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Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum


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13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know.  i think the assumption by some is since Alex is a veteran and is incorporating some of the KC offense into this one, that he'd have more control -- but got no idea.    Like some here, I watched Kirk's game and Alex's back to back.  My thoughts about both didn't change one whit after last Sunday.  Kirk to me has the more live arm who I'd trust more in a shoot out.  Alex is more of the backfield magician who I'd trust more to maximize the run game and avoiding mishaps.   

 

I whined about Kirk not having a run game while he was here.  I'd whine even harder for Alex because I think it brings out his best and ditto of those of the running backs when he has backs who can play well in space.   I am not worried about how much control Jay cedes or doesn't cede.  I recall Kirk in one of his interviews said if he suggested plays or things to Jay he typically would say, great, just do it.   I suspect Jay is easy for any QB to work with. 

 

 

Got ya, wasn’t sure.

 

I’m not a real fan of the Chief “gimmicky stuff” that Reid ran last year, even moreso after defenses appeared to figure it out. As an outsider, I don’t see Jay getting to level of Reid type stuff. More of a west coast purest.  I think Jay will do more RPO action plays similar to what we’ve seen in years past at a higher rate. New wrinkles will take place with Alex though. 

 

Backfield stuff Alex does has some value (Most guys can do that stuff—look no further than 18-22yr olds doing it on Saturday’s), but what I saw in Cardinal game was much more than that. No adversity took place and only one game though. 

 

Cousins was aight :) 

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12 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Got ya, wasn’t sure.

 

I’m not a real fan of the Chief “gimmicky stuff” that Reid ran last year, even moreso after defenses appeared to figure it out. As an outsider, I don’t see Jay getting to level of Reid type stuff. More of a west coast purest.  I think Jay will do more RPO action plays similar to what we’ve seen in years past at a higher rate. New wrinkles will take place with Alex though. 

 

Backfield stuff Alex does has some value (Most guys can do that stuff—look no further than 18-22yr olds doing it on Saturday’s), but what I saw in Cardinal game was much more than that. No adversity and one game

 

 

 

You can call it gimmicky but its about misdirection and keeping defenses off balance.  It also helps the running game.  Much tougher to stop a running back when you don't know the run is coming and or from where its coming and the previous play helps deceive the eyes as for what they see next.  

 

I think this article from PFF sums up Alex well.  I got labeled by some as an Alex hater because I didn't subscribe to the idea that the dude is like among the Zeus level great QBs in the league -- where he's conservative, he's aggressive, all things to all people.  ?  But there are actual people on this board who do think Alex isn't good, I've read those posts.  I am not among those people. 

 

I think he's the next tier of QBs -- the good ones and its not easy to find good QBs.  My beef with the trade was Alex's age matched to our roster - but like I said then heck if they do things they haven't done in eons like actually make the playoffs and win a playoff game, then in theory for me at least it worked out.  If they go 8-8 or whatever and tread water while he's here. I don't think it was a smart trade.

 

The points below I agree with.  Alex is conservative, doesn't make many mistakes and manages the game well.  It's the perfect formula if you have a good defense and surround him with weapons especially at RB.  If you have a strong roster, Alex is the perfect type of QB to keep that type of engine humming, the trains run on time and ensure the train isn't derailed. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2018/09/11/why-alex-smith-is-a-perfect-fit-for-the-redskins-offense/?utm_term=.5b0d93cf3a5d

The term “game manager” gets thrown around the NFL as a disparaging description for quarterbacks who aren’t blessed with being Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. However, there are many examples of the qualities possessed by QBs given that label — taking care of the football, putting more emphasis on shorter passes than deep ones — being a blueprint for success. After a season-opening win over the Cardinals, this appears to be the case for Alex Smith and the Redskins.

MOLK7YH6LI2HZLJS2KX5FUJB4M.jpg

Smith has always been one of the most conservative passers in the league, but the benefit of that is that he puts the ball in harm’s way less often than almost any other quarterback, which gives you a great platform to win games if the rest of the roster is up to the task.

