Skinsinparadise Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 30 minutes ago, DM72 said: People love using injuries as a crutch. As if we’re the only team that have injuries. Dallas was a joke leading up to last night and they kicked our teeth down our throats. 22 different O line lineups. EVERY O lineman has missed significant time aside from Moses. And now Moses is likely out, too. 3 guys have started every game on offense. Next week that's likely down to 2 guys. The Cowboys were crying ape over losing their left tackle for ONE game. Yesterday, we saw Dallas' O line at full strength as its been more or less for most of the season. I can even remember when the Redskins O line was at full strength. The top DT gone. The only legit NT gone. Starting MLB gone. The top playmaker on offense -- gone for most of the season. The 2nd biggest playmaker on offense, gone some of the season. Starting running back -- gone. Also the best playmaker at RB this year -- the last man standing gone after the Saints game. And this is all going down against the hardest schedule thus far by a mile in the NFL. This doesn't represent just some typical obstacle that any NFL team faces. I saw thus far this is the 2nd hardest schedule thus far for the team's 85 year history. I'd put money that they are setting a franchise record for lost time as to injuries. The Giants and some other teams which have many injuries have just melted down. The Redskins have been in every game except yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 27 minutes ago, NickyJ said: Unfortunately, we aren't likely to get more than one direct confrontation each year. If the complete debacles that the Saints, Cowboys, and other hideous games that we played are able to be erased for you by beating McVay one time, I envy you. I've waffled back and forth on Jay before, but in each game, Jay makes at least 3 inexplicable botches, capitalized by 13 men on the field, all lined up and not a single one of them aware that they shouldn't be on the field. I put that on coaching, and no amount of injuries can excuse it. If he needs help on the sideline managing all that, fine. He should have gotten himself that help by the time his fourth season as a head coach began. 13 men on the field is more on players that on the HC, you can easily believe that coaches are not getting heard from where they stand. You can bash Gruden all you want, but you could also bash Cousins, or whoever was on the field and didn't pay attention. And we've got some serious leaders out there. Back to the topic, I didn't like the outcome of the Saints game. I didn't like the Cowboys as well, both games. I didn't like the Vikings game also. I just hated watching those games. But still, when comparing both Jay and McVay, Jay won the duel. Simple as that. Want to know the difference between those games? Redskins Injury report for Week 2 against the Rams: Questionable: Josh Doctson. IR: Hall / Marshall / Murphy / Taylor. Adds in Bates / Bowen and Thompson. That's it! That's our injury report on Week 2 guys! Want to know our IR against the Saints? Questionable: Zach Brown / Dunbar / Ryan Grant / Hall / Ioannidis / Lanier / Lauvao / Nicholson / NSekhe / Perine / Scherff / Williams Out: Jordan Reed IR: Jonathan Allen / Clemmings / Compton / Foster / Hopkins / Arthur Jones / Kelley / Long / McClure / Pryor / and all those guys in week 2 but DHall. In fact actually, our only ILB that is not injured is... Zach Vigil And when did our rash of injuries started? On week 3 after we played the Rams in fact. And those guys used to play dirty with Jeff Fisher at the helm... 15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: The top DT gone. The only legit NT gone. Starting MLB gone. The top playmaker on offense -- gone for most of the season. The 2nd biggest playmaker on offense, gone some of the season. Starting running back -- gone. Also the best playmaker at RB this year -- the last man standing gone after the Saints game. That would be an interesting exercise to do: Remove all these guys on every NFL Teams, and try to guess their record right now. Then adds to it that the OL is playing injured for their 5 guys. Adds in that they only have the 5th stringer ILB as non injured. I mean, everyone knows it's a Line game, that it's decided between the trenches. Our whole starting OL is injured and/or IR. Our whole starting DL is injured and/or IR. I doubt they are many teams in the NFL that could survive that. But that would be worth its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I was just thinking, at least our head coach isn't macadoo. Buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Wildbunny said: IG adjustments, clock management... Sure he could improve here. But that's the kind of stuff you might get through a long time of HC experience. This said, I don't see how we've been a circus since he was here. There's no way he's responsible for the McCloughlan firing, not his job. And the team have been far from a circus during the season which is where it matters to him. Humiliated? Gruden grew the guy and he got an HC gig. How was he humiliated in any way? Why is McVay angry at anyone? He got a job with the Redskins at Age 12. He was made offensive coordinator at Age 16. And now he's a coaching a really good young team....and he can't even drink yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: . For those who trust Scot's abilities -- without regurgitating the material. There is some evidence that he doesn't think much of Doug as a personnel guy. Conversely, we know he thinks Jay has a good eye for judging players in the draft. Removing Jay -- likely means a bigger Doug stamp on things. Edited 3 hours ago by Skinsinparadise I don’t want Jay fired, as I have stated. but his eye for talent thinks Grant is a starting WR, Kelley is a starting RB, and Compton is a starting LB. None of those players should be starters. If if that’s his eye for talent, he needs new eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Why is McVay angry at anyone? He got a job with the Redskins at Age 12. He was made offensive coordinator at Age 16. And now he's a coaching a really good young team....and he can't even drink yet. Ha ha.... wait. Is that actually true? Help me, Google! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campbellcooleyconnection Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 We haven't had a RB defenses have too worry about since....Almo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooseneck Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Who else would take the job? Jim Zorn? My favorite would be: Jerry Glanville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Lineup Plays Passing Plays Rushing Plays Avg Gain Avg Gain, Pass Avg Gain, Rush First Downs Touchdowns Fumbles Lost Interceptions Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 50 41 9 6.54 5.71 10.33 16 3 2 1 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 28 15 13 7.79 10.80 4.31 11 2 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 20 13 7 4.20 4.31 4.00 4 0 0 1 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom 17 16 1 5.65 5.63 6.00 4 1 1 1 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 17 14 3 7.35 9.07 -0.67 6 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 16 6 10 2.75 4.17 1.90 3 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 15 13 2 3.40 3.46 3.00 4 0 1 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 14 10 4 4.93 4.40 6.25 4 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 14 10 4 3.14 2.60 4.50 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom 14 10 4 5.71 7.30 1.75 5 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 13 3 10 6.69 18.33 3.20 4 0 1 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 12 8 4 6.42 6.88 5.50 7 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 12 10 2 7.25 7.90 4.00 6 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 11 10 1 4.91 4.30 11.00 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 10 9 1 5.80 6.78 -3.00 3 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 10 5 5 3.20 3.40 3.00 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 10 5 5 3.60 3.40 3.80 4 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 10 4 6 3.90 2.50 4.83 2 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 9 7 2 11.78 9.86 18.50 4 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 9 9 0 1.11 1.11 0.00 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 9 4 5 5.33 7.00 4.00 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 8 7 1 8.50 9.43 2.00 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 8 4 4 8.50 9.50 7.50 2 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 8 4 4 6.13 13.50 -1.25 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 8 3 5 10.13 26.33 0.40 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 8 5 3 7.63 10.20 3.33 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 7 7 0 -3.43 -3.43 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 7 5 2 4.86 6.00 2.