Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[worldpost]

I sure hope not....  He and Josh Norman, no matter how good they are, are unaffordable when you have to turn over three quarters of your roster.

54 million for two player is folly.

[OlufemiBiz]

No.

[skinfan2k]

7 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

When your GM lets a very good OC go to another team, then the top 2 WR threats go to other teams, its not hard to figure out why.

The so-called talent, Doctson , who is JUST starting to act like he wants to play, a bum QB-wannabe WR  on IR, and the other under-achieving WRs are at best C talent who wouldn't start for any other team in the league outside of maybe SF or Cleveland, and that's only out of desperation, leads to an issue of talent recognition.

 

 

I don't think i can complain that McVay goes somewhere.  That's natural to have teams poach talent off your team if you are a good team, and we were the past 2 eyars.  

the top 2 WRs def didnt deserve to be paid those deals they got but im surprised they didnt even want to add a guy like Torrey Smith who wanted to come back to the area.  

[JSSkinz]

Enough with Garcon and Djax, they weren't our saviors.

 

 

 

[50yrSKINSfan]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

When your GM lets a very good OC go to another team, then the top 2 WR threats go to other teams, its not hard to figure out why.

The so-called talent, Doctson , who is JUST starting to act like he wants to play, a bum QB-wannabe WR  on IR, and the other under-achieving WRs are at best C talent who wouldn't start for any other team in the league outside of maybe SF or Cleveland, and that's only out of desperation, leads to an issue of talent recognition.

 

Obviously the scouts are not worthy, and the guy running the ****-show, Allen, has no idea what he's doing, just pounds on his chest because he's George Allen's son. Cousins probably won't be here much less want to be here after seeing not only how HE'S been treated, but how the offensive players he needs to be successful are cast away, all because Allen has visions of something else. That POS would be a perfect fit for a GEICO commercial; " hi, I'm Bruce Allen, son of George Allen, and I will save you tons of money by counting on me". "Just look at what I did to the Redskins!" .

First your GM cannot stop a assistant from taking a HC job. That is how the NFL operates. Second, if those 2 receivers were that valuable then how come the teams that had them let them go to us? They were just me first guys interested in just a paycheck proven by Garson going to a last place team. Who needs them. I want guys that want to be here and put this team first. I was not crazy about the JD pick but you had to figure you were going to loose at least 1 of your WR so you had to try and replace one of them with a draft pick. Not our fault he is not as good as he was supposed to be. Lots of 1st round draft choices take years to pan out or some are just busts. As far as Prior didn't he have 1k receiving yards last year and we only spent 1 year on him. Smart move getting a 1k receiver on a 1 yr prove it deal. Didn't work out this year but you did not give up a long term deal. So if we had Garson instead of Prior we would still be where we are now only poorer. Without a real good defense and a running game for balance where are you going? You are going to maybe a 500 team and more lousy draft choices. Losing the next 3 games may move us into the top 6 and hopefully we can get a great player like Wentz. A cheap good QB means you can spend money on the rest of your team instead of making 1 guy the highest paid player in the league. 

[DJD2]

The FO will place the transition tag on him to give the appearance that they want him, and then they will let him walk when he receives an offer that they could easily match.

 

Colt McCoy will become the defacto #1, they will sign a retread, and they will draft 2 QB's.

 

 

[UKskins]

15 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

If he can go to another team that has a stacked roster while still being able to afford Kirk, why couldn’t we? That makes no sense. 

 

What abobt all the other high paid QBs that win the SB and compete in the playoffs every year. Their teams seem to be ok 

Because some teams have good players on rookie deals that don't break the bank so don't also have to pay a bunch of free agents top $ too? We don't have many, we don't have draft capital to get that, so I don't understand your point?

 

Not all rosters are equal. Other teams stack their rosters through making a major draft trade to get some big time capital, or through solid talent evaluation. That's not us.

 

Look at other high paid QBs? OK - sure. Brady takes a reduced rate (offset by some dodgy deals with Kraft and a wife who makes more than he does) and Patriots get good value out of the draft. Aaron Rodgers - probably the closest to our situation, but Kirk isn't a 1st ballot HOF type guy or anywhere near Rodgers level talent. AR puts the Packers on his shoulders with mediocre talent a lot of the time and finds a way to win. Kirk does that maybe 40% of the time and the other 60% throws stupid game killing INTs or gets a sack-fumble.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just because the stats are way back like 2,000 posts in the Cousins thread, I'll give you all a pass for the Rodgers "puts the team on his back" stuff.  But the information is all out there.  Even the almighty Rodgers doesn't "put the team on his back" and march to victory as often as you all seem to believe he does.  Exciting, awesome player, no doubt.  One man band, he is not.

