Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[BurgundyMalaise]

11 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Tyreek Hill is the fastest guy in the league, it's really hard to overthrow him even if he's not 6'4"

 

I understand that but putting it on a guy with a few steps on his defender shouldn't be some super difficult pass is all I'm saying. Crowder doesn't have really long arms but he was open

[Morneblade]

Just now, MondayNightCowboyKilla89 said:

 

I understand that but putting it on a guy with a few steps on his defender shouldn't be some super difficult pass is all I'm saying. Crowder doesn't have really long arms but he was open

 

I agree, actually. I think one of the issues with Smith and his deep ball is that he throws it relatively flat. That makes it a little less friendly, as you need to be more accurate with it. There is less margin for error.

 

Up until last year, Smith was one of the lowest % deep ball throwers in the league. Then he got a guy that can make those flat throws not as difficult because he can run them down. Richardson is the only guy on the team that has that kind of speed, but he's not even that close to Hill.

 

To be more accurate, Smith needs to put more air under the ball, as this allows WR's to make more adjustments to it. At this stage of the game, however, I don't think that is going to happen.

 

We just need to accept that, and figure that we need to be more consistent with a short passing game and getting more yardage running the football.

 

 

[Wyvern]

Richardson does not equal Hill.  And Doctson doesn't seem to be able to create separation as a WR.  He's been very disappointing.

[Sandy Monk]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I agree, actually. I think one of the issues with Smith and his deep ball is that he throws it relatively flat. That makes it a little less friendly, as you need to be more accurate with it. There is less margin for error.

 

Up until last year, Smith was one of the lowest % deep ball throwers in the league. Then he got a guy that can make those flat throws not as difficult because he can run them down. Richardson is the only guy on the team that has that kind of speed, but he's not even that close to Hill.

 

To be more accurate, Smith needs to put more air under the ball, as this allows WR's to make more adjustments to it. At this stage of the game, however, I don't think that is going to happen.

 

We just need to accept that, and figure that we need to be more consistent with a short passing game and getting more yardage running the football.

 

 

 

A pretty significant correction, and others can do the math to verify, but Smith's downfield accuracy numbers have been good. The less than ideal has been the volume of attempts. 

[NoCalMike]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Can’t argue that too much but Kirk still has another level to his game he can potentially reach.  Smith we knew what his ceiling was and and to get to that ceiling you need weapons that we don’t have.

 

The reason I wasn’t elated with last weeks game is because I knew this game was in there somewhere.  I like Smith in games where we control the tempo and can run the ball.  But when you have to sling it around the yard, I just don’t have any confidence he’s going to do that.

 

Smith essentially had a 49ers team on the verge of the Superbowl with a good running game and Vernon Davis.  So he has at least shown he can win those kinds of games on the right team(s).   I think Cousins can too, but that day has yet to come thus far. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am hoping and expecting this game was an aberration, it was one of the most putrid performances from the offense at full strength that I've seen in years.  I noticed, Keim, Hoffman, Finaly who were at the game criticized for Alex for now throwing to receivers who were open deeper then where he checked down.  I'll watch the coaches tape on it when its up.  I know all QBs miss throwing to open receivers who are deeper -- but it struck me that multiple beat guys are circling around that point so I am wondering if that's a narrative this week.

 

If who we saw this week is what this team is especially on offense -- to me this is a 4-12, 5-11 kind of team. The Rams beating Arizona 34-0 also helps solidify that maybe the Redskins just beat a bad team that's worst than them.   However, its just one game -- so I'll give them a pass that its an exception versus the norm.  Lets see what they do next week.    I've said all off season its a hard team for me to get a handle on -- bad team, mediocre team, good team -- all seemed plausible to me.  Only thing I was totally sold on is that it isn't a great team.  I am sticking to somewhere between mediocre and good. 

 

And as for Alex -- IMO the dude isn't great.  I think the idea that the dude is just a winner is silly.  But that has nothing to do with him -- its all about what I think about football being a team sport.  I still think Kirk is better than him but not by a mile.  But I do think the dude is good and if his supporting cast excels so will he.  Hopefully some of the receivers start emerging.  And we can reignite the running game and if so I think Alex will play well. 

 

Grant Paulsen‏Verified account @granthpaulsen 11m11 minutes ago

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Today marked the first time the #Redskins were held under 10 points and without a touchdown since December of 2014 when Colt McCoy and Robert Griffin were blanked by the Rams.

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

9 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

To be more accurate, Smith needs to put more air under the ball, as this allows WR's to make more adjustments to it. At this stage of the game, however, I don't think that is going to happen.

 

He can go for distance or height. He doesn’t have the arm strength to do both. If you want a 35+ yard pass, he can crank 2-3 of those out a game but they’re gonna be on ropes. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

A pretty significant correction, and others can do the math to verify, but Smith's downfield accuracy numbers have been good. The less than ideal has been the volume of attempts. 

