Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

SELL

[skins island connection]

2 hours ago, Panninho said:

For me this is the primary reason why we are struggling offensively, especially in the redzone.

Yeah Sean McVay is doing great with the Rams offense, but he didn't get the running game going here as well and now he has Todd Gurley and the offense takes off. A good running game opens up so much. Look at the Cowboys today, got nothing going in the running game with Elliott out and they are doing nothing offensively. We need a stud running back, for me this is the primary need we have.

If we had a stud running back, we would have so many more possibilities. But no one is respecting our running game...

 

 True, but you have to question if the o-line is capable of being good at run blocking. They seem to be ok in the pass block, but finding a hole on running plays is difficult. Even when they actually DO, the RB doesn't see the hole or hesitates too long and it closes.

 

This off-season needs a bruising RB and 2 WRs who are over 6'2 who can actually catch and run. While they're at it, look for a TE who can block AND catch, like most other teams have. I like Reed and Davis, but neither are worth a damn blocking, and Reed is too injury-prone. I don't see a future with him here, he's too one-dimensional.

[NoVaSkins21]

2 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

let me know of a coach who can do this without a playmaker on either side of the ball?  the offense has been a joke since he has gotten here.  Please dont tell me desean jackson or jordan reed.  the defense finally got a gamechanger this year in zach brown. 

 

You seem to a die-hard supporter of Gruden.  I wonder what you'll be saying next year when Cousins is probably going to be somewhere else and they'll be starting over.  Gruden's offense has no identity.  There is no run game and it's more pass first which teams have game planned for.  He's not someone innovative like a Sean McVay.  He's not anywhere close to someone like Joe Gibbs who you mentioned in an earlier post.  He's average and will probably be here for a few more years since he recently signed that extension.  

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 

 True, but you have to question if the o-line is capable of being good at run blocking. They seem to be ok in the pass block, but finding a hole on running plays is difficult. Even when they actually DO, the RB doesn't see the hole or hesitates too long and it closes.

 

This off-season needs a bruising RB and 2 WRs who are over 6'2 who can actually catch and run. While they're at it, look for a TE who can block AND catch, like most other teams have. I like Reed and Davis, but neither are worth a damn blocking, and Reed is too injury-prone. I don't see a future with him here, he's too one-dimensional.

 

Run blocking is obviously also a problem. I think Williams and Scherff are generally doing nicely, Moses is okay and Long and Lauvao are below average in that regard. If Roullier can develop more we could move Long to Guard where I think he is a better fit. Nontheless, run blocking has to get better and especially the TEs are weak in run blocking.

BUT even if there is room, we usually get not a lot going. Today Perrine had the possibility to break a big one but he got tackled around the feet from behind and it was "only" 8 yards or something. It feels like there is always a step missing. Sometimes we catch the other team off balance with a draw but we lack a running back that can hit a homerun on every play because our running backs lack vision and speed. With Kelley we basically have to run it up the middle because he lacks speed and with Thompson we need to run it to the outside because he lacks power.

I love the skill-set of Thompson but we need a running back that has more to offer on first and second down. The playbook is pretty decimated with either running back on the field. With Gurley, Elliott, etc. you have basically every option on every play. It is obviously hard to find running backs like that but I feel like we have to take a chance on a player early in the draft and not rely on late round picks to get it done.

 

[skins island connection]

 With Allen's fingers in everything he can get them into, it will be difficult to really take care of needs. His 'ideas' and 'suggestions' are something this teram can do without. But when you have the owner wrapped around your finger, I'm not getting my hopes up.  I've seen his work before. Control freak.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, SAli457180 said:

 

You seem to a die-hard supporter of Gruden.  I wonder what you'll be saying next year when Cousins is probably going to be somewhere else and they'll be starting over.  Gruden's offense has no identity.  There is no run game and it's more pass first which teams have game planned for.  He's not someone innovative like a Sean McVay.  He's not anywhere close to someone like Joe Gibbs who you mentioned in an earlier post.  He's average and will probably be here for a few more years since he recently signed that extension.  

Hard to have an identity when you have no talent at RB and your best WR is Ryan freaking Grant.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Again, I'm a sell.

 

But...

 

If you don't respect that gameplan today against the best D in the NFC, I can't help ya.  Jay and Kirk cooked up  a 17 point appetizer in the first.

 

The 4th & 2 throw to Thompson was perfection.  Shoulda been a touch...

[markmills67]

SELL.

 

Replace him with Matt Patricia the DC of the Patriots. 

 

HTTR 

 

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, markmills67 said:

SELL.

 

Replace him with Matt Patricia the DC of the Patriots. 

 

HTTR 

 

You want to replace him with one of the worst D in the league this year?

Ok...