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 7 4 3 1.29 4.00 -2.33 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 7 6 1 0.00 -2.33 14.00 1 0 0 1 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 7 5 2 7.57 9.40 3.00 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 7 5 2 7.57 9.60 2.50 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 6 6 0 2.33 2.33 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 6 5 1 4.67 7.60 -10.00 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 6 2 4 10.67 16.00 8.00 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 6 3 3 1.17 3.00 -0.67 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 6 2 4 2.50 0.00 3.75 3 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 6 3 3 5.00 7.67 2.33 2 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 6 2 4 2.67 1.00 3.50 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 6 3 3 8.83 8.67 9.00 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 6 3 3 10.17 18.33 2.00 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 5 4 1 9.60 11.50 2.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 5 3 2 8.80 9.67 7.50 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 5 3 2 9.00 10.33 7.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 5 1 4 -2.00 -9.00 -0.25 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 5 2 3 3.60 3.50 3.67 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 5 2 3 -1.60 -5.50 1.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 5 1 4 3.20 0.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Colt McCoy, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Brandon Scherff 4 0 4 3.00 0.00 3.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 4 2 2 10.50 18.00 3.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 4 4 0 2.25 2.25 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 4 3 1 0.00 -5.00 15.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 4 3 1 -2.50 -4.00 2.00 0 0 1 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 4 1 3 4.00 7.00 3.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 4 1 3 2.00 6.00 0.67 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 4 0 4 1.00 0.00 1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 4 0 4 3.50 0.00 3.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 4 1 3 4.75 15.00 1.33 1 0 1 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom 4 1 3 3.50 0.00 4.67 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 4 0 4 9.75 0.00 9.75 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom 4 2 2 2.75 5.50 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom 4 3 1 2.00 0.33 7.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 4 2 2 8.00 12.50 3.50 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom 3 3 0 9.00 9.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Brian Quick, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 3 3 0 2.67 2.67 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Jeremy Sprinkle, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 3 2 1 11.33 15.50 3.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 3 3 0 14.00 14.00 0.00 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 3 3 0 6.33 6.33 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Mack Brown, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 3 0 3 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 3 2 1 16.00 18.50 11.00 3 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 3 3 0 15.00 15.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 3 3 0 7.67 7.67 0.00 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 3 2 1 1.33 1.50 1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier, Ryan Anderson 3 0 3 0.67 0.00 0.67 2 2 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 3 1 2 9.33 21.00 3.50 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 3 0 3 6.00 0.00 6.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 3 1 2 -10.33 -36.00 2.50 0 0 1 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 3 2 1 3.67 4.50 2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Ryan Anderson 3 1 2 0.33 0.00 0.50 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 2 1 1 5.50 0.00 11.00 0 0 0 1 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom 2 2 0 5.00 5.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 2 1 1 16.00 26.00 6.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 8.50 11.00 6.00 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 2 0 2 2.50 0.00 2.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Maurice Harris, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom, Chase Roullier 2 0 2 1.50 0.00 1.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 2 2 0 11.00 11.00 0.00 2 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 2 1 1 -0.50 1.00 -2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 2 2 0 2.00 2.00 0.00 0 0 0 1 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 2 1 1 3.50 5.00 2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 2 2 0 3.00 3.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Brian Quick, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 2 0 12.00 12.00 0.00 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 2 2 0 9.50 9.50 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Brian Quick, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 2 2 0 8.50 8.50 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 2 1 1 3.50 0.00 7.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 2 0 5.50 5.50 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Mack Brown, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 5.00 11.00 -1.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Mack Brown, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 0 2 8.50 0.00 8.50 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Mack Brown, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 15.50 30.00 1.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Mack Brown, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 -5.00 2.00 -12.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 2 0 2 -1.50 0.00 -1.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 2 0 2 8.50 0.00 8.50 2 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 2 2 0 3.00 3.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 2 0 2 4.50 0.00 4.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 2 2 0 9.00 9.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 -1.00 0.00 -2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 2 0 2 -1.00 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Brian Quick, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 6.00 6.00 6.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 2 1 1 6.50 9.00 4.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 -1.50 -1.00 -2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 2 1 1 5.50 4.00 7.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 0 2 2.50 0.00 2.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Brian Quick, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 0 2 2.50 0.00 2.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom 2 0 2 4.00 0.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 2 1 1 17.00 33.00 1.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom 2 1 1 -0.50 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 1 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 2 1 1 4.50 0.00 9.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 2 0 2 6.00 0.00 6.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Trent Williams, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom 2 2 0 10.50 10.50 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 0.50 -3.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Brandon Scherff 2 0 2 7.00 0.00 7.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Brandon Scherff 2 0 2 12.50 0.00 12.50 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 0 2 3.50 0.00 3.50 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 2.00 0.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 2 1 1 5.00 3.00 7.00 2 2 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 1 1 0 -4.00 -4.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Maurice Harris, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 1 1 0 5.00 5.