 

Since he came into the league, Smith owns the lowest average depth of target of any quarterback with at least two full seasons worth of play. His average pass travels just 7.7 yards downfield — that’s more than three full yards per pass closer to the line of scrimmage than the most aggressive QBs over that time span.

 

Against Arizona on Sunday, we saw an even more extreme type of conservatism from Smith. His average depth of target was just 3.5 yards downfield, and his lone deep shot was negated by a penalty. In terms of plays that actually counted, he didn’t have a pass travel further than 12 yards past the line of scrimmage.

But, most importantly for Washington, it worked.

 

....Which of course brings us back to the player responsible for tying everything together. Smith won’t ever be an aggressive quarterback, nor will he be Brady or Rodgers. But he is a good quarterback, and very effective at the style of play he has evolved into over the years. His overall PFF grade since the beginning of the 2016 season is 85.4 (on a 0-100 scale), which ranks seventh in the league, but he has been exposed at times when the task of victory presented to him was simply too much to manage on his own.

As long as Smith isn’t asked to carry his team to victory, he can be a part of a good, winning football team. That’s why he’s the perfect quarterback for this 2018 Redskins team, which after one week appears to be  very strong.

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@Skinsinparadise

 

Something else to consider about Alex Smiths game, how it fits with the Redskins, and how it it can make this team better.

 

From someone that likes Kirk Cousins.

 

People have chaffed at the "game manager" moniker on Smith, but it's accurate. But in a good way. Smith is very accurate (like Cousins) but he doesn't try to do too much. Smith will check down on 3rd and 8 if it's not there, punt, and live to fight another day. Cousins is more of a gunslinger, and will more likely press the issue, which may get the 1st down, or create a turnover.

 

For all the debatable issues in the Cousins vs. Smith debate, turnovers is not something that is debatable. Smith is simply one of the best to ever play when it comes to NOT turning the ball over. Cousins, when he has a healthy OL, is good. Smith is simply on a different level.

 

So, opposing teams KNOW that winning the turnover battle is going to be very, very tough. Late in a game, when they are down, and need a turnover, they know it's simply very unlikely to happen. And that is demoralizing.

 

Smiths effects on the running game stresses the Defense. Having to account for him, AND a rejuvenated running game, courtesy of Adrian Peterson and CT, is going to wear a defense out. Not just physically, but mentally. You have the ability to create looks that put pressure on the D, and Smith can, with his legs, add another dimension to the rushing attack that puts the defense in a state of stress. Because you don't know when it's coming, and Smith is very good at it and very tough to defend. Cousins, being fairly athletic could do some of this, on called plays. But off script he was far more likely to try to make a play with his arm. Smith will pull it down and get yardage. We saw this several times on Sunday.

 

Smith does not take many chances. This creates methodical drives that eat up the clock and wear out a defense. With no real chance of creating a turnover. If you have a strong rushing attack, and with AD and Thompson, if these guys stay healthy, this is one of the better 1-2 punches in the league, with a OL that  is physical, this is a excellent way to win games. It works indoors and out. It works in rain, wind, and cold. And it physically beats your opposing defense into the ground, and gives them no hope of getting something to change the tide, other than a 3 and out.

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34 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

For all the debatable issues in the Cousins vs. Smith debate, turnovers is not something that is debatable. Smith is simply one of the best to ever play when it comes to NOT turning the ball over. Cousins, when he has a healthy OL, is good. Smith is simply on a different level.

 

So, opposing teams KNOW that winning the turnover battle is going to be very, very tough. Late in a game, when they are down, and need a turnover, they know it's simply very unlikely to happen. And that is demoralizing.

 

So by extension, I would extrapolate the opposing teams game plan this team differently with less exotic blitzes and maybe keep more pass defense talent in the game allowing the run game to tick up vs blitzes and pass rush pressure given Alex has seen/will see and adapt and burn the D more often than the D will get to Alex. Cousins could be rattled (especially in the Red Zone) which WAS one of my two complaints..he pressed when he didn't need to and didn't press (slow starter) at beginning of games..very risk adverse until desperation took hold and he had to do something. So I don't think the gunslinger moniker totally fits just MHO BUT I think he could have been and will be coached out of those tendencies and be very good in the end.

