Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[goskins10]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Sorry I was unclear there..when I said the RO play was blown up, I meant when he kept the ball. The only positive runs I remember were both on passing plays where he tucked and made something happen. I'm sure the threat of him keeping contributed to some good runs. 

 

My point was a positive one...we gained nearly 200 yards on the ground and that came without our mobile QB really contributing anything to that total. 

 

You are saying positive runs by him then? I thought you meant any RO success at all. I agree as I do not remember Alex making big runs on RO. 

 

Either way, we both totally agree close to 200 yds rushing is an awesome thing to behold!  

[Darth Tater]

6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Sorry I was unclear there..when I said the RO play was blown up, I meant when he kept the ball. The only positive runs I remember were both on passing plays where he tucked and made something happen. I'm sure the threat of him keeping contributed to some good runs. 

 

My point was a positive one...we gained nearly 200 yards on the ground and that came without our mobile QB really contributing anything to that total. 

That is what I thought but an RO play is not a QB keeper. While our QB may not have added much directly to the stats, every successful RO is totally dependent on the QB making the right read and having enough mobility that you can get numbers.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

That is what I thought but an RO play is not a QB keeper. While our QB may not have added much directly to the stats, every successful RO is totally dependent on the QB making the right read and having enough mobility that you can get numbers.

 

No I understand...I was talking about Smith's rushing and used the RO subset of plays as one example. Anyway, I'm excited to see how much a solid rushing game out of Smith will impact the totals (he's probably bound to have a few decent totals). 

[Darth Tater]

22 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

No I understand...I was talking about Smith's rushing and used the RO subset of plays as one example. Anyway, I'm excited to see how much a solid rushing game out of Smith will impact the totals (he's probably bound to have a few decent totals). 

Then you really would need to focus on an RO where the QB hands the ball off and it is blown up by the guy you are reading on.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Smith turning and rolling left, is this a newer wrinkle in his game?

 

I had the impression he was more of a roll right for most part only QB. If he becomes more comfortable with this nuance of QB and a result manipulate pocket in either direction, another step may just be had by him. 

 

I was watching Alex in warm ups, he was deadly accurate throwing intermediate out routes on the right, and struggled a little on the left.  He has really nice touch on short-intermediate routes.

 

Id got to rewatch the game again to zone in on him.  From what I noticed in real time at the game, he looked good. The deep ball to Richardson seemed to need more air under it otherwise it would have been a big play. For a chunk of the game, Arizona was selling out to stop the run, crowding the line of scrimmage, making our run game even more impressive in that context.

 

I guessed in the prediction thread that it would be Adrian Peterson's day more so than Alex Smith's day and that IMO was borne out - along of course Chris Thompson. Though Alex did his part well.

 

Ive said a gazzilion times on this thread and others that I think Alex Smith has a big season and by extension the team if Chris Thompson stays healthy and ditto Jordan Reed. Everything I saw yesterday doubles down on that point for me.  

 

If we are relying on our receivers sans Thompson and Reed - I see nothing special in that group.  And I liked the Doctson pick when it happenned and beat the drum for Richardson in FA.  Not saying a receiver cant emerge or be a good player from what we have. But IMO you need a special player or two on offense to go far like Thompson and Reed.

 

I think Alex will do his part to make this a playoff team. I felt Kirk was a playoff QB, too. But neither is Aaron Rodgers where you climb on their backs to the promised land. They both (like just about every mortal Qb) need a star or two who can do things special.

 

Not to jinx this but if Reed, Thompson, Peterson stay healthy - i can even see 11-5. But if not, I think they are more of an 8-8 team. Thats why I've been on the train of luck being an X factor even more this year than most.

 

[Renegade7]

I've been telling my peoples Alex Smith is like a white Michael Vick.  Its a joke, but rewatching this game, he is driving the cardinals bat-**** crazy with his escapability.  QB's like that historically make our lives a living hell, now we got one who doesn't turn the ball over, either.

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Not taking anything away from AP but I was trying to stay on topic with Alex's success instead. VOS introduced the run thing with AP and all so I responded to his second thought in Alex's thread that he created...lol

"all so"  is spelled 'also' 

 

[Est.1974]

Alex Smith is a class act. I'd imagine Gruden is pissing his pants with excitement at having him at the helm. 

[TheShredder]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Alex Smith is a class act. I'd imagine Gruden is pissing his pants with excitement at having him at the helm. 

We couldn't see what was brewing in the closed practice sessions, however after seeing the difference between other QB's running Jay's plays and then watching Smith it appears (at least for the Cardinals game) that we're seeing a strong match.  

[zCommander]

24 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

"all so"  is spelled 'also' 

 

 

Actually there should have been a comma after the word all.  

