Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[SWFLSkins]

7 hours ago, Heisenberg said:

Jay certainly has negatives but this team has seemingly always played hard for him, regardless of the circumstances.  His playcalling and clock management sometimes baffle me but I think we could (and probably would) do a lot worse bringing in someone new.

 

 

 

Without looking further I would agree, change for hope that it is going to be better has never served the team well. That said, I hope the Doug Williams, Scot Campbell, Eric Schaeffer are the driving forces in personnel. 

[bedlamVR]

17 hours ago, thebeermonkey said:

An interesting ‘what if’ - McVay and Phillips seem to be doing a remarkable job. We could have had both.

 

Interesting 'what if' - but the RAMS team he has right now is a RAMS team that was held back by Mr Fisher a gutter defensive minded coach who could not come up with a game plan if it bit him on the ass.Seriously. 

 

McVay I think will be an awesome coach for a long time but for us, I think it was just the wrong time. It happens but I can wish him nothing but success - Sean is a very knowledgeable and driven individual.  

 

People keep saying we should have let Gruden go and promoted Sean - but how would that have gone - We have a modicum of success (over 2 years) and we ditch the HC for his protege? Do you think Sean would have wanted the job under those circumstances and how would the team have reacted - Jay is a VERY likable guy - which is important - especially in keeping a team together through adversity... 

 

I am not sure it really sinks in when you are as snake bitten as we have been what effect that has on the play-calling options. How would Sean have coped in these conditions? 

 

I know people keep saying we should avoid comparisons with the past. But it is a useful indicator to just what is going on now and if we are being unreasonable in our expectations. 

 

If we consider the 'golden' years for the franchise to be Coach Gibbs from 1981-1992 - just think - How many times did we win the NFCE over that span? (5 - three of which ended in superbowls) We also finished 3rd or worse in 4 years over that period - just to indicate it is rare in the NFCE to have sustained success and turn over was not nearly as high in terms of roster OR coaches back then. 

 

All we can hope for is to be competitive - and while most people will get hung up on what Jay does on a Sunday in clock management or adjustments - in truth that is a tiny aspect of his job - for this team to come out and compete as it has in the last few weeks is testament to the guy in charge... 

 

Change for the sake of change is never ever a good thing - not when it comes to the Redskins 

 

Also - just as a thought - but did we not beat McVay and the Rams (including Coach Philips) just a few weeks ago - or did i imagine that ?  

 

[CaptainChaos47]

3 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

Interesting 'what if' - but the RAMS team he has right now is a RAMS team that was held back by Mr Fisher a gutter defensive minded coach who could not come up with a game plan if it bit him on the ass.Seriously. 

 

McVay I think will be an awesome coach for a long time but for us, I think it was just the wrong time. It happens but I can wish him nothing but success - Sean is a very knowledgeable and driven individual.  

 

People keep saying we should have let Gruden go and promoted Sean - but how would that have gone - We have a modicum of success (over 2 years) and we ditch the HC for his protege? Do you think Sean would have wanted the job under those circumstances and how would the team have reacted - Jay is a VERY likable guy - which is important - especially in keeping a team together through adversity... 

 

I am not sure it really sinks in when you are as snake bitten as we have been what effect that has on the play-calling options. How would Sean have coped in these conditions? 

 

I know people keep saying we should avoid comparisons with the past. But it is a useful indicator to just what is going on now and if we are being unreasonable in our expectations. 

 

If we consider the 'golden' years for the franchise to be Coach Gibbs from 1981-1992 - just think - How many times did we win the NFCE over that span? (5 - three of which ended in superbowls) We also finished 3rd or worse in 4 years over that period - just to indicate it is rare in the NFCE to have sustained success and turn over was not nearly as high in terms of roster OR coaches back then. 

 

All we can hope for is to be competitive - and while most people will get hung up on what Jay does on a Sunday in clock management or adjustments - in truth that is a tiny aspect of his job - for this team to come out and compete as it has in the last few weeks is testament to the guy in charge... 

 

Change for the sake of change is never ever a good thing - not when it comes to the Redskins 

 

Couldn't agree more with this.  I feel like the turnover rate for our coaches and quarterbacks over the years has fans always looking to the next "great" thing.  It's like as soon as some adversity hits this team most fans give up and want to move onto the next coach or QB.  No successful franchise does things that way.  You have to build something and that takes a few years at least.  Gruden needed time to grow into his role and so did Cousins, that's just the way it is.  If you were promoted to manager from an entry level position you would need the same amount of time and you could always look back at year 1, 2, or 3 of your new position and see where you made mistakes.  I know because I have been there.  If we can keep Gruden and Cousins together for the next 4 or 5 years I think we can really become a force in the league. It takes time and with that win yesterday both Jay and Kirk proved to me that they have what it takes. It wasn't pretty, but in years past that last TD by Seattle would have ended it and yesterday it didn't.