 

I think this a good summation of Alex. Last year in particular he was accurate downfield.  His critics say he's gun shy to throw downfield though.  Some beat guys I noticed slammed him for it today.   Though Jay said today he thought they were too aggressive going downfield because the Colts were playing cover 2 a lot.  I don't get that but I guess I have to watch the game again.

 

i am a big Jay guy as many here know.  But I put this more on Jay's game planning.  I noticed Hoffman took Jay off the hook and put it more on Alex. Not sure I agree.  I also put in on the O line -- a horrific performance from them IMO. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

6 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Smith essentially had a 49ers team on the verge of the Superbowl with a good running game and Vernon Davis.  So he has at least shown he can win those kinds of games on the right team(s).   I think Cousins can too, but that day has yet to come thus far. 

 

They also had the best defense in the league and a great running attack. Not to mention Harbaugh would coach circles around Jay  

[Sandy Monk]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think this a good summation of Alex. Last year in particular he was accurate downfield.  His critics say he's gun shy to throw downfield though.  Some beat guys I noticed slammed him for it today.   Though Jay said today he thought they were too aggressive going downfield because the Colts were playing cover 2 a lot.  I don't get that but I guess I have to watch the game again.

 

i am a big Jay guy as many here know.  But I put this more on Jay's game planning.  I noticed Hoffman took Jay off the hook and put it more on Alex.  I also put in on the O line -- a horrific performance from them IMO. 

 

See, that's the thing for me. ANY time one can say the OL performance was horrific? That makes any following QB criticisms pretty pointless. 

 

QBs need their OL to be good. Short of that? they need excellent receiving help or run game help. If anyone can say that was available? shout it out. 

[PortisBetts]

The ****ing calls on offense were horrific and add in ****ty drops by doctors a Richardson and this is what you get. 

 

I cannot still understand how Peterson out of shotgun running an outside zone and chris Thompson going straight up the a gap is putting players in a position to succeed.

 

It isnt to me. It the opposite of that. Players put in a position to fail and they did. 

 

No one came to play, which is a consistent theme under gruden. 

[ncr2h]

14 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I put Smith in the same tier as Cousins, you can with them, but not because of them.

 

Just taking a random day of Cousins' career - today. Cousins went 35/48 for 425 yards (8.9 y/a), 4 TDs, 1 INT, and 2 sacks (9.6 AY/A). His team tied because his kicker missed 3 FGs, including a 35 yard chip shot that would have sealed the comeback win.

 

Alex Smith is 1-8 when throwing 45+ passes in a game, has never thrown for more than 400 yards, has just 3 games where he's thrown 4+ TDs, and has just 3 games in his career where he's attempted 35+ passes and achieved 9+ AY/A efficiency. In contrast, despite a much shorter career, this is already Cousins' 4th time over 400 yards, 4th time of 4+ TDs, and 6th time throwing for 9+ AY/A on 35+ attempts (essentially his 7th - he has one game of 8.97 on 36 attempts). If Smith had the game that Cousins did today, it would have been the second or third best performance of his career. For Cousins, this game will soon be forgotten.

 

Cousins and Smith are polar opposites - I am tired of them being thrown in the same category. Cousins is an elite pocket QB who has had the misfortune of playing for the Redskins for most of his career, dampening his overall career W/L. Smith is a journeyman QB who has had the privilege of playing with stacked teams for most of his career, but who unfortunately now has to face the reality that he's with the Redskins. Unfortunately for him, he has enough talent at the skill positions (top 3 TE, upper tier receiver at RB, top tier #2 TE, top tier slot WR) where there really shouldn't be any excuse to not put up numbers on offense. The real weakness of this team is the defense and run game, both of which have little to do with QB.

[Veryoldschool]

I think we all overreacted after the win last week now the Skins looked bad but we shouldn't overreact to this defeat. Most of us expected this team to be just a little better than .500 so no time for overreaction after 1 loss.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

1 minute ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

See, that's the thing for me. ANY time one can say the OL performance was horrific? That makes any following QB criticisms pretty pointless. 

 

QBs need their OL to be good. Short of that? they need excellent receiving help or run game help. If anyone can say that was available? shout it out. 

 

I am not at the game so its hard to see what's going on with how plays were developing.  I noticed three beat guys who were at the stadium including Keim who is typically pretty positive thought Alex checked down when he shouldn't too many times.  But I got no way to have their perspective unless I watch coaches film where you can see how plays develop. 

 

I was at the Arizona game and in a good position to see plays develop (and watched him practice pregame) and watched the game again on coaches tape -- it doesn't make me an expert even a little but in my own way I can look and judge and form an opinion from a layperson's point of view -- Alex looked to me how i thought he was, conservative, adds to the run game, nice touch on short-intermediate throws -- and I saw things that I wasn't impressed with which I won't list here because some people can get really upset about it and I am not in the mood for that. 

