Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

You know I was high on Alex. I mean he had a great year last year and i was all about him coming here. After seeing tonights performance I don't know now. 

 

I know its preseason but man he looked bad in the pocket and after looking at his career stats. I've got a really bad feeling about this offense with him as QB. 

 

 

 

Couple of things to take here

1. Denver is stout Defensively

2. Alex is in a new system and new team mates, and it's going to take some time and reps to get there. He has not had them, and I think he should have started in the 1st game, played at least 2 series in the 2nd game, and played at least the first half of game 3, if not getting a additional drive in the 3rd quarter. Jay is doing Smith a disservice by not getting him reps in these games. Everything here is new, and even as a vet it takes some time to get chemistry, and really feel comfortable with the plays. I saw him looking like he wasn't sure where to go and very uncomfortable in the pocket. I honestly think this is because he has not gotten the live reps he needs. The 1st team needed a lot more time together than they got. And I think it's going to hurt us the first few games of the year.

3. People don't like it when I say that Smith is a good, not great QB. I think his last several years with KC show he is accurate and doesn't make mistakes. Tonight he did not look good, but he is usually much better. He was off tonight on passes he usually does not miss. Even the ones he connected on were off, I expect that to get better. Tonight was not what you should expect. He will be much better once he feels comfortable with the plays and the players.

4.I was more let down by the defense, to be honest. Not only did they not do much against the pass, but the run D wasn't not very good, against a team that has their fair share of RB woes. They did a poor job everywhere.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

2. Alex is in a new system and new team mates...

 

Keenum would disagree with you here. He looked pretty good out there and very comfortable with his new team mates. Smith hasn't done anything in his playing career to say wow look at that QB. I have never been high on him, and that was way before he came here. I have my doubts. Hope he can prove me and other who might feel this way wrong. 

[Sandy Monk]

6 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

You know I was high on Alex. I mean he had a great year last year and i was all about him coming here. After seeing tonights performance I don't know now. 

 

I know its preseason but man he looked bad in the pocket and after looking at his career stats. I've got a really bad feeling about this offense with him as QB. 

 

 

 

From what I could see on my stream(s), I was underwhelmed. I liked the mobility and extension of the first drive, 3rd down play that Vernon dropped on the sideline. I mean, Smith can't catch the ball for his dudes. That's one drive flushed down the drain. I know there was another drive killed by an incompletion on a tipped pass as he was stepping through the pocket to evade the outer rush. I know he completed another potential conversion pass to Vernon, but VD ran thr route a yard shy of the sticks. 

 

I didn't really see that last drive of his, the stream died. Heard it was somewhat better? 

 

Anyway, I don't think preseason is a good test for someone like Smith. He likes to know the plays thoroughly, and in preseason, most coaches don't really use the plays they plan to install for regular season games. So what they used was probably just slop thrown together, which can make all offense look unsure and off. 

 

I'm only interested in what happens when the games matter. Ready for the preseason drama to end already. 

 

AD looked like the real deal though, preseason or not, you could tell! That is the big news!   

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Maybe you don't mean it this way, but it's really starting to come off as if you think people are actively trying to change your opinions. And that you only appreciate people who spend time digesting film or predicting things before they happen. If I disagree with something, I'm going to say it as you know. But that's not me telling you to change your mind, it's just me saying I disagree and here's why I think you're wrong. Maybe our front 7 will be elite this year and one day you'll recognize me for convincing you of something before it actually happened.

 

 

Well, specifically as to you -- you keep coming after me with how can I think the front 7 is only good because in your mind its great as if there is something wrong with my opinion  I already got what you think. But you keep bringing it up.   If its not to convince me then why throw the point back at me multiple times including the other day with PFF stats in a post to someone else where you bring up my name? 

 

I don't mind it.  But it comes off like either you are trying to convince me or other people that I am wrong.  But my answer to that is I am not wrong.  It's a prediction.  It's not science there is no right or wrong answer to predicting the D line.  It's just a prediction.  Like every year, I'll get some predictions right and some wrong.  That's why I keep going who cares as to belaboring it.  Once our predictions are out there who cares after that -- I don't find them that interesting.   Some will end up right, some will end up wrong.
 

11 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Maybe our front 7 will be elite this year and one day you'll recognize me for convincing you of something before it actually happened.

 

 

Ok noted.  If they are elite I'll give you a nod. ?  I've done it before when people get something right.  Heck I used to have epic debates with a guy on the board named Oldfan -- his thesis was Shanny was a glorified offensive coordinator and good on that front but not a good head coach because of everything else.  I argued otherwise.   And we debated it a lot.  Years later, I posted Oldfan you were right. 

