Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said:

 

Laugh all you want but when players say they'd "run through a wall" for a head coach who's given them little in terms of on-the-field results it begs the question of what is motivating them to feel that way? His locker room jokes? The fact he calls each one of them on their birthdays to wish them well? It's the players' job to be productive and it's the head coach's job to make sure they are, so what's prompting them to vouch for a head coach who's not getting them to where they need to be?

Little on the field results?

Damn, we aren't the Browns or this year's Giants.

We're playing fine, despise tough schedule and injuries. We're not looking completly lost.

 

I can think of three things on the top of my head that would have players "run through a wall" for their coaches without having militery stuff (which also could drive some kind of players' mads).

- First is putting on a competitive team on the field, coming out with a decent gameplan that can makes them succeed. Then, it's up to them to produce and beat the other guy in front of them on the field. Because, at the end of the day, that's what it comes to. Beating the guy in front of you to give your team a chance to win.

- Respect to the players. Having an ear for them, appreciate the hard work they put in training sessions, give them playing time. No pro player likes to train, they actually hate that generally and only wants to play. In that regard, Cousins' case did wonders as the coach stepped up to play Cousins who was better than the starter and gave the team a better chance to win. Guys like Dunbar, Everett, Nicholson, Ioannadis, all came into training camp with not much to hope for. But through hard work, they convinced the coaches, and coaches put them on the field. With success. That goes a real long way in players' mind to trust your coaches and believe in them. Thus creating the atmosphere of "I'm not playing because I'm not doing enough".

- Not throwing them under the bus everytime, acknowledge that they're making mistakes and that coaches have to do a better job. Jay is not really straight on this, mostly due to the RG3 blowing his first year here. But he rarely throws guys under the bus and most of the time comes back to coaches, he included, having to do a better job. He probably kill them here and there, but at least he doesn't go out of the locker room.

 

Then, jokes, calling guys for their birthday, that's just icing on the cake, and puts on a better mood in the locker room. As I said, training is boring, it's repeating again and again the same basics, watching hours of boring videos, learning hundredth of pages of the playbooks... So you might has well do that while having a bit of fun so you can ease the pain a little bit.

[cakmoney61]

With the Redskins outrageously difficult schedule and the just as outrageous number of injuries to key personnel on the offense and defense, Gruden probably deserves a pass this year.  The only area that hasn't been negatively effected by injury is the QB position.

 

This has been an unbelievably unfortunate intersection of events that not even the Patriots could have overcome if we look at the Redskins' season objectively.  With the pain of the last 25 years, we all deserve better than this, because with better luck regarding injuries and a normal schedule, 2017 could have been a big year for the Redskins.

 

What's truly amazing is that the team is still in the hunt for a playoff spot.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

With the Redskins outrageously difficult schedule and the just as outrageous number of injuries to key personnel on the offense and defense, Gruden probably deserves a pass this year.  The only area that hasn't been negatively effected by injury is the QB position.

 

This has been an unbelievably unfortunate intersection of events that not even the Patriots could have overcome if we look at the Redskins' season objectively.  With the pain of the last 25 years, we all deserve better than this, because with better luck regarding injuries and a normal schedule, 2017 could have been a big year for the Redskins.

 

What's truly amazing is that the team is still in the hunt for a playoff spot.  

 

I don't think you can come to a negative evaluation of Gruden based on 2017...barring a very bad collapse. I personally can't come to a positive conclusion yet either, but I would almost think that the first half of this season helps him more than hurts him. 

[Est.1974]

I really think it's true that the futures of Gruden and Cousins are completely linked. I feel they are both equally as difficult to judge. 

 

Its almost enigma like in both cases for me.

[thamajinforte]

I'm torn. On one hand, I give students and cousins credit because the defense has improved outside of a couple of games and while the WR and RB quality has dropped considerably, along with the injuries, I also feel like Jay is a ****ty play caller and cousins has too many mental blips for a veteran to where if they both left in 2018 I wouldn't give 2 ****s and I'd at least be intrigued about an unknown regime heading into next season. I've always liked Kirk and Jay impresses me in many ways but I feel like this team will always be mediocre with gruden directing the show and cousins managing the war zone

[thamajinforte]

On 10/15/2017 at 7:15 PM, Rufus T Firefly said:

Yeah, I disagree with that complaint. You can't throw an incompletion to leave 1:30 for them to get the winning FG. 