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2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

Something else to consider about Alex Smiths game, how it fits with the Redskins, and how it it can make this team better.

 

From someone that likes Kirk Cousins.

 

People have chaffed at the "game manager" moniker on Smith, but it's accurate. But in a good way. Smith is very accurate (like Cousins) but he doesn't try to do too much. Smith will check down on 3rd and 8 if it's not there, punt, and live to fight another day. Cousins is more of a gunslinger, and will more likely press the issue, which may get the 1st down, or create a turnover.

 

For all the debatable issues in the Cousins vs. Smith debate, turnovers is not something that is debatable. Smith is simply one of the best to ever play when it comes to NOT turning the ball over. Cousins, when he has a healthy OL, is good. Smith is simply on a different level.

 

So, opposing teams KNOW that winning the turnover battle is going to be very, very tough. Late in a game, when they are down, and need a turnover, they know it's simply very unlikely to happen. And that is demoralizing.

 

 

I agree, that's why like I said if the game turns to a shoot out, I trust Kirk more.  As Andy Benoit (oddly former critic of Kirk) likes to say Kirk will go for the jugular and take more chances than Alex.  On the flip side, there is a downside to taking more chances, too.  I think Cooley nailed it in his film review of the both of them after the trade was made -- Alex could use some Kirk in him, Kirk could use some Alex in him.  But I think they are both are winning-playoff Qbs for different reasons.  I'd have been perfectly fine for the Kirk-Alex swap if they were the same age but alas they are not.

 

1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

So by extension, I would extrapolate the opposing teams game plan this team differently with less exotic blitzes and maybe keep more pass defense talent in the game allowing the run game to tick up vs blitzes and pass rush pressure given Alex has seen/will see and adapt and burn the D more often than the D will get to Alex. Cousins could be rattled (especially in the Red Zone) which WAS one of my two complaints..he pressed when he didn't need to and didn't press (slow starter) at beginning of games..very risk adverse until desperation took hold and he had to do something. So I don't think the gunslinger moniker totally fits just MHO BUT I think he could have been and will be coached out of those tendencies and be very good in the end.

 

Yeah I don't think gunslinger fits Kirk either -- just in the context of Alex, he's more of a gun slinger.  Ironically both Kirk and Alex are labeled as Qbs who struggle in the red zone, both of them have had bad years at it.  Kirk was at his best in that regard in 2015 -- and I think a lot of that had to do with Jordan Reed being healthy.  As for Alex's struggles in the red zone, I've never dived deep into the causes. 

 

Personally am I run the ball kind of guy in the red zone so I think if the running games are humming that should help.

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From all that I hear and read from Alex’s  words, he respects that each game is its own entity and it will require him to adjust. My hope is Alex continues to get better with age at understanding situationally he must adjust play style and get ball down field. 

 

His legs and willingness to extend plays allows for him to naturally become a playmaker. Point being, it’s not always going to be him needing to make “higher risk throws” (something we know he’s not most comfortable with) to convert. 

 

None the less, still need to see more to come any sort of conclusion on my part. Just enjoy discussion as we observe from week to week. 

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2 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

So by extension, I would extrapolate the opposing teams game plan this team differently with less exotic blitzes and maybe keep more pass defense talent in the game allowing the run game to tick up vs blitzes and pass rush pressure given Alex has seen/will see and adapt and burn the D more often than the D will get to Alex. Cousins could be rattled (especially in the Red Zone) which WAS one of my two complaints..he pressed when he didn't need to and didn't press (slow starter) at beginning of games..very risk adverse until desperation took hold and he had to do something. So I don't think the gunslinger moniker totally fits just MHO BUT I think he could have been and will be coached out of those tendencies and be very good in the end.

 

I'm really not sure of some what what you're trying to say here. I also disagree with the bolded statement. I think Kirk pressed, especially in the Redzone. But I think he had reasons to. Two reasons, in fact.

1. He knew that we were not going to score running the ball

2. He knew the Defense wasn't going to stop anyone.

 

So, his thinking was we need TD's not FG's. And he pressed. I saw it. But I also knew we have almost zero chance of punching a rushing TD in, especially once we got to the 10.

