Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[MisterPinstripe]

JaMarcus Russell also had a cannon for an arm. It will be interesting to see how all of these new young QBs do once the season starts. Which ones wilt and which ones take off. That tends to be one of my favorite things to watch about a new season, the new starters at QB.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

JaMarcus Russell also had a cannon for an arm. It will be interesting to see how all of these new young QBs do once the season starts. Which ones wilt and which ones take off. That tends to be one of my favorite things to watch about a new season, the new starters at QB.

 

 

 

 

Yeah my vote is For Sam Darnold, that was the one I liked this draft the most.  I'd also enjoy the irony if him making the Jets relevant thanks to the Giants skipping over him in the draft.

[dyst]

On 8/18/2018 at 12:53 PM, beachboy757 said:

Nice pass by Mahomes. When I saw it last night it reminded me of RG3's first bomb TD pass to Leonard Hankerson week 2 of the 2012 season..

 

 

 

Secretly, I want him to become a better QB, somehow/someway and then find his way back to our team, maybe as a backup, who eventually is thrust into the starting lineup and leads us into the playoffs. What can I say, I’m a helpless romantic.

[MisterPinstripe]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah my vote is For Sam Darnold, that was the one I liked this draft the most.  I'd also enjoy the irony if him making the Jets relevant thanks to the Giants skipping over him in the draft.

He has looked good so far. If he could take the Jets to relevance while the Giants fade away sticking with Eli I would love it.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am a big Jay guy but I have a couple of disagreements with him and both relate to Alex and I am fearful both could be narratives if his job ends up on the line.  That is, riding with Robert Kelley as the starting RB.  And also if we lose another opener -- while riding on the same wave of we don't give our Qbs as many reps in the preseason as some other teams do.

 

 

Chris Russell‏ @Russellmania621 6h6 hours ago

More

Jay Gruden & #Redskins opening door for criticism: "In his first year with Kansas City & Andy Reid, Smith had 48 attempts over three preseason starts in 2013. The #Chiefs started that year 9-0. They won 4-of-5 season openers under Smith & Reid."

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/washington-redskins-alex-smith-needed-play-more

1. Tom Brady did not play for the Patriots against the Redskins last week, but on Thursday night he threw 26 times in his first game action of the season. That's Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, who has won FIVE Super Bowls and been to three others. Same team, same scheme, same "Tommy," but he needed and wanted the work.

2. Last year in Kansas City for his FIFTH season in the same scheme, Smith threw 32 passes in his three games of work. He went from six to nine to 17 attempts in those contests.

The Chiefs opened 5-0, and Smith completed 80 percent, 75 percent, 76.2 percent, 73 percent and 78.4 percent of his pass attempts in those wins.

In 2016, Smith had 46 attempts in three preseason games. In 2015, he had 46 in three preseason contests while with the Chiefs. In 2014, Alex racked up 51 attempts over three preseason affairs. In his first year with Kansas City and Andy Reid, Smith had 48 attempts over three preseason starts in 2013.

The Chiefs started that year 9-0. They won four of five season openers under Smith and Reid.

 

...There are certainly no guarantees either way. However, in a new system with new weapons and terminology, I would have liked to have seen Alex Smith play more on Thursday night.

Game reps and snaps are important, even if you are more at risk. Injuries can happen on the practice field as well.

Maybe it won't matter in the end. But if the Redskins lose their season opener again, and Smith struggles out of the gate, the criticisms of "Club Jay" are going to be very loud.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’m with you.  Crazy to me that we’ve seen merely a glimpse of Smith to this point.  New system and personnel, one would think they’d want to get as much work as possible.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m with you.  Crazy to me that we’ve seen merely a glimpse of Smith to this point.  New system and personnel, one would think they’d want to get as much work as possible.

 

Yeah and I am a little nervous for Jay on this count.  They need to get off to a good start this season and if they lose another opener -- I think the criticism will be an easy ride to go on.  If Dan truly is on edge about this season where its playoffs or bust otherwise heads will roll -- I don't like where this is headed if they lose the opener.  Now if they win obviously all is good.

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah and I am a little nervous for Jay on this count.  They need to get off to a good start this season and if they lose another opener -- I think the criticism will be an easy ride to go on.  If Dan truly is on edge about this season where its playoffs or bust otherwise heads will roll -- I don't like where this is headed if they lose the opener.  Now if they win obviously all is good.

Sure, Winning the first game will be an improvement. But, after that we face the colts (Andrew luck coming back) and then the packers. Even if we start the season 1-0, we could just as easily find ourselves at 1-2 to start the season...1-3 possibly, with the saints coming up after the bye week. 