 

 I don't really think much of retracing steps as to predictions because human nature is that most are going to recall the good ones and gloss over the bad ones.  If personnel guys get about 50% wrong, I don't buy that we are beating those odds.  Over the years, I've had some really good predictions, touted certain players before it was fashionable to do so, the whole 9 yards.  And on some I got it royally wrong.    If I wanted to I could probably piece together all the right ones where I look like a savant and then I could easily go the other way and make myself look like a moron.

 

I was debating Thinking Skins a little on AJ Francis and he was touting him.  When I re-watched just about every game this off season via coaches tape I focused on the D line in particular, Francis in his limited stints did look like our best nose tackle.  And I said it on a thread to him. I wasn't blown away by him but I thought he was decent and it changed my opinion. 

 

The thing though about the D line discussion is the way I see it is our points aren't that different.  I like the D line.  I've been screaming about upgrading the D line on different threads, years before you started posting.  Your enthusiasm is just amped up even more about what we will see this season -- I am jazzed about it too but I am more measured -- that's fine.

 

On the game thread there were people who actually think the defense stinks.  So I think its weird that I got to defend an opinion that they are good as if that's a criticism.  

 

11 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

And while pre season is worthless on the whole, you can glean certain things about individual players from it IMO. Just like tonight, after reading about it, it appears Peterson looks decent at least. I don't think that means he's a lock to be a starter and good RB, but i also don't believe it means nothing at all.

 

I agree that you can isolate specific performances, especially RB.  IMO you can't teach Rbs the basics either you have vision for example or you don't.  You either have quick feet or you don't.  I specifically before the game cited Adrain as the guy I wanted to see.  And if you read my comments on the game thread, I was gushing about him.  

 

11 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Just like when I watched Payne play last week, I saw top 15 pick and impact DL. Training camp reports are largely positive. Baldinger certainly saw something good. Does that mean Payne and the front 7 are destined to be elite? Of course not. Regardless, pre season and training camp performance was a minor point in my overall point. Subtract Payne and I still would be very excited to see what a healthy Matt I and Jon Allen do with Kerrigan and Smith coming off the edge. Add another potential impact DL next to them? I think that could be extremely difficult to handle.

  

Payne was the first guy I mentioned in the draft thread last Sept.  My son likes Alabama -- I might even be going to their opener next week. I watch most of their games.  I mentioned Ioannidis on the draft day game thread as a good pick before we took him.   I talked to Scot personally about Jonathan Allen.  I like these guys to different degrees.  I watched just about every 2017 game on coaches tape specifically focusing on the D line. I posted clips on the D line, schemes, the whole 9 yards on the Payne thread.

 

And again there are people on the board, that totally kick my butt as to their football knowledge and by a mile.  So I am not touting myself as an expert on squat.  But if I am going to spend all that time on it -- I am going to form an opinion that I have some confidence in at least from the perspective as a layman.    

 

You telling me the PFF scores and your enthusiasm for Payne's play (in your recent post and the one before that) without explaining it -- is fine.  But to me its not really a discussion -- its trading narratives and levels of enthusiasm.  Again reading the game day thread there are people who flat out think the defense isn't good.  So for us the discussion is instead about how good is it -- with us both agreeing for starters its good -- just don't see that as much of a difference.

 

Bringing this back to Alex Smith.  All these same points apply to him.  Again there are people on the board who think he's not that good.  I don't get why I (and others) have to defend a posture about Alex being good where it comes off to some as a hater position.  It's ridiculous IMO.  Not saying in this case its you (if I recall you yourself are in the good category) but again good isn't a secret code word for bad.  Judging by some posts, there are some people who actually think Alex is bad or mediocre and ditto the defense.  Now that would be a real debate.  Not the "good" versus "great" discussion IMO.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

guys, maybe we can get bridgewater. He is a young QB and probably won’t stay with the jets, alex smut would make a decent backup....

 

i think a first round pick would get it done.

[SkinsGuy]

Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

guys, maybe we can get bridgewater. He is a young QB and probably won’t stay with the jets,... i think a first round pick would get it done.

 

I am going to assume you are being VERY sarcastic.

 

Otherwise, WTF? ?

[DJHJR86]

If we can score TDs early in games, we will be fine.  But if our defense gives up yards and points like last night, and we just settle for field goals we will be in for a world of hurt.  I do not think Alex can pull off a "you like that" type of come back.  