 

What I would have liked to see was a bootleg. They were keying on the RB, obviously. So fake it to Perine into the left side, have everyone block that way, and then Cousins holds the ball and runs the other way. They likely go for the fake and KC trots for a first. If they sniff it out, Kirk drops on the ball, keeps the clock moving. Losing 5 yards is fairly irrelevant there.

 

I recall seeing someone here saying the bootleg isn't cousins game, but I remember his first nfl start vs browns and the bootleg was pivotal to his success

 

[sebestian]

On 2017-11-17 at 7:58 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

The same Mike Tomlin that Steelers fans constantly complain sucks at clock management (among other things) since pretty much forever?

 

It's the nature of the common fan to constantly second guess head coaches on pretty much everything that doesn't end up working....even if their teams historically win a lot of games.

 

Actually I did not that. Seems strange that Steelers fans complain about anything really. 

 

To your point, it would be nice to have stability and a common goal within this organization. 

 

I just dont think that Gruden is a good coach. Nothing he does tells me he is. I will not be confident with him as the head coach. 

 

Maybe I just want to win too bad. 

 

I like Tomlin a lot. 

[campbellcooleyconnection]

Also would kill to have Tomlin(oh well) Grudensettles for Fieldgoals too often is just overall too passive for me.Hes likable but not going too take us where we want too go.

[OVCChairman]

3 hours ago, campbellcooleyconnection said:

Also would kill to have Tomlin(oh well) Grudensettles for Fieldgoals too often is just overall too passive for me.Hes likable but not going too take us where we want too go.

Pretty sure hes been a gambler on 4th down this season...  Even a few times when it was a terrible decision.  In fact, you reference Tomlin... hes tied for the fewest 4th down attempts with 4... and he's converted 1 time.. We're tied for 11th with 9.. converting on 5. 

[goskins10]

8 hours ago, sebestian said:

 

Actually I did not that. Seems strange that Steelers fans complain about anything really. 

 

To your point, it would be nice to have stability and a common goal within this organization. 

 

I just dont think that Gruden is a good coach. Nothing he does tells me he is. I will not be confident with him as the head coach. 

 

Maybe I just want to win too bad. 

 

I like Tomlin a lot. 

 

First, you are more than welcome to your opinion about Jay, but the implication that people who support Gruden do not want to win as bad as you is total bull****. There is no one on this board that does not want to win or is OK with being .500. So please, just save that kind of garbage.

 

I know quite a few Steelers fans and many believe Tomlin is just barely average. A few years ago when the defense was **** they all wanted him fired. In 2011 they were 12-4 but lost in the wild card playoffs. They were then 8-8 the next 2 seasons. In 2014 they were 10-6 but again lost in the first round. Most Steeler fans wanted his head. A run like that would have had many Redskins fans, wanting the coach run out of town. When they brought in the new OC in 2015, Tomlin was killed for it by fans and even Ben was acting like he wanted Tomlin gone or he was going to leave. It has worked out so some of the chatter has stopped, especially with them making it to the Championship game. What they have that the Redskins do not is a stable FO and ownership. They understand there will be ups and downs and are willing to be patience. They also have committed to their QB, something the Redskins FO has yet to do.

 

In fairness so far they have given Gruden more leeway than others and he has produced better results, even if you and some others refuse to see it. This especially true in terms of getting assistants. This is one of the best staffs. And they work for Jay. They are the ones that sell Jays vision to the players more than the HC does. They all work with these guys directly one on one every day. If they did not believe then the players would not believe. What they have not done is supported Jay in terms of locking up his QB and removing the drama. It's interesting that you say you agree stability is important but yet you want to get rid of the HC, in effect blowing it up and being completely unstable.

 

One of the biggest complaints of the previous coaches in Wash. is they did not get much out of players and did not develop them. Iaonnidis, Preston Smith, Fuller, Dunbar, and others have developed under Gruden and his staff. This year the team has been decimated by injuries, especially at some of the same positions like oline. There was one game, Seattle I think, that there were so many injuries, some happening late in the week, that they only had 43 active players on game day. And the schedule is by far the toughest schedule in the NFL playing almost all PO and first place teams. Yet, outside of last week the team has been very competitive. In fact even last week the team put up 30 on one of the best defenses in the NFL. Unfortunately the defense, who has shown definite signs of improving, laid a big fat ass egg last Sunday, There is another tough test coming up with NO. It will be interesting to see how they respond. My belief is that they will come out playing with more intensity and have a much better game. Stopping the in will be key. NO is 3rd in rushing 1st downs (72)  behind only Carolina and dallast.

