Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[skins island connection]

You know it was a screwed up situation when your team's failure to secure a win is trending on yahoo.

2 hours ago, FuriousD said:

I'm still buying! In fact, I'll gonna have buy, buy, buy, buy, ham, eggs and buy.

 

It helps that I'm probably one tenth as emotionally invested in Skins football this year as in years passed.  I recommend it... I'm not bitter and I'm not angry and my Sundays are better for it. But I like Gruden and I want him to stay on. And I LOVE his offense,... best we've had since Gibbs-1!

 

 Reminds me of times when I see a 92' Plymouth cruising down the road. Primer gray where the rust hasn't bled through, smoke coming out of the tailpipe, one or more of the windows have a bag covering where glass once was, but it has great wheels on it.

[fordranger76]

The man calls 65 plays on offense. The other 64 are forgotten. Sell because he doesn't have 100 percent play call rate. Forget that he is playing with a mash unit. Forget that they have the hardest schedule in the NFL. Forget that he gets the backups ready to play mere hours before the game. Yes. We need to judge him on 1 play alone where even then the player screwed up the play not the coach. Forget the team still fields a top ten offensive unit with a mix of backups, ex-Quarterbacks, and a still learning second year player. Yes. Sell.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, fordranger76 said:

The man calls 65 plays on offense. The other 64 are forgotten. Sell because he doesn't have 100 percent play call rate. Forget that he is playing with a mash unit. Forget that they have the hardest schedule in the NFL. Forget that he gets the backups ready to play mere hours before the game. Yes. We need to judge him on 1 play alone where even then the player screwed up the play not the coach. Forget the team still fields a top ten offensive unit with a mix of backups, ex-Quarterbacks, and a still learning second year player. Yes. Sell.

 

Come on man. The SITUATION is why it matters. You run a QB sneak and the game is over. In all honesty I would have run another one on 4th down if he didnt get it the first down on the first one.

[samy316]

Yesterday was Jay Gruden's worst performance as an HC, even worse than the KC game earlier this year.  2 takeaways from today that cemented in my mind that Jay Gruden is basically Norv Turner 2.0:

 

The 3rd and 1 play where if Kirk sneaks it, we win the game.  Perine had been outstanding all game long, but when you have a 3rd and inches, and there are 10-11 guys at the line of scrimmage (basically a goal line defense), what do you call up?  An up the gut run, that's not going anywhere, and basically loses you 2 yards on that play.  Your season is on the line, and Drew Brees has been perfect in the 4th quarter with momentum swinging towards the Saints, and that's what you call up????  You had no trouble calling for a fake punt deep in your own territory in the third quarter, but when the game is on the line, you turn gutless all of a sudden?  I knew we lost right there when he made that boneheaded call.  Just disgraceful.

 

Going away from Josh Doctson in the second half.  You had Doctson lighting up the Saints in the first half (4 Rec, 81 Yds), and you decide to in Gruden's words (spread the ball around)???  What the hell kind of thinking is that?  You have a young receiver having his best day as a pro, and you decide that you want to go away from that???  For what purpose?  You didn't think once to look his way late in the game, and more importantly in overtime???  He won you a game a few weeks ago, and you decide to not look his way for moronic purposes.  This is the opposite of being a good head coach.  If something's working, you ride it until it doesn't anymore.  Doctson should've had 200+ yards yesterday the way he was playing, but Gruden messed that up.  You never, EVER as a head coach go away from what's working.

 

People can talk all they want about Cousins and the defense (believe me the defense is also responsible), but as a head coach, you put your players in the best position to win, and yesterday Jay Gruden just cost this team a legitimate chance at the postseason because of his stupid, gutless decision making.  You know that the Saints are not going away lightly, and you need to win the game on OFFENSE.  The great coaches would call up literally anything else besides that putrid 3rd and 1 play.  I really think that Gruden will keep this team from realizing its full potential.  We're never going to win more than 9 or 10 games a season mostly because of our head coach.  He is the definition of mediocre.  He's just good enough not to be terrible, but not anywhere near good enough to be a top half NFL coach.

[RonBurgandy]

After having some time to cool off, I've come to the understanding Jay is the coach we need. I/we as a fan base tend to forget where we were before Jay showed up. He's been steadily improving our team and our culture. Our record does define us, but it doesn't. To the league we're 4-6, to me we're 6-4 maybe 7-3. What I'm getting too is our level of play and our talent is getting better and better. Let's just ride the rest of the season out and enjoy. It's been a very long time that I'm looking towards next season with a gut feeling of success is almost guaranteed for us. We can take solace in the schedule will never be worse than what it was this year, our Defense is going to be healthy and loaded, and our offense will have more fire power. All we have to do is accept this year is the Eagles time to shine, but little do they know, a beast is brewing in the basement. That beast is soon going to be unleashed when the time is right.