Now you have more knowledge as well.... lol

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim:

Of course, it helps when a team can run the ball the way Washington did Sunday, finishing with 182 yards. Then again, part of the reason Washington ran well was because of Smith’s ability to handle a heavy dose of run-pass option plays. 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/37119/alex-smiths-all-around-game-gives-redskins-different-look

 

 

This play below wasn't per se RPO.  But as for the whole game, I loved all the backfield action -- the reverse fakes, sweeps, misdirection, etc.  I am not in the camp that Alex is some Greek God.  Nor am I in the camp that he stinks.  I like him though and this is what I liked about him best in KC.  Yeah I saw all the posts doubting whether people really watched his KC games.  People can believe what they want but I did watch.  They rebroadcasted a bunch of his games this off season and I watched every rebroadcast and a couple of coach tape versions, too.  Doesn't make me an expert on the dude but saw enough to have my own take about him.  Posted some clips months ago on this same thread. 

 

Here we got a 2 back set.  We didn't play much was 2 back sets last season -- when we did it was typically a full back - Niles Paul.  Two running threats on the field at the same time.  Love it.   Reason why I was so down after the Guice injury is not only do I think the dude is a stud but also because what I value the most about Alex is the RPO/RO and backfield action with the running game.  I think that's where Alex does his magic and he deserves some real tools to do it.  I said multiple times including the morning before the game that I thought Chris Thompson is the perfect weapon for him.  That's how it looked on Sunday -- fingers crossed that Thompson can stay healthy.  

 

 

The fake to Robert Kelley headed to the right opened up the toss to Thompson on the left for a big gain.

 

 

Another misdirection play, QB keeper, Peterson does a great job looking like he's headed full steam

 

 

Cardinals defense going one way, the runner in this case Alex himself going the other way

 

 

 

[JSSkinz]

This is a play I'm not sure about, looks like an RPO because Alex tucks the ball away but maybe that was just due to the quick pressure.

 

I guess my questions are, was AP supposed to block the unevaded rusher?  Was this really a pass play to AP that didn't develop quickly enough?

 

Look how open AP is in the 3rd picture, he is looking at Alex like he's expecting a pass, if he hits him it would have been a chunk gain.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheShredder]

18 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

 

The play before was a ROP to the right and Smith runs for 5 yards on 1st down.  This is the very next play and was a bad play call to the same side and they blow it up.  Move the slider to the 31:00 marker.  

 

When you rewatch the play in motion, the defender was locked onto the QB as an assignment.  They were coached to watch for this play and read the play exactly. It was probably designed to have AP get a shuffle pass or dump off to AP, but defender made a quick play and Smith protected the ball.  They can tweak this play and AP has an easy 1st down here, but in the NFL, when they bring 8+ in the box with the Safety at the line of scrimmage assigned to the QB, this play fails more often then it works. It works great in college because players don't always manage their assignments. 

 

This was a poor play call.  Could have run gut on the next play with more upside imo.  The 3rd play in the series Smith changes the play at the line and gives the shuttle pass to CT for that nice game.  That was by design and called at the line by Smith.  Something we haven't had here before in the Jay era.  I see that Jay trusts Alex enough in week 1 to change plays at the line.  

[JSSkinz]

Heres another RPO, I think we ran 3 (Maybe just 2 if the previous one I posted was supposed to be a shuffle which seems likely) of them during the course of the game and all 3 were busted plays.

 

Everything is fine in pic #1.

In pic #2 Scherff gets abused.

Pic #3 Alex bails out and takes the 3 yards up the middle.

 

It looks like Scherff just missed his assignment which is fixable.

 

 

 

[TheShredder]

16 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Pic #3 Alex bails out and takes the 3 yards up the middle.

This looks like an Alex Smith staple...if he sees he can get 3+ yards vs risk a pass, he takes it.  Managing down and distance.  This is a QB whom makes decisive decisions based on Risk:Reward.  Also appears that he's been given authority to call plays at the line when he sees a higher probability setup.  Alex moves the ball and at least in Game 1 he did a great job running this offense.  

[JSSkinz]

31 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

That was by design and called at the line by Smith.  Something we haven't had here before in the Jay era.  I see that Jay trusts Alex enough in week 1 to change plays at the line.  

 

 

This is good stuff and people need to know this when they analyze Alex's play, you don't force what's not there and there's more to playing QB than just taking a 2 step drop and unloading the ball.

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

The play before was a ROP to the right and Smith runs for 5 yards on 1st down.

Wasnt that just a play-action boot? It didn't have that RPO feel to it.

[TheShredder]

31 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Wasnt that just a play-action boot? It didn't have that RPO feel to it.

Run Play Option doesn't have to be like a Read Option.  Depending on the read, which means different things to where the blocking is going and who the QB is reading depends on the play design.  It's a play action boot if there's no read.  If he has the option to hand it off or pitch it, then it's a Read Option.  If it's a Run Play Option, the way I understand it is it can be either way.  It can be a run play or a play action which includes a boot, with the option to run if there's room and no pass or pass to the open receiver.  I think the way the league is going is for there to not be just a Play Action Boot, but a Run Play Option.  