 

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree, that's why like I said if the game turns to a shoot out, I trust Kirk more.  As Andy Benoit (oddly former critic of Kirk) likes to say Kirk will go for the jugular and take more chances than Alex.  On the flip side, there is a downside to taking more chances, too.  I think Cooley nailed it in his film review of the both of them after the trade was made -- Alex could use some Kirk in him, Kirk could use some Alex in him.  But I think they are both are winning-playoff Qbs for different reasons.  I'd have been perfectly fine for the Kirk-Alex swap if they were the same age but alas they are not.

 

 

Yeah I don't think gunslinger fits Kirk either -- just in the context of Alex, he's more of a gun slinger.  Ironically both Kirk and Alex are labeled as Qbs who struggle in the red zone, both of them have had bad years at it.  Kirk was at his best in that regard in 2015 -- and I think a lot of that had to do with Jordan Reed being healthy.  As for Alex's struggles in the red zone, I've never dived deep into the causes. 

 

Personally am I run the ball kind of guy in the red zone so I think if the running games are humming that should help.

 

Yeah, if we get in a game where the Defense is not playing well, and we get behind, I don't see Smith being able to throw us back into the game very often. I also think the WR group we have is not going to help him very much. He's not the kind of QB that is going to make a average WR good.

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ASHBURN, Va. -- The Washington Redskins made several moves this offseason to improve their running game. It might turn out that the biggest move was for quarterback Alex Smith.

 

After they traded for Smith, they started studying how teams used mobile quarterbacks and implemented more run-pass options and zone-read plays. The result: 182 yards rushing on 42 carries in the season-opening victory Sunday at Arizona.

 

On Sunday against the Indianapolis Colts, the Redskins will try to sustain that momentum. The Colts allowed Cincinnati’s Joe Mixon to rush for 95 yards on 17 carries in a Week 1 loss.

“We adjusted our run game and will continue to adjust,” Redskins coach Jay Gruden said. “It could look totally different. It could be nonexistent.”

 

Colts coach Frank Reich knows this strategy well. He called these run-pass option plays often as the offensive coordinator in Philadelphia last year. He said more teams are using creative looks in the run game. So the Colts' defense, like Washington's, has seen this tactic all summer in camp.

“There's so many different variations to the RPO game," Reich said. "It's almost endless, and I'm already seeing so many more teams and so many more plays that are incorporating that. It's pretty remarkable."

 

....The Redskins are using more jet-sweep action and have receivers run in motion as if on an end-around. They’ll use zone-read action to freeze a backside defender. The Redskins have used some of these strategies in the past, but it was more evident Sunday.

“A lot of times, that backside end is hard to cut off, especially against some 4-3 teams,” Gruden said. “At least you’re taking someone out of the equation, where if you just turn and hand the ball off, they’re all flying over there. ... We’re just trying to slow backside pursuit just a little bit.”

 

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/37144/alex-smith-carries-out-transformation-of-redskins-run-game

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On 9/10/2018 at 11:44 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

"Let's all get behind the starting QB of the team we root for!"

 

Group response: Ok!

 

/Thread

 

Shrug. 

 

:)

 

EDIT: I'm not suggesting closing the thread, I'm just baffled how anybody would NOT be behind the starting QB of the Redskins. 

 

Even Grossman and JC I was behind.  It would have been difficult, but I PROBABLY could have gotten behind Colt Brennan. 

 

 

John Beck?

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It’s not that Alex can’t produce come from behind wins... It’s that the way he plays the game is a control based identity based on percentages.  Kind of like a Boa Constrictor.   In those 13 passes straight he connected the other day, combined with being the Maestro for peterson pre snap...   3 drives of what..  70,84, & 90 yards?

 

Think about the opposing QB and the opposing offense.  It’s halftime and they feel like the haven’t even started the game yet.  

 

So...  When teams have success with their early chances Smith stays cool and probably doesn’t risk much, it’s when guys like Brady have early success and then double up on it that it strikes fear into the Alex fans etc.