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 5.00 5.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 2.00 0.00 2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Byron Marshall, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Brandon Scherff 1 0 1 8.00 0.00 8.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Jamison Crowder, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jordan Reed, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 1 1 0 5.00 5.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 6.00 0.00 6.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 1 0 1 2.00 0.00 2.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 1 1 0 7.00 7.00 0.00 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 5.00 0.00 5.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 32.00 32.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 5.00 5.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 -1.00 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 6.00 6.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Jamison Crowder, Brian Quick, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 -2.00 0.00 -2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 4.00 0.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 1 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 1 0 74.00 74.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Maurice Harris, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 -1.00 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Brian Quick, Jeremy Sprinkle, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 11.00 11.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 8.00 0.00 8.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 16.00 0.00 16.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 1 0 1 7.00 0.00 7.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Chris Thompson, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 1 0 1.00 1.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Mack Brown, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 1 0 52.00 52.00 0.00 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Mack Brown, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 1 0 -5.00 -5.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 1 1 0 5.00 5.00 0.00 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 36.00 36.00 0.00 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 1.00 0.00 1.00 1 1 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 10.00 0.00 10.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 5.00 0.00 5.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 1.00 0.00 1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 2.00 0.00 2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 4.00 0.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Brian Quick, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 1 1 0 6.00 6.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 1 0 1 6.00 0.00 6.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 1 1 0 9.00 9.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 4.00 0.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier, Spencer Long 1 1 0 5.00 5.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Arie Kouandjio, Tyler Catalina, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Rob Kelley, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 5.00 0.00 5.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Tyler Catalina, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 4.00 0.00 4.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 2.00 0.00 2.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Maurice Harris, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 14.00 14.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Tyler Catalina, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 -1.00 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 9.00 9.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 1 1 0 7.00 7.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Josh Doctson, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Brandon Scherff, Tony Bergstrom 1 1 0 6.00 6.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 1.00 0.00 1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 3.00 0.00 3.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Jeremy Sprinkle, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 1 0 10.00 10.00 0.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Maurice Harris, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Morgan Moses, Trent Williams, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Chase Roullier 1 0 1 7.00 0.00 7.00 1 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Morgan Moses, T.J. Clemmings, Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, Shawn Lauvao, Spencer Long 1 0 1 -1.00 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 12.00 0.00 12.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Morgan Moses, Ty Nsekhe, Arie Kouandjio, Tony Bergstrom, Brandon Scherff 1 0 1 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson, Jamison Crowder, Niles Paul, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 -1.00 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Ryan Grant, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, T.J. Clemmings, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 0 1 -1.00 0.00 -1.00 0 0 0 0 Kirk Cousins, Samaje Perine, Terrelle Pryor, Niles Paul, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, Shawn Lauvao, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 Special teams plays and plays nullified by penalty are excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Can anyone find me a winning team with 22 different starting lineups for an offensive line within the last 30 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I don’t want Jay fired, as I have stated. but his eye for talent thinks Grant is a starting WR, Kelley is a starting RB, and Compton is a starting LB. None of those players should be starters. If if that’s his eye for talent, he needs new eyes. That was the case at the beginning of the training camp. Kelley was the returning starter RB and Compton was the returning starter at ILB with Foster. Grant went #1 when Garcon and DJax left. Crowder being a slot guy and Doctson was injured. That's not talent perception here. That's just HC keeping guys at the place they were not demoting them straight out of last season and say that Zach Brown or Pryor are 1st as soon as they sign. That's telling everyone: "Ok, that is our line up as of right now, coming from last season. Want to be 1st? Prove it!" In fact it's way more smart to do it this way to keep everyone focus on hard work than say "OK we signed X he's our starter and that's it". If you sign a guy from another team and name it starter asap, you will probably lose the guys your are demoting and create a problem in your locker room. Except if you sign a clear cut Pro Bowler future HoF, and even then, it's better to tell this guy: Go win your place. He'll have no problem doing it. So regarding Kelley, Compton and Grant what were the choices: - Kelley: returning 1st RB. Other notable guys were Mack Brown, Chris Thompson, Keith Marshall and young draftee Samaje Perine. No real problem with starting him at the beginning of the TC. Chris Thompson is a 3rd down back anyway so he was in a galaxy all by himself. So no big deal as there's no world beater in this list right now. Personel isn't great, but serviceable. - Grant: We had Brian and James Quick, Pryor, Doctson, Crowder, Harris with Ryan Grant most notably. Here again, not a big deal saying he's our first at the beginning of the TC as Pryor was a gamble, and nobody really knew where he was at. Crowder is the slot guy, and Doctson returning from injury. - Compton: OK, that is a bit different here with the coming of Zach Brown. We also had Spaight in the mix, but basically, the question mark at the beginning of the TC was "Who do you start next to Zach Brown? Foster or Compton?" Compton was the returning starter and making calls on D last year, while Foster wasn't. It was also well known that Brown wouldn't call plays on D. So he started with Compton as the most logical choice here again. You don't domote guys during the offseason. You don't do it during OTA or mini-camps. You do it during TC. And as you noted none of Compton or Grant were starters on opening days. TC has done his job and guys were put were they belong. Only Kelley returned, but opposition wasn't exactly great at the time