Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 hour ago, SkinssRvA said:

Could’ve had mcvay, that’s the real bummer of it all. 

Well, to be fair, it’s the redskins. Could any of us see that going anything else than awful? we just can’t do good with any coach. Doesn’t matter who it is, the coach will always fail. Because it’s the redskins. 

[Cooooley47]

I do agree that the Skins are coming up short in must win games. However, for the sake of continuity and some consistency, I think given the tough schedule and injuries the Redskins HAVE to give Gruden at least one more year. They cant keep starting over every 2-3 years.

[ksun247]

On 11/29/2017 at 2:39 PM, Alexa said:

If I owned the Redskins I probably would have fired Gruden after the Saints game. I would have fired him before he got to the locker room and he would've had to find his own way back to DC...  LOL. 

 

 

Put a bucket of ice cream on his office desk with a pink slip. LOL!

[Morrison J]

90% of people on here were happy to see McVay go last summer ffs. Now everyone acting like it was the obvious move to make him HC and dump Gruden. 

 

I'm still rolling with Jay. Players love him and I rate him as a play caller. This is actually the first time in years I'm happy with the coaching on both sides of the ball.

 

We just don't have the talent on offense in the skill positions and we've been hit with an outrageous amount of injuries. 

 

If Gruden gets the bullet it'd be a complete joke.

[skinfan2k]

The people that say dont blame injuires have no clue.  It would have been nice if these players all went out early and their backups played the rest of the year. We don't have that.  We are playing guys who have no chance playing on NFL rosters and guys who have had 0 practice with the team.  

 

The run game is non existant because the line combinations.  It takes a while for a line to gel.  We cant even stay healthy for a half on the line.  Our 2 best defensive line man are non-existant now.  Allen is gone and Ionanndis has a club.  We really need to address the D-line next year.

 

On offense, we are asking a 2nd year WR to become a #1.  I dont expect much from him this year.  Ryan Grant isn't a 2 WR. He's awesome but hes a 4th WR.  Crowder just got hot otherwise he has been injured all year.  

[Capt'n Obvious]

I like Gruden as an offensive coordinator, I'm not sure he is a good head coach though.  I don't think he will be fired given the huge number of injuries, but even with everyone healthy I don't think this team wins more than nine games anyway. 

 

Jay is not a good game manager, he is awful at clock management, and its been noted how bad he is at making adjustments. I don't think any of these things have gotten better or will get better regardless of player health. His offensive scheme is good, but too many times it looks as though this team is unprepared in a big game. The consistent bone headed mistakes and the dreadful end of half performances come down to coaching for me. Last nights game doesn't help, but I have definitely soured on Jay more this year as I've noticed his game and clock management have not improved. I do think he will get one more year, but I am not sure it matters. He is who he is.

 

[OVCChairman]

20 minutes ago, Capt'n Obvious said:

I like Gruden as an offensive coordinator, I'm not sure he is a good head coach though.  I don't think he will be fired given the huge number of injuries, but even with everyone healthy I don't think this team wins more than nine games anyway. 

 

Jay is not a good game manager, he is awful at clock management, and its been noted how bad he is at making adjustments. I don't think any of these things have gotten better or will get better regardless of player health. His offensive scheme is good, but too many times it looks as though this team is unprepared in a big game. The consistent bone headed mistakes and the dreadful end of half performances come down to coaching for me. Last nights game doesn't help, but I have definitely soured on Jay more this year as I've noticed his game and clock management have not improved. I do think he will get one more year, but I am not sure it matters. He is who he is.

 

Add to that our clear inability to rise up to the occasion.  A lot of people (myself included) have torched Kirk for his 'big game ability.'  I'm starting to direct more of it toward Jay.  Whenever we have one of these type of games under Jay where we control our own destiny, the team is flat.  I know some of that falls on the players, but the coaches need to make sure these guys are prepared, and up for the game.... They also need to see it happening, and do something about it.  After Crowder lost that fumble, he should not have been back on punt return again.   He shouldnt have been back there since the first 2 he lost earlier this season!  I dont care if you have to put Marshall or one of the other rookie RBs we have back there.  DO SOMETHING.. ANYTHING.  Why was Moses, then Nsecke left on an island?  We were running the ball effectively... bring in the heavy package and pound the ball.. setting up play action.  Run screens, slants, quick drops.  We started doing it, and it worked... then we for some reason just went away from it again.  

