Fat Stupid Loser Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 16 hours ago, Sandy Monk said: haha, fun spin job, go with it! A fan of the same team taking someone to task for being complimentary of the same team's QB, oh the horror! You weren't here when Cousins was here huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Sandy Monk said: Oh, just wait till every pass gets examined from PS game 3 coming up. " I like Alex, he's good, but...... _________________________________" " _________________ " You mean just like the last few years? It's always gonna be that way until somebody wins a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Monk Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, HOF44 said: You mean just like the last few years? It's always gonna be that way until somebody wins a Super Bowl. Plenty of atrocities in the World's history.. and they stayed that way far longer than need be.. because the mindset was, "well that's just the way it has been, so, oh well" tsk tsk Stand with me, people! WE can rise above it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Sandy Monk said: Give me 5 more inches downstairs, and a million dollars, the girls will simply LOVE ME. That’s kind of the point. If Alex is really that much better at all those things, than he’s pretty much an elite QB that any team would covet. Given what looks to be better resources around a better QB, this team should easily win double digit games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said: Plenty of atrocities in the World's history.. and they stayed that way far longer than need be.. because the mindset was, "well that's just the way it has been, so, oh well" tsk tsk Stand with me, people! WE can rise above it! For me that aint gonna happen. I've pretty much come to expect that any thing the Redskins do either ends in quiet failure or turns into a huge embarrassing failure in a way that has never been seen or considered. As long as Snyder continues to run this team I think the failures will continue. It breaks my heart cause I love the Redskins but loathe the owner. So I actually feel for the players that come here now. They are sucked down by this cesspool of suck from which there is no escape. God help us all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Morneblade said: Well, when someone says this is the best blah blah I've seen in 40 years, I'll call it out for what it is. Bull****. And show them why it's bull****. Just before that statement, my comment was basically; "Saw what I needed to see, looked good, good reads,made a tough throw, should have scored, but that was on the WR." Yeah, that ****ing damning, isn't it? Or maybe you're projecting? Never mention Cousins, because that triggers people. Did you project that too? Your speaking about a post I made, which you clearly were confused about. I said it was the best to ME that I saw from a new QB playing on this team. You rebutted that Griffins opener was better which didn't prove crap and now your talking like you bested me in that debate. Like how you gonna debate what MY eyes saw? You can't debate that. You also didn't prove what I said was wrong. If you think you proved anything I don't think you did but that's cool, its all opinions man. Your entitled to yours as am I 30 minutes ago, Morneblade said: And now we are back to this. FO screwed up. Gave up Fuller for a guy that was going to be cut anyway. Not the case, many teams (Denver/Cleveland) called about trading for Smith and even offered more then the Redskins did. Look it up, no way in hell he was getting cut 30 minutes ago, Morneblade said: But, we got a good QB. After it was obvious the FO had no interest in resigning Cousins Also wrong. The team up until the Radio Row interview when Kirk said he wasn't going to sign with us until after free agency opened (forcing us to overpay and putting the Redskins in a bad position if he didn't sign) were all about signing Kirk. They franchised him twice, they wanted to keep him. Wasn't until it was obvious Kirk wasn't going to play ball with Washington did that force them to go in another direction. 30 minutes ago, Morneblade said: , at least we're not stuck with McCoy being our QB. As much as I like Colt as a backup, he's not a starters in the league. We both agree on this point. 30 minutes ago, Morneblade said: Alex is, and a pretty good one too. I think the main difference with some of us is that I don't look at 2017 as an average day for him. I look at it as a 1 year anomaly, and he probably won't be that guy for us, because he never was prior to that. I think he'll be more in line with what he was the previous 4 years in KC. Good, not great. Because that is his track record. Some people have issues with that. They think that not only is 2017 normal, but he'll get better. And I won't believe until I see it. Fair enough 30 minutes ago, Morneblade said: Who the **** is that guy? Sorry, I get my name butchered from time to time, but usually not THAT badly! Apologizes for messing up your name. Wasn't meant to be an attack, I just fudged up. Fixing it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said: YA...like WHO wanted to be a Redskin! Well two reasons Alex wanted to be a Redskin..... 1. He's never been a Redskin and doesn't know any better. 