[Veryoldschool]

With 133 votes recorded 70 expect him to be gone and 63 expect him back in 2018.  I am surprised the voting is so even.

 

Another factor for Synder to consider is attendance in the league appears to be way down this year.  Some due to the pledge of allegiance controversy, some because the local team is out of it this year and also because attending a game is losing its appeal. When Snyder started out 20 years ago he could mess up any way he wanted and the stadium would be packed.  Year after year, coach after coach and the stadium was packed, now the whole thing looks pretty fragile. 

 

Even without an impasse with his franchise QB, Synder would be sweating the renewals because of the declining attendance overall.  I voted that Snyder will let Cousins walk, it will be a long wait to March. 

[Art]

Cousins continues to be a confounding player.   Individually his stats are really fine and have been really fine.   And every once in a while he does something that appears to be so great an impact as you can point to him being why we won a game.   And every once in a while he does something that appears to be so great an impact as to why we lost the game.   And most of the time he's just on the field playing QB.  Generally fine.   But generally never better than the opposition's QB.

 

Just look at this year.   

 

Eagles visit.   Wentz outplayed Cousins and this was the one game this year Cousins lost on his own.   Missed passes.   Ugly play.   Mistakes.   

 

One game I'd rather have the other team's QB.

 

We go to the Rams.   Goff threw for more yards on fewer attempts and completions.   But also had an interception.   Generally you'd say neither QB played better than the other in this game relative to the defenses they played against, but give a SLIGHT edge to Goff in game and generally if you could have either, right now, who would you prefer?

 

Two games I'd rather have the other team's QB.

 

Raiders visit.   Our high water mark as a team for sure.   Cousins clearly outplayed Carr.   One can fairly debate if they'd rather have Carr to Cousins in a straight up pick.   The general consensus is probably on Carr's side.   But it's probably close.   

 

One game I'd rather have had our QB based on performance on the field in that game.

 

We go to the Chiefs.

 

Smith outplayed Cousins in a direct comparison.   We were gritty and could have won.   But on the whole Smith was better that day.   People would prefer Cousins in a straight pick, but would probably prefer Smith for $15 million than Cousins for $30.

 

Three games I'd rather have the other team's QB.

 

Niners.   Cousins gets the nod though we did make Beathard look way too good.   This is one of Kirk's better games of the year.

 

Two games I'd rather have had our QB.

 

We visit the Eagles.   Cousins played really well.   Over 300 yards.   Three TDs.   30 of 40 passing.   Wentz had 4 TDs and only 268 yards, but, 13 fewer completions for just 35 fewer yards.   Though on the field this is a close one, because they won, their QB had more TDs and their offense was FAR more explosive, you nod with Wentz.

 

Four games I'd rather have the other team's QB.

 

Cowboys visit.   Kirk outplays Dak insanely, made more clear by the superior Cowboys running game.   Some would argue they'd take Dak over Kirk generally, but in this game it was Kirk's day...in a bad loss.

 

Three games I'd rather have had our QB.

 

Seattle time.   Kirk's KEY plays win this game.   His throws in pressure against odds in a tough environment are a high water mark for him as far as individual influence on a game.   Yet he was the second best QB on the day.   Wilson was far more dangerous in every way.   And generally you'd rather have him to Kirk.

 

Five games I'd rather have had their QB.

 

Vikings.  This is really the start of the downfall for the season.   They out manned us and pushed us around.   Kirk played really well against a good defense generally putting up solid numbers.   But as is the case with Kirk, numbers rarely translate into a difference and while NO ONE would pick Keenum over Kirk Keenum had a superior game and greater impact on the outcome in this one.   And, again, for $15 million, I'd be fine with Keenum over a $35 million Cousins.

 

Six games I'd rather have had their QB.

 

Demoralizing Saints loss.   Cousins again plays GREAT.   Over 300 yards.   3 TDs.   Solid against a solid pass defense.    Brees just played a hair better on the whole because when it mattered he didn't miss.   Had OT not happened this would have gone a different way though.   And, of course, you'd STILL take Brees over Cousins to lead your team generally.

 

Seven games I'd rather have had their QB.