being. Which should sounds familiar as Gruden already did this kind of stuff a few years back at the QB position. That was more a HC's job that a scout's job in beginning the TC with those guys as starters. Really, that's not an evaluating problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 5:03 PM, Voice_of_Reason said: I don’t want Jay fired, as I have stated. Your positions on him have been contradictory on a couple fronts in my mind, but this one might take the cake. Why not? Why don’t you want him fired? You’ve repeatedly called him an idiot, a moron, and even have this silly nickname I think you might be the only one who thinks is clever in “Captain Yuk yuk yuk” or whatever. I mean, how do you justify wanting him to keep his job with all that? Comes off like you want to sound reasonable or balanced while being anything but. Sorry, just how it comes across. I can’t see myself ever wanting someone holding any significant position anywhere if I’ve repeatedly and incessantly labeled him in the way you have. Not sure I’d want that person as Head Janitor at my local public school, let alone HC of an NFL team. Very weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 6:03 PM, Voice_of_Reason said: I don’t want Jay fired, as I have stated. but his eye for talent thinks Grant is a starting WR, Kelley is a starting RB, and Compton is a starting LB. None of those players should be starters. If if that’s his eye for talent, he needs new eyes. Grant is our ONLY WR who actually consistently catches passes. Sad but true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, bowhunter said: Grant is our ONLY WR who actually consistently catches passes. Sad but true When he is the only one who knows how to run correct routes and knows how to play every position as a WR, why wouldn't gruden see him as a starter? I would too. who else has shown that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Grant would be the number five WR on most NFL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt'n Obvious Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 1:43 PM, Wildbunny said: IG adjustments, clock management... Sure he could improve here. But that's the kind of stuff you might get through a long time of HC experience. This said, I don't see how we've been a circus since he was here. There's no way he's responsible for the McCloughlan firing, not his job. And the team have been far from a circus during the season which is where it matters to him. It has been four years, how much time does he need to show any improvement? Again, I don't think he will be gone, I would just like to see him improve in this area next year. As far as the circus goes, that was more towards the organization as a whole. The circus will always be here with Dan and Bruce running the show. Gruden does have a stabilizing effect on the team I agree, but the organization/front office is still a clown show, and will continue to be regardless of who is coaching. See the Cousins debacle, GM handling, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 20 hours ago, thesubmittedone said: Your positions on him have been contradictory on a couple fronts in my mind, but this one might take the cake. Why not? Why don’t you want him fired? You’ve repeatedly called him an idiot, a moron, and even have this silly nickname I think you might be the only one who thinks is clever in “Captain Yuk yuk yuk” or whatever. I mean, how do you justify wanting him to keep his job with all that? Comes off like you want to sound reasonable or balanced while being anything but. Sorry, just how it comes across. I can’t see myself ever wanting someone holding any significant position anywhere if I’ve repeatedly and incessantly labeled him in the way you have. Not sure I’d want that person as Head Janitor at my local public school, let alone HC of an NFL team. Very weird. Ok, I'm going to stop with the the Captain Yuk Yuk Yuk thing. It's probably of bad taste regardless, so my bad. Here's why I think he shouldn't be fired: 1. He hasn't lost the locker room. The guys play hard for him, and that's very important. If he had lost the locker room, I think he'd have to go. 2. I have exactly zero faith in the guys picking the guy, and while I think Jay is at the best average, Bruce and Dan could easily hire the next Zorn. I think you know what you are going to get with Jay, and that's around 8-8. And if a few things break his way, he can get a team to 10 wins and maybe a playoff win. If they don't break right, they can end up around 7-9. This year they didn't break his way, and they'll most likely be somewhere around 7-9-ish. In 2015 they kinda broke his way and they were 9-7. 3. Being completely honest, the injuries were really almost impossible to overcome on the OL. I give Jay full credit for getting the team ready to play and win the game in Seattle, when they were just riddled with injuries. Given the circumstances, I think it's hard to justify firing him. There are probably only a handful of coaches who could have overcome the injury situation in a better way than Jay did. 4. I have a feeling we're going to tag Kirk again in the off-season, and have him for 1 more year. It would be really silly to do that and bring in a new HC and offensive system in what is most likely Kirk's last year in DC. (He can't be tagged again, and I'm pretty sure he'll sign elsewhere as an UFA.) So, to maximize the potential of the team next year, switching schemes and everybody having to learn a new system just isn't ideal. 5. I really do think he's a very creative OC. I don't love his play-calling at times, and I think he gets stubborn with theory of what should work vs. what the personnel will allow to work, but he's a good offensive mind. 6. I think with Manusky, he made the best DC hire he's made as a HC. Retaining Haslett wasn't great, but that also could have been more of a Bruce thing. Joe Barry should not have been hired. If you are going to take a risk on somebody with a very bad resume, you better be right. He wasn't. But Manusky is more than competent, and until he lost a good number of players to injury, the unit was playing really well. And they just seem like a "smarter" until, and there's something there to build on for sure. When Jay is retained, because he will be, I would hope that he would consider the following changes which would help him tremendously. (I kinda doubt he will do either, but this is what I would suggest to him) 1. I think Jay the HC might be ok if he was not also the OC and play-caller. I think he took on too much in 2014 when he was hired, in 2015 and 2016 McVay took a lot of pressure off with the offense, and he was better able to coach the whole team. I don't like the structure of Jay, Callahan and Cavanaugh all sharing the OC responsibilities. I think Jay needs to pick an OC, and go with it. Delegate. 2. (This one really won't happen, but it would be nice) If he had somebody else that was in control of the 53 man roster. In my opinion, the HC and coaching staff should have tremendous input in the player selection process, but somebody needs to save a coach from themselves at times and have roster control. That's ostensibly Bruce. But he just defers to Jay. The stories are even when McCloughan was here, Jay/Bruce could overrule him. I'd like to see somebody other than Jay, even if it is Doug Williams, with that authority. My biggest issues with Jay are: 1. The team is a perennial slow starter, and there haven't seemed to be any adjustments in the off-season to fix that. 2. I generally think he coaches conservatively, especially at the ends of halves and games, and that puts the team in bad spots. 3. I have had issues with the play-calling in the following ways, though I've seen an improvement recently: a. we run on 1st down more than anybody in the league, it's predictable, and not successful, b. Our run game doesn't really complement our pass game, c. it seems to take forever to get into a no-huddle type of offense when necessary. 4. He bungles the clock and game management routinely. 