2. They offered a 34 year old QB who has been the epitome of OK his entire career 71 Million dollars. No **** he wants to be a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, bobandweave said: Your speaking about a post I made, which you clearly were confused about. I said it was the best to ME that I saw from a new QB playing on this team. You rebutted that Griffins opener was better which didn't prove crap and now your talking like you bested me in that debate. Like how you gonna debate what MY eyes saw? You can't debate that. You also didn't prove what I said was wrong. If you think you proved anything I don't think you did but that's cool, its all opinions man. Your entitled to yours as am I Dude, you completely overstated his performance. If you want to hang you hat on that, that's up to you. 6 minutes ago, bobandweave said: Not the case, many teams (Denver/Cleveland) called about trading for Smith and even offered more then the Redskins did. Look it up, no way in hell he was getting cut Source? 6 minutes ago, bobandweave said: Also wrong. The team up until the Radio Row interview when Kirk said he wasn't going to sign with us until after free agency opened (forcing us to overpay and putting the Redskins in a bad position if he didn't sign) were all about signing Kirk. They franchised him twice, they wanted to keep him. Wasn't until it was obvious Kirk wasn't going to play ball with Washington did that force them to go in another direction. Franchising a guy does not mean you want to keep him. Not 2 times in a row. Usually, if you have to franchise a guy once, it's to try to work on a deal that year. Bruce did what Bruce does, and low-balled, and never negotiated. The 2nd tag was unheard of, and it was pretty clear that Allen was just buying time. The word coming out was the Allen wasn't really negotiating in good faith, and was not prepared to come close to a market deal. Allen has always been cheap, going back to both the Raiders and the Bucs. That's his M.O. Sometimes it's good, as in not going crazy like Vinnie, sometimes it comes back to haunt him. I think if Allen puts a reasonable offer out, the deal gets done. 6 minutes ago, bobandweave said: We both agree on this point. Fair enough Apologizes for messing up your name. Wasn't meant to be an attack, I just fudged up. Fixing it now Don't even worry about it. I just found it funny, I didn't take it as a dig or anything. It happens fairly often, so I'm used to it. 4 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: Well two reasons Alex wanted to be a Redskin..... 1. He's never been a Redskin and doesn't know any better. 2. They offered a 34 year old QB who has been the epitome of OK his entire career 71 Million dollars. No **** he wants to be a Redskin. What's funny is that if Kirk had been offered that deal, $94 million extension that guarantees him a whopping $71 million, I think he stays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Morneblade said: Dude, you completely overstated his performance. If you want to hang you hat on that, that's up to you. My eyes, are my eyes. yours are yours. If you don't think that there is a diff between your eyes and my eyes then... Quote Source? https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/1/31/16956136/alex-smith-trade-rumors-aqib-talib-broncos-washington-browns-chiefs Mentions Clevelands offer and Denver's offer, personally I would have taken Aqib Talib and a 2nd round pick over what the chiefs got from us Quote Franchising a guy does not mean you want to keep him. That is exactly what it means. If they didn't want to keep him they could have let him go, they paid him top 5 money to stay Quote Don't even worry about it. I just found it funny, I didn't take it as a dig or anything. It happens fairly often, so I'm used to it. I fixed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: Well two reasons Alex wanted to be a Redskin..... 1. He's never been a Redskin and doesn't know any better. 2. They offered a 34 year old QB who has been the epitome of OK his entire career 71 Million dollars. No **** he wants to be a Redskin. as compared to 30yo who hasn't won a single playoff game, is bipolar in game situations that count, 80 mil 3 year guaranteed who didn't want to be here from the get go. No Brainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: That’s kind of the point. If Alex is really that much better at all those things, than he’s pretty much an elite QB that any team would covet. Given what looks to be better resources around a better QB, this team should easily win double digit games. I expect double digit wins this year if our OL and DL stay healthy. I think Alex is an upgrade over Kirk, one of the main reasons I think so is Kirks 36 fumbles and 30+ INts over the last 3 years. Has a big impact on both offense and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Morneblade said: FO screwed up. Gave up Fuller for a guy that was going to be cut anyway. Smith was not getting cut, he was going to get traded to someone. Supposedly Cleveland offered a 2nd but KC liked our package better. https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/browns_tried_to_trade_for_alex.amp Whether the skins overpaid is a different argument, but they would not have had a chance to acquire smith unless they traded for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temper11 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Actually I don't even see much bitterness at all here -- seems to be the debate is good versus great. With some (not all) of the people espousing the greatness is so so obvious that anyone who doesn't see it has an agenda. With another faction saying we like the guy but lets not get carried away. SportingCharts.com says this about TD to INT ration: "Very good NFL seasons will see a quarterback have a TD to INT ratio of over 2 with elite seasons over 3.5." That's Smith in a nutshell... In many ways, better than a "very good NFL" QB, but not at that "Elite" level... yet. Hopefully the next 5 years with the Redskins will get him over the hump, he'll add a few superbowl rings and a few superbowl mvp trophies to his resume and put the debate on just exactly what caliber of QB he really is/was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said: as compared to 30yo who hasn't won a single playoff game, is bipolar in game situations that count, 80 mil 3 year guaranteed who didn't want to be here from the get go. No Brainer @Sandy Monk, you wanted another agenda guy? Look no further. 