 

Boring Giants game.   Cousins gets the nod in game and probably future worth.   But that is not normal in games against the Giants :).

 

Four games I'd rather have had our QB.

 

Visiting Dallas now.   Dak gets the edge in on field performance.   Still a debate as to whether he's better for a team long term or not.   

 

Eight games I'd rather have had their QB.

 

Chargers.   Wow.   Rivers looked every bit the genius.   Cousins did not play well.   We're tanking.   It's not all on Cousins.   But Rivers killed him and probably would be considered as good a leader for a few years as Cousins long term.

 

Nine games I'd rather have had their QB.

 

Generally what I am struck by is on the field Kirk is rarely the best player at his position compared to other top QBs.  Do the same thing for the Pats.   Smith outplayed Brady in game one, two more like that?   Ben had a dog of a game with five interceptions, but has three 500 yard games.   Remember how he torched us a year ago?   Kirk just never seems the reason, that often, his team wins.   He's a fine player.   Productive.

 

Solid.

 

And worth every penny of less than $20 million on a yearly basis.   He doesn't provide enough benefit to those around him to pay him more and lose players around him.   That Green Bay game a year ago was him being awesome.   But there are just not enough of those where he's that guy for THAT price.   Now, if we assume we go 5-11 or 6-10 we can achieve that with anyone at QB.   We don't need a Top 5 paid player to hit that mark, UNLESS that player IS the sole reason you even hit that many wins.   

 

If we hit 7-9, like the Saints for several years, you still don't look at our team and say we are 7-9 BECAUSE we have Cousins while all else is horrific.   The Saints hit 7-9 BECAUSE Brees was still so good in spite of everything else being atrocious.   

 

I really actually like and respect Cousins.   I think he's a hell of a productive, fine player.   He's just NOT a guy you can sink that much into as he won't lift your team when other things suck.   We are beaten up like crazy.   Worn out and down.   Cousins isn't making anyone better and it appears his play is bolstered remarkably by the play around him.   Which is fine, but means sink money in to that.

 

We can achieve 6-10 with Keenum at QB.   Or Colt.   We don't need a $35 million guy.   

 

I know, as well, that Kirk doesn't play the opposing team's other QB.   He plays their defense and they play ours.   So our continued inconsistency on defense seems to make everyone we play have great games, save one or two we jump up and "surprise" by killing someone (see Derek Carr).  The point remains if you go through his career you generally always would take the other team's guy over ours.   That one game I'd have taken Kirk over Rodgers is so outside the norm as to be something you almost have to ignore, as there are at least as many games Keenum is better than Cousins to be worrisome.

 

I'm now on board with you have to let him go, build more depth and find another QB.

 

And when we keep him, as we will, I'll root for him to be great still :).

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Well done, Art. I think you laid out a compelling argument for even those who think Cousins is hovering around or just under "elite" status.  Cousins is good, but it is hard to think of any games against other very good - great QB's where I come away from the game thinking I'd rather have Cousins as the QB then the opposing QB.

[@DCGoldPants]

If Bruce is still here. I think he is likely gone with a chance of being franchised. I don't believe he or his agent will deal with Bruce at all.

 

If there is new front office leadership. Then I bump it to 50% long term deal, 25% franchise tag, and 25% gone.

[Veretax]

Right now I'm thinking the following:

1. By Bye Bruce Allen
2. Jay gets one more year to prove it
3. We tag Kirk
4. Gruden is fired next year
5. Kirk is let go because we decide to start completely over as the team just isn't ready to support cousins, and no point spending all the cash moving forward if we are rebuilding... yet again.

I really really hope I'm wrong on this one

I like kirk, i think he is serviceable but we have not had the personnel in all three phases to support him the last two years.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I think comparing how each QB fared against one another is a pointless exercise that discounts or outright ignores so many different variables.  The most important being the defense on the other side.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, I truly believe the porous defense we've had in DC for the last decade, contributes to fans overhyping opposing QB's because they seem to routinely make things look so easy.  From rookies, to journeyman, to the good, to the elite.  We make damn near everyone look like they should be getting fitted for a gold jacket. 

 

 

[Probos]

They should blow it up and let Kirk walk.  For Kirk's sake I hope that happens.

 

 

[The Slamming Butcher]

19 minutes ago, Probos said:

They should blow it up and let Kirk walk.  For Kirk's sake I hope that happens.