[Paul Cumberland]

 

[Reaper Skins]

25 minutes ago, Paul Cumberland said:

 

Yes, but will they HEADBUTT brick walls for him? 

[Wildbunny]

6 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

Yes, but will they HEADBUTT walls for him? 

 

 

[veteranskinsfan]

I think each year Gruden gets a little better as a head coach.  Hopefully we keep Cousins and Cousins can get better every year too.

Right now the Eagles have their quarterback and new head coach working well together too.   You need a tandem offensively with both

men on the same page. 

Also our defense this year is so much better.  We must re-sign Zach Brown for sure.  Compton played well

yesterday so he is a serviceable backup for sure.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Jay absolutely has his moments with play calling and clock management that infuriate me during the heat of a game.  The reason I don't go off on tangents about why he sucks so bad is a lot like why I don't do the same when Kirk has his blunders.  I watch the rest of the league and see coaches and QB's of all tiers have head scratching moments on the regular.  Sometimes I think we as fans get too caught up in what we can see from the comfort of our couches and have no concept about what it's like in the heat of battle, in a loud stadium with so much chaos going on. 

 

Kind of like I excused Kirk's first 58 minutes for the great drive at the end, I've got to excuse anything Jay did yesterday (not that he did much that ticked me off yesterday anyways) for the shear fact that he left Seattle with a W with that gang of misfits he had starting.  Shows a lot about how the players feel about and respond to him.  It also shows that he's built a pretty good cast of coaches around him to get these guys to play at the level they did all things considered.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Jay Gruden is the best coach we've had here since the early-1990s. I realize that isn't exactly a high bar, but it's not even close to me (and yes, I believe he's better than Gibbs was from 2004-2007). He has the perfect balance of football acumen along with the ability to relate to players and get the most out of them. He's also assembled a very talented staff, some of which have taken lower positions than they've held elsewhere, which demonstrates that he's a true leader. 

 

As much as I love Kirk Cousins, if I had to pick one person associated with this organization who I could ensure would stick long-term, it would be the head coach. I think he deserves the majority of the credit for our "success" between 2015 and now (21-18-1 over 2.5 seasons). 

[SWFLSkins]

@Paul Cumberland

 

Was just going to post that, pretty telling that Mason stated this, now if Jay can get over running early on first down and We buy him a game watch,,,,,,hahahaa

[RVAskins]

I'm not sure why there is so much negativity towards Gruden. I think he has done a good job and the team is moving in a positive direction. I also think he's assembled the best coaching staff that has been here in a very long time.

Cavanaugh, Callahan, Manusky, Tomsula, Gray.....that's a pretty strong group right there. They seem to be very good teachers. I hope they stick together for a long time.

[Tsailand]

10 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

The one he took prior to the last play?

 

Bleh, no harm in taking a TO and make sure you get everything ready and get your best players on the field. Double check and extra rest for your D that has been on the field so long couldn't harm at all...

 

As things stood, the game clock was going to wind down from :04 on the ref's signal, so Seattle would have to snap immediately.

 

After Jay's call, the teams both got the timeout to talk things over, and then after the timeout Seattle had the :25 second play clock to snap.  They could use that to go in motion, set, go in motion again, try a hard count to draw us offside, etc. 

 

Stupid.

 

 

 

PS: I wasn't even going to mention the separate problem with scoring too fast and giving Seattle the ball back, since we all know Jay always goes for the "safe" move that ensures he won't be blamed for a loss. 

[Wildbunny]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Jay absolutely has his moments with play calling and clock management that infuriate me during the heat of a game.  The reason I don't go off on tangents about why he sucks so bad is a lot like why I don't do the same when Kirk has his blunders.  I watch the rest of the league and see coaches and QB's of all tiers have head scratching moments on the regular.  Sometimes I think we as fans get too caught up in what we can see from the comfort of our couches and have no concept about what it's like in the heat of battle, in a loud stadium with so much chaos going on.

I would guess that's because as fans we don't see what coaches and players' do on the field.

Calling a TO in the early 3rd looks like a WTF moment? But we don't have any clue of the play call, maybe they saw something they didn't like and called the TO to prevent a gaffe on the field. Those are invisible stuff to us that we can only guess...

 

19 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

As things stood, the game clock was going to wind down from :04 on the ref's signal, so Seattle would have to snap immediately.

 

After Jay's call, the teams both got the timeout to talk things over, and then after the timeout Seattle had the :25 second play clock to snap.  They could use that to go in motion, set, go in motion again, try a hard count to draw us offside, etc. 

 

Stupid.

Lol?!

Really?

 

Everyone in the stadium through the announcer, and even me in front of my comp knew what was gonna happen. Motion, stuff like that would have been pointless...

Offsides? lol OK.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

I would guess that's because as fans we don't see what coaches and players' do on the field.