 

He’s always had the deep ball...  straight up..  problem is getting him to throw it.   Isaac Bruce was on the radio in SF about a decade ago (I’m sick, I know :D ) and the host asked him how come Alex “couldn’t” throw the deep ball.

 

Bruce was bewildered...  the host pressed him..  he just reared back around and said “look man, the guy was #1 pick for a reason, things like that don’t happen on accident, the guy throws the ball to me every day in practice and I can tell you matter of fact he can make any type of throw you want and put it on the money.”

 

he’s getting better at seeing the deep ball pre snap and going for it, I hope to see more, it’s the one thing that eluded the guy for years.  Urban Meyer was very poignant about Alex when he got drafted saying that for him to be effective at all he would need to understand the whole playbook, but if he could accomplish that he would be a huge threat etc.  

 

the thing I love about Alex’s deep ball as of late...  it’s doesn’t seem to be just taking a shot here or there when the “time is right”, it’s that he is working it within his whole framework and once the D starts biting on the horizontal game he has more moxie these days to try to bury the dagger and hurt the D for getting too close.

 

Coming from behind is not Alex’s “style”, but it’s worth mentioning he’s tied with Joe Montana for the most comebacks in a single season as a 9er with 4.   He can pull it off if the table is set for it.  

Teams have to force him to come out of his shell, because he is happy to grind them out and watch them make mistakes to try to keep up.  That’s why he wins so many games.  whatever the mythical “shootout” is anyways, right?   Smith has beaten every elite qb left in the entire league I’m pretty sure.  Manning eluded hin for a looooong time though.

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If Alex can give us a 4,000, 25 total TD, 10int, 65% completion I don't know how we miss the playoffs.  

 

It appears he has already developed good chemistry with Reed, Davis and Thompson.  With Richardson and Crowder being the type of WRs that he has had success i expect th em to have solid years.  The guy who I see struggling this year is Doctson.  He doesn't fit Smith bc he is not a jumpball QB

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46 minutes ago, HogRoast said:

If Alex can give us a 4,000, 25 total TD, 10int, 65% completion I don't know how we miss the playoffs.  

 

It appears he has already developed good chemistry with Reed, Davis and Thompson.  With Richardson and Crowder being the type of WRs that he has had success i expect th em to have solid years.  The guy who I see struggling this year is Doctson.  He doesn't fit Smith bc he is not a jumpball QB

 

Yards and TDs are high, as in they would be  basically tying the best he's ever done. I don't expect those. INT's is high as well, he will likely throw less. The last time he had double digit INT's was 2011. I see something like 3500 yards, 20 TD's, 7 INT's and say 66% completion %

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Its all about the supporting cast around him being healthy, primarily Reed and Thompson. Smith is always at his best when he's got a real good TE and good run game. See his 9ers teams with Davis and Gore and last year with Kelce and Hunt(and earlier in his KC career with Charles instead of Hunt).

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4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its all about the supporting cast around him being healthy, primarily Reed and Thompson. Smith is always at his best when he's got a real good TE and good run game. See his 9ers teams with Davis and Gore and last year with Kelce and Hunt(and earlier in his KC career with Charles instead of Hunt).

 

This seems to be what some were saying all along.

 

There always seemed to be so much scrutiny and concern over the QB.

 

Instead, the focus should have been and still should be the positions around the QB. This should be all the more true now, since this QB always has so few back-breaking turnovers.

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2 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

This seems to be what some were saying all along.

 

There always seemed to be so much scrutiny and concern over the QB.

 

Instead, the focus should have been and still should be the positions around the QB. This should be all the more true now, since this QB always has so few back-breaking turnovers.

Yep. Thats true for most QBs even in the 2nd to 3rd tier(I think Smith is in that range but closer to 2nd tier). I think the only QBs that can seemingly get by with nothing are Rodgers and Brady. Even Brees without a run game went 7-9 for three straight years.

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1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. Thats true for most QBs even in the 2nd to 3rd tier(I think Smith is in that range but closer to 2nd tier). I think the only QBs that can seemingly get by with nothing are Rodgers and Brady. Even Brees without a run game went 7-9 for three straight years.

 

That's fine. I would firmly put Smith into the 2nd tier, but my idea of who belongs in that 2nd tier makes it a vast one anyway. 