 

Its going to take a lot more than just a week 1 win to make us all more comfortable with where this team is at in year 5 of Jay Gruden. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Sure, Winning the first game will be an improvement. But, after that we face the colts (Andrew luck coming back) and then the packers. Even if we start the season 1-0, we could just as easily find ourselves at 1-2 to start the season...1-3 possibly, with the saints coming up after the bye week. 

 

Its going to take a lot more than just a week 1 win to make us all more comfortable with where this team is at in year 5 of Jay Gruden. 

 

Obviously its not about just one week but the Cardinals are arguably the weakest opponent of that mix -- you lose that one (making Jay 0-5 in openers) and we get off to a slow start that we never recover from -- not good. 

[bobandweave]

5 hours ago, Morneblade said:

Nope. Didn't hear that at all. In fact, the M.O. on Smith is the complete opposite. He's careful, he DOESN'T take a lot of chance, which is why he is always at the bottom of the league in INT, but also doesn't throw a lot of TD's. Kirk takes a lot more chances, which is why he throws more TD's and INT's. Kirk is more of a gunslinger, Alex is safe and efficient. You literally have them backwards.

 

I really don’t and I’m sure others watching the game recall the comment I mentioned. It was broadcast on ESPN. Anyway no I don’t think that Griffins debut was as good as Smiths, and we all know what Griffin turned out to be. Smith on the other hand showed why he is only one of three QBs to win 50 games the past three seasons. The belief that some have about Andy Reid being the reason for Smiths success is completely overblown and I believe by mid season that people are saying that he’s the best QB this teams had in many decades. Time will tell on that but for sure Kirk was never a risk taker here

 

https://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/11/03/jay-gruden-wants-kirk-cousins-to-give-his-receivers-a-chance/

 

I don’t know why you have them confused but with quotes like that there it clearly shows one of the major issues with Kirk here

[JaxJoe]

I agree SIP. We need to get that monkey off our back and win the first game. Certainly one game does not the season make, but like you said, climbing out of a hole is no way to start the year. 

 

Another monkey is to win at least three-in-a-row. Early on. Then, I will feel like this franchise has finally turned the corner. 

[Sandy Monk]

12 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Sure, Winning the first game will be an improvement. But, after that we face the colts (Andrew luck coming back) and then the packers. Even if we start the season 1-0, we could just as easily find ourselves at 1-2 to start the season...1-3 possibly, with the saints coming up after the bye week. 

 

Its going to take a lot more than just a week 1 win to make us all more comfortable with where this team is at in year 5 of Jay Gruden. 

 

Agree, and I don't like making the first or each game as if it's a must or true indication of what will come.

 

The Redskins could start out with a rough start and still crank it back in the right direction later. I'm as excited as the next fan for the coming games, but I don't want to create extra drama about each week being the all important contest to prove to us what the team is. What the team is in September may easily not be what they are come November.

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

I really don’t and I’m sure others watching the game recall the comment I mentioned. It was broadcast on ESPN. Anyway no I don’t think that Griffins debut was as good as Smiths, and we all know what Griffin turned out to be. Smith on the other hand showed why he is only one of three QBs to win 50 games the past three seasons. The belief that some have about Andy Reid being the reason for Smiths success is completely overblown and I believe by mid season that people are saying that he’s the best QB this teams had in many decades. Time will tell on that but for sure Kirk was never a risk taker here

 

https://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/11/03/jay-gruden-wants-kirk-cousins-to-give-his-receivers-a-chance/

 

I don’t know why you have them confused but with quotes like that there it clearly shows one of the major issues with Kirk here

 

Griff went 4-6 for 70 and a TD. Doesn't matter what Griff turned out to be, it's just that Alex's first game, as a 13 year Vet, was not all that great. Compared to a rookie that as we know, doesn't read defenses well, it was by absolutely no means any better. And that was a far back as I went. There was no need to. I'm sure I could find some PS arm that went 6-6 for 2 TD's that didn't make it through camp.

 

You can believe what you want, but if facts don't back it up, what you think doesn't matter. Alex has been a average QB over his 13 year career. Even with a great offensive mind, his stats were decent, but nothing that jumps out.

 

And to say that Kirk was not a risk taker while he was here is simply false. His YPA prove that. Alex doesn't make many mistakes because he doesn't take risks. Cousins did, made more mistakes, but also more rewards. As in more TD's.  Alex is a good game manager. And if we have a good D, those 2 in combination work well.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

I agree SIP. We need to get that monkey off our back and win the first game. Certainly one game does not the season make, but like you said, climbing out of a hole is no way to start the year. 