1 minute ago, Temper11 said: SportingCharts.com says this about TD to INT ration: "Very good NFL seasons will see a quarterback have a TD to INT ratio of over 2 with elite seasons over 3.5." That's Smith in a nutshell... In many ways, better than a "very good NFL" QB, but not at that "Elite" level... yet. Hopefully the next 5 years with the Redskins will get him over the hump, he'll add a few superbowl rings and a few superbowl mvp trophies to his resume and put the debate on just exactly what caliber of QB he really is/was. I seriously doubt he gets a few SB rings and SB MVP's. But then I don't think we're even the odds on to win the division the next couple of years. 1 hour ago, bobandweave said: My eyes, are my eyes. yours are yours. If you don't think that there is a diff between your eyes and my eyes then... 1 hour ago, bobandweave said: https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/1/31/16956136/alex-smith-trade-rumors-aqib-talib-broncos-washington-browns-chiefs Mentions Clevelands offer and Denver's offer, personally I would have taken Aqib Talib and a 2nd round pick over what the chiefs got from us Thank you. 1 hour ago, bobandweave said: That is exactly what it means. If they didn't want to keep him they could have let him go, they paid him top 5 money to stay A long term deal means you want to keep someone. No team lets someone they want get franchised twice. And they didn't. 1 hour ago, bobandweave said: I fixed it Like I said, no worries. Just thought it was funny, as it was the worst butchering I've had lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Morneblade said: @Sandy Monk, you wanted another agenda guy? Look no further. I seriously doubt he gets a few SB rings and SB MVP's. But then I don't think we're even the odds on to win the division the next couple of years. Now THAT is funny. Try the multi post that I refereed to. BUT you are right...no need to look ANY further for an agenda guy. Two peas in a pod you two are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Alex Smith suffers from Ryan Kerrigan syndrome, he'll be great for us but under appreciated around the rest of the league. He has an O-line that can protect him, al he needs is someone to step up at RB this year to take some heat off of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temper11 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Morneblade said: I seriously doubt he gets a few SB rings and SB MVP's. But then I don't think we're even the odds on to win the division the next couple of years. I enjoy the "wishful thinking" part of the pre-season. And I'm firmly in the camp of Smith is good enough to win the whole thing. You said something a bit ago in another post about 2017 being an anomaly statistically for Smith. Which is undeniably true. However, it was also an anomaly for the Chiefs defense. They sucked in 2017, so much more of the burden was put on the offense. Many people categorize Smith as a game manager QB - and do so as a way of disparaging him. He himself doesn't like the term based on the few times he's talked about it. However, I think it's a good way to describe his play. Dude just knows how to win. He isn't afraid of taking risks, he just knows when it's the right time to take risks and when it isn't. He doesn't seem to care about stats in the slightest. He just cares about winning. You want to see Smith light it up and chuck the ball all over the place? Tell your defense to suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temper11 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 9 hours ago, DJHJR86 said: In other words...you cannot measure a QB based off of win percentage. Which was my entire point. Yeah... I wasn't trying to refute your point necessarily with my post - was just interested in the comparison between Smith and Dilfer as that gets thrown out there alot. I think, as the stats seem to support, there isn't much similarity between the two. Dilfer seemed to just be along for the ride, whereas, Smith was a much more integral part of the teams success. I do however think wins and losses are a stat that you can look at when assessing a QB's overall worth. Not necessarily in any one game - plenty of games that Smith's team has won in which he played a minor roll, and other games they've lost when he was really good... but a cumulative body of work over a set period of time... I think it's a stat to consider for the QB, much more than any other position player on the field. Similarly to a pitcher in baseball in which wins and losses are ascribed... the QB touches the ball every offensive play and is so much more in control of the game than anyone else. But it's just a single metric... and doesn't tell the whole story. You can have a great pitcher on a ****ty team that has a really low ERA, but no wins to show for it, and another pitcher whose ERA is over 5 but has 12 wins due to the fact that his team averages 8 runs a game. Extreme examples, but they are just that... examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 3 hours ago, KillBill26 said: Smith was not getting cut, he was going to get traded to someone. Supposedly Cleveland offered a 2nd but KC liked our package better. https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/browns_tried_to_trade_for_alex.amp Whether the skins overpaid is a different argument, but they would not have had a chance to acquire smith unless they traded for him. At least we got a good package! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 6 hours ago, bobandweave said: I'd also like to know who your referring to with these recent posts? If it's me and I suspect your post and Morneblade posts are about me then let me assure you both. I'm not grouping anyone into this camp or that camp. I come here to kick it with you guys. Not about you directly. It's about the idea that one side of the discussion is the sunshine side about the team in a macro way and the other side is the opposite. My point was I wouldn't define some of the ones who are gushing about Alex as just people who are brimming with sunshine just in general about everything -- they certainly weren't that way about Kirk. As you acceded yourself in your post to me. And yes, I'd group you among those people as an example. But my point was that's fine. I think the positive-negative camp label is unfair if painted just based on this issue. In some context, its hard to get more positive than me. In another context -- Bruce/Management I am negative. Positive -- Derrius Guice. Negative -- Robert Kelley. Depends on the subject. I recall the last disagreement I had wasn't about you having a different position but that you misrepresented my position (at least in my book you did) and then hammered me on that false position. But that hasn't happened of late. So I got no quarrel with anything. I give you two things on the Alex Smith dynamic that's unique to you compared to most others and that I like from that perspective A. You liked the idea of making this trade BEFORE it happened. So I respect that. Plenty of people jump on a position after it goes down and sometimes that position can come off as bandwagon or driven by feelings about the FO. More interesting to me to land on a position before it went down like you did it versus after it happened. I landed on a position on this myself before it went down, too. B. You are uniquely one of the people who really dig the trade and also don't dig Bruce. Many of (again not all) the ones who dig the trade also dig Bruce or they are at least ok with him. My biggest beef with this team is Bruce as head of personnel so anyone who shares that concept with me -- isn't a mile away from my global mindset about the team. 6 hours ago, bobandweave said: Read my thoughts last week about how asinine I thought it was that the team wasn't rushing out and signing any RB's they could after Guice went down. I didn't post on this forum for many months as I had too much heat with some posters because of my opinions, and what brought me out of the shadows (I was lurking for a long while) was the RB situation. I agreed with you. And I also agreed with you stumping for running back help all off season. 6 hours ago, bobandweave said: feeling about the RBs last week as proof I am fair and not someone who is all positive all the time or giving some guys passes and others not the same. I know you aren't positive all the time. Neither am I. My point was to someone else who was giving a macro view of positivity that seemed colored to a degree based on people's takes about Alex -- and to me you are an example of someone who isn't macro positive about everything. And that's fine. Alex is just one cog in the machine not the whole machine. 6 hours ago, bobandweave said: Peace to everyone not looking for arguments. Just shooting the **** and kicking the can with my fellow Redskins fans. Sorry if anything I said upsets anyone now or in the future, Just remember I don't think I'm always right and my opinions can change if reason is given. If this was not about me, sorry I was an idiot and confused. Thanks Got no issue with anyone who disagrees. For me its about tone and do people identify my position correctly and if they don't it makes it feel like they want to win a debate as opposed to have a discussion. Having said that, as I pointed out we agree on a bunch of stuff. My main difference with you on who Alex is as a player is I don't see him as this risk taker including over Kirk. I understand what Jay said but beat reporters close to the action said even before Alex arrived is that Kirk liked to simulate practice like it was a game so he didn't like to let it fly in practice if guys weren't open. And Alex supposedly doesn't practice like that so he doesn't care. But Alex reputation wise is very conservative. I think there is some nuance in that conversation that's being missed as to practice versus the games. And i don't think Alex is better than Kirk. I'd take Kirk over Alex. But i think they are close. So I got no issue with anyone who gives the nod to Alex. But this version of risk taking let it fly Alex to me is likely a fantasy -- not impossible that he plays that way for Jay but I'll believe it when I