Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[CTskin]

Haha the last page is good entertainment. Can we all just agree that Smith is an above average QB and call it a day?

[MisterPinstripe]

Morneblade thinks Alex Smith is a good QB, DJHJR86 thinks Alex Smith is a good QB, not sure where any disagreement is or what the last 20 pages have been about.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just now, MisterPinstripe said:

Morneblade thinks Alex Smith is a good QB, DJHJR86 thinks Alex Smith is a good QB, not sure where any disagreement is or what the last 20 pages have been about.

 

 

It's how those sentiments are expressed...12 posts in a row about how Smith has "never done this", "always done that", or "isn't as good as Cousins" doesn't get erased by a 13th post saying "I never said he wasn't good" lol...

[bobandweave]

18 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

If the Skins go 5-11 this year, does that mean that he's a bad quarterback all of a sudden?  

 

Won't happen so no need to worry about that. This team is more talented than 5-11 by a mile and will win between 8-10 games this year if not more. 

 

5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Who has said otherwise in this thread?  No one has said that he isn't good.  Some people think we've downgraded at the position.  

 

And those people I'd say still have yet to come to grips with reality of this situation. If everyone was in tune instead of worrying about what might have been we would all be happy the team got such a good new QB playing for us now. The team didn't decide to downgrade. Kirk's own words have said that all he and his agent wanted for him was to get to Free Agency which he forced. Kirk's own admission, not my opinion that's what Kirk said. To say the team "downgraded" to me implies they had a choice between Alex and Kirk and choose Alex when that's not what choice they had. The team had a choice between one more franchised year of Kirk and then starting over in 2019 vs. Alex this year and stabilization of the position for the 2018 season.  That's business in the NFL today. So imo like the thread title says "Lets get behind Alex Smith" I think we should root Alex on and celebrate his successes here instead of worrying about Minnesota's QB. Like others have said I'm going to continue to be positive when Alex does well. When Alex does well the team does well. Its a cause effect relationship. The better the QB plays the better for the team. Me saying this is not to upset anyone. I am a fan of the team. Let's go Redskins!!!!!!!

 

Sorry if that upsets people but I've been a fan of the team for 40+ years and can't help myself

[MisterPinstripe]

Just now, Califan007 said:

 

It's how those sentiments are expressed...12 posts in a row about how Smith has "never done this", "always done that", or "isn't as good as Cousins" doesn't get erased by a 13th post saying "I never said he wasn't good" lol...

Yeah, I was being somewhat tongue in cheek.

[Sandy Monk]

11 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

It's how those sentiments are expressed...12 posts in a row about how Smith has "never done this", "always done that", or "isn't as good as Cousins" doesn't get erased by a 13th post saying "I never said he wasn't good" lol...

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

It's how those sentiments are expressed...12 posts in a row about how Smith has "never done this", "always done that", or "isn't as good as Cousins" doesn't get erased by a 13th post saying "I never said he wasn't good" lol...

I’ve seen both guys say Alex is good on numerous occasions. The debate is really will he be better than good.

 

I see this sentiment that Alex is a better leader, better in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage, elusive with better wheels, more accurate, hits receivers in stride and turns the ball over much less.

 

That sentiment is shared by many of the same folks who say Kirk was “good” but Alex is better at all the above.  If Kirk is “good” but Alex is better than him at all these things, than what does that make Alex?

 

That’s where it gets tricky...

 

Because most of the folks sharing that Alex is better because of x, y and z won’t say he’s actually elite or near it.  It doesn’t add up.  Because Kirk Cousins with wheels, better leadership, football IQ and better accuracy sure sounds like an elite QB to me.

 

[MisterPinstripe]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ve seen both guys say Alex is good on numerous occasions. The debate is really will he be better than good.

 

I see this sentiment that Alex is a better leader, better in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage, elusive with better wheels, more accurate, hits receivers in stride and turns the ball over much less.

 

That sentiment is shared by many of the same folks who say Kirk was “good” but Alex is better at all the above.  If Kirk is “good” but Alex is better than him at all these things, than what does that make Alex?

 

That’s where it gets tricky...

 

Because most of the folks sharing that Alex is better because of x, y and z won’t say he’s actually elite or near it.  It doesn’t add up.  Because Kirk Cousins with wheels, better leadership, football IQ and better accuracy sure sounds like an elite QB to me.

