Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[Skinsinparadise]

Hearing Jay just now say someone upstairs told him they saw the ball being bobbled and they encouraged him to take that challenge.  Cooley-Sheehan on one of their shows said they understood Bruce is a key guy upstairs as to calling challenges and even kicking in on end game time management.  I commented on this weeks ago.  I'd be really interested to see that probed more.  I like Jay and strongly believe he is the right guy to lead the team -- my only complaint is this type of stuff and if Bruce or someone else have their hand in that stuff, then its something that needs to be looked at.  I recall Gibbs (2nd stint) had Danny Smith be the clock management guy.   I think Jay has plenty on his plate so I am not adverse to him getting help with that stuff -- makes me wonder who is kicking in with the help.  Sheehan/Cooley on one show said Bruce is one of those guys in that mix.

[Tsailand]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley-Sheehan on one of their shows said they understood Bruce is a key guy upstairs as to calling challenges and even kicking in on end game time management

 

Please just kill me now.  I don't care how you do it as long as it's quick.

[NickyJ]

7 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Please just kill me now.  I don't care how you do it as long as it's quick.

Sorry, but the staff doesn't know how to do things quickly. They'll start to kill you, then call a timeout to decide if it was the right way to kill you. Then they'll start killing you again, change their mind half way, and leave you in agonizing pain until you expire in the middle of their discussion.

[TK]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

  Cooley-Sheehan on one of their shows said they understood Bruce is a key guy upstairs as to calling challenges and even kicking in on end game time management. 

Bruce has been doing it either since Jay was hired or maybe as far back as Shanny’s time here. 

[clskinsfan]

34 minutes ago, TK said:

Bruce has been doing it either since Jay was hired or maybe as far back as Shanny’s time here. 

 

Why is a career politician making any football decisions at all. This actually shocks me.

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Why is a career politician making any football decisions at all. This actually shocks me.

 

 Why? The same reason Tampa Bay and Oakland got rid of him. BECAUSE he is sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. Difference is, Snyder is too dumb to see what he really is, and no one else in the FO will say a peep for fear of losing their job.

[sebestian]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 

 Why? The same reason Tampa Bay and Oakland got rid of him. BECAUSE he is sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. Difference is, Snyder is too dumb to see what he really is, and no one else in the FO will say a peep for fear of losing their job.

 

And  this ladies and gentlemen is why we as fans and this team will never win. 

 

It’s hard to win when you have to beat yourself and the opponent. 

 

Incredible. Incredible. SMH. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Why is a career politician making any football decisions at all. This actually shocks me.

Sadly, it does not shock me.  Too many signs point to Bruce wanting to be involved.  

[Warhead36]

Allen has no say whatsoever on what goes on as far as in game playcalling or strategy. I do think there is truth to him assisting Gruden as far as being his eyes in the sky and telling him whether to challenge or not, but I think every team has one of those and they're probably just some low level coaching assistant or intern so Allen being that guy for us doesn't bother me that much, although if he's the one that told Gruden to challenge that one play where the Saints caught a ball late that was OBVIOUSLY a catch, he needs to find someone to replace him in that duty.

[LadySkinsFan]

Gruden straight up called the wrong run play on 3rd and about 2 feet. They should have plowed ahead, either RB off the middle left side or quarterback sneak. The game would have been won. As soon as I saw the handoff I knew we were ****ed. 

[skins island connection]

3 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Gruden straight up called the wrong run play on 3rd and about 2 feet. They should have plowed ahead, either RB off the middle left side or quarterback sneak. The game would have been won. As soon as I saw the handoff I knew we were ****ed. 

 

 It frustrates me too; seeing a short yardage situation, and Gruden calls for a run up the middle, which rarely gets a first down.

 If the o-linemen are a bunch of back-ups, why do you call a play like that? Especially in these situations and at the goal line, its 11 Redskins players on 1 side and 11 defenders on the other side, and he calls a run straight up the middle which ends up losing yards. Its predictable, boring, never works, and costs time and yardage.

 

Simpler thing is when they get in a 3rd or 4th & short, s p r e a d  the defense out with a 4 WR set; force the defense to honor and cover the WRs, which takes bodies away from the d-line. If they leave someone open, its an easy pitch-n-catch for a lot more than a first down.

If they do honor the WRs, it makes getting a first down a helluva lot easier by running up the middle.