[PapaLazarou]

The very definition of mediocrity. Cousins or Dalton, it doesn't matter.

[Wildbunny]

4 hours ago, Morrison J said:

90% of people on here were happy to see McVay go last summer ffs. Now everyone acting like it was the obvious move to make him HC and dump Gruden. 

 

I'm still rolling with Jay. Players love him and I rate him as a play caller. This is actually the first time in years I'm happy with the coaching on both sides of the ball.

 

We just don't have the talent on offense in the skill positions and we've been hit with an outrageous amount of injuries. 

 

If Gruden gets the bullet it'd be a complete joke.

Yeah some arguing for keeping McVay really forgets how we tend to hate the guy last year as a play-caller for abandonning the run way too early in many, many, many games.

They seem to also forget the Rams game this year.

 

And well, I have a hard time seeing how firing Gruden would help in any way with this team. You wan't to discard the injuries we had this year? the tough Schedule?

OK, why not. Those are not excuses, just the definition of our season. And if you think we would have done better with another coach. Go dream about that. Some teams haven't survived one or two guys down. We survived so many guys down...

 

Sure you could come here with that beautiful story of Gibbs and the replacements' game against that same Cowboys saying that is a great coach and so on...

I'm pretty sure of two things here:

- Gibbs wasn't that confident going into the game. I'm pretty sure he sweat about it.

- Gibbs was pleased to have not to do it twice.

 

There's not so much things you can do here. Except trying to play through it. Next man up doesn't last long. And we should be happy to have been in the mix until now. With all our injuries we could easily have been bottom dwellers like the Giants, 49ers or Browns... There's a reason guys are on the Streets, guy are not playing, not in playing shape or whatever. If they were that good, they wouldn't be on the street, they would be starting on another roster or be a 2nd stringer elsewhere, not a 3rd or 4th...

So yeah, basically a good coach can take them up once, maybe twice, with luck. But more? No way, at some point players will show their weaknesses, other teams will figure them out and that will show on the field.

So they rose up to the occasion against the Saints. That doesn't mean they'll be able to do it on any given sunday.

 

Finally, I don't really see the point, once again of firing Gruden.

Firing him at the end of the season would put us back into the circus thing we all complain about.

[Capt'n Obvious]

1 minute ago, Wildbunny said:

Firing him at the end of the season would put us back into the circus thing we all complain about.

 

We are already in that circus. It has been ongoing for 20+ years. I don't think Gruden will lose his job, but all you have to do is look to the handling of the Scot Mccloughan departure to see the circus has never left town.

 

Injuries aside, Gruden must improve on his clock management and in game adjustments. He will get one more year I think, but those two areas have been shaky for him since he got here.

[SkinsGuy]

5 hours ago, Morrison J said:

90% of people on here were happy to see McVay go last summer ffs. Now everyone acting like it was the obvious move to make him HC and dump Gruden. 

 

 

Convenient 20/20 hindsight makes people think they are smarter about football decisions than they really are. 

[Dissident2]

I couldn't care less what happens to Gruden at this point. No, he's not the main problem. We all know what the main problem is. Well, most of us. Until that changes, I don't know what we can realistically expect from anyone. People who come here to coach are coming to an environment where they have to game plan against that week's opponent AND against the stupidity of our front office/ownership. It's an absolute joke. 

 

That said, Gruden has NEVER beaten the Cowboys at home and he may have the worst overall record against that team of any coach we've had once you've factored in the amount of games he's played against them. 2-6 at this point, and only one of those was a quality win. 

 

Pathetic. That matters to me. A lot. 