HTTR

[DM72]

4 minutes ago, RonBurgandy said:

After having some time to cool off, I've come to the understanding Jay is the coach we need. I/we as a fan base tend to forget where we were before Jay showed up. He's been steadily improving our team and our culture. Our record does define us, but it doesn't. To the league we're 4-6, to me we're 6-4 maybe 7-3. What I'm getting too is our level of play and our talent is getting better and better. Let's just ride the rest of the season out and enjoy. It's been a very long time that I'm looking towards next season with a gut feeling of success is almost guaranteed for us. We can take solace in the schedule will never be worse than what it was this year, our Defense is going to be healthy and loaded, and our offense will have more fire power. All we have to do is accept this year is the Eagles time to shine, but little do they know, a beast is brewing in the basement. That beast is soon going to be unleashed when the time is right.

HTTR

 

Under Gruden and this management, you can forget about ever becoming a beast. 8-8 or 9-7 is the ceiling and maybe squeezing into the playoffs every so often is as far as this team is going to go.

[50yrSKINSfan]

19 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Come on man. The SITUATION is why it matters. You run a QB sneak and the game is over. In all honesty I would have run another one on 4th down if he didnt get it the first down on the first one.

This is the correct play call not a sweep with your line pulling with the other team crashing the line with all 11 defenders. There is too much of a chance of penetration which did happen. Even if you try a sneak and it fails at least you do not loose 5 dam yards like he did which forces you to punt. Another JG brainstorm. Try a sneak or if you have a 235lb back you run him 2 times into the line or jump over it.

[zoony]

I hope these experiences teach him something

 

I still buy Gruden though, mostly beccause HC is the most overrated position in the history of pro football.  We need at least one more solid draft class and a few more splashy free agent signings

 

I do felt like gruden tok a few more risks yesterday.  Two years ago he would have gone ultra conservative on our last td drive... and never would have tried that fake punt.

 

The 3rd and 1 should have been PA run pass option for kirk

[kingdaddy]

31 minutes ago, samy316 said:

Yesterday was Jay Gruden's worst performance as an HC, even worse than the KC game earlier this year.  2 takeaways from today that cemented in my mind that Jay Gruden is basically Norv Turner 2.0:

 

The 3rd and 1 play where if Kirk sneaks it, we win the game.  Perine had been outstanding all game long, but when you have a 3rd and inches, and there are 10-11 guys at the line of scrimmage (basically a goal line defense), what do you call up?  An up the gut run, that's not going anywhere, and basically loses you 2 yards on that play.  Your season is on the line, and Drew Brees has been perfect in the 4th quarter with momentum swinging towards the Saints, and that's what you call up????  You had no trouble calling for a fake punt deep in your own territory in the third quarter, but when the game is on the line, you turn gutless all of a sudden?  I knew we lost right there when he made that boneheaded call.  Just disgraceful.

 

Going away from Josh Doctson in the second half.  You had Doctson lighting up the Saints in the first half (4 Rec, 81 Yds), and you decide to in Gruden's words (spread the ball around)???  What the hell kind of thinking is that?  You have a young receiver having his best day as a pro, and you decide that you want to go away from that???  For what purpose?  You didn't think once to look his way late in the game, and more importantly in overtime???  He won you a game a few weeks ago, and you decide to not look his way for moronic purposes.  This is the opposite of being a good head coach.  If something's working, you ride it until it doesn't anymore.  Doctson should've had 200+ yards yesterday the way he was playing, but Gruden messed that up.  You never, EVER as a head coach go away from what's working.

 

People can talk all they want about Cousins and the defense (believe me the defense is also responsible), but as a head coach, you put your players in the best position to win, and yesterday Jay Gruden just cost this team a legitimate chance at the postseason because of his stupid, gutless decision making.  You know that the Saints are not going away lightly, and you need to win the game on OFFENSE.  The great coaches would call up literally anything else besides that putrid 3rd and 1 play.  I really think that Gruden will keep this team from realizing its full potential.  We're never going to win more than 9 or 10 games a season mostly because of our head coach.  He is the definition of mediocre.  He's just good enough not to be terrible, but not anywhere near good enough to be a top half NFL coach.