 

Its like Gruden thinks he has the best o-line in the game and calls these ridiculous plays...

[skinzplay]

Sell all day long. He should be coaching in the NCAA.

[DM72]

Reading what I’m reading on Bruce Allen is depressing the hell out of me. I’m coming to the realization that this team will never win another championship while Snyder is the owner and he’s fairly young. 

[Warhead36]

29 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 It frustrates me too; seeing a short yardage situation, and Gruden calls for a run up the middle, which rarely gets a first down.

 If the o-linemen are a bunch of back-ups, why do you call a play like that? Especially in these situations and at the goal line, its 11 Redskins players on 1 side and 11 defenders on the other side, and he calls a run straight up the middle which ends up losing yards. Its predictable, boring, never works, and costs time and yardage.

 

Simpler thing is when they get in a 3rd or 4th & short, s p r e a d  the defense out with a 4 WR set; force the defense to honor and cover the WRs, which takes bodies away from the d-line. If they leave someone open, its an easy pitch-n-catch for a lot more than a first down.

If they do honor the WRs, it makes getting a first down a helluva lot easier by running up the middle.

 

Its like Gruden thinks he has the best o-line in the game and calls these ridiculous plays...

I do agree with this, but that's not a Gruden problem, that's a league wide problem. EVERY coach would call the same formation in that spot, jumbo zillion OL. But Bellicheck would call a QB Sneak.

[skins island connection]

8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I do agree with this, but that's not a Gruden problem, that's a league wide problem. EVERY coach would call the same formation in that spot, jumbo zillion OL. But Bellicheck would call a QB Sneak.

 

 We've seen so many times before, in situations where its 1st & goal at the 1 or 2, or even in crucial 3rd down plays, where Gruden is calling for a run play, with a bunch of injured or replacement o-linemen, everyone bunched up together, and expects a 3rd string RB at best to plow through all of those bodies? C'mon. Even trying to sneak Cousins in is not going to get a 1st down on the majority of plays.

 

I got tired of pulling my hair out watching plays like this; if an o-line is not good or has multiple back-ups in there who don't have experience or abilities, the best thing to do is spread out the defense; a 3 or 4 WR set, MAKE the defense respect them, and if they don't, its an easy pitch-n-catch TD. Defenses HAVE to honor an open WR on the field, so its less bodies to deal with, and being the RBs are only getting 2-3 yds per rush, it makes sense.

 

Besides, doing what every other team is doing doesn't do a team like this any good; that's where doing something different, non-predictable, is a benefit. Even in some situations going no huddle to catch the other team off guard, at least forcing them to use a TO.

[OVCChairman]

17 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 We've seen so many times before, in situations where its 1st & goal at the 1 or 2, or even in crucial 3rd down plays, where Gruden is calling for a run play, with a bunch of injured or replacement o-linemen, everyone bunched up together, and expects a 3rd string RB at best to plow through all of those bodies? C'mon. Even trying to sneak Cousins in is not going to get a 1st down on the majority of plays.

 

I got tired of pulling my hair out watching plays like this; if an o-line is not good or has multiple back-ups in there who don't have experience or abilities, the best thing to do is spread out the defense; a 3 or 4 WR set, MAKE the defense respect them, and if they don't, its an easy pitch-n-catch TD. Defenses HAVE to honor an open WR on the field, so its less bodies to deal with, and being the RBs are only getting 2-3 yds per rush, it makes sense.

 

Besides, doing what every other team is doing doesn't do a team like this any good; that's where doing something different, non-predictable, is a benefit. Even in some situations going no huddle to catch the other team off guard, at least forcing them to use a TO.

Or at least put in a Run / Pass option.  There were 3 TEs on the field, as well as Doc.  If the box is blocked, allow for an audible to a PA roll out with a TE / WR leak.  Kirk has sneaky athleticism and if he PA and rolled left, it's Doc man to man with a corner.. The LB on the end might have been able to recover but it still could have opened a window... i guess hindsight is 20/20 but still. 

[KDawg]

Sell as OC/Playcaller AND HC.

 

Buy as HC.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

With regards to the playcall on 3rd and 1... I’m almost entirely convinced it was Kirk’s decision and not Jay’s.

 

Skins had just successfully run the ball to the left on two consecutive plays (thanks to Perine’s extra efforts) and looked as if they were coming out in strong-left formation before Kirk calls timeout. 