Calling a TO in the early 3rd looks like a WTF moment? But we don't have any clue of the play call, maybe they saw something they didn't like and called the TO to prevent a gaffe on the field. Those are invisible stuff to us that we can only guess...

 

I'm not disagreeing with you which is why I alluded to the fact that most fans tend to think every decision is an easy one based on the way it appears to us from the comfort of our recliners.  My primary grievance with Jay has been running it right into stacked boxes creating &long situations.  Even then I don't pretend to be smarter than he is and try to convince myself that he's got some bigger picture plan that I can't see.

[Tsailand]

18 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Everyone in the stadium through the announcer, and even me in front of my comp knew what was gonna happen. Motion, stuff like that would have been pointless...

Offsides? lol OK.

 

Yeah but they didn't know exactly when the snap would come.  And Seattle had gotten plenty of extra time to plan what they were going to do.  There's a reason that Hail Mary attempt was such a close one, even though it failed.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

 

Yeah but they didn't know exactly when the snap would come.  And Seattle had gotten plenty of extra time to plan what they were going to do.  There's a reason that Hail Mary attempt was such a close one, even though it failed.

Hail Mary are always close. QBs slings them in the air and Receivers and DBs gather under it to try to grab it.

When was the last time a Hail Mary was completly off target?

 

Snap count? Useless here, even if an offside they weren't gonna kick it so...

 

You just seem to **** at Gruden for whatever reason here Tsailand. There's none to complain about that TO really...

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

As things stood, the game clock was going to wind down from :04 on the ref's signal, so Seattle would have to snap immediately.

 

After Jay's call, the teams both got the timeout to talk things over, and then after the timeout Seattle had the :25 second play clock to snap.  They could use that to go in motion, set, go in motion again, try a hard count to draw us offside, etc. 

 

Stupid.

During the review, Seattle set up their play and were not going to have any issues getting the ball snapped in 4 seconds. The timeout just allowed us to set our defense. The timeout didn't benefit them, it benefited us.

 

Now, if you want to wish that we had a coaching staff that would have prepared a play during the review like Seattle did, then that is a legit wish.

 

(p.s. "draw us offsides"? wtf?)

[MisterPinstripe]

Well, in reality the Seahawks should never have had another play, we almost got screwed. You can see that the clock stops running when he is sacked, clock operator gave them another play. It took them way more than 11 seconds to get back to the line and line up for a spike.

[SWFLSkins]

18 hours ago, RVAskins said:

I'm not sure why there is so much negativity towards Gruden. I think he has done a good job and the team is moving in a positive direction. I also think he's assembled the best coaching staff that has been here in a very long time.

Cavanaugh, Callahan, Manusky, Tomsula, Gray.....that's a pretty strong group right there. They seem to be very good teachers. I hope they stick together for a long time.

 

Buy, Sell or Hold is fluid....it changes by the week, sometimes during it just based on comment. 

 

My two issues with him stand, doesn't mean I have remained in Sell or Hold. But those two issues have remained and it is concerning that it cost the team games and would cost them big games against Coaches who tend to not make these mistakes. To compare him to Gibbs is a mistake.... The guy had a knack for ziggin when the other team thought he was going to Zag. Running some sort of play out of a formation that was run three or four times during the game with a predictable play. He would set the other team up for licking it's chops only to kick them in the ass with something else.

 

I don't apologize for wanting Jay to pick up that ability. 

 

The clock mgt. issues IMO cost Andy Reid thankfully, SB trophies in Philly, well at least one. Again, I only wish Jay to be better there. 

 

The hires Jay has made are awesome, and it would be far better to have continuity. I like the fact that all the Coaches you mentioned are not up and comers that will leave within a year or two, they are experienced probably wanna finish their careers as longs as it's going well Guys. 

 

So yes, this week with the W, I'm back in the Buy column. Some fans can't handle market fluctuations, they are volatile, seem emotion, but in reality it's based on market condition. 

[SWFLSkins]

A Gibbs style moment....... 

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[Jacoby66forHOF]

Gruden leading a team with that O-line to a victory in Seattle was huge.  I'm buying.

[Jumbo]

45 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

 

 

a familiar and vapid form of expression that's kind of a whiny ruffled-feathered defensive deflection for being accurately criticized in most cases

 

 

 

 

[Diehard Otis]

1 hour ago, Jacoby66forHOF said:

Gruden leading a team with that O-line to a victory in Seattle was huge.  I'm buying.

Me too.

 

But I bought awhile ago, and haven't had any major issues OTHER than the fact that he doesn't Beat The Hated Rival.  
Otherwise, I support him.

 

My thing is simple; Jay Wins!  He Wins, and The Redskins have grown into a Team you don't wanna **** with.  That hasn't happened by accident.

[Jumbo]

I don't like his eyes. There's something off. Maybe corrective apparatus is available.  If we do nothing about those eyes, no good will come of this in the end. Plus he does too much stupid stuff still if he wants to win the big one. I should probably tell him that, too.