 

 

 

As a fan, I am fine with this as long as Bruce Allen is caught up in the explosion.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think comparing how each QB fared against one another is a pointless exercise that discounts or outright ignores so many different variables.  The most important being the defense on the other side.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, I truly believe the porous defense we've had in DC for the last decade, contributes to fans overhyping opposing QB's because they seem to routinely make things look so easy. 

 

I agree.  The quality of the defense is a major factor IMO.    The Redskins are ranked dead last in points given up in the NFL. Last.   Who isn't lighting up the Redskins defense?  

 

Instead of Kirk facing a litany of a who's who top defenses in the league just about every week let alone with a battered O line and no weapons and little running game (SD for example is the 2nd best in the league in points allowed) -- imagine Kirk playing against the Redskins defense every week with weapons or heck even without them?  Night and day IMO.

 

 

 

[PortisBetts]

This team is too stupid to do the right thing as has been proven time and time again. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think comparing how each QB fared against one another is a pointless exercise that discounts or outright ignores so many different variables.  The most important being the defense on the other side.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, I truly believe the porous defense we've had in DC for the last decade, contributes to fans overhyping opposing QB's because they seem to routinely make things look so easy.  From rookies, to journeyman, to the good, to the elite.  We make damn near everyone look like they should be getting fitted for a gold jacket. 

 

 

@ArtUh, yeah... If Kirk got to play with any of our opposing team’s rosters against our defense...  I’d take Kirk just about every time.  

[Csup]

I don’t know the answer.  But I hope he goes.  I’m not anti-Kirk and I don’t know if he will ever be elite.  But I do know he deserves better than this garbage organization.  

[Tsailand]

16 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

If Kirk got to play with any of our opposing team’s rosters against our defense...  I’d take Kirk just about every time.  

 

Going through our 13 games so far, here are the ones I think where the result changes if we swap QBs with the other team:

Our week 2 win against the Rams turns into a loss.

Week 6 win against the 49ers turns into a loss.

Week 11 loss to the Saints becomes a win.

 

Which drops us to 4-9.  Which would make Kirk a 9-4 QB.

 

As for the rest of the season:

Redskins + Blaine Gabbert vs Cardinals + Kirk = Cards win.

Redskins + Siemian vs Broncos + Kirk = easy Broncos win.

Redskins + Eli vs Giants + Kirk = Uncertain who wins, but the big loser will be the viewers.

 

So Kirk is an 11- or 12-win QB, if he got to play for someone other than the Redskins.

[Peregrine]

A sad thought occurred to me...We are debating whether Kirk is really a good enough QB to keep around next year, and yet Im not sure anyone on here would debate that he is the best QB we have had in the past 20 years.

 

How sad this franchise has become under Snyder.  Its not that we couldnt possibly do better than Kirk, its that I dont trust Snyder and the FO to do anything but make the position worse.

[PigskinRedskin]

I like Kirk Cousins and do wish he'd be our quarterback of the future. I think he can overcome some things (hesitant to work off-schedule - though he has done it a few times with some success) given coaching and consistency to be honest...BUT...

I don't think he really cares for the organization all that much and I don't think the organization cares for him enough for a serious LTD, so in that regards, let's just get this back and forth finally over with and go onto the next "Ring Around the Rosie" situation the Redskins put themselves in. 

[Silvernon]

It's not about that in the salary cap era.

 

Financial choices. 25M to Kirk means he has to be a sub-elite because the supporting cast will be inferior absent sustained draft success.He is the best QB in a good while, but he has been tough to watch at times. 

 

QB KIRK COUSINS, 50.8 OVERALL GRADE His offensive line wasn’t playing well, with RG Brandon Scherff in particular being worked over in pass protection, but Cousins was just a little bit off with a lot of throws in the game that could have made a difference early before the score got out of hand. Cousins had a passer rating of just 56.3 when kept clean in the pocket, passing for just 5.4 yards per attempt.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Kirk had a bad game, as did most everyone else.  It happens.  At no point did I see anything from anyone that suggested we had a chance to win the game.  The two redeemable moments in the entire game were the strike to Grant and the TD to Davis.  Then the defense subsequently gives up a TD in 7 seconds.  Game had disaster written all over it, like a lot of our games for a variety of reasons.  Even if he had a good game, it's not going to be good enough to win.  Similar to the hate Normans getting, they both had bad games where everyone else decided to have a bad game too.  But they are/were the least of our problems at the end of the day.  The middle of the defensive line, the receivers inability to win on routes and/or catch the ball, and the inability to run the ball are much higher on the list.