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2 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

That's fine. I would firmly put Smith into the 2nd tier, but my idea of who belongs in that 2nd tier makes it a vast one anyway. 

 

I agree. And Smith is kinda a odd bird as well. He's not going to make a lot of jaw dropping throws, but he's not going to throw a INT either.

And it's not like he doesn't have arm talent, he just is a conservative QB.

I'm not sure if this was a conscious plan with Jay to do so, but it seems like we've  decided to put a team around that will maximize Smith. Strong Defense, strong running attack and a efficient Offense is what Smith excels at. He is at his best on this type of team, and I think he can be very successful here.

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2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I agree. And Smith is kinda a odd bird as well. He's not going to make a lot of jaw dropping throws, but he's not going to throw a INT either.

And it's not like he doesn't have arm talent, he just is a conservative QB.

I'm not sure if this was a conscious plan with Jay to do so, but it seems like we've  decided to put a team around that will maximize Smith. Strong Defense, strong running attack and a efficient Offense is what Smith excels at. He is at his best on this type of team, and I think he can be very successful here.

 

I agree, Morneblade. 

 

Smith does seem to walk to a different tune than other QBs. There was an article I read a month or two ago about him. It was in reference to a Cam Newton thing, lemme see if I can find it. It was old, and I just stumbled upon it while googling something.

 

Yes, found it.

Alex Smith 'could care less' about stats, rips Panthers, Cam Newton for 'not winning'

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/alex-smith-could-care-less-about-stats-rips-panthers-cam-newton-for-not-winning/

 

Quote

They were not slinging the ball all over the place, as proven by Alex Smith's 196.5 passing-yards-per-game average. But please don't mention that to Smith, because stats are for losers and he doesn't care about yards per game and-oh-by-the-way Cam Newton is a loser. What?

"I could absolutely care less on yards per game," Smith said, per our 49ers Rapid Reporter Kyle Bonagura. "I think that is a totally overblown stat because if you’re losing games in the second half, guess what, you’re like the Carolina Panthers and you’re going no-huddle the entire second half. Yeah, Cam Newton threw for a lot of 300-yard games. "That’s great. You’re not winning, though."  "We’re up in the third and fourth quarter and naturally you’re going to be in four-minute offense," Smith said. "You’re going to be grinding it out. You’re going to be running the ball a lot more and you’re not going to have as many 300-yard passing games."  

 

So here is what I take from this. Wins are all that matters to him. He takes a hard look at how his defense is doing, and adjusts accordingly to this. If he believes in his defense? He plays small ball conservative. If, like last season, he doesn't believe in his defense? then he will take more aggression out onto the field for the offense. 
 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I agree, Morneblade. 

 

"Swoon" :D

 

Quote

Smith does seem to walk to a different tune than other QBs. There was an article I read a month or two ago about him. It was in reference to a Cam Newton thing, lemme see if I can find it. It was old, and I just stumbled upon it while googling something.

 

Yes, found it.

Alex Smith 'could care less' about stats, rips Panthers, Cam Newton for 'not winning'

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/alex-smith-could-care-less-about-stats-rips-panthers-cam-newton-for-not-winning/

 

 

So here is what I take from this. Wins are all that matters to him. He takes a hard look at how his defense is doing, and adjusts accordingly to this. If he believes in his defense? He plays small ball conservative. If, like last season, he doesn't believe in his defense? then he will take more aggression out onto the field for the offense. 
 

 

 

 

Good find. Unlike a lot of people, I really don't mind that kind of offense. I don't need the QB to be slinging it everywhere. I want to move the chains, get first downs, eat up the clock, and score. Pair that with a stout D, and you have a very tough team to beat, that can win in any weather conditions.

 

It's kinda ironic. I would MUCH prefer this kind of team than what we've had in recent past, a QB throwing the ball all the time, no running game, and no defense so you're in shootouts. Nothing gives me more pleasure that seeing my team methodically move the ball down the field, take 7 minutes to do so, and score points. Then have the D get a 3 and out. The Cards game is EXACTLY what the Redskins to look like.

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