 

You can't beat the Cowboys at home EVER? You get blown out by a struggling Cowboys team just begging to be put down early? You are basically owned by Howdy Doody Jason Garrett? 

 

**** you. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Gruden hasn't helped himself over the past month (Vikings blow out, Saints blown lead, Giants ugly win, and the Cowboy debacle), but I still don't think he's the main problem. 

 

Our culture sucks and that lies with Snyder and Allen. Period. 

 

In the past couple years we've completely alienated a top-10 QB despite drafting him in the late-rounds and chased away the best GM we've had in decades. It's just disgusting to be honest. 

[campbellcooleyconnection]

Gruden is regressing that dumb sideline look is becoming Spurrier Zorn like now.

[skinzplay]

Clock/game management at the end of the first half against Dallas says a lot. It's not a new phenomenon. Just incredible that this nonsense continues with such frequency. He's not a rookie HC anymore, for crying out loud. And for once, could we hike the ball before a coach has a chance to throw a challenge flag?

 

I've said it before, and my refrain has not changed -- Gruden is not HC material. But I also have no confidence in the current responsible party making a decision on who should replace him. He also has no business running an NFL front office. His legacy last name has given him all kinds of undeserving access and advantages.

[skinsfan834]

I think you've got to give both Kirk and Jay another year together, but time really is ticking here. 

 

Kirk, but more so Jay, has shown a troubling, yet consistent pattern of not getting it done when it matters the most. I get that we have been hit hard by injuries this year, but it is the NFL, everyone is injured this time of year. Look at the Cowboys - we just got blown out of the water by a team that is missing its best offensive and defensive player. It wasn't even close.  

 

Just as troubling is it seems that our 'star' players never show up when it matters most. Where was Kerrigan, Norman, Trent (although don't know how easy it is for a lineman to make a game changing play)? This new contract we gave Reed this off-season is starting to look realllllllllll bad. Health is arguably one of the most important skills in the NFL (and yes, it is a skill to stay healthy in the NFL) and we decide to pay a guy who can't play more than 8 games a season the highest paid TE in the league?

 

Regardless, this seems to be an institutional problem. I'm 25 years old and have never seen a Redskins team with a higher ceiling than the Wild Card. That is not OK, and statistically speaking, is almost improbable. I have friends my age who have drifted away from this team, but I can't bring myself to do it. Unfortunately, I think the only way to see real change is for more of my generation to stop following and investing countless dollars and hours into this team. Maybe then Snyder can cut his losses.  

 

I'm fed up, but in the end, what can really be done with this team that hasn't already been attempted? 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, skinsfan834 said:

I think you've got to give both Kirk and Jay another year together, but time really is ticking here. 

 

See, I think you have to de-couple Cousins and Gruden to be honest. 

 

 

[WelshSkinsFan]

I think Gruden just needs a little more help there to be honest.  A lot of times when a HC calls the plays on one side of the ball they delegate a lot of the in game HC responsibility to someone else.  I think it would help Jay a lot to delegate clock management to someone like Callahan who has a ton of HC experience and is not calling in plays from the sideline. 

 

I get the arguments against Jay but as has been mentioned before, the players clearly respect him and play for him and I think that is also true of the staff.  Callahan and Tomsula are both considered elite in their roles and could walk into another gig tomorrow but they are happy to work for Jay, I think that says something about him as a leader and I am not ready to quit on him yet.

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

Yeah some arguing for keeping McVay really forgets how we tend to hate the guy last year as a play-caller for abandonning the run way too early in many, many, many games.

They seem to also forget the Rams game this year.

I was one of the people that thought McVay was primary reason for abandoning the run. I have no shame in admitting that I was wrong about McVay. I'm also sure McVay feels absolutely humiliated and that one day his tears from the top of his division shall drop on us like rain each time our game against him is brought up.

[Dissident2]

12 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

See, I think you have to de-couple Cousins and Gruden to be honest. 

