Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[Paul Cumberland]

37 minutes ago, DM72 said:

No fan of Gruden, but he probably gets one more year. I wouldn’t give him 2 or 3. 

 

Not that the contract extension he signed this year would preclude Snyder from making a change, but he is signed through 2020.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000790230/article/redskins-jay-gruden-signs-2year-contract-extension

 

From the article: Gruden had two years left on the five-year contract he signed when he was hired in January 2014. The extension will take him through the 2020 season.

 

39 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

OK then, how would you want it to go?  Kirk walks thanks to the incompetence of Danny and Bruce, so the next step is to fire Jay?  Who would want to coach here after that?

 

Exactly.  We're not exactly a football mecca and have had trouble bringing in anyone worthwhile in the past.  Zorn perhaps?  I jest, but it does show how our organization is viewed from the outside.  Same goes for our GM search.  Articles talked about a wide net being cast prior to the Doug announcement.  Too many qualified candidates simply turned us down.

[DM72]

1 minute ago, Paul Cumberland said:

 

Not that the contract extension he signed this year would preclude Snyder from making a change, but he is signed through 2020.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000790230/article/redskins-jay-gruden-signs-2year-contract-extension

 

From the article: Gruden had two years left on the five-year contract he signed when he was hired in January 2014. The extension will take him through the 2020 season.

 

 

Exactly.  We're not exactly a football mecca and have had trouble bringing in anyone worthwhile in the past.  Zorn perhaps?  I jest, but it does show how our organization is viewed from the outside.  Same goes for our GM search.  Articles talked about a wide net being cast prior to the Doug announcement.  Too many qualified candidates simply turned us down.

 

They brought in Shanahan. To be honest, I don’t think that’s true that the Redskins can’t bring in anybody. Is there any proof of that? 

 

I said this before, I believe Jim Harbaugh will be our next HC.

[Tsailand]

7 minutes ago, DM72 said:

I said this before, I believe Jim Harbaugh will be our next HC.

 

How dysfunctional is it that we're already talking about the next coach when the team is coming off back-to-back winning seasons and has a decent chance of a third winning season and even a playoff run?

 

Thanks Snyder.

[DM72]

5 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

How dysfunctional is it that we're already talking about the next coach when the team is coming off back-to-back winning seasons and has a decent chance of a third winning season and even a playoff run?

 

Thanks Snyder.

 

We’ve been mediocre under Gruden. He is a below 500 HC.

[SkinsFTW]

No way Harbaugh takes a coaching job with the Redskins after dealing with similar idiocy in SanFran. He'd have to be the dumbest coach ever.

 

[CaptainChaos47]

I get the Bruce being bigger than Jay to a certain extent, but I live in Pittsburgh and the man never overshadowed Tomlin for what its worth.  Everyone knew he was in total control of the offense, but he never came out thudding his chest about it.  I don't think he'd take it simply because he would want to be a HC somewhere else.  Arians is known for telling it like it is not being a flashy guy.

[SkinsFTW]

6 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

We’ve been mediocre under Gruden. He is a below 500 HC.

Who hasn't been?.  

[Paul Cumberland]

3 minutes ago, DM72 said:

We’ve been mediocre. 

 

Which is still better than being abysmal, imo.  Need to get off the bottom to being mediocre before you rise to the top..

 

10 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

How dysfunctional is it that we're already talking about the next coach when the team is coming off back-to-back winning seasons and has a decent chance of a third winning season and even a playoff run?

 

Yup...  I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad...  Imo, we need to do something this organization hasn't done in what feels like eons and that's have some continuity in at least one area - like coaching..

[CaptainChaos47]

9 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

We’ve been mediocre under Gruden. He is a below 500 HC.

 I cant argue the record because it is what it is, but we are having a better 3 year run than we've had at any point in the last decade.  The roster is definitely better and the job he's done with all the injuries this year I believe speaks for itself.  No denying that.

[DM72]

7 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

No way Harbaugh takes a coaching job with the Redskins after dealing with similar idiocy in SanFran. He'd have to be the dumbest coach ever.

 

 

I suspect after the Wolverines once again fails to reach the playoffs and the Redskins go anywhere between 7-9 or 9-7, the rumors will start flying.

3 minutes ago, Paul Cumberland said:

 

Which is still better than being abysmal, imo.  Need to get off the bottom to being mediocre before you rise to the top..

 

I hope we’re not getting to the point where we’re just happy to not be abysmal.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

They brought in Shanahan. To be honest, I don’t think that’s true that the Redskins can’t bring in anybody. Is there any proof of that? 