[Jumbo]

it would appear that not everyone was as behind him as they were supposed to get 

 

welcome to our fanbase alex and we'll see what adventures await you as you take your turn on the redskins wheel of misfortune  

 

now buckle in because next week we could easily look like world beaters 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

How excited can you get about a journeyman qb with four fair to midland year left?

[dyst]

Yes, let’s all get behind Alex Smith.....and push him out the door.

 

I am kidding to an extent but damn he looked lost. I think people forget how much of a bust he was considered and how lackluster he was for most of his career. His good years were with Harbaugh and Reid. Two great coaches. Then you have Gruden ?

51 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

guys, maybe we can get bridgewater. He is a young QB and probably won’t stay with the jets, alex smut would make a decent backup....

 

i think a first round pick would get it done.

I wouldn’t trade a first for him, but that is the type of QB we should have went after when not signing Kirk. TB isn’t great but would have cost way less.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

8 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Couple of things to take here

1. Denver is stout Defensively

2. Alex is in a new system and new team mates, and it's going to take some time and reps to get there. He has not had them, and I think he should have started in the 1st game, played at least 2 series in the 2nd game, and played at least the first half of game 3, if not getting a additional drive in the 3rd quarter. Jay is doing Smith a disservice by not getting him reps in these games. Everything here is new, and even as a vet it takes some time to get chemistry, and really feel comfortable with the plays. I saw him looking like he wasn't sure where to go and very uncomfortable in the pocket. I honestly think this is because he has not gotten the live reps he needs. The 1st team needed a lot more time together than they got. And I think it's going to hurt us the first few games of the year.

3. People don't like it when I say that Smith is a good, not great QB. I think his last several years with KC show he is accurate and doesn't make mistakes. Tonight he did not look good, but he is usually much better. He was off tonight on passes he usually does not miss. Even the ones he connected on were off, I expect that to get better. Tonight was not what you should expect. He will be much better once he feels comfortable with the plays and the players.

4.I was more let down by the defense, to be honest. Not only did they not do much against the pass, but the run D wasn't not very good, against a team that has their fair share of RB woes. They did a poor job everywhere.

Somebody needs to check the water..I swear John Kent Cooke, Jr is spiking the water out of spite. No excuses for THAT lack of effort IMHO. The secondary couldn't do squat..I'm embarrassed for them watching the receiver separation. Why do the Redskin's (going back many years now) intensity come in half measures??? Look at AP and the effort that man gave..He is professional ..the rest of those guys should apologize to him. These teams make me want to forget the 80's and 90's teams and move on..get over it..

[Morneblade]

6 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Keenum would disagree with you here. He looked pretty good out there and very comfortable with his new team mates. Smith hasn't done anything in his playing career to say wow look at that QB. I have never been high on him, and that was way before he came here. I have my doubts. Hope he can prove me and other who might feel this way wrong. 

 

But that is my point, Case has gotten a lot more work this preseason that Smith has. He didn't look good against the Vikes, but he's gotten a lot more snaps than Alex. He's actually had a chance to get some real work in, something Gruden doesn't do with the starters. And they always come out flat for the regular season.

 

I understand how you feel about Smith. I've been labeled a "hater" because I'm not expecting him to be amazing. But Gruden isn't giving him much of a chance for him to get comfortable.

 

25 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Somebody needs to check the water..I swear John Kent Cooke, Jr is spiking the water out of spite. No excuses for THAT lack of effort IMHO. The secondary couldn't do squat..I'm embarrassed for them watching the receiver separation. Why do the Redskin's (going back many years now) intensity come in half measures??? Look at AP and the effort that man gave..He is professional ..the rest of those guys should apologize to him. These teams make me want to forget the 80's and 90's teams and move on..get over it..

 

Well, that's up to you.

[Dissident2]

I haven't been very excited about the Smith situation from the beginning. I'd have much preferred we signed up Kirk a couple years ago and went with the homegrown talent. That said, I thought like many did that we made the best out of a terrible situation/mistake by bringing in Smith. 

 

I still feel like he can and should do well for us, but last night shook that faith somewhat. He looked jittery, unsure, stiff, etc. That I was not expecting. I didn't see that calm, collected leader everyone's been talking about. Granted, he didn't have Thompson, Reed or Crowder back there, but ... I don't know, that was far from a doubt-calming performance. We'll see what happens Week 1. 

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Somehow i have the feeling the most talked about subject on this board for 2018 will be , HOW & WHY we let Cousins walk....

 

 

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Somehow i have the feeling the most talked about subject on this board for 2018 will be , HOW & WHY we let Cousins walk....