 

There arent just two options, good and elite. You can have 10 QBs that are good QBs, that doesnt mean that they are all exactly the same level, that some arent better than others and better at certain things. Good to elite is a huge jump, ignoring all of the space in between those two levels.

[Sandy Monk]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ve seen both guys say Alex is good on numerous occasions. The debate is really will he be better than good.

 

I see this sentiment that Alex is a better leader, better in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage, elusive with better wheels, more accurate, hits receivers in stride and turns the ball over much less.

 

That sentiment is shared by many of the same folks who say Kirk was “good” but Alex is better at all the above.  If Kirk is “good” but Alex is better than him at all these things, than what does that make Alex?

 

That’s where it gets tricky...

 

Because most of the folks sharing that Alex is better because of x, y and z won’t say he’s actually elite or near it.  It doesn’t add up.  Because Kirk Cousins with wheels, better leadership, football IQ and better accuracy sure sounds like an elite QB to me.

 

 

Actually no, I think you are missing the point.

 

There is no Kirk. For years now, there was never going to be a 2018+ Kirk to be in Washington. 

 

You would have to go to comparing Alex Smith to a hypothetical rookie QB addition or even McCoy, if the goal is to manipulate conditions to lessen Alex now. 

 

4 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

There arent just two options, good and elite. You can have 10 QBs that are good QBs, that doesnt mean that they are all exactly the same level, that some arent better than others and better at certain things. Good to elite is a huge jump, ignoring all of the space in between those two levels.

 

Somewhat agreed. I don't see much that is even elite these days, and the number of 2nd tier... ( or GOOD ) QBs is just massive.

 

Somewhere in there, both QBs currently are, imho. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, MisterPinstripe said:

There arent just two options, good and elite. You can have 10 QBs that are good QBs, that doesnt mean that they are all exactly the same level, that some arent better than others and better at certain things. Good to elite is a huge jump, ignoring all of the space in between those two levels.

If you take Kirk and give him elusiveness, better accuracy, better leadership, and better ability to diagnose at the LOS that’s pretty damn close to elite.

 

 

[Sandy Monk]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If you take Kirk and give him elusiveness, better accuracy, better leadership, and better ability to diagnose at the LOS that’s pretty damn close to elite.

 

 

 

Give me 5 more inches downstairs, and a million dollars, the girls will simply LOVE ME. 

[skinny21]

Man, for a second there I had hope we had moved on... but now we’re back to square one (Kirk didn’t even want to be here), lol.  

[Sandy Monk]

Just now, skinny21 said:

Man, for a second there I had hope we had moved on... but now we’re back to square one (Kirk didn’t even want to be here).  

 

Oh, just wait till every pass gets examined from PS game 3 coming up. 

 

" I like Alex, he's good, but...... _________________________________"

 

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etc.

 

 

[skinny21]

C’mon man, you expect zero criticism or something?  If you’re just talking about the over the top criticism, I can understand that, but it’s also the nature of fandom.  

 

Also want to add, someone saying “he’s good, but x”, doesn’t mean they’re being disingenuous.  For me personally, I’ll always respect posters like @Skinsinparadise, who talk about the good and the bad, as opposed to those that seemingly refuse to see any bad (or any good!).  It shows a willingness to appreciate the nuance of any given situation.  Of course, we’re on Extremeskins, so...

[DJHJR86]

50 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

It's how those sentiments are expressed...12 posts in a row about how Smith has "never done this", "always done that", or "isn't as good as Cousins" doesn't get erased by a 13th post saying "I never said he wasn't good" lol...

 

From here on out, I'll be sure to meet my Alex Smith is good 12 post quota before posting something factual or an opinion that he isn't as good as Cousins.  

[Sandy Monk]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

C’mon man, you expect zero criticism or something?  If you’re just talking about the over the top criticism, I can understand that, but it’s also the nature of fandom.  

 

 

Assuming you mean me, that was just meant for humor. It misses sometimes. Okay, it misses often.  

 

I think you will probably see A LOT of over the top criticisms though, and not because they actually have merit. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

Also want to add, someone saying “he’s good, but x”, doesn’t mean they’re being disingenuous.  For me personally, I’ll always respect posters like @Skinsinparadise, who talk about the good and the bad, as opposed to those that seemingly refuse to see any bad (or any good!).  It shows a willingness to appreciate the nuance of any given situation.  Of course, we’re on Extremeskins, so...