5. I don't trust his decisions on who plays. I think he believes honestly that he can coach around physical limitations. This is not unique to Jay, a lot of coaches have that confidence in themselves. I think he might take it to the extreme. I have been SUPER critical of him in this regard, and I acknowledge that. Maybe too much? Not sure. Maybe. Under different circumstances (QB stability, better GM, not having an injury riddled team) I'd probably be more interested in firing Jay. But the circumstances are what they are. So I wouldn't mind seeing one more year of Jay. The assumption being that Kirk is back, they'll probably wise up and improve the skill position players in the off-season, and get healthy. Let's see what he can do with the team without the rash of injuries (which really shouldn't happen again). If it's still the same results, probably time to move on, and you're going to need a new QB anyway, so the timing would be right. With the sheer number of coaches we've had, with no real increase in success, I also think you should try and make it work without up-rooting everything every 4 years. Maybe Jay "gets it" and the team starts winning consistently. Who knows. I have my doubts, but it can get a lot worse, and I'd like to see him try again. I really don't think this post is contradictory to previous posts. I'm very critical of Jay from a personal management and game management perspective. And I think a couple of his decisions have really cost the team chances to win games not only this year but in the last several years. But I have also posted previously giving him tremendous credit for keeping the team together. After the Raider and KC games, I said that I was moving in the direction of being more impressed. So, yeah, it's a mixed bag. I've moved around a bit. I'm not a huge fan, but given the circumstances, I don't think he should be fired. Maybe my rationale only makes sense in my head. Dunno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 12/2/2017 at 6:23 AM, Wildbunny said: That was the case at the beginning of the training camp. Kelley was the returning starter RB and Compton was the returning starter at ILB with Foster. Grant went #1 when Garcon and DJax left. Crowder being a slot guy and Doctson was injured. ...... Here's my point: I really believe that Gruden told Bruce and company that they did not need to spend money on potential starters at WR and RB because they would be fine with Harris, Grant, Doctson, Kelley, etc. Then he put Pryor and Doctson in the same position, with Grant opposite. They also tried to force Crowder to the outside. Somewhere in TC, Gruden had a quote like, "I hate taking Crowder off the field in 2 WRs sets." The problem with this is that Crowder is better suited for a limited, slot role. He's better when he's got a bigger threat to the outside and he can work small spaces on the inside. I will concede this point: If it wasn't Gruden who was making the decisions, then he got stuck with a bad situation and has had to live with it. Whoever made the decision that they could enter Training Camp with this group of skill position players, and not be more aggressive in FA to pick up sure-fire starters to go along with a second year guy who was always injured (Doctson), a guy switching positions (Pryor), and small slot receiver (Crowder), an un-proven RB (Kelley), and a rookie 4th round RB (Perine) was nuts. On paper in July this looked very "eh" unless EVERYBODY came through. If it wasn't Gruden, then behind closed doors I hope he gives Bruce and the FO hell about putting them in this spot. If that's not on Gruden, then he's off the hook. But it certainly seems based on interviews he did back in the summer and through the season that he was on board with losing DJax and Pierre, and he thought that the guys he had would be fine. Maybe that was just coach speak. But we didn't try and do anything to change the situation, so I kinda think that it was more than just coach-speak. But we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 8 hours ago, Capt'n Obvious said: It has been four years, how much time does he need to show any improvement? Again, I don't think he will be gone, I would just like to see him improve in this area next year. I don't know.. Ask Andy Reid, Mike Tomlin (that not so long ago had some troubles locating his own sideline and stepped on the field during a play) or even Pete Carroll. I tend to think that, every coaches has trouble with it. But the best. Which makes me thinks that it's not really a problem in itself in the end. Good teams are able to overcome that, and get the job done. Who will say it was bad clock management if the D hold their ground and stopped the O with 30 secs? Not many. If your team is good, you won't notice them as much than when your team is so-so or average. 8 hours ago, Capt'n Obvious said: As far as the circus goes, that was more towards the organization as a whole. The circus will always be here with Dan and Bruce running the show. Gruden does have a stabilizing effect on the team I agree, but the organization/front office is still a clown show, and will continue to be regardless of who is coaching. See the Cousins debacle, GM handling, etc. I believe that politically speaking, Bruce is in a bad spot right now. Lean is being thin for him, and Jay is our best friend against him. I'd like to have @Skinsinparadise's take on the question, but as Bruce is doing politics mostly, It's not going really well for him regarding to Dan Snyder. Dan is a fan and loves nothing more than winning. And regarding that aspect of the team, Jay has put a decent product on field. Competitive and able to win games. It could be better, obviously, but it's aiming in the right direction. And that alone belongs to him. Bruce on the other hand got rid of Scot one of the best talent evaluator by most. He's still undecided with Kirk Cousins and his undecisiveness will cost Dan losts of money. Dan probably don't mind, but he knows that well, he could have had this done by last year if not for Bruce. If he doesn't sign Kirk, makes stupid draft picks or FA signing, Jay will probably complain in close quarters to Dan. And by all accounts, when it comes to Redskins' resume, Jay's one is way better than Bruce's. Who do you think Dan will fire if he have to pick a guy? At first, I would say it's easier to find a guy that could get you a new stadium than finding a decent NFL coach. 4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Here's my point: I really believe that Gruden told Bruce and company that they did not need to spend money on potential starters at WR and RB because they would be fine with Harris, Grant, Doctson, Kelley, etc. Then he put Pryor and Doctson in the same position, with Grant opposite. They also tried to force Crowder to the outside. Somewhere in TC, Gruden had a quote like, "I hate taking Crowder off the field in 2 WRs sets." The problem with this is that Crowder is better suited for a limited, slot role. He's better when he's got a bigger threat to the outside and he can work small spaces on the inside. I don't see were it is a problem to want to try to put Crowder on the outside. There's nothing wrong with trying it. If the guy can shines, then great. If not, he remains in the slot and that's it. It appeared that Crowder is better on the slot and not much of a match on the outside. Though I'd like to try him with a good threat on the other side like a complete Doctson just to see how opposing D will handle it. At least this experiment proved us that Crowder is not a threat all by himself. Not much of a problem to try this. For all that we know, Jay's is open to admits mistakes and correct them. So I have no problem with him trying stuff, and fail. As long as he doesn't push to hard for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 First, I appreciate you articulating your thoughts in the most succinct way so far. Obviously I have a very much different opinion but wanted to acknowledge the cogent thought process. I mean that sincerely. So here we go. 45 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Ok, I'm going to stop with the the Captain Yuk Yuk Yuk thing. It's probably of bad taste regardless, so my bad. Here's why I think he shouldn't be fired: 1. He hasn't lost the locker room. The guys play hard for him, and that's very important. If he had lost the locker room, I think he'd have to go. Agree here and it's more important than many believe. Quote 2. I have exactly zero faith in the guys picking the guy, and while I think Jay is at the best average, Bruce and Dan could easily hire the next Zorn. I think you know what you are going to get with Jay, and that's around 8-8. And if a few things break his way, he can get a team to 10 wins and maybe a playoff win. If they don't break right, they can end up around 7-9. This year they didn't break his way, and they'll most likely be somewhere around 7-9-ish. In 2015 they kinda broke his way and they were 9-7. I don't agree with the assessment of Jay but I do totally agree with the lack of faith in Bruce/Danny to get someone else. There is also the impact of firing