 

Also, the idea that Gruden is too conservative is amazing since he leans on the passing game which is by nature more aggressive. If anything it's been Kirk who is the one who has been more conservative this year in some ways, and to a certain extent understandable. The Oline has been patchwork and the WRs have underwhelmed. Pryor has just not panned out. Also, I believe someone else pointed out that using Tomlin as an example of being more aggressive and not settling for FGs is totally false. He has only gone on 4th down 4 times this year (making only 1) vs. Jay's 9 (making 5). The amazing part is people on one hand say he is not aggressive enough and then in the next sentence complain about a passing play saying "just run it down their throat" then in the next sentence if they do run, they are too predictable. thy run all the time"!

 

This years RZ offense is much better than last, and that's without Reed playing much, Pryor being a non-factor, Doctson still working his way into the NFL, and Crowder being injured much of the season. Part of that is 1st and goal from the 1 has been converted unlike last year when it would turn into a FG or worse. They self scouted and got better. A sign of good coaching.

 

Jay Gruden has his faults just like anyone else. But he is a very very good coach and we are lucky to have him.  

[campbellcooleyconnection]

Sorry have seen many 1st & goals inside the 10 turn into field goals this year.Too many times it's obvious that's not going too cut it & keeps opponents around.

[goskins10]

6 minutes ago, campbellcooleyconnection said:

Sorry have seen many 1st & goals inside the 10 turn into field goals this year.Too many times it's obvious that's not going too cut it & keeps opponents around.

 

Hmmm... Based on this link https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

 

The Redskins are 12th in the NFL in RZ TD scoring in terms of % at 55.17% (2016 was 45.9%). They are 9th in terms RZ TDs/gm at 1.8. 

 

In terms of FGs - admittedly this does not tell you if they were 1st and goal or not - but in terms of short Fgs (1 - 29 yds) which would imply the team is at least in the RZ - the Redskins have attempted 9 Fgs. Just for reference, the Steelers have also tried 9 Fgs from 1-29yds. New England has tried 13. In fairness NE is also 2nd in TDs scored in the RZ with 2.3. Pittsburgh is 11th at 1.7. 

 

But both has relay bad TD% from the RZ - NE is 19th at 52.5% (down from 64% last year.) Pittsburgh - the poster child for aggressiveness for some above - is 31st in the NFL at 42.5% (last year was 54.24%). And that is with L Bell and AB along with Ben. They are a almost 13% worse that the Redskins. 

 

Last year you had a case. The team was settling for FGs way too many times. The RZ efficiency - or lack there of - was well documented. But that is just not true this year, at least not so far. 

[Cooooley47]

I really don't understand the lack of patience this fan base has. It's crazy to want to blow it up every 4 years or so. I think Gruden gives the Redskins a chance to have some real stability for the first time since Snyder took over. Those that liked McCloughan should also like Gruden as Scot gave Gruden a lot of praise for his ability to scout players and find talent. Give Gruden a few years to continue to draft his players and get this thing going the way he wants it. If he is fired after this season, that would be absolutely ridiculous. They just gave the guy an extension and the amount of injuries the Skins have had does not allow for a true evaluation. In fact I'd argue the way the team competes with the amount of injuries is pretty damn impressive.  

[TheCoach22]

As I've said, what bothers me with Jay's approach on 4th down is how inconsistent he is. One game he'll go for it in 4th and 6 from the 40, the next he'll kick a 39-yard FG on 4th and 1. His third down playcalling suffers because he has no idea what he's doing the following play. It would be a lot more tolerable to constantly throw short of the sticks if Jay would be a HC who always went for it on 4th and 1 or 2  between midfield and the RZ. He's not.

 

Additionally, his playcalling on 2nd and short is awful and predictable. He almost never uses that as a passing down. Our percentage on 3rd and short is also abysmal. I believe it is because he really doesn't have the chess game down of being a few moves ahead. I think this is also why our hurry-up is such molasses. 

 

This is why I say he is a good schemer but a bad playcaller. Among the HC who call his own plays, he might be the worst in football at playcalling after the scripted plays to start, where I think he is reallly good.

[sebestian]

Sorry, I did not mean that I want them to win more than anyone.  Sorry if that is what it seemed like.  I was referring to that passion and disappointment of the last 25 years that I can not see the good qualities Gruden may have.  

 

Maybe be I only see the negative because I am programmed that way. 

 

As as it pertains to Gruden, I simply do not see a coach that again could lead a team to the Super Bowl. Unfortunatley that is the way I evaluate coaches.

 

Do players play for him, sure however that is not my main concern regarding the role of a head coach. I do not want the coach and the players to be friends. Respect is one thing, respect is required.