 

Thanks, I also think its boring just to see everything as perfect and then spin everything that way.  I like Larry Michael but am glad the board isn't a variation of Redskins Nation.   We got our favorite players, units -- some guys we like more than others.  If we all saw things exactly the same or we turned into the Redskins PR arm where its about putting the most positive spin on EVERYTHING -- I think for me at least it would be really boring. 

 

Part of the fun with the NFL IMO is that there are so many moving parts and so much unpredictability -- that you can't really figure it all out in advance.  Bill Parcells liked to say the best personnel guys in the league still get 50% of their decisions wrong.

 

So lets take Alex.  None of us IMO can be sold with absolute conviction of anything.  He could end up being good and not great -- there is plenty of evidence to sell that narrative.  And if people want to see the narrative that the 2017 season is the new Alex and he's only getting better -- ok, that's possible too.  Like anything its about digesting the odds and making your best guess based on that.  

 

And the post by another about hey every throw that Alex makes will be dissected.  Doubt it.   I know I won't.  My whole theme on the Kirk thread is the QB is part of a symphony -- not the whole ball of wax.  That position will remain consistent.   I did it for RG3.  I did it for Kirk.  I'll do it for Alex.  

 

It would be ironic though if it did happened as to the dissecting because judging by this thread some of the same people who did exactly that to Kirk, where every game seemed to be a referendum, might be the ones bothered most if people did the same thing they did to Alex.  The amusing irony if so.     And this thread isn't even close to the amount of negativity and bitterness that existed on the Kirk thread.   Actually I don't even see much bitterness at all here -- seems to be the debate is good versus great.  With some (not all) of the people espousing the greatness is so so obvious that anyone who doesn't see it has an agenda.   With another faction saying we like the guy but lets not get carried away. 

 

Heck I liked Kirk but I criticized him too -- I didn't see him as a climb every mountain-superman type either.  I love Jay but I take an occasional shot at him and didn't love him initially.  I don't see perfection all around us.  Neither do most of us.  And that's OK.  

[JSSkinz]

I'm waiting for us to start comparing the way Kirk and Alex dress, their hairstyles, golf scores, who's got the best looking kids, etc.

 

They're pretty close on the field so I think the tiebreaker comes down to the intangibles. 

[Sandy Monk]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And the whole hey every throw that Alex makes will be dissected.  Doubt it.   I know I won't.  My whole theme on the Kirk thread is the QB is part of a symphony -- not the whole ball of wax.  That position will remain consistent.   I did it for RG3.  I did it for Kirk.  I'll do it for Alex.  

 

Bookmarked. 

 

Quote

  Actually I don't even see much bitterness at all here -- seems to be the debate is good versus great.  With some (not all) of the people espousing the greatness is so so obvious that anyone who doesn't see it has an agenda.   With another faction saying we like the guy but lets not get carried away. 

 

Wait, what now? Who might these "some" be that are "espousing the greatness is so so obvious" ? 

 

That's interesting to throw in there... and then lightly glossing over what "the other faction" does.  Interesting indeed. 

[Morneblade]

19 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Bookmarked. 

 

 

Wait, what now? Who might these "some" be that are "espousing the greatness is so so obvious" ? 

 

That's interesting to throw in there... and then lightly glossing over what "the other faction" does.  Interesting indeed. 

 

If you missed that, you're not paying attention, or you have an agenda of your own.

 

And it's seems you do have a agenda. That agenda being: Anyone that questions how good Smith is, has a agenda.

[Sandy Monk]

5 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

If you missed that, you're not paying attention, or you have an agenda of your own.

 

And it's seems you do have a agenda. That agenda being: Anyone that questions how good Smith is, has a agenda.

 

I must have missed that. Who are these people espousing the greatness of Smith and his obvious greatness? Was it months and years ago, or recently? 

 

I have no agenda, other than my suspicions like what he is talking about: v

 

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Also want to add, someone saying “he’s good, but x”, doesn’t mean they’re being disingenuous. 

 

 

.. and no, it doesn't have to mean they are being disingenuous. Only that if a pattern is showing, it makes me think they probably are being disingenuous. 

 

 

 

Okay, so that should clear everything up. Finally. Good day, sir. I said GOOD DAY. 