Jay on that decision. The prevailing thought around the league is that Jay is very well respected and considered a very good HC and offensive mind (which you state below). So this is already not considered a choice destination. Firing Jay when many believe him to be a good job - it will make it even more difficult to get a quality person. Quote 3. Being completely honest, the injuries were really almost impossible to overcome on the OL. I give Jay full credit for getting the team ready to play and win the game in Seattle, when they were just riddled with injuries. Given the circumstances, I think it's hard to justify firing him. There are probably only a handful of coaches who could have overcome the injury situation in a better way than Jay did. Agreed. Quote 4. I have a feeling we're going to tag Kirk again in the off-season, and have him for 1 more year. It would be really silly to do that and bring in a new HC and offensive system in what is most likely Kirk's last year in DC. (He can't be tagged again, and I'm pretty sure he'll sign elsewhere as an UFA.) So, to maximize the potential of the team next year, switching schemes and everybody having to learn a new system just isn't ideal. Actually, he can be tagged again. I read that there is no actual limit to the number of times he can be tagged. The problem is that the number gets even higher. But there is no rule that he cannot be tagged again. It's just very cost prohibitive. Here is an excerpt - read the bolded part: 7. Arguably, no player can be tagged more than three times. Last year’s grievance filed by Saints quarterback Drew Brees established that, if a player is tagged once by two different teams, it counts as being tagged twice. Which would have entitled him to a 44-percent raise in 2013, if he had played under the franchise tag last year for the Saints. (He was tagged in 2005 by the Chargers.) Based on the language of the CBA, there’s an argument to be made that no player may ever be tagged more than three times during the course of his career. Of course, tagging a player a fourth time would entail paying out a second 44-percent raise one year after paying out an initial 44-percent raise. Which would make it highly unlikely that any team would ever want to use the tag more than three times. Quote 5. I really do think he's a very creative OC. I don't love his play-calling at times, and I think he gets stubborn with theory of what should work vs. what the personnel will allow to work, but he's a good offensive mind. 6. I think with Manusky, he made the best DC hire he's made as a HC. Retaining Haslett wasn't great, but that also could have been more of a Bruce thing. Joe Barry should not have been hired. If you are going to take a risk on somebody with a very bad resume, you better be right. He wasn't. But Manusky is more than competent, and until he lost a good number of players to injury, the unit was playing really well. And they just seem like a "smarter" until, and there's something there to build on for sure. Agreed and good points. Quote When Jay is retained, because he will be, I would hope that he would consider the following changes which would help him tremendously. (I kinda doubt he will do either, but this is what I would suggest to him) 1. I think Jay the HC might be ok if he was not also the OC and play-caller. I think he took on too much in 2014 when he was hired, in 2015 and 2016 McVay took a lot of pressure off with the offense, and he was better able to coach the whole team. I don't like the structure of Jay, Callahan and Cavanaugh all sharing the OC responsibilities. I think Jay needs to pick an OC, and go with it. Delegate. There is certainly an argument to made here. I do not have the same problem with his play calling that you do. Having said that, they are two jobs for a reason. It could be why the end of the halves don;t go as well. If he is not calling the palys on every down he can inject when he wants to. He is the HC. Quote 2. (This one really won't happen, but it would be nice) If he had somebody else that was in control of the 53 man roster. In my opinion, the HC and coaching staff should have tremendous input in the player selection process, but somebody needs to save a coach from themselves at times and have roster control. That's ostensibly Bruce. But he just defers to Jay. The stories are even when McCloughan was here, Jay/Bruce could overrule him. I'd like to see somebody other than Jay, even if it is Doug Williams, with that authority. I cannot disagree here more. Let's put aside the obvious problem of Bruce has no idea what he is doing. In terms of Jay. I believe some of your criticisms have been misplaced. For example, you have a big problem with the roster put out in March. However, that's not how they started the season, those decisions made then were to make guys earn jobs. And because there were a bunch of new guys. :Let's take WR to start. Yes Grant started out at the Y in March. Yoy had a brand new guy in Pryor and a guy injured who no one was really sure was going to play in Doctson. You just let the 2 most seasoned veterans go (a decision I mostly agree with). So you need someone who knows the routes so the rest of the team can practice. Also, let those other guys see how hard Grant is working and let them win a job. When the season started you had Doctson and Pryor in the X and Y after a few games. Plugging these guys in during a game situation is just not that easy. They need to time develop a rapport. No Pryor is a complete bust. So to keep Crowder in the slot (something I believe you agree with) you have to put Grant on the outside. Compton never made the starting lineup during a regular season game until there were several injuries and even then he played a game or two and was replaced by a practiced squad player. RB - I know people like Mack Brown, but there is a reason he is still not playing. Jay made the best decision he could with the RBs he had. I have no problem with Jay's personal decisions. Is he perfect? No. But no one is. See Bill B signing Haynesworth AFTER the Redskins. Quote My biggest issues with Jay are: 1. The team is a perennial slow starter, and there haven't seemed to be any adjustments in the off-season to fix that. In fairness it's the position coaches responsibility to get the players ready for game day and the players to get themselves ready. So I place this more on the players and position coaches but Jay does own some of this. And it does seem to be a constant. So fair enough. Quote 2. I generally think he coaches conservatively, especially at the ends of halves and games, and that puts the team in bad spots. I don;t disagree that he is sometimes conservative but you ask any fan of any team and they will say the same. It's really easy to be aggressive when sitting on the couch. Coaches by nature are conservative in their approach choosing to only get aggressive when they have to or when they fell they have a distinct advantage. Quote 3. I have had issues with the play-calling in the following ways, though I've seen an improvement recently: a. we run on 1st down more than anybody in the league, it's predictable, and not successful, b. Our run game doesn't really complement our pass game, c. it seems to take forever to get into a no-huddle type of offense when necessary. Not sure I agree here either. He can be a bit predictable but again so are most play callers. The real problem is we have not developed a good enough run game. That is the bigger problem, not that he calls too many runs. And after 3+ years he owns a good part of not having a run game. This year it's hard to tell due to all the injuries - to both the RBs and the Oline. But it has not been good since he has been here. So fair enough. Quote 4. He bungles the clock and game management routinely. Fair enough. However, I do not think he makes as many mistakes as people think he does. Severla of the times he has been accused of screwing up he made the right decision it jsut di not work out. But fiar enough, he has issues here. Quote 5. I don't trust his decisions on who plays. I think he believes honestly that he can coach around physical limitations. This is not unique to Jay, a lot of coaches have that confidence in themselves. I think he might take it to the extreme. I have been SUPER critical of him in this regard, and I acknowledge that. Maybe too much? Not sure. Maybe I totally disagree where. See above. Also, you cannot underestimate the value of having guys that are good locker room guys even if they don;t possess the best skills. The only problem is if you have those guys