than just a sprinkle of it at the very least.  Knowing Jay's style a little -- I'd presume much more RPO than RO.

 

As I sit here and think about that for a second, why didn't we run that before with Kirk? I mean, Kirk is not the athlete that Alex is, but yet we ran the RO some with him. Now, I get that it was a holdover from RGIII, but we all know that Kirk is not the running weapon that either RGIII or Smith is. The RPO seems to fit Kirk's skill set, quick reads, as well as anyone. Kinda odd that it only looks to show up now.

[MisterPinstripe]

34 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

As I sit here and think about that for a second, why didn't we run that before with Kirk? I mean, Kirk is not the athlete that Alex is, but yet we ran the RO some with him. Now, I get that it was a holdover from RGIII, but we all know that Kirk is not the running weapon that either RGIII or Smith is. The RPO seems to fit Kirk's skill set, quick reads, as well as anyone. Kinda odd that it only looks to show up now.

He's not smart enough. ?

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

As I sit here and think about that for a second, why didn't we run that before with Kirk? I mean, Kirk is not the athlete that Alex is, but yet we ran the RO some with him. Now, I get that it was a holdover from RGIII, but we all know that Kirk is not the running weapon that either RGIII or Smith is. The RPO seems to fit Kirk's skill set, quick reads, as well as anyone. Kinda odd that it only looks to show up now.

 

To your point, I read somewhere the Vikings offensive coordinator, Difllippo, is indeed incorporating it some with Kirk. 

 

Diflippo worked under Alex's old coordinator, Doug Pederson.    Jay isn't from that school.  Jay obviously is a great coordinator in his own right but not of the RPO tree.   Kevin O'Connell on the other hand is versed in the system via Chip Kelly as is Alex from way back.  

[Morneblade]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To your point, I read somewhere the Vikings offensive coordinator, Difllippo, is indeed incorporating it some with Kirk. 

 

Diflippo worked under Alex's old coordinator, Doug Pederson.    Jay isn't from that school.  Jay obviously is a great coordinator in his own right but not of the RPO tree.   Kevin O'Connell on the other hand is versed in the system via Chip Kelly as is Alex from way back.  

 

That makes sense.

[dyst]

Alex is 34, he isn’t going to get better or become elite all of a sudden. 

 

I think he was a fine back up plan for the failed Kirk situation but we really need to start drafting a young QB of the future.

[NoCalMike]

Alex as opposed to Kirk (who some thought was still on his way to getting better.) is who he is and will always be, he is an established QB so all there really is to do is analyze what he is and hope his strengths show up in games more than his weaknesses.  

 

The roster around him is going to make a difference of course, but in the end we've had over a decade of football to learn about the kind of QB Alex Smith is.  He isn't here to reinvent his game.

[Jumbo]

i think i've changed my mind after last week.

 

i don't like him now. 

 

i think he's lying abut his height, too.

 

he better not turn out to be stupid.

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Alex as opposed to Kirk (who some thought was still on his way to getting better.) is who he is and will always be, he is an established QB so all there really is to do is analyze what he is and hope his strengths show up in games more than his weaknesses.  

 

The roster around him is going to make a difference of course, but in the end we've had over a decade of football to learn about the kind of QB Alex Smith is.  He isn't here to reinvent his game.

 

I agree with you on some levels, but unknown exists with Alex and Gruden working together. I believe they will fit extremely well together and there’s some potential for the offense to do great things. 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

10 hours ago, Jumbo said:

i think i've changed my mind after last week.

 

i don't like him now. 

 

i think he's lying abut his height, too.

 

he better not turn out to be stupid.

 

His helmet is too big or his head is too small. Looks like Spaceballs.

[NoCalMike]

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I agree with you on some levels, but unknown exists with Alex and Gruden working together. I believe they will fit extremely well together and there’s some potential for the offense to do great things. 

 

I agree with that.  Certain offenses, schemes, coaches etc etc....fit specific QB's well. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 hours ago, Jumbo said:

i think he's lying abut his height, too.

 

2

 

[tmandoug1]

This will be a short lived thread if we can't protect him.....which we haven't been able to do for decades. I am excited but wary.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I agree with that.  Certain offenses, schemes, coaches etc etc....fit specific QB's well. 

 

 

I think the scheme match should be a fun watch especially with O'Connell in the mix.  It's one of the stranger things I've seen on the board in my time here  -- which is the idea that selling the RPO and Alex being a wizard at it by some is seen as a masked slam at the dude -- but I'll be brave and stick with the point anyway.  ?    The screen especially to RBs is one of the key components of a good RPO system so for me Chris Thompson being healthy = big year I think for Alex.   I am mentioning this because we got Thompson saying his doctors told him he won't be 100% until November and he still feels some pain when he gets contact on it and on the other hand Jay is saying Thompson looks fantastic in practice.  If Thompson is indeed really in top form, I think he will have a monster year and Alex will have a real good one, too.  