 

Kirk has a short discussion with Jay on the sidelines and then points to a play on the play sheet.  Jay says something in agreement and points to what looks like the same play.   They run to the right (new formation) and get stuffed badly. 

 

Did Jay take a page out of McVay’s book last year and ask Kirk “well what do you think we should do?”  OR did Jay say “we’re gonna run this one” and Kirk was just confirming by pointing at the play on the sheet?

 

I can’t say for 100% certainty that I know it was Kirk’s decision, but it sure looked that way to me on Sunday and again just now while re-watching.

[MCnDaHouse]

I'm not ready to abandon the coaching staff at this point. I think with the amount of injuries they deserve some latitude. Is the play calling perfect? No. Have bone headed things been done. Yes. The thing is who would you bring in to replace him? I'd like to see where things go the rest of the season then re-evaluate after it's over. If they don't bring Cousins back then that might be a good time to blow the whole thing up and start over. But what good coach would want to come to DC in that situation?

 

Regarding the 3rd and 1. I'm of the opinion a QB sneak was in order. Rarely have I ever seen one of those not result in at least a half yard gain. If for some reason it didn't work, the clock is still ticking and you can punt or you can line up again and try it again(or another play on 4th). I also like the idea of spreading it out and have less guys in the box. A run from that formation has less LBers to penetrate.

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Sell as OC/Playcaller AND HC.

I dunno...

It doesn't looks like too much on his plate this year than it was in 2014.

 

I'm starting to believe that Jay should follow his guts more than just follow tendancies, looks, odds and whatever that makes it casual.

 

I see the point you're making. But damn, I love him so much when he called a delay for Thompson last year deep in our own territory on 3rd and 25, or when he call that freakin' fake punt right after CT got injured and Kirk shaken up...

At those times, he calls a gutsy play, and players believe in it and do the extra work. When he's going with odds and stuff, he's not as good.

[Tsailand]

 

 

All from the Saints game.

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 hours ago, KDawg said:

Sell as OC/Playcaller AND HC.

 

Buy as HC.

Sell as defacto GM, OC/Playcaller and HC.

 

Personally I would have sold him entirely after last season.  But since he’s not going anywhere for 3 more years, might as well give him the best possible situation to get that extra game to 9-7, and not just be stuck on 8-8 every year. 

 

Here’s the future ladies and gentlemen:

 

2017 post-season assessment after 8-8:  But the INJURIES!  Without the injuries, we would have been great! (That’s not entirely correct, but Bruce and Jay can sell that poppy**** to Dan)

 

Let’s do it all over again! Transition-tag Kirk, a few other signings. 

 

2018 Result: 9-7.  Because there what we are.

 

2018 off-season assessment: we can’t win with Kirk.  Goodbye, let’s draft a guy.  McCoy starts while new guy learns offense.  And  because he’s a Gruden try-hard guy. Defense is now better, so that balences the bad offense. 

 

2019 result: 7-9, based on defense. 

 

2019 off-season assessment: Well, time to throw the new guy in.   

 

2020 result: 7-9.

 

2020 off-season assessment:  essentially a rookie QB, let’s try that again!

 

and after this, the future is murky.  If the new guy is like Wentz, they might be ok.  If he’s like Tannehill, we’re going to be stuck in 8-8 land forever.

 

we hired Marvin Lewis.  A total mediocre coach who will survive for a decade without any real success.

 

you're all welcome, I just gave you the next 4 years of your life back.

[Wildbunny]

I'm fine being medium for some years, remaining in the thick of things and having a shot at PO.

 

That's still way better than being perennial 6-10 at best...

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

I'm fine being medium for some years, remaining in the thick of things and having a shot at PO.

 

That's still way better than being perennial 6-10 at best...

See, I think unless you’re competing for a SB, there’s no point.  

 

If if you’re not building towards that goal, then it’s just a waste of time...

[Wildbunny]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

See, I think unless you’re competing for a SB, there’s no point.  

 

If if you’re not building towards that goal, then it’s just a waste of time...

Well at the beginning of the year there's 32 teams competing for the SB.

As of now, there's still 29 in the mix as the 49ers , the Giants and Browns are out.

3-7 teams are close to be out of the race. (Those are Broncos, Bears, Colts).

 

And every team prepares for this. They all aim at that at the beginning of the season.There's not a player, not a coach, not an owner that plays to not win it.