and pay them top dollar. But they are well worth the minimum to have on the team. I in no way think Jay is perfect. But I think he has done a much better job than some realize. The amount of injuries are staggering - which BTW they were also in 2015 when we were also 4th in most lost man games due to injury - right where we are now (I expect that to get worse when this weeks numbers are added). Just for reference we were middle of the pack last year. We will see what happens with Kirk. I doubt Jay stays if Kirk is gone - regardless of what the FO wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: I don't see were it is a problem to want to try to put Crowder on the outside. There's nothing wrong with trying it. If the guy can shines, then great. If not, he remains in the slot and that's it. It appeared that Crowder is better on the slot and not much of a match on the outside. Though I'd like to try him with a good threat on the other side like a complete Doctson just to see how opposing D will handle it. At least this experiment proved us that Crowder is not a threat all by himself. Not much of a problem to try this. For all that we know, Jay's is open to admits mistakes and correct them. So I have no problem with him trying stuff, and fail. As long as he doesn't push to hard for this. Yeah, I'm ok with giving it a shot, though quite frankly, there aren't a lot of receivers with Crowder's size/speed combination that are succesful outside. So give it a shot, but you've got to have a good backup plan. Gibbs tried this with ARE. It didn't work great then either. The similarity continued that by being asked to do more, for whatever reason, both of them started having punt return issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 44 minutes ago, goskins10 said: We will see what happens with Kirk. I doubt Jay stays if Kirk is gone - regardless of what the FO wants. You think Jay would walk if Kirk walked or was allowed to walk? That seems insane to me. NFL coaches really don't quit unless they're retiring--there's only 32 NFL HC jobs. And that's not even addressing the money that would be left on the table. Grudens not going anywhere unless he's fired or his contract expires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: So, yeah, it's a mixed bag. I've moved around a bit. I'm not a huge fan, but given the circumstances, I don't think he should be fired. Maybe my rationale only makes sense in my head. Dunno... Believe me, I know your rationale. You’ve made it clear, abundantly. It still doesn’t make sense to me on a macro level. Micro? @goskins10 did a good job detailing it so I won’t go there. As for my overall feeling, it’s because you’ll write this up and say things like “mixed bag”, acknowledge the fact that he’s operating within a terrible environment by recognizing the issues with Dan/Bruce (yet omit how that can affect him on a day-to-day basis and even within games), which sounds reasonable on the surface, but then you’ll also make post after post contradicting all that and saying he’s this total idiot, moron, jackass, etc... I don’t know how that fits. How does a guy who is all of those things according to you manage to be an “8-8 coach” while operating within a terrible environment that YOU RECOGNIZE? In fact, one could argue that it’s borderline miraculous he can accomplish that here. But even if you want to throw him into the soup along with this poorly structured FO and omit that, which is a major contradiction in my mind, a guy with those labels attributed to him shouldn’t be managing to be average. Or anything but a complete disaster. He should be failing miserably. Doesn’t make sense. If all of your posts were like this one it’d be different. But they’re not. 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: If that's not on Gruden, then he's off the hook. But it certainly seems based on interviews he did back in the summer and through the season that he was on board with losing DJax and Pierre, and he thought that the guys he had would be fine. Maybe that was just coach speak. But we didn't try and do anything to change the situation, so I kinda think that it was more than just coach-speak. But we will never know. It’s not. He wanted DJax back. They made a push at the end to sign DJax for Jay, too, but failed. He does NOT have final say on personnel and has even stated that he lets the scouts do their jobs since they’re the ones who’ve been scouting said players for their entire careers. If there’s a disagreement, they win. Do you know who was the biggest reason Scot McCloughan was hired and who pushed for Front Office help in the first place? Jay Gruden. I’m glad you brought this up though because it’s something you’ve killed him for many times here. You’re wrong about it. If anything, you should be impressed at how much he’s made best of the situation with the hand he’s been dealt. Jay might be the only functional aspect of the FO who doesn’t overstep his bounds and handles his responsibilities well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Actually, he can be tagged again. I read that there is no actual limit to the number of times he can be tagged. The problem is that the number gets even higher. But there is no rule that he cannot be tagged again. It's just very cost prohibitive. Here is an excerpt - read the bolded part: 7. Arguably, no player can be tagged more than three times. Last year’s grievance filed by Saints quarterback Drew Brees established that, if a player is tagged once by two different teams, it counts as being tagged twice. Which would have entitled him to a 44-percent raise in 2013, if he had played under the franchise tag last year for the Saints. (He was tagged in 2005 by the Chargers.) Based on the language of the CBA, there’s an argument to be made that no player may ever be tagged more than three times during the course of his career. Of course, tagging a player a fourth time would entail paying out a second 44-percent raise one year after paying out an initial 44-percent raise. Which would make it highly unlikely that any team would ever want to use the tag more than three times. I did not know this. Still, it seems unlikely that they would tag Kirk a 4th time. 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I cannot disagree here more. Let's put aside the obvious problem of Bruce has no idea what he is doing. In terms of Jay. I believe some of your criticisms have been misplaced. For example, you have a big problem with the roster put out in March. However, that's not how they started the season, those decisions made then were to make guys earn jobs. And because there were a bunch of new guys. :Let's take WR to start. Yes Grant started out at the Y in March. Yoy had a brand new guy in Pryor and a guy injured who no one was really sure was going to play in Doctson. You just let the 2 most seasoned veterans go (a decision I mostly agree with). So you need someone who knows the routes so the rest of the team can practice. Also, let those other guys see how hard Grant is working and let them win a job. When the season started you had Doctson and Pryor in the X and Y after a few games. Plugging these guys in during a game situation is just not that easy. They need to time develop a rapport. No Pryor is a complete bust. So to keep Crowder in the slot (something I believe you agree with) you have to put Grant on the outside. Compton never made the starting lineup during a regular season game until there were several injuries and even then he played a game or two and was replaced by a practiced squad player. RB - I know people like Mack Brown, but there is a reason he is still not playing. Jay made the best decision he could with the RBs he had. I have no problem with Jay's personal decisions. Is he perfect? No. But no one is. See Bill B signing Haynesworth AFTER the Redskins. Ok, I think we're sortof talking about different aspects of this here. I think the HC (whoever that is for whatever organization) has to have input on FAs and the Draft, and on who makes the final 53. But in a lot of organizations, the final decision making authority sits with the GM. The reason being that a coach is always going to go with guys he trusts because his job is to win now, but the GM can "force" (gently, hopefully) the coach to develop some more talented players. It's the setup most places. All I'm saying is that I think that Jay needs a counter-balance, and Bruce doesn't provide that. Even when SM was here, I don't think that there was a counter-balance. And I agree with your analysis above. I guess I just never thought they should have messed with Crowder, so I would have put JD on one side, TP on the other, and then filled in behind that. Now JD's injury would have forced Grant into action anyway. But for some reason I like that a little better than putting both JD and TP on the same side. My Compton thing was more last year, when he was the day 1 starter. That made little sense then. Though maybe we can pass that off on Barry, I dunno. 