 

Another monkey is to win at least three-in-a-row. Early on. Then, I will feel like this franchise has finally turned the corner. 

 

Agree. My point is simple.  There is a narrative (justified or not) that our Qbs aren't getting the reps as some others do in preparation for the opener.  And if that specific context is in play again and it results in another loss in the opener -- then that narrative has some legs to it.   On the other hand, if Alex gets a lot of reps this week and gets some in the 4th game then that narrative has no legs to it regardless of what happens in the opener.  It's about the same context playing on that narrative one way or another.

 

And I admit I have some selfish self interest in that outcome since I am going to that game. 

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree. My point is simple.  There is a narrative (justified or not) that our Qbs aren't getting the reps as some others do in preparation for the opener.  And if that specific context is in play again and it results in another loss in the opener -- then that narrative has some legs to it.   On the other hand, if Alex gets a lot of reps this week and gets some in the 4th game then that narrative has no legs to it regardless of what happens in the opener.  It's about the same context playing on that narrative one way or another.

 

And I admit I have some selfish self interest in that outcome since I am going to that game. 

 

Well, he should get a lot of reps this game, most teams go with the starters for the first half, at least. It's almost 100% likely he won't dress for the 4th game, final cuts will be right after that. So, It's pretty obvious that Alex won't be getting all that many reps going into week one. And if it's another slow start.......

[Sandy Monk]

10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

You can believe what you want, but if facts don't back it up, what you think doesn't matter. Alex has been a average QB over his 13 year career. Even with a great offensive mind, his stats were decent, but nothing that jumps out.

 

 

I don't think Alex's first several years of football are at all relevant to the QB he has been over the last several years. He has been consistently better than average in recent years. Sounds like you are not a fan at all of Alex as the starting QB then. True?

[bobandweave]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Griff went 4-6 for 70 and a TD. Doesn't matter what Griff turned out to be, it's just that Alex's first game, as a 13 year Vet, was not all that great. Compared to a rookie that as we know, doesn't read defenses well, it was by absolutely no means any better. And that was a far back as I went. There was no need to. I'm sure I could find some PS arm that went 6-6 for 2 TD's that didn't make it through camp.

 

You think your making a point point based on stats but football is so much more then that to me. The fact that Griffin scored is meaningless to me as is your assertion that you could find someone else with stats doesn’t mean anything to me. The game of QB is so dependent on things out of his control and if your just boxscore surfing your not grasping what makes a good qb from one that is not good. That’s how your coming off here to me, like your not okay with a fan of the team being impressed with what he saw. Maybe you have an axe to grind idk about but there is no sense in taking up a stance that box scores mean anything with me

 

 

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

You can believe what you want, but if facts don't back it up, what you think doesn't matter. Alex has been a average QB over his 13 year career. Even with a great offensive mind, his stats were decent, but nothing that jumps out.

 

Your right i can think what I want, truth is the more you post about this the more wrong your coming across. Now your bashing Alex Smiths career which is maddness to me but as you said you can think whatever you want and when you reply to me your going to get the truth so if you would rather stop now that might be best for you. 

 

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

And to say that Kirk was not a risk taker while he was here is simply false. His YPA prove that. Alex doesn't make many mistakes because he doesn't take risks. Cousins did, made more mistakes, but also more rewards. As in more TD's.  Alex is a good game manager. And if we have a good D, those 2 in combination work well.

 

 

You must also think that Jay Grudens own words are less then your own opinion because I just pointed out Jays comments saying he needed to give his receivers a chance to make plays and what Kirk was doing in practice just like you don’t give any credence to what the TV announcers said in the game about Alex Smith. It’s clear your no fan of Alex and that’s cool you can feel whatever way you want to but let’s try and keep it to the facts and not just make this about your wrong opinions okay? But truthfully if me speaking my own thoughts bothers you so much please just block me no reason to subject yourself to the truth when your just going to ignore it and make things up like this. Peace

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

Well, he should get a lot of reps this game, most teams go with the starters for the first half, at least. It's almost 100% likely he won't dress for the 4th game, final cuts will be right after that. So, It's pretty obvious that Alex won't be getting all that many reps going into week one. And if it's another slow start.......

 

Yeah I am presuming the same.  We never start our QB in the 4th game.  There are a minority of teams who do on occasion including the Pats, Seahawks, etc.  I'd be cool with it normally but he got no reps in the first game and just one drive in the 2nd game.

[Morneblade]

13 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I don't think Alex's first several years of football are at all relevant to the QB he has been over the last several years. He has been consistently better than average in recent years. Sounds like you are not a fan at all of Alex as the starting QB then. True?