 

So like if Alex takes the snap and goes to his left, with the OL going to the left, and AP moving left...Alex sees a run play develop instantly as the OL blocks and the defensive look is favorable, he just goes with the run.  RPO is when he sees the defense alignment not to be beneficial and he Options off with a boot...on the other side of the boot in the RPO, there's a contingency for that with an open receiver or QB keeper, or just throws it away outside the pocket. It's a Triple Option.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_option

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Alex Smith was silky smooth vs the Cards. He seemed to maximize what was there the majority of the time. Excited to see what we can do with what looks like, a winner. 

[bedlamVR]

I think one thing that is quite interesting is Alex is very critical of himself . In an interview talking about Jordan Reeds TD he says - 

 

“ I should have thrown it away on the previous play but I stupidly scrambled for s half a yard and we had to burn a time out. Then I threw it low and away from him (Reed) but then for him to not only catch it but have the awareness to lunge for the end zone was awesome. If he had been touched in bound we would have come away with nothing but Reed really bailed us out - bailed me out”

 

i think that shows a great deal of humility . That can be taken wrong after a loss if he is as kandid 

 

But  I was impressed with how calm he was most times through the game - the only time he looked flustered was first and second down in the shadow of the end zone but that shuttle pass to save the safety he was very calm... 

[TheShredder]

2 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Alex Smith was silky smooth vs the Cards. He seemed to maximize what was there the majority of the time. Excited to see what we can do with what looks like, a winner. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Heres another RPO, I think we ran 3 (Maybe just 2 if the previous one I posted was supposed to be a shuffle which seems likely) of them during the course of the game and all 3 were busted plays.

 

Everything is fine in pic #1.

In pic #2 Scherff gets abused.

Pic #3 Alex bails out and takes the 3 yards up the middle.

 

It looks like Scherff just missed his assignment which is fixable.

 

 

On that one wonder if its RPO, you have 7 guys more or less in the box.  I know there are variations of the RPO but usually a key measuring stick is you throw or run based on how many people are in the box and or you often have a receiver ready for a quick screen or hitch, I don't see that here unless Peterson turned around.  I'd think maybe RO but as far as I can tell they didn't leave a DE unblocked which is a staple of the RO.   Having said that, I admit its not easy to pick up RPO plays -- I recall NFL pundit types making fun of Collinsworth for his broadcast for misdiagnosing RPO plays in the Eagles/Falcons game.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I liked how Alex played, especially as to the backfield motion/running game as I mentioned.  So this isn't a criticism but an observation about how teams might game plan based on Sunday's game -- his air yards in that game averaged 4 yards, the lowest of all QBs last Sunday.  IMO we need to stretch the field in future games otherwise I gather opponents are going to crowd the line of scrimmage. 

 

Getting some long completions to Richardson I think will help the bottom line.  I've been slowly going through the game with coaches tape -- saw a couple of plays where Crowder was wide open -- once on an intermediate route (if I recall crossing route) and once in the end zone where Alex checked down to a short pass, instead.   All QBs do that at times so that's not a criticism -- I just noticed that Crowder was getting open some and possibly can help taking the top off the defense. 

 

On another note, I've been one of the relatively positive people here about Doctson.  But don't love hearing from some beat guys he had a "meh" camp and granted the Arizona secondary is good but he wasn't a factor Sunday.  Hopefully he bounces back this Sunday.  

[NoCalMike]

I think for starters the Arizona defense was never able to pressure Washington into changing their game plan. That was I think one big reason we didn't see Smith airing the ball out or attempting to.  The one pass to Richardson was just a tad over thrown but it also drew an illegal contact flag because Richardson was held.  If that play was timing-based, then Richardson being held could have affected where the ball was thrown and why it was just over his reach.  If he isn't held on his initial move, he is likely open by 3-4 more yards by the time the ball is thrown and who knows the result then, however re-watching the film, if the ball is caught that is likely going all the way.

 

I am not sure if the Cardinals defense was just overrated by analysts going into the season or if the O-line, when healthy, is just that dang dominant. I don't think the Colts, Packers, or Saints defenses will have a ton to say about this running game either. They might have a better plan scheme-wise, but I am not sure if they have the personnel to really challenge this O-line and the running game.  Carolina could be the first big test to see what this offense looks like when the run game isn't clicking or at least is inconsistent enough during the game that Smith is forced into more 2nd/3rd & Longs.

[JSSkinz]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note, I've been one of the relatively positive people here about Doctson.  But don't love hearing from some beat guys he had a "meh" camp and granted the Arizona secondary is good but he wasn't a factor Sunday.  Hopefully he bounces back this Sunday.  

I posted a couple questions in the WR thread, there were IMO some blocks where the effort was questionable by him but I wanted to get feedback from others before making that judgment.