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: In fairness it's the position coaches responsibility to get the players ready for game day and the players to get themselves ready. So I place this more on the players and position coaches but Jay does own some of this. And it does seem to be a constant. So fair enough. I think it's more about the plan getting the team prepared, like how they practice, how much they play in pre-season, how they split up reps, that kind of thing that needs to be tweaked, because it's been 4 years and he hasn't won an opener yet. 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I don;t disagree that he is sometimes conservative but you ask any fan of any team and they will say the same. It's really easy to be aggressive when sitting on the couch. Coaches by nature are conservative in their approach choosing to only get aggressive when they have to or when they fell they have a distinct advantage. I don't disagree, but that's kidna the edge that separates the 8-8/9-7 coaches from the great coaches. I'm not saying Jay couldn't develop it, but he hasn't yet. Cooley was saying that last year, McVay went nuts after the Dallas game where they ran on just about every first down, and said he'd never do that again. And Cooley said that he thinks that it has changed his overall approach to game-calling. I think there was some drive in the last Rams game where they killed off a bunch of clock at the end of the game, but they passed the ball 6 or 7 times. That's what I mean by being aggressive, and knowing your team. Everybody knew that when we tied the game up against KC and gave them over a minute, they were going to drive that thing down and win the game. Because the defense hadn't stopped them at all in the second half. Knowing the game, the situation, and taking risks is part of the HC's job. Figuring out when to take the risk is why they get paid the big money. I've never said Jay is like Zorn or Spurrier. He's much better. But in order to take the next step, he's got to get better in this area, in my opinion. 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Not sure I agree here either. He can be a bit predictable but again so are most play callers. The real problem is we have not developed a good enough run game. That is the bigger problem, not that he calls too many runs. And after 3+ years he owns a good part of not having a run game. This year it's hard to tell due to all the injuries - to both the RBs and the Oline. But it has not been good since he has been here. So fair enough. I think both can be a problem. And I also agree that the fact they haven't had a good running game in 4 years is a bit on him. I'm going to admit that I don't really know a whole heck lot about the intricate details of X's and O's, but I will just use what Cooley has been saying for over 2 years: We consistently block run-plays incorrectly. Somebody goes and does something wrong, more than just getting blown up. Though the latter does happen, Cooley goes a bit crazy in his film breakdowns. I think that there are several scheme/personnel related issues 1. Our OL is best suited for an outside zone type of scheme. In order to run this type of scheme, you typically need good blocking TEs and WRs who can hold up on the outside. We have neither. 2. When we try to run inside, that's sub-optimizing what the OL does well. 3 The run scheme is installed by Callahan, while the passing game is installed by Cavanaugh/Gruden. So the two don't exactly compliment each other. They do somewhat, but not entirely. In essence, I think we need to pick what we want to do from a scheme perspective (I would suggest go with the outside zone type scheme only because the OL is already built for it) and then find complimentary players at TE, RB and WR. And then coach it up. It seems as though we try to do a lot of different things, and do none of them well. This comes back to my point that Gruden should appoint an honest to God OC, and make that person accountable for all of this stuff. He needs to stay involved because he's a bit of an offensive genius, but he can't be responsible for installing and coordinating all of it because there just isn't enough time to do that and everything else he needs to do. Very few coaches have been successful in the long-term at being the OC/HC/Play Caller. Reid and McCarthy both have done it well, but they eventually delegated play calling responsibilities as well. Being the HC is a big and hard enough job that it's necessary to delegate to your coordinators. 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Fair enough. However, I do not think he makes as many mistakes as people think he does. Severla of the times he has been accused of screwing up he made the right decision it jsut di not work out. But fiar enough, he has issues here. I agree, there is a pile on effect. I defended him on the 3rd and 1 pass plays in whatever game that was (Eagles? Can't remember) where the world was calling for his head because he threw the ball twice on 3rd and 1 to Crowder and Reed, in some order. This isn't "clock management" but game management. Both were fine plays, and both Reed and Crowder were legitimate targets, and both did silly things. 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I totally disagree where. See above. Also, you cannot underestimate the value of having guys that are good locker room guys even if they don;t possess the best skills. The only problem is if you have those guys and pay them top dollar. But they are well worth the minimum to have on the team. I agree that you need to have guys on the team that are contributors. But it's folly to try and force them into starter roles. A glaring example of this was Reed Doughty. Loved the guy. Great guy to have on the team. Every year they lined him up as a starter, the secondary was at a disadvantage. Great for spot duty, not a starter. You know that you have good talent on the team when guys like Doughty, Grant, Kelley and Compton are backups and not starters. Compton is now a backup, which is perfect. Need to get there with the others. And I'm willing to concede that it's not ALL on Gruden. Bruce (who has no idea what he's doing), SM, Doug Williams, and the rest of the FO has a big hand in this also. Gruden is part of the FO though, so he has some level of culpability. 18 minutes ago, goskins10 said: We will see what happens with Kirk. I doubt Jay stays if Kirk is gone - regardless of what the FO wants. I dunno. Jay was given Griffin and Cousins when he was hired. He might like the idea of scouting and selecting his guy, and grooming him the way he did Dalton. He might like Kirk, but he might honestly like somebody in the draft more. Tough to tell. I wouldn't fault him either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said: You think Jay would walk if Kirk walked or was allowed to walk? That seems insane to me. NFL coaches really don't quit unless they're retiring--there's only 32 NFL HC jobs. And that's not even addressing the money that would be left on the table. Grudens not going anywhere unless he's fired or his contract expires. In normal circumstances I would 100% agree with you. And you could be 100% right. It is pure guess work on my part. There is nothing that Jay has done or said to indicate that's what he would do. But nothing about this normal. And if we are to believe the local beat people - which I agree is a bit sketchy, but some have better track records than others like Kiem - Jay has been a strong advocate for Kirk since the beginning. And he knows bringing in a new QB will make it near impossible for him to be successful for at least 2 years unless we hit the lottery of all lotteries. No one in the NFL would blame him for saying to hell with this after 4 yrs of Bruce and Danny and then them letting his QB go out of a combination ego and stupidity. Also, it looks like Jon is coming back into coaching - albeit at the college level. If that happens he has another good reason for getting out of the bruce and danny **** show. Again, I am 100% speculating and totally get your point. It's just a gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.