 

 

 

I hope not. The dead horse has been beaten so bad the bones are nothing but powder.

[Skinsinparadise]

Jay I've had your back a ton after year 1.  Hopefully you are right on this one, though. ?

 

Grant Paulsen‏Verified account @granthpaulsen 3h3 hours ago

More

Alex Smith has been known as a fast starter. Here are his preseason pass attempts over the last decade.

2018: 14

2017: 32

2016: 46

2015: 46

2014: 51

2013: 48

2012: 19

2011: 36

2010: 37

[Dissident2]

27 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Somehow i have the feeling the most talked about subject on this board for 2018 will be , HOW & WHY we let Cousins walk....

 

 

 

I think we're beyond the how and why. If Smith goes south while Cousins shines, it'll be time to get some scalps from the front office. I've seen some Vikings fans already grumbling about Cousins, though.  

[Dancing Bear]

Alex will succeed or Jay is gone, maybe even Allen.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

31 minutes ago, Dancing Bear said:

Alex will succeed or Jay is gone, maybe even Allen.

I can always dream about Allen being gone.  Whatever it takes.

[bobandweave]

Kirk Cousins? Anyone else but me see him once again on a third and 8 last night throw the ball one yard past the line of scrimmage for an easy out for the defense? Kirk did check out his own words about his game performance last night

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/08/kirk-cousins-probably-wont-sleep-easily-tonight-performance-vs-seahawks/

 

Alex Smith last night also didn’t have a good showing. And he was out played by Case Keenum who imo is underrated. Denver’s offense was healthy and played everyone where as the Redskins offense wasn’t. Alex was also critical of his showing last night check out his post game interviews on the Redskins app. 

 

Jays already said Alex won’t play week four preseason so what we have is two weeks until his next outing. This threads going to be hard to follow the next couple of weeks

 

Some of what Alex did last night was his fault, some of it was the receivers and the offensive lines fault. It wasn’t a good showing for the offense or the defense and the only thing that was good was AP imo.

 

I’m not troubled so much about Alex Smith after watching the game as I am with the Defense. The Defense was for the most part healthy and struggled big time. Josh Norman getting picked on in multiple plays was unusual, bad tackling was an issue, corners didn’t make a lot of plays, rushing up the middle of the line looked easy again. Overall I grade everyone including the the playcalling as a D all around minus AP. 

 

I think it will right itself. I don’t suddenly think that he is trash or as someone said a jouneyman QB lol. The team needs to rest and game plan for the game in two weeks. Not pushing any panic button yet on the season let’s just not pretend that everyone played well yesterday and it was all Alex’s fault. It wasn’t it was a team failure

[beachboy757]

Alex play was trash last night but I'm not going to overreact and say we are only going to win 5 games or whatever. For one, we didn't see any of the RPO stuff that we know is coming in the regular season. Two, If AP runs the same way he did last night we will be able to kill clock time easily... 3rd down conversions will be a lot more easy for Alex with Crowder, Reed, and CT in.

 

The defense actually was concerning. It is very concerning that Case Keenum looks like Brett Favre whenever he faces our team and that there is no hesitation to attack our #1 corner..

[beachboy757]

 

[HardcoreZorn]

@Skinsinparadise I really think you are missing the boat on this one. @Temper11 brought up that Alex will let it rip when he needs to. You said "not according to football outsiders and multiple other sources."

 

To which I brought to the table there have been countless pressure stats from 2017, PFF's projections, narratives from the media that believe this could be an upper echelon Front 7. "Good" to me means 12-16 in the league maybe? I think that is a fairly sizable difference.

 

It wasn't about good vs great though. It was how you were disproving Temper on his take using football outsiders take and other sources. Yet don't seem to buy in to a lot of the hype on the front 7, also generated by PFF and other said sources. So I was genuinely curious, when is it that you decide to buy into narratives being pushed around (in the case of Smith) versus "needing to see" in the case of the Front 7.

 

It wasn't a shot, I'm not coming at you lol. Just a question man.

 

And once again, this is a discussion board. You don't have to defend anything related to your take on Alex. You don't need to change your mind about anything, don't think anyone here is asking you to. But people have different takes, and that generates back and forth and some disagreement. This whole "coming at me, not going to change my mind, only impressed with people who can show you," comes off a bit holier than thou. Just saying.

[Sandy Monk]

respectful and not off the mark, @HardcoreZorn

[Veryoldschool]

Reed, Crowder, and Thompson haven't played yet.  Clearly, the offense is out of sync but Alex will have more success with the Skins best playmakers; Reed, Crowder, and Thompson are in the lineup.