 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

44 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm waiting for us to start comparing the way Kirk and Alex dress, their hairstyles, golf scores, who's got the best looking kids, etc.

 

They're pretty close on the field so I think the tiebreaker comes down to the intangibles. 

YA...like WHO wanted to be a Redskin!

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Bookmarked. 

 

You can book it.  I have been consistent with all of our QBs.  Heck I even had John Beck's back and Jason Campbell's for awhile.  They had to work their way out of my circle of trust but I gave them plenty of rope.  Alex will have plenty of rope with me, too. 

 

I was one of the rare people who liked RG3 but also wasn't bitter when Kirk took over and had Kirk's back then.   I don't kill QBs for bad throws or blame them exclusively for losses.  Some of the same new called "positive" people on this thread have done exactly that to Kirk.  Not saying you among them -- you weren't here.  But if some do it (it won't be me) to Alex -- but it would be ironic if the same people who did it to Kirk would be bothered by it. 

 

30 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Wait, what now? Who might these "some" be that are "espousing the greatness is so so obvious" ? 

That's interesting to throw in there... and then lightly glossing over what "the other faction" does.  Interesting indeed. 

 

Not every point I am making is addressed specifically to you.  Again like I told you on another post, people's take depends on their perspective.   I personally think its you who gloss over the attitudes of a faction here.  But that's my perspective from my point of view.  The idea that there are factions where we are talking about the good versus great crowd as if its one side versus another -- to me tells it all.  From my perspective its silly.    Real factions to me is a player is good or bad -- or we want this starter versus that starter.  Or like we have in other discussions lets keep Bruce or lets get rid of him.  Real binary 0 versus 1 conversations.  But the idea of Alex being all that versus we like him but lets not get carried away -- that's not a polarizing conversation and personally I think the extreme position isn't the Alex is good crowd its the other one. 

 

And yeah on this thread we got some implied posts about if you don't see Alex the way they do then you are negative or love Kirk or whatever agenda you supposedly got cooking -- personally I think that's the extreme position on the thread.

 

Having said that, I really don't have a problem with anyone's perspective unless they come gunning for me directly.  I disagree with some points and agree with others.  Way before you starting posting on this thread, I flat out said I have no problem with anyone who thinks Alex is better than Kirk.   I personally think the players are close.  My only disagreement is that one is way better another -- that's it.    My overriding point on this thread is I am not buying some extreme version of one being better than another.  

 

[bobandweave]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It would be ironic though if it did happened as to the dissecting because judging by this thread some of the same people who did exactly that to Kirk, where every game seemed to be a referendum, might be the ones bothered most if people did the same thing they did to Alex.  The amusing irony if so.     And this thread isn't even close to the amount of negativity and bitterness that existed on the Kirk thread.   Actually I don't even see much bitterness at all here -- seems to be the debate is good versus great.  With some (not all) of the people espousing the greatness is so so obvious that anyone who doesn't see it has an agenda.   With another faction saying we like the guy but lets not get carried away. 

 

I'd also like to know who your referring to with these recent posts? If it's me and I suspect your post and Morneblade posts are about me then let me assure you both. I'm not grouping anyone into this camp or that camp. I come here to kick it with you guys. 

 

Read my thoughts last week about how asinine I thought it was that the team wasn't rushing out and signing any RB's they could after Guice went down. I didn't post on this forum for many months as I had too much heat with some posters because of my opinions, and what brought me out of the shadows (I was lurking for a long while) was the RB situation. I said it didn't make a bit of sense to not do something about the RB position last week and that I was thinking more was going on then what the beat reporters were reporting. I live in Dallas, TX and I'm an outsider. I thought that if the leaks hadn't stopped we would be hearing more about movement on this because I didn't see much at all in Perine or Kelley and still don't. I pointed out that doing nothing at the RB position after Doug Williams made a lot of noise in the offseason about bettering the position didn't make sense.

 

A lot of posters didn't like my opinions last week. Some posters argued with me that nothing needed to be done including telling me how Perine and Kelley were better than I was giving them credit for,  A few days later we all learn that Darkwa, Charles, and Peterson had been in the building or were coming. What I suspected was right, they were going to add to the RB position and they did. The team had to. I'm no genius or trying to talk about myself here. You pointed out yesterday I was involved in the talks about Alex Smith in December and you are right about that. My point about the RBs is I only bring up my feeling about the RBs last week as proof I am fair and not someone who is all positive all the time or giving some guys passes and others not the same.