 

He was fine with KC, but not great. I mean it took him till he was 34 to break 4k in passing. He's efficient and doesn't make mistakes. I like that. But I don't see has a great QB either. He's not going to put a team on his back for 4 games. He's not going to be the guy that can bail you out of tough spots. He's a good player, and I think he's a good leader. but no, I don't think he's the guy that is going to take this team deep into the playoffs. We need more pieces around him.

 

13 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

You think your making a point point based on stats but football is so much more then that to me. The fact that Griffin scored is meaningless to me as is your assertion that you could find someone else with stats doesn’t mean anything to me. The game of QB is so dependent on things out of his control and if your just boxscore surfing your not grasping what makes a good qb from one that is not good. That’s how your coming off here to me, like your not okay with a fan of the team being impressed with what he saw. Maybe you have an axe to grind idk about but there is no sense in taking up a stance that box scores mean anything with me

 

 

 

Your right i can think what I want, truth is the more you post about this the more wrong your coming across. Now your bashing Alex Smiths career which is maddness to me but as you said you can think whatever you want and when you reply to me your going to get the truth so if you would rather stop now that might be best for you. 

 

 

You must also think that Jay Grudens own words are less then your own opinion because I just pointed out Jays comments saying he needed to give his receivers a chance to make plays and what Kirk was doing in practice just like you don’t give any credence to what the TV announcers said in the game about Alex Smith. It’s clear your no fan of Alex and that’s cool you can feel whatever way you want to but let’s try and keep it to the facts and not just make this about your wrong opinions okay? But truthfully if me speaking my own thoughts bothers you so much please just block me no reason to subject yourself to the truth when your just going to ignore it and make things up like this. Peace

 

Listen, you made the bragadocious claim that he had the best debut in 40+ years watching the skins, not me. I just smashed it. You don't like numbers? Oh well. That's on you.

 

Oh, now I'm bashing Smith for pointing out he's not Tom Brady. Well..........................................he's not. He's not Rodgers either. Or several other QB's that are better. But that doesn't mean that he isn't a good QB. Just not great. He needs a good team around him to make really good things happen. I'm ok with that. I like that it looks like we're finally getting a good team together.

 

Now you wanna talk facts, but you don't like numbers? Oh, ok then. Sorry, your logic is not adding up. You don't like that I don't worship Alex, tough luck. I think he's a decent QB that has had a really good defense and a really good rushing attack the vast majority of his career. Because that is what he has been. I don't just look at his 17' season. I look at the whole package. Sorry if this upsets you.

[Sandy Monk]

3rd best win % of all starting QBs over the last several years. That doesn't happen for you if you are just an average chump QB. Winning football games is more than fantasy football yards and TD padding. It is efficiency, and situational strategy. It's knowing when and where to lean on team strengths. 

 

Jay brought in Alex so that he can completely focus on the other areas that actually do have question marks.

 

No, he isn't elite, and he shouldn't have to be. This team needs some reasonable health and durability for its best players. The offense needs a decent solution at LG, and answers for the questions at WR depth, if it wants to be top 10.

edit: and dare I not forget this new RB issue

 

The defense must prove they can stop the run, and that they have solutions in the young secondary to hold up a decent defense.

 

Focus on the areas with question marks. QB1 is not one of them. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Lol looks like almost everyone in here is in midseason form—arguing about the QB ? some things never change  

[Morneblade]

@bobandweave

 

ALEX: Air Less EXpected. Developed by Scott Kacsmar in 2015, ALEX measures the average difference between how far a quarterback threw a pass (air yards) and how many yards he needed for a first down. If a quarterback throws a pass 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage on third-and-15, that would be minus-20 ALEX. The best application of ALEX is to look at third and fourth down when it's really crucial to get 100 percent of the need yards to extend the drive. A high ALEX would be indicative of a quarterback who aggressively attacks the sticks, while a low ALEX is indicative of a conservative quarterback more likely to check down and/or rely on YAC. Yes, the name is inspired by Alex Smith, who frequently has one of the lowest ALEX averages in the league.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/glossary

 

That's all I'm sayin'. I like Alex. I like efficient. I like a guy that's smart and doesn't make mistakes. But let's call a spade a spade. He's no gunslinger, he doesn't take a lot of chances.

[Skinsinparadise]

One of the football outsiders guys was on Galdi's shows months back elaborated on the Alex stat and said they will stick to defining conservative QB play to being called Alex because he takes the cake on that front.  He got into the explanation on it by saying his conservatism reflects even how Alex plays on third and long and that no QB they have graded likes to check down in that context more than Alex -- he was saying guys like Aaron Rodgers will just go for it and try to get the first down and air it out but Alex is pathologically conservative so even third and long he is willing to check down on a three yard pass, etc.   He then went on to explain that Alex changed for the first time last season but it wasn't a 100% turnaround but he just turned from very conservative to average conservative. 