Well said. My fear is that the injuries are gonna bail Jay out and buy him another year. I think, with the right coach, this team can be great next year with the right off-season personnel moves. This team is good enough to compete but now win....someone has to take it to the next level.

[RonBurgandy]

If we get rid of Jay, who do we replace him with?

I'm so pissed we let Mcvay go to LA. He would be ideal to take over.

 

[Wildbunny]

42 minutes ago, zoony said:

I hope these experiences teach him something

 

I still buy Gruden though, mostly beccause HC is the most overrated position in the history of pro football.  We need at least one more solid draft class and a few more splashy free agent signings

 

I do felt like gruden tok a few more risks yesterday.  Two years ago he would have gone ultra conservative on our last td drive... and never would have tried that fake punt.

 

The 3rd and 1 should have been PA run pass option for kirk

That's what I don't get with him sometimes...

He can be so good at calling gutsy unexpected plays... Sometimes you Wonder why he's calling so casual...

 

At some point, I wouldn't get mad had he called a PA on 3rd and 1 just because he wanted to be fun, just like that fake punt call right after CT injury, a real "**** you Saints guys, I'm gonna put it down your throats". Heck, call a bomb on 3rd and 1, I don't care.

 

22 minutes ago, RonBurgandy said:

If we get rid of Jay, who do we replace him with?

I'm so pissed we let Mcvay go to LA. He would be ideal to take over.

 

In case you didn't noticed, McVay got owned by this Vikings D scoring 7.

Jay put 30 on them.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

 

At some point, I wouldn't get mad had he called a PA on 3rd and 1 just because he wanted to be fun, just like that fake punt call right after CT injury, a real "**** you Saints guys, I'm gonna put it down your throats". Heck, call a bomb on 3rd and 1, I don't care.

 

 

You aren't lying.  Pretty much anything other than the play that was actually called.  I'm screaming at my television "This is an automatic loss of yard, please be play action boot, something, anything, Noooooooooooooooo!".

[quettefan]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You aren't lying.  Pretty much anything other than the play that was actually called.  I'm screaming at my television "This is an automatic loss of yard, please be play action boot, something, anything, Noooooooooooooooo!".

I did the same thing...yelling at the TV: "Don't run it, bootleg Cousins outside, get the first down and slide or play action and dump it to a TE over the middle". Gruden's play calling when they have a "comfortable" lead is too predictable.

[Wildbunny]

2 minutes ago, quettefan said:

I did the same thing...yelling at the TV: "Don't run it, bootleg Cousins outside, get the first down and slide or play action and dump it to a TE over the middle". Gruden's play calling when they have a "comfortable" lead is too predictable.

We weren't in a situation with a comfortable lead at the time being.

 

Jay's way better when he calls a game with his guts than looking at the odds.

[Warhead36]

Gruden called one bad play the entire game. One. Unfortuantely, that play would have won us the game. Such a shame because his gameplan and playcalling was absolutely terrific the entire game.

 

People bash him for not going to Doc in the 2nd half, but we still scored 14 2nd half points and were moving the ball. Clearly, the plan was good. They shifted more focus to Doc, and we took advantage in other ways.

 

The issue right now is the D and that's mainly because of injuries to Allen and Ion(I know he played but he's clearly not 100%). Hall is completely finished and we have LBs who lack speed and lateral quickness to cover. And our CBs get exposed without a pass rush.

[GoDeep81]

Thing about Gruden is, he's very similar to Kirk, in that he has no situational awareness.. Clock management, play calling on critical downs, etc.. I like that he's loosened up the playbook a few games, but they always seem to come in games where we have little expectation of winning. Not sure he's got the skills to be a HC and play caller in the same day.

[CTskin]

It's Manusky's defense that deserves all the blame in this one. Gruden called a great game and had the team in position to win in almost dominating fashion. Then to end the game there were three consecutive terrible defensive stands and a bad intentional grounding call and many want to blame Gruden for one play call that they didn't agree with. Come on people... 

 

I bet those some knucklheads also want to blame Gruden for the dumb Preston Smith roughing the passer penalty that would have been a punt but resulted in the Saints first TD. Or blame him for the false start on McClain resulting in a punt instead of a FG opportunity. 

 

He has a banged up OL, no Reed or CT, 1 1/2 WRs worth a lick, yet he put up 31 points on a top 5 rated D... This game, just like the Vikings game, is on everyone other than Gruden and the offense. (For those who don't realize, he's the OC and entrusts the D and special teams with those respective coaches).