 

 

I don't think it's true that we can't bring in anybody.  There are only 32 jobs available and someone will take it.  I mean, Hue Jackson accepted the coaching position for the Cleveland Browns.  With that said, we aren't going to be an attractive option among top head coaching candidates for a laundry list of reasons.  It's not like we'll get our pick of the litter.  So yes - we can bring someone in to coach here, but the best candidates would probably choose elsewhere.

 

For that very reason alone, it boggles my mind that some of you folks believe this team would be better off without Jay and the staff he's put together.  There are numerous reasons why top tier coaching candidates would rather be hired elsewhere.  There is a front office dynamic nobody understands and/or most likely believes in, an owner that is known for meddling, and a really poor track record success on the field and off it.  Jay has built a decent staff that gets guys off the street ready to play within days and competes every week. 

 

What's interesting to me is how much some of this fan base discounts how bad our injuries have been this season.  Most normal fan bases with half the injuries we have would be utilizing the injuries as an excuse.  Only in DC do we gloss over them completely and demand more from the head coach and quarterback because "next man up". 

[Gregpeck99]

The road map is there ... just follow LA and Philly.

[DM72]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I don't think it's true that we can't bring in anybody.  There are only 32 jobs available and someone will take it.  I mean, Hue Jackson accepted the coaching position for the Cleveland Browns.  With that said, we aren't going to be an attractive option among top head coaching candidates for a laundry list of reasons.  It's not like we'll get our pick of the litter.  So yes - we can bring someone in to coach here, but the best candidates would probably choose elsewhere.

 

For that very reason alone, it boggles my mind that some of you folks believe this team would be better off without Jay and the staff he's put together.  There are numerous reasons why top tier coaching candidates would rather be hired elsewhere.  There is a front office dynamic nobody understands and/or most likely believes in, an owner that is known for meddling, and a really poor track record success on the field and off it.  Jay has built a decent staff that gets guys off the street ready to play within days and competes every week. 

 

What's interesting to me is how much some of this fan base discounts how bad our injuries have been this season.  Most normal fan bases with half the injuries we have would be utilizing the injuries as an excuse.  Only in DC do we gloss over them completely and demand more from the head coach and quarterback because "next man up". 

 

But think about. The best candidates are usually not available. Bad teams are always looking for a coach. What makes the Redskins job any less attractive than any other bad organization? The Redskins do pay their coaches. I don’t think we’ll have any problem landing whoever we want.

5 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

The road map is there ... just follow LA and Philly.

 

And both hired new coaches.

[Paul Cumberland]

4 minutes ago, DM72 said:

I hope we’re not getting to the point where we’re just happy to not be abysmal.

 

Nope.. not at all.. but, IMO, getting rid of Gruden (taking away the continuity) could put us right back to abysmal where it will take time to get back to where we are now.  A new coach will have different philosophies which will probably require different types of players as well.  I believe we need stay the course since as they say, continuity breeds success.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, DM72 said:

 

What makes the Redskins job any less attractive than any other bad organization?

Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen and the laundry list of negatives associated with them.  Mike Shanahan is still telling Dan stories on national media outlets to this day.  The Shanahan era wasn't that long ago.  They finally got a small amount of respect by bringing in Scot McCloughan, said he had full control and really didn't, and then fired him in an ugly fashion.  All that stuff is recent and reason enough to not get the warm and fuzzies about joining this franchise.

[Paul Cumberland]

11 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

The road map is there ... just follow LA and Philly.

 

..or Cleveland which switches up coaches almost every year looking for that Lightening in a Bottle...

[OVCChairman]

4 minutes ago, Paul Cumberland said:

 

Nope.. not at all.. but, IMO, getting rid of Gruden (taking away the continuity) could put us right back to abysmal where it will take time to get back to where we are now.  A new coach will have different philosophies which will probably require different types of players as well.  I believe we need stay the course since as they say, continuity breeds success.

This is big... but I find myself with the inner-turmoil of whether or not Gruden will ever be enough to take us where we want to go.  Can Gruden ever win a Super Bowl?  This season I had more confidence in the direction that the team is looking to be going (obviously depending on the re-signing of key pieces).  You have to walk before you can run... and we're in position to end the season with 3 straight seasons of 8 wins or more... my fear is that Gruden as an HC will always be at or around .500.  He's a really good offensive mind.  Some plays and schemes have proven to be very effective, but his playcalling at times is HS level, and the problems seem to show up at the worst possible times.  I know these 'issues' are not as frequent as it may seem, but they seem like they happen far more often than they should. 