[Sandy Monk]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I think the scheme match should be a fun watch especially with O'Connell in the mix.  It's one of the stranger things I've seen on the board in my time here  -- which is the idea that selling the RPO and Alex being a wizard at it by some is seen as a masked slam at the dude -- but I'll be brave and stick with the point anyway.  ?    The screen especially to RBs is one of the key components of a good RPO system so for me Chris Thompson being healthy = big year I think for Alex.   I am mentioning this because we got Thompson saying his doctors told him he won't be 100% until November and he still feels some pain when he gets contact on it and on the other hand Jay is saying Thompson looks fantastic in practice. If Thompson is indeed really in top form, I think he will have a monster year and Alex will have a real good one, too.  

 

Not if he's getting blocks from Doctson and Richardson, if preseason is any indication, and it clearly is these days. ? 

[Conn]

I think Smith is a better fit for Jay than Kirk was.

 

I still find it hard to be optimistic long term because he's 34. 

 

I also find it hard to be optimistic about actually making it over that hump with him because we can't match the offensive scheme, receiving talent, or running game he had in KC with Andy Reid. Reid has plenty of faults but they line up with Jay's--game management, challenge usage, clock management etc. So I don't think we have an edge there at all.

 

I think our best chance at giving Smith something he hasn't had in a while would be if our defense turns out to be elite. I'm not optimistic about that either. 

 

So in general I'm not sure what the upside really is here. Which is why I wanted to trade up a bit for Rosen instead. Hell Bridgewater was free and we'd have Fuller and a 3rd still, but that was an injury risk so understandable, and I think Teddy is overrated bc he can throw a pretty, well-placed ball sometimes. 

 

Anyways, no need to relitigate all that. We made the choice we made, and now we have a 34 year old Smith in a worse offense surrounded by worse talent. But maybe a better defense. So who knows. 

 

Even saying all that I think the floor and ceiling of the team are both higher than the Cousins teams, for what that's worth. So if that was the reasoning behind the trade, it will probably be a success. So we aren't going to go further than Smith has gone before, not with a worse team...but that still might be an improvement on where we've been. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Not if he's getting blocks from Doctson and Richardson, if preseason is any indication, and it clearly is these days. ? 

 

I recall Cooley would rip Doctson's blocking and to a lesser extent Crowder's blocking in his film reviews.  Yeah I don't recall Richardson's rep for blocking.  That makes me think I heard today Garcon might be cut from SF.  I recall it was one of Shanny's raps about Garcon about how underrated Garcon's run blocking was.

 

I'll add to that going through Sharpe's 2018 preview where he studies team's trends, etc -- he said Garcon statistically speaking was a great third down receiver when he was with the Redskins.  Crowder has not been (I wasn't aware of that and that surprised me) and Doctson also hasn't been a good third down receiver.  His theory is they lost their clutch third down WR when Garcon left and were left were guys who weren't good on that down.   

 

I haven't really thought about receivers catching third down passes and converting until reading that also don't know if that's pure coincidence as for third down play and that could thereby change.   But thinking about it yeah I recall a lot of clutch play from Garcon.  Wonder if they'd consider him if he's released if they get him on the cheap?  He's a monster run blocker, too.   

 

Part of the reason why I am hung up on Jordan Reed is the dude gets open, great target on third down and red zone.  Alex had Kelce in that role last year and he was healthy. 

 

[Sandy Monk]

I doubt the 49ers cut him loose. I think some writer's just throwing crap at the wall to see if the clicks come in. Would make more sense if they do so next year. They look to need his services, and if cut, SF would basically be paying him in 2018 to not suit up for them. I'd love to see Garcon back in DC. Might even be tempted to fatten him up a little for a TE role, haha. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I think the scheme match should be a fun watch especially with O'Connell in the mix.  It's one of the stranger things I've seen on the board in my time here  -- which is the idea that selling the RPO and Alex being a wizard at it by some is seen as a masked slam at the dude -- but I'll be brave and stick with the point anyway.  ?    The screen especially to RBs is one of the key components of a good RPO system so for me Chris Thompson being healthy = big year I think for Alex.   I am mentioning this because we got Thompson saying his doctors told him he won't be 100% until November and he still feels some pain when he gets contact on it and on the other hand Jay is saying Thompson looks fantastic in practice.  If Thompson is indeed really in top form, I think he will have a monster year and Alex will have a real good one, too.  

I look at all of this as a HUGE maybe.  Gruden's screen game since he's been here hasn't been great.  The running game hasn't been great either. And as you mentioned, he's not off of the RPO tree, and hasn't really shown a propensity to be expansive in his offense.  If you want to argue that's because of the QB and other players, fine.  You very well could be right. .  But we haven't seen a lot of creativity in the offense in years.