 

Not only was this a heartbreaking loss, but it essentially knocked us out of playoff contention. I know people feel the need to point the finger somewhere, which is normal, but think before you point.

[D'Pablo]

Why, exactly, does Gruden get a pass for the defense?  Last I checked, he's the HEAD COACH, not just the offensive coordinator.  He also gets a ton of say in personnel.  If he's incapable of quality control on the defensive side of things, perhaps he should go back to being a coordinator.

[srtman04]

4 hours ago, DM72 said:

 

Under Gruden and this management, you can forget about ever becoming a beast. 8-8 or 9-7 is the ceiling and maybe squeezing into the playoffs every so often is as far as this team is going to go.

 

I believe your opinion is bull****.   That is all.  

Our defense lost us the Saints game.  ****ing Manusky called a ****ing prevent defense during the last few minutes of the game.   Why the **** did he not stick to the same defensive package all game?  Once again, it's proven that PREVENT defense PREVENTS you from winning the game!!!!!!!!!!!

[DM72]

6 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

I believe your opinion is bull****.   That is all.  

Our defense lost us the Saints game.  ****ing Manusky called a ****ing prevent defense during the last few minutes of the game.   Why the **** did he not stick to the same defensive package all game?  Once again, it's proven that PREVENT defense PREVENTS you from winning the game!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And that horrible play on 3rd and 1. We make that and the defense doesn't get a chance to screw up. 

 

I said this yesterday. You don't continue to have these monumental end of the half collapses and the head coach not take the heat for it. 

[Tsailand]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Gruden called one bad play the entire game.

 

He called too many run plays.  Not enough play action passes.

 

His run game is so unimaginative, too.  Bunch everyone up inside the hash marks and pound it straight ahead.  I want to see them run out of four-wide.  And that play the Saints ran on the two point conversion.

[OVCChairman]

7 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

The man calls 65 plays on offense. The other 64 are forgotten. Sell because he doesn't have 100 percent play call rate. Forget that he is playing with a mash unit. Forget that they have the hardest schedule in the NFL. Forget that he gets the backups ready to play mere hours before the game. Yes. We need to judge him on 1 play alone where even then the player screwed up the play not the coach. Forget the team still fields a top ten offensive unit with a mix of backups, ex-Quarterbacks, and a still learning second year player. Yes. Sell.

It was more than 1 play... the play that Cousins ran and Thompson got hurt... 3rd and 4, we've been effective in the run game.. we go EMPTY SET with Thompson split wide.  New Orleans knows were throwing (because there's no RB int he backfield) and we get blown up... add to that, we have no RB to help with Pass pro, or as an outlet if protection breaks down.  The challenge was an act of desperation, there was no reason for that challenge to be made.  Want to make the argument that the D needed a break?  call a timeout.  This isn't the first time either.  Gruden is not the only reason we lost, but his playcalling has been so inconsistent, especially at the end of the halves, and when HE had the chance to win the game, they didnt.  The defense blew it, we shouldn't have been in that position..... I agree with that, but he had the chance to win the game, and he didnt. 

 

At time Gruden shows brilliant playcalling, other times you'd wonder if he wasn't a high school coach. 

 

 

All that said, I'm not ready to sell him yet... Yesterday afternoon I would have traded him for a ham sammich, but I've leveled off.  He just has to get better at some of these things. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 The challenge was an act of desperation, there was no reason for that challenge to be made.  Want to make the argument that the D needed a break?  call a timeout. 

I don't disagree that it seemed out of desperation or some bumbling idiot upstairs told him to do it.  But realistically, you are going to get a longer rest for your D with a challenge than you are a timeout and the only thing you really lose is the same timeout, considering it was the very end of the game.

[NoCalMike]

Is Jay Gruden the new Norv Turner? The man knows how to design an offense, but is he up to the task of head coaching duties?

 

At first glance, he definitely looks the part, however it seems like there is a pattern developing where he just comes up lame in pivotal situations, in crunch time, when the game is on the line. 

 

The head coach really should be the rock in those instances. Other than the QB, the head coach is there to make sure everything is running smooth in the tense moments.  When something like the bogus intentional grounding flag was thrown, it could put Cousins and/or the offense in a bit of mental funk.  The head coach should be there calming the QB down, having a play ready to go to remedy the situation, letting the QB know exactly what will now happen as far as the clock, and what to look out for. 

 

Unfortunately at this point it doesn't matter because this franchise isn't going to get Gruden the O-coordinator without him being the head coach.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Jay just said that the call to challenge did come from upstairs.  Why the press didn't ask who that was is beyond me.