 

Alex struck me a good QB -- above average and nothing special.  I think you can win with him if the run game is humming and his play makers are playing well around him.  That didn't happen today. 

[JSSkinz]

There's no way in hell I'm putting this on Alex based on what I watched today, Alex isn't great but man he didn't have much help when it came to pass pro, a couple big drops, and no run game, remember Kirk always had good pass pro when he was here.

 

I'll be looking forward to reviewing the tape.

 

[Sandy Monk]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Alex struck me a good QB -- above average and nothing special.  I think you can win with him if the run game is humming and his play makers are playing well around him.  That didn't happen today. 

 

I agree. It's fun and expected though that people that feel this way about him (or think less even) are ready to kill him for not being elite all the sudden to save the team when they so royally sucked. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, JSSkinz said:

There's no way in hell I'm putting this on Alex based on what I watched today, Alex isn't great but man he didn't have much help when it came to pass pro, a couple big drops, and no run game, remember Kirk always had good pass pro when he was here.

 

I'll be looking forward to reviewing the tape.

 

 

Actually Kirk didn't always have pass pro, especially not last year when the O line got banged up.  Kirk though never had a good running game.  Alex did have a good running game last Sunday but not today.    I put this mostly on game planning/O line.   

[HOF44]

Griffin, Oline Sucks!!  Cousins, O line Great!  Smith Oline Sucks!!  Maybe it’s more a function of the QB Oline combo than just the Oline. 

[JSSkinz]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Actually Kirk didn't always have pass pro, especially not last year when the O line got banged up.  Kirk though never had a good running game.  Alex did have a good running game last Sunday but not today.    I put this mostly on game planning/O line.   

He had very good pass pro in 2015 and 2016 and up until the injuries last year.

[skins4eva]

16 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

I think we all overreacted after the win last week now the Skins looked bad but we shouldn't overreact to this defeat. Most of us expected this team to be just a little better than .500 so no time for overreaction after 1 loss.

 

Theres no room for your level-headed analysis on this board, sir. 

 

Even if I were to agree with you, this is year 5 of the Gruden experiment and we are going nowhere. That means the experiment needs to end. 

[petedaddy]

 

let's throw the ball downfield

 

Or thread the ball between two guys - Kirk even learned how to throw a fade in Minnesota!!!

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The Oline was bad today all around.  No arguing that.  I knew the moment I applauded Lavaou last week that he’d show me up by folding this week.  I still didn’t think the Colts Dline would whoop them off the ball like they did.

 

That said, I think Kirk made the pass pro look better than it actually is. He’s quick and decisive, which can at times be his Achilles heel.

[NoCalMike]

I will say the most impressive throw of the day for me from Alex was the deeper-ish one to Reed where he threaded a needle based on where Reed was going to.  It was an anticipation throw and that's one thing it seemed like Cousins didn't like to do.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I agree. It's fun and expected though that people that feel this way about him (or think less even) are ready to kill him for not being elite all the sudden to save the team when they so royally sucked. 

 

It was part of my mantra during the off season, I said if people are going to lionize Alex as the be all and end all -- you are likely going to be disappointed.  I actually said I thought I was being nicer to Alex by describing him the way he's typically described so people aren't ultimately let down -- a good QB who adds to the running game, who manages a game well and doesn't make mistakes that often.  

 

Some have him as this world beater type, who does just about everything well.   That's not his rep though.

 

I am a team guy just in general when it comes to QBs.  I hate the whole the QBs wins and loses games mantra.  I think the QB is part of the symphony -- granted the key part but not the only part.  I get the some QBs have more of a clutch gene than others -- but Alex's rep isn't either of being this big time clutch guy.   His rep is he's a great person and will play well typically -- rarely bad, rarely great. 

 

I think my only difference with you on the subject is this - I can't stand Bruce -- and if Kirk excels and it costs Bruce his job, I am all for it and tenfold.  That has nothing to do with Alex.  That's all about Bruce.  Yes, I do think Kirk is better than Alex.   But I only care about that point in the context of Bruce.  Once a player leaves the team, I don't care about them.  But if Kirk succeeds and that costs Bruce his job -- I am all for seeing it happen.  That's the extenuating circumstances for me relating to Kirk not Alex.

 

But back to Alex, I got to see a larger sample size to make my own mind about him beyond what others have said about him.  He needs time IMO to jell with his receivers and master this offense.   I am hoping this game was a one time thing because otherwise this offense is awful.  And if so that's not all on the QB.   But I suspect its an aberration.

[JSSkinz]

8 minutes ago, petedaddy said:

 

let's throw the ball downfield

 

Or thread the ball between two guys - Kirk even learned how to throw a fade in Minnesota!!!

 

Why troll, I watched the game and Kirk threw 2 picks at the end and was given life by a terrible call.  He's a good QB but he blew that game today and was saved by a higher power. 

 

The 2nd INT was as bad as they get, just a prayer that had no chance of being caught.