 

I would hope that everyone understands I shoot straight. Now my straight won't always jive with your straight but its my straight. If I'm being talked about as someone who doesn't judge the team fairly or gives a pass to some players but not others then just stop. I judge them by my eyes not someone else's which means I'm not always flowing with the group think. I am an independent thinker from down south. I didn't harshly judge Kirk Cousins, I judged him how I saw him. Lots of posters didn't like my takes on Kirk Cousins then or even now. My opinion didn't sit well with everyone but that's all it was, an opinion. We all see things differently.

 

My belief that Kirk's fumbles too much, fails to win games, has an inability to run when it was open, misses wide open receivers, throws bad INT's, and his tendency to become a shrinking violet when the games mattered the most pissed a lot of people off. I spoke negatively about Kirk and rightfully so at least to me it was right. I never implied that I was the only person right and the people who didn't agree with me were wrong. I just shared my opinion about that guy. My opinion about Kirk back then was he was far better then Griffin who I didn't like also pissed people off. I just spoke my opinion. It's all just my opinion. If it's good I call it good, if it's crap I say it's crap. 

 

Now you should bet your ass if Alex Smith starts fumbling, losing important games, shows he won't run, or looks incompetent my high praise of him will cease and you will get the negative point of view I'm not yet showing him. I'm giving Alex a chance before throwing shade at him. If he fails I will judge him as a failure believe that. So far he hasn't failed anything and only looked good here, so what's to be upset about him now?

 

Trust me if you want to see some negativity towards Alex let me see it first with my own eyes, then you will see me feeling that way. I refuse to be negative about something until I see it. I'm positive the day will come when I'm venting about Alex Smith. I just don't vent unless I believe I have a reason to.

 

Peace to everyone not looking for arguments. Just shooting the **** and kicking the can with my fellow Redskins fans. Sorry if anything I said upsets anyone now or in the future, Just remember I don't think I'm always right and my opinions can change if reason is given. If this was not about me, sorry I was an idiot and confused. Thanks

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

It's how those sentiments are expressed...12 posts in a row about how Smith has "never done this", "always done that", or "isn't as good as Cousins" doesn't get erased by a 13th post saying "I never said he wasn't good" lol...

 

Well, when someone says this is the best blah blah I've seen in 40 years, I'll call it out for what it is. Bull****. And show them why it's bull****.

 

Just before that statement, my comment was basically; "Saw what I needed to see, looked good, good reads,made a tough throw, should have scored, but that was on the WR."

 

Yeah, that ****ing damning, isn't it? Or maybe you're projecting?

 

Never mention Cousins, because that triggers people. Did you project that too?

2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

Won't happen so no need to worry about that. This team is more talented than 5-11 by a mile and will win between 8-10 games this year if not more. 

 

 

And those people I'd say still have yet to come to grips with reality of this situation. If everyone was in tune instead of worrying about what might have been we would all be happy the team got such a good new QB playing for us now. The team didn't decide to downgrade. Kirk's own words have said that all he and his agent wanted for him was to get to Free Agency which he forced. Kirk's own admission, not my opinion that's what Kirk said.

 

And now we are back to this.

 

FO screwed up. Gave up Fuller for a guy that was going to be cut anyway.

 

But, we got a good QB. After it was obvious the FO had no interest in resigning Cousins, at least we're not stuck with McCoy being our QB. As much as I like Colt as a backup, he's not a starters in the league. Alex is, and a pretty good one too. I think the main difference with some of us is that I don't look at 2017 as an average day for him. I look at it as a 1 year anomaly, and he probably won't be that guy for us, because he never was prior to that. I think he'll be more in line with what he was the previous 4 years in KC.

 

Good, not great. Because that is his track record.

 

Some people have issues with that. They think that not only is 2017 normal, but he'll get better.

 

And I won't believe until I see it.

 

5 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

I'd also like to know who your referring to with these recent posts? If it's me and I suspect your post and morningblades posts are about me then let me assure you both. I'm not grouping anyone into this camp or that camp. I come here to kick it with you guys. 

 

 

Who the **** is that guy?

 

Sorry, I get my name butchered from time to time, but usually not THAT badly!