[fordranger76]

For me the offense hums. Go back and look at nearly every game and you will see that several big plays are missed a game in this offense. Be it misthrow, drop, wrong cut, etc. That is on the players not himself. They connect with those plays and this thread doesn't even exist. A couple of better throws and one broken ankle tackle yesterday and we are looking at least another 14 points. THE PLAYS ARE THERE! He sometimes calls an oddball sequence of plays but I have not had this much confidence in a coach since Gibbs 1.0. I feel like no matter who is playing that this guy can draw up something that will win a ballgame. 

[bowhunter]

10 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 

This off-season needs a bruising RB and 2 WRs who are over 6'2 who can actually catch and run. While they're at it, look for a TE who can block AND catch, like most other teams have. I like Reed and Davis, but neither are worth a damn blocking, and Reed is too injury-prone. I don't see a future with him here, he's too one-dimensional.

I'm optimistic that Doctson and Mo Harris can fulfill the WR order you placed. VD is doing some amazing TE work, but he is getting a little old. Grant actually catches passes, which means he deserves be on the field. And I agree that we need a bruiser RB. I really liked the look of 6'2" 250+ lb FB Ryan Anderson yesterday, but sadly that play didn't turn out very well.

[pjfootballer]

At this point, I'm not ready to change the head coach.  What I DO want next year is another McVay to call the plays.  I've never been a fan of the head coach being the play caller.  Too much going on around you during the game to take care of.  Find another OC to call the plays.

[markmills67]

3 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

You want to replace him with one of the worst D in the league this year?

Ok...

67 points conceded in last 5 games, obviously conceding an average of 15 points a game is far , far to many for your liking. Seems to me that Patricia has turned it round. What do you think?.

 

HTTR 

[Skinsinparadise]

Albert Breer‏Verified account @AlbertBreer7m7 minutes ago

More

Albert Breer Retweeted Grant Paulsen

And that's with turnover at both coordinator spots, and the loss of the team's two best receivers.

Albert Breer added,

Grant PaulsenVerified account @granthpaulsen

Correct assessment that will irritate lots of people: The Redskins look to be headed for a record around .500 despite the hardest schedule in NFL and mass injuries. Jay Gruden has done a good job this season.

2 replies7 retweets14 likes

 

[thebeermonkey]

The biggest issue with him is something he says an awful lot after games -‘we weren’t ready’ 

 

once is acceptable. I don’t mind getting beat when the other team plays better than us performing at a high level. There’s just a continual issue when teams don’t need to play at a high level to beat us and that is on coaching. I think he is heading in the right direction on a lot of things but he needs one of the following IMO -

 

An OC he can work with who has interesting ideas.

 

A fricking good running back.

 

Hes been very unlucky with the schedule.

[sebestian]

20 hours ago, celticsalmon said:

Gruden is where he is because of his brother and the Bruce Allen Tampa Bay Connection. Period! Those are his qualifications!

 

This exactly.

 

I wanted to post something to this extent yesterday.  

 

I thought name recognition only worked in politics. Then again it is the Washington Redskins. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, markmills67 said:

67 points conceded in last 5 games, obviously conceding an average of 15 points a game is far , far to many for your liking. Seems to me that Patricia has turned it round. What do you think?.

 

HTTR 

 

That they played  bucs chargers broncos jets and atlanta in that span...

Not much to fear here...

[Warhead36]

I don't get the Patricia hype. Bellicheck assistants don't pan out as head coaches. Look across the league. They all end up sucking. McDaniels, Crennell, Weiss sucked in college. O'Brien has done okay, but his record is basically on par with Gruden's and that's with way more talent on D and a division that has been terrible.

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't get the Patricia hype. .

 

He has a great beard.

 

And people think that Bill Bellichick has rubbed off on him like Bill Parcells rubbed off on Bellichick. I'm not sure if it's true or not. But he definitely has a great beard.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Albert Breer‏Verified account @AlbertBreer7m7 minutes ago

More

Albert Breer Retweeted Grant Paulsen

And that's with turnover at both coordinator spots, and the loss of the team's two best receivers.

Albert Breer added,

Grant PaulsenVerified account @granthpaulsen

Correct assessment that will irritate lots of people: The Redskins look to be headed for a record around .500 despite the hardest schedule in NFL and mass injuries. Jay Gruden has done a good job this season.

2 replies7 retweets14 likes

 

1. I think Jay the coach has done an admirable job in a lot of areas.  In general the team is prepared, stayed together and fought through all the injuries.  Game plans have been very good, play calling has been fine most of the time minus a few suspect ones (and you're always going to have that), and he's handled adversity well.  I don't think he's done anything to deserve being fired as HC.  And I'm one of his biggest critics.  That said...