see it. My interest in Alex is very tied to the RO-RPO that's why I desperately want to give him the tools to succeed with it. If for example, you hire a pastry chef - give him the best chocolate or whatever he needs to cook something good. My global take on any QB is build a team around the QBs skills set -- and while I don't see Alex as this let it fly risk taker -- am VERY intrigued by his ball handling skills and how it interacts with the running game. I was upset that Kirk wasn't given a running game -- I'll be doubly upset if they don't do it for Alex for reasons I expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temper11 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: My global take on any QB is build a team around the QBs skills set -- and while I don't see Alex is this let it fly risk taker -- am intrigued by his ball handling skills and how it interacts with the running game. He absolutely isn't a let if fly risk taker... unless that's what the situation of the game calls for - then he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 53 minutes ago, Temper11 said: He absolutely isn't a let if fly risk taker... unless that's what the situation of the game calls for - then he is. Geeez..a player who follows the coaches game plan!!??? Say it ain't so Joe!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Temper11 said: He absolutely isn't a let if fly risk taker... unless that's what the situation of the game calls for - then he is. Not according to multiple sources including Football Outsiders. But that's fine. IMO he has other strengths. My point is if he's the perfect conservative dude when he needs to be, the RO-RPO dude -- and is some let it fly risk taker that just connects when he needs to without even making turnovers -- I'll be buying my SB tickets this week since the dude is then flawless. The dude does it all well. I'd say the descriptions puts him over Brady because Brady doesn't have wheels. The players who picked the top 100 guys this year are going to look like fools -- ditto many of the KC beat guys and their fans. Alex here to save us and take us straight to the big dance? I do admit if he's this daring gun slinger and he doesn't make mistakes all wrapped up in one -- we should seriously go 13-3. I am still in the he's a conservative camp -- and his strengths are he doesn't mistakes and is really good with the RPO and RO. That's enough for me. But I admit if he's much more than that, he'd be right up there with the best -- Brees, Brady, Peyton at his peak. Love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Monk Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: Not according to multiple sources including Football Outsiders. But that's fine. IMO he has other strengths. My point is if he's the perfect conservative dude when he needs to be, the RO-RPO dude -- and is some let it fly risk taker that just connects when he needs to without even making turnovers -- I'll be buying my SB tickets this week since the dude is then flawless. Imagine how flawless one would speak of Aaron Rodgers, if asked to explain all the strengths. (and yes, Rodgers is superior to Smith) Would you flippantly say the same thing? OKay then.. where are all of GB's Super Bowl wins again under Aaron? Only the 1, amirite? and assisted with great help of a top 5 defense and top-shelf WRs that year? yes? Well, Alex is not as good as Aaron, we agree. So, you can probably wait just a bit before purchasing your SB tickets. ... because like with a superior Aaron Rodgers, they still needed a really good team around him to win it all. Maybe the Redskins around him will have enough, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 On 8/20/2018 at 12:15 PM, Skinsinparadise said: LOL. That's a unique position on the board. I think you will have a much easier time convincing me Da-Ron Payne is elite than you will that Alex is significantly better than Kirk. But hope you are right. I’ll not try to convince a gentleman who is as well studied as you, I know your opinions are formed objectively by watching hours & hours ..... & hours .....& hours ...(well, point made) of football. I wouldn’t want to change your mind, I enjoy consuming the views of others, the players will show us who they are. Even when I disagree with someone’s thoughts, I don’t believe my perspective to be better, superior or more likely to be proven accurate. The discussing is what’s valuable, you bring more worthy redskins content to digest than anyone at the post or any of the local redskins programming. I think Kirk is a talented guy who processes the game slowly, I think Alex will get to things Kirk isn’t able to. I believe that the nfl gets more Jay Gruden friendly every year, he wants to throw the ball & Alex Smith is a perfect guy to distribute it. If we compare the QB to a pg, Alex Smith is like Rondo & Kirk is like Dajuan Wagner. Your opinions are every bit as valuable as any scouts. What separates good scouts from useless ones is humility & obsession. You have to love what your eyes see, not what you hoped they’d see. A lot of people let expectations & feelings cloud their objectivity. Great scouts love every snap they see, they only care about the football. I am too often guilty of rooting for my opinions rather than being objective, it can be tough to let go of the Johnathan Ballard’s I loved. :/ Keep it coming, you’re a phenomenal asset to the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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