 

All that said leads me to to re-ask the question, do you think Gruden has what it takes to get us to a SB... If the answer is yes, than the consistency is welcomed, he'll continue to progress, and we'll talk again in 3 years.  If the answer is anything other than yes, do you want to hold on for consistency sake with little confidence that the promised land is attainable? 

[DM72]

9 minutes ago, Paul Cumberland said:

 

..or Cleveland which switches up coaches almost every year looking for that Lightening in a Bottle...

 

Or Cincinnati who stays with Marvin Lewis because.....

[Cliffmark1]

when we had gmsm I wanted to get a new hc picked by sm.  right now I think gruden can learn. 

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

Or Cincinnati who stays with Marvin Lewis because.....

He is the exception but a perplexing one... 

[Paul Cumberland]

2 minutes ago, DM72 said:

Or Cincinnati who stays Marvin Lewis because.....

 

To be fair, Gruden hasn't coached the Redskins long enough to be compared to Marvin Lewis..  Marv reminds me of a Norv.  Great coordinator, not such a great HC.

 

4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

All that said leads me to to re-ask the question, do you think Gruden has what it takes to get us to a SB... If the answer is yes, than the consistency is welcomed, he'll continue to progress, and we'll talk again in 3 years.  If the answer is anything other than yes, do you want to hold on for consistency sake with little confidence that the promised land is attainable? 

 

I believe in Jay's system.  It's the players that need to execute it.  A few more pieces to the puzzle and I believe we'll be consistently going to the playoffs and as we all should know, anything can happen then...  My main concern, which could hold us back, is with the FO in finding those pieces..  And then my fear will be Snyder blaming the coaching staff instead of his FO..

[DM72]

I believe next year will be Gruden’s 5th year. If there’s no noticeable upgrade in the production on the field, and I mean wins and loses, I can’t see under any circumstances how a 6th year is warranted.

[Wildbunny]

40 minutes ago, CaptainChaos47 said:

I get the Bruce being bigger than Jay to a certain extent, but I live in Pittsburgh and the man never overshadowed Tomlin for what its worth.  Everyone knew he was in total control of the offense, but he never came out thudding his chest about it.  I don't think he'd take it simply because he would want to be a HC somewhere else.  Arians is known for telling it like it is not being a flashy guy.

It took me a few minutes you were talking about Bruce Arians and not Bruce Allen lol.

 

30 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

The road map is there ... just follow LA and Philly.

Yeah, great plan.

Last year most around here wanted us to go the NY Giants way by dumping tons of money on the DL with a young HC like McAdoo. See where they are now.

Follow LA?

Last time we met  Jay got McVay's number. And Wade Philips as well...

Philly was rocking bottom last year after a good start. They're looking complete right now, but I'll still wait for them to show they can repeat and not being one and done like the Giants. The Cowboys last year were killing it, but aren't exactly great this year.

 

We're being consistent, which is way better that going with the roller coaster some of those teams are going. This team is vastly underrated this year. As is Jay since he camed here.

[CaptainChaos47]

4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

It took me a few minutes you were talking about Bruce Arians and not Bruce Allen lol.

 

Yeah, great plan.

Last year most around here wanted us to go the NY Giants way by dumping tons of money on the DL with a young HC like McAdoo. See where they are now.

Follow LA?

Last time we met  Jay got McVay's number. And Wade Philips as well...

Philly was rocking bottom last year after a good start. They're looking complete right now, but I'll still wait for them to show they can repeat and not being one and done like the Giants. The Cowboys last year were killing it, but aren't exactly great this year.

 

We're being consistent, which is way better that going with the roller coaster some of those teams are going. This team is vastly underrated this year. As is Jay since he camed here.

 

I thought that after I posted lol.. sorry for the confusion.

 

I agree with the underrated comment.  I hope we finish 10-6 this year .. realistically I think we pull 8-8 maybe 9-7.  That being said if we add a few pieces and have some luck with injuries I think we are sitting on top of the division this time next year and no one other than the fans and people around Redskins Park will see it coming. 

[mike42]

Considering the awful off-season, tough schedule, and injuries, Gruden has done a good job. Gruden is turning out to be the best coach we've had in the last 25 years. He's figuring out something that former super bowl winning coaches couldn't figure out here.

 

At least we hover around.500. We'll probably finish 7-9 this year and I'll be happy with that. We seem to be a few players away from getting something consistent. I've never seen us so close before.