 

What you get is a really well put together passing game, which does a good job getting guys open. Give Gruden a lot of credit for that.

 

But we haven't seen things like

- up-tempo offenses in the middle of games

- running out of spread formations

- running in passing situations and passing out of running situations

- the screen game

- QB sneak in short yardage situations (this isn't so much as creative as it is obviously missing)

 

So, will there be a scheme match with Alex?  Maybe.  I'm not so sure.  Reid, for all of his inability to manage the clock, is an offensive genius, and extremely creative.  Much more so than Gruden has shown to be by any impartial measure. 

 

So, we'll see.  I'm hoping we're going to see something very different and exciting out of the offense.  I'm worried we're going to see a lot of AP straight handoffs on 1st down, a lot of 2nd and longs, and a lot of Alex running around on 3rd down.

 

Hope I'm wrong. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

17 hours ago, dyst said:

Alex is 34, he isn’t going to get better or become elite all of a sudden. 

 

I think he was a fine back up plan for the failed Kirk situation but we really need to start drafting a young QB of the future.

 

Well, I think from a contract/money perspective we are locked in to Smith for the next 3 years (through 2020), minimum. Given that, I wouldn't bother drafting a QB until the 2020 draft. One minor contributor to our Cousins situation was that we didn't see him as the starter until his 4th season. I would hate to "start the clock" on a high-round pick at QB when we are committed to Smith.

 

I think following the Chiefs' plan would work...you draft someone in the final year you're tied to Smith and let him develop. Then, you either have a reason to move on from Smith (his play degrades) or you have a great problem (he is still playing at a high level). 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

But we haven't seen things like

- up-tempo offenses in the middle of games

- running out of spread formations

- running in passing situations and passing out of running situations

- the screen game

- QB sneak in short yardage situations (this isn't so much as creative as it is obviously missing)

 

So, will there be a scheme match with Alex?  Maybe.  I'm not so sure.  Reid, for all of his inability to manage the clock, is an offensive genius, and extremely creative.  Much more so than Gruden has shown to be by any impartial measure. 

 

So, we'll see.  I'm hoping we're going to see something very different and exciting out of the offense.  I'm worried we're going to see a lot of AP straight handoffs on 1st down, a lot of 2nd and longs, and a lot of Alex running around on 3rd down.

 

Hope I'm wrong. 

 

I'll give you this.  Jay has laid it on really thick about Alex Smith along with some others in the front office.  So if you are going to raise the bar, you got to live with those expectations.  

 

The reason though why I think we will see some of that KC offense is based on what I've read and heard about Kevin O'Connell putting his touches on the offense -- and he is well versed in that offense in part from working with Chip Kelly.  Alex himself mentioning it in an interview.  And the beat reporters hinting that they have seen some of that in practice.  But will see. 

4 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

I doubt the 49ers cut him loose. I think some writer's just throwing crap at the wall to see if the clicks come in. Would make more sense if they do so next year. They look to need his services, and if cut, SF would basically be paying him in 2018 to not suit up for them. I'd love to see Garcon back in DC. Might even be tempted to fatten him up a little for a TE role, haha. 

 

Probably right on that.  Yeah Garcon is missed more than I expected.  The blocking, clutch catches, attitude, etc.

[Veryoldschool]

23 hours ago, dyst said:

Alex is 34, he isn’t going to get better or become elite all of a sudden. 

 

I think he was a fine back up plan for the failed Kirk situation but we really need to start drafting a young QB of the future.

 

Or maybe we can quietly enjoy our QB for at least a season or two because he is ONLY 34, not 39 or 40 and ready to hang it up.  Our new but experienced franchise QB has not even played in 1 actual game yet.  Alex is a QB, not a running back, we don't need a replacement strategy now because Alex is the replacement strategy.

[dyst]

7 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Or maybe we can quietly enjoy our QB for at least a season or two because he is ONLY 34, not 39 or 40 and ready to hang it up.  Our new but experienced franchise QB has not even played in 1 actual game yet.  Alex is a QB, not a running back, we don't need a replacement strategy now because Alex is the replacement strategy.

Good teams prepare for the future instead of letting the future come to them.

 

Eagles unloaded McNabb, a QB much better than Alex Smith and quickly grabbed Vick. They had the foresight to see Vick’s decline so they grabbed Foles. Not to mention, they then decided to trade up and grab Wentz. Now they have two young QBs on their roster.

 

The Patriots have been drafting a possible future QB for Tom Brady for ages. Unfortunately for those young guys, Brady is the best QB to ever play. Fortunately for the Patriots, they have managed to turn trade young QBs into solid draft picks.

 

Packers had Brett Farve, but still drafted Rodgers...years before there was an end in sight.

 

I think smart people would draft a young QB but clearly this team isn’t that smart and they have a history of not having a roadmap.