 

 

 

Until we de-couple Allen and Snyder, we should probably just get used to this chant no matter what decisions are made:

 

[GoDeep81]

Gruden/Cousins.. Cousins/Gruden.. Seems like they're in similar boats. If we dump either/both we'll be worse off for sure. If we keep them we'll be a 9 to11 wins team at best and once a "real" playoff game happens one or the other, or both, will fail miserably.. Seems it's a DNA thing?

 

Someone last night in the GDT described Gruden perfectly.. Said something like "He always looks like a dad at the mall, who's lost his kid" 

 

A couple "FU's" some throw clip boards every once in a while and I might have a little more enthusiasm about Gruden.. But don't think he has it in him. Might hurt  one of his "friends" feelings.

[kingdaddy]

I can't get past the 0-4 stat in season openers and how bad the offense looked in the pre-season. Throw in the 2-6 record against Dallas and how the Giants have owned us, the late season collapse last year with two chances to win at home on national tv and I say we need to move on and find someone who can get us to the next level. 

For whatever reason, the Gruden/Cousins marriage has not worked as we have found several ways to lose very winnable and must win games. The Saints loss sums it all up and has pushed me to end the Gruden era here. That being said, I understand that not every coach would want to come in and work under Snyder/Allen so I don't know who would be a good replacement. I do know this, I would scour the league for new blood that comes from one of the winning organizations such as New England, Pittsburgh or Green Bay so we can try and duplicate the cultures those organizations have built. 

The injuries have been brutal this year, and we did get some great talent in the draft to help build for the future but you can't lose the home opener to a division rival, blow the game in New Orleans and lose twice to Philly and Dallas and expect to keep your job. 

 

[browntim16]

I’m gonna go on record and say I am not a fan of Gruden.  I don’t hate him, I just think that he’s not right as HC.  Watching the game last night, I think I can finally articulate my biggest issue with him: the “WHAT THE **** JUST HAPPENED?!?!?” Effect.....

 

What I mean is, it seems like the recurring theme with Gruden’s Redskins is losses that both he and the fan base are completely blown away by.  Watch him in post game pressers.  He talks like someone giving an account of a traumatic event.  I get it, we lost, but is it too much to ask that our coach not look so defeated.  Too often his “I don’t know what happened” seems to equal “we weren’t prepared”.  Injuries are a guarantee.  Yes, we have far more than our fair share.  But, injuries happen and you get paid millions to deal with them.  No, I am not directly saying that the fumbles and interceptions are his fault.  Players make plays.  But these mental lapses have been his calling card.  I noticed it even in the off-season when my Dad (working training camp) came and told me “they are playing for him, but he is not in control of them”.  At the time I had no clue what he meant but now I do.  Yeah, the guys like him, but not enough to put in the work and concentration to help him save his job.  I don’t know, but I’m done ranting...

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I ultimately think that Jay may be our Marvin Lewis. Hear me out.

 

Marvin is a great coordinator and a perfectly adequate head coach. And for whatever reason, he has the right temperament to survive and even almost sorta thrive in a highly dysfunctional environment.

 

I think Gruden is more than capable of going 85 and 75 and over the next ten years.

 

And for this particular organization, that may be as good as it gets. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

44 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Gruden/Cousins.. Cousins/Gruden.. Seems like they're in similar boats. If we dump either/both we'll be worse off for sure. If we keep them we'll be a 9 to11 wins team at best and once a "real" playoff game happens one or the other, or both, will fail miserably.. Seems it's a DNA thing?

 

Someone last night in the GDT described Gruden perfectly.. Said something like "He always looks like a dad at the mall, who's lost his kid" 

 

A couple "FU's" some throw clip boards every once in a while and I might have a little more enthusiasm about Gruden.. But don't think he has it in him. Might hurt  one of his "friends" feelings.

 

How many coaches in the NFL really do the "Throw the clipboards" thing? Rex Ryan was maybe the last of that breed. And he didn't exactly reinvent football. Tom Coughlin was the last red-faced maniac to win a title, I think. I feel like the models now are the soulless automatons like Bellichick and the cool uncles like Tomlin.