 

2. I think his in-game clock management is atrocious a lot of the time.  He approaches Andy Reid level of stupid at times.  NOTE: I also believe that Reid might be overall the 3rd or 4th best coach in the league, even if he couldn't run a clock if he was pushing it on a cart.

 

3. In fairness, the turnover at the DC position is because he made possibly the stupidest DC hire in the history of football.  And I'm not exaggerating.  There was exactly nothing on Joe Barry's resume as a DC, including being the DC of an 0-16 team, that would lead you to believe he was any good.  When you hire the guy with the worst overall resume in the history of the league as a DC, and it doesn't pan out, that's on you.  It was stupid the minute he announced it, it remained stupid for the 2 years Barry was here, and it remains the stupidest decision he's made as HC.  He made the decision to turn over the DC position because he had no other choice.  

 

4. Gruden did lose his 2 top receivers, but I am willing to bet all of the money in my pockets vs. all of the money in your pockets that he told Allen they could get by with Grant, Doctson and Harris.  This is second on his list of stupid decisions. They needed to either a. keep Garcon or DJax at whatever the cost, or b. hit the FA market HARD for a starting WR.  They did neither, and I am absolutely convinced it's because he thought he could survive because of his system with guys who know what to do.  

 

5. He also probably thought that they could get by with Rob Kelley as a starting RB, which is why they drafted a guy in the middle rounds and NEVER, EVER brought in any legitimate veteran competition.  Which is also seriously stupid. Probably 3rd on the list of stupid.

 

My conclusion is that Gruden the personnel guy is failing Gruden the HC.  He should never have to figure out how to game plan with Grant as a starting WR, because he shouldn't be a starting WR.  And make no mistake, the plan going into training camp was that Grant is the starting Z receiver.  Coach said-so himself.  Both Pryor and Doctson play X, Grant starts at Z, Crowder in the slot.  That WAS THE GOD DAMN PLAN.  That's a stupid plan.  So Coach Gruden has had to overcome his own stupid personnel decisions a lot of the time.

 

And, again, he's been able to do it most of the time.  So credit to him for that.  But he shouldn't HAVE to do it.  And a better GM/Organization wouldn't allow him to have to do it.  Even if that would be uncomfortable for Gruden, because some of his try-hard Gruden guys would not be here and he'd be forced to make it work with other guys who might have more talent.  

 

19 hours ago, SAli457180 said:

 

McVay and Joe Barry have to be be laughing at Gruden and the rest of this organization right now.  I bet McVay couldn't wait to GTFOH and start carving his path as a HC.  

Barry is the village idiot of DCs. 

 

McVay learned a lot from Gruden, I'm sure.  But he has the personality, attention to detail, command and work ethic to be a GREAT HC.  I don't think he was really jonesing to leave.  But he got a HC job, and away he went.

 

I would have sacked Gruden and hired McVay in 1/2 a second.  But I am probably in the minority.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

3. In fairness, the turnover at the DC position is because he made possibly the stupidest DC hire in the history of football. 

Possibly two of the worst in history. 

[markmills67]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

 

That they played  bucs chargers broncos jets and atlanta in that span...

Not much to fear here...

Oh in that case, we can take our 5 defeats away from us because them teams were too good for us. WOW were 4-0 ????? playoffs here we come.

 

HTTR 

[Wildbunny]

50 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Oh in that case, we can take our 5 defeats away from us because them teams were too good for us. WOW were 4-0 ????? playoffs here we come.

 

HTTR 

Unrelated at all.

You bring up the performance level of the Pats in the last five games, then I believe it is relevant to bring the level of the opponents they faced during that span. Because when they played better ones they got completly owned.

 

Let's stop with the Patriots' assistants hype, they all went nowhere after leaving NE as @Warhead36 pointed out.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't get the Patricia hype. Bellicheck assistants don't pan out as head coaches. Look across the league. They all end up sucking. McDaniels, Crennell, Weiss sucked in college. O'Brien has done okay, but his record is basically on par with Gruden's and that's with way more talent on D and a division that has been terrible.

 

He majored in aeronautical engineering at RPI.  The dude is smart.  Find anything you can for that guy and just get out of the way.

 

Not to say that all smart people should be an NFL coach, but if he can relate to people, motivate and instruct them, I'll take that any time.  

 

No chance he leaves the Pats though, not sure why he would.

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I would have sacked Gruden and hired McVay in 1/2 a second.  But I am probably in the minority.  

I can see the reasoning behind it, and I might like it as well.

 

Still I can't help myself but think that doing such a thing would have had a terrible impact on McVay regarding loyalty, fairness, in this organisation. Here you still have the opportunity to get him back if Gruden ever leaves for any reason, and if he happens to be available at that time.

You rarely make a friend out of someone by sacking his friend, because the two are really close.