 

I am one for stability, but that is an arguement that relates to going to the driving range consistently.  It's great that you spend 1 hour everyday hitting golf balls and practicing.  However if your swing is flawed it does not matter, because you are practicing incorrectly.  In my opinion we could keep him on board for another 15 years and I do not not think that he could ever lead a team to a championship.

 

Again sorry for my original post I did not intend to offend any of our members in any way.  

 

Thanks for your response, it was a good one and it showed some things that I was unaware regarding Gruden.  

 

In the end I hope I am wrong about Gruden, I really hope.

 

Here is too a great game today, a win and no injuries on both sides. 

 

 

 

[goskins10]

7 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

As I've said, what bothers me with Jay's approach on 4th down is how inconsistent he is. One game he'll go for it in 4th and 6 from the 40, the next he'll kick a 39-yard FG on 4th and 1. His third down playcalling suffers because he has no idea what he's doing the following play. It would be a lot more tolerable to constantly throw short of the sticks if Jay would be a HC who always went for it on 4th and 1 or 2  between midfield and the RZ. He's not.

 

Additionally, his playcalling on 2nd and short is awful and predictable. He almost never uses that as a passing down. Our percentage on 3rd and short is also abysmal. I believe it is because he really doesn't have the chess game down of being a few moves ahead. I think this is also why our hurry-up is such molasses. 

 

This is why I say he is a good schemer but a bad playcaller. Among the HC who call his own plays, he might be the worst in football at playcalling after the scripted plays to start, where I think he is reallly good.

 

 

 

Do you have data to back these conclusions up? For example do you have statistics for 2nd down play calling distribution across the NFL? Even just for the Redskins? How about 3rd and short conversion % (need to define short)? Do you know who the HCs are that call plays and what their records are? Offensive statistics? Tendencies? 

 

My guess is it's the tried and true method of the "calibrated eye" test which is typically blind and inaccurate. Honestly, if you have data I would most definitely be interested in seeing it. If I am wrong I will be glad to admit it. But I am reducing the amount of data mining to prove someones proclamations wrong when they do not provide data to support them. 

 

 

 

[goskins10]

11 minutes ago, sebestian said:

Sorry, I did not mean that I want them to win more than anyone.  Sorry if that is what it seemed like.  I was referring to that passion and disappointment of the last 25 years that I can not see the good qualities Gruden may have.  

 

Maybe be I only see the negative because I am programmed that way. 

 

As as it pertains to Gruden, I simply do not see a coach that again could lead a team to the Super Bowl. Unfortunatley that is the way I evaluate coaches.

 

Do players play for him, sure however that is not my main concern regarding the role of a head coach. I do not want the coach and the players to be friends. Respect is one thing, respect is required.

 

I am one for stability, but that is an arguement that relates to going to the driving range consistently.  It's great that you spend 1 hour everyday hitting golf balls and practicing.  However if your swing is flawed it does not matter, because you are practicing incorrectly.  In my opinion we could keep him on board for another 15 years and I do not not think that he could ever lead a team to a championship.

 

Again sorry for my original post I did not intend to offend any of our members in any way.  

 

Thanks for your response, it was a good one and it showed some things that I was unaware regarding Gruden.  

 

In the end I hope I am wrong about Gruden, I really hope.

 

Here is too a great game today, a win and no injuries on both sides. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I, and I am sure others, appreciate it. But isn't winning the SB the end goal for us all? ;-)  

 

Again, we are all the biggest of fans here or we would not be here at all or care and that most definitely includes you. But maybe re-calibrate away from "I want to win more" and "I judge the HC by if they can win a SB", to things more like I do not think he can lead the team on a consistent basis due to the inconsistencies I see on the field. Or like he struggles with situational football - critical play calling, time clock management, etc. Or I question his player selection, his decision to do all the play calling. Can he get the team to buy into his vision? How about the assistants? 

 

I mentioned the items above as I believe they are fair measures of a HC. Jay definitely struggles with a few of them. But I would argue that if we watched other teams as closely - eyeing every play with great scrutiny - we would find that the other HCs by and large could be accused of those same failings. 

 

Lets take them one at a time. 

 

Situational football - We all have seen the struggles with time management. Having said that, this is a failing of every HC in football. Ask any fan of any team - including the NE Patriots (a certain failed 4th and 2 comes to mind) and that will be a complaint. Andy Reid is considered one of the best coaches in football. He has literally lost games with his poor clock management. I know a lot of Steelers fans (it is painful BTW) and they believe