 

I think the thing about Alex is this.  You got 2 different camps.

 

A. Alex is sort of like a poor man Tom Brady -- he's really really good, just a little short of elite.

B.  Alex is good but not great.

 

So I don't think Alex has any haters.  It's a faction who thinks he isn't a rock star at QB but good -- and another faction who think he's dynamite or close to it.  Is there a third faction?  If so I haven't picked up on it.  For Group A to have a beef with Group B, I gather they must really be sold that Alex is so great that if you don't see it too -- then you are so wildly off that you must have an agenda.   The thing is there are plenty of NFL observers who don't see Alex as a stud.  It's not some crazy hater position.  

 

I think part of the underpinning of debate that has added some angst to the discussion is because of built in opinions about Kirk and Bruce and in turn does a side ultimately get vindicated, etc.  For me its irrelevant, Alex could be the 2nd coming of Tom Brady and Kirk could play like John Beck in Minny and I'll still think Bruce is a douche and will want him reassigned for multiple other reasons.   

 

And I admit if Kirk played like Dan Marino and that would lead to Bruce's ouster -- I'd be rooting for that to happen in a big way.  But from what I am hearing Bruce is likely phased out, regardless.  So I am not really in the boat of Alex's performance and Bruce's future are wrapped up together.

 

I didn't like the trade because of the match up of Alex's age and this specific roster.  If for example the Jags or another loaded roster traded for Alex, I'd have liked the deal.  But to me a 34 year old QB demands a sense of urgency to win now. That's part of the reason why the RB situation irritates me right now.  

 

I've had some epic debates with bobandweave on this point.  But there is one thing I agree with him on the topic and that is if you are going to get Alex Smith -- go for the gold so speak, don't mess around, give him all the tools he needs.  Win now!  Do I think it will work?  No.  Is that Alex's fault?  nope.  IMO its their ho hum approach to FA.  Give the dude some tools to succeed. 

 

The idea that Alex is some gunslinger type is ridiculous.  And that's not a shot at Alex that's just about what he's been in his career.  If you listen to the KC people who covered him they don't define him as some daredevil Rex Grossman like guy who just throws it up and takes his changes.  It's typically the opposite of that and that's not a shot at Alex but a complement.  He's a conservative QB who doesn't take too many chances and turn doesn't make turnovers.  That's good -- that's a positive.

 

I think where some are confused is some said that Kirk wasn't wiling to take those chances in PRACTICE and Alex is.  That might be true.  But as for games, if Alex is all of a sudden some daredevil Brett Favre type -- that's a whole new leaf for him because that's not who he has been in SF or KC.    Andy Benoit who was like a god to Kirk haters because he wasn't sold on him -- now all of a sudden has become annoying to some of the same group -- because he will swear by the idea that Kirk is a lot more daring than Alex judging by his film reviews.

 

And the idea that Alex is good and not great doesn't make anyone a hater.  A hater would be someone who think Alex stinks -- and I am trying to figure out who that person would be on this thread?

 

It's like saying a restaurant is great, another group says its good.  Is the good group a bunch of people who hate the restaurant? Nope, of course not.  That discussion is more about the ones that are so zealously sold on the restaurant that they can't see anyone who isn't in love with the food.  So IMO the zealousness is on the other side -- not the ones who think the food is good.

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Not about Alex, but Redskin QB's in general.

Can't find a video of that vicious shot and non-call on Colt's helmet hit against the Jets.

But here's another one almost identical.

I wonder how many times Colt's suffered these and if they've taken their toll

 

 

[Sandy Monk]

Some thoughts on that post, SIP.

 

- Alex is neither average nor elite. He's a solid starting QB with brains to expand a playbook, accuracy to create good YAC, and mobility to evade sacks or create yards on broken plays.

 

- Alex has not been a big risk taker, but he did let loose more last year when he finally had the pass pro and worthy WR to do it. 

 

- There are indeed quite a number of haters grouped on every Redskins forum. For whatever the reason, they just don't like to own it, and it's not very hard to discern why that is. ( whether it's bitter Kirk feelings or they just wanted a young and exciting QB instead solid, steady, boring old dude )

 

- Again and again, I will say this. If you are looking for concerns and weaknesses on the team? All this talk of Alex Smith the QB is wasteful and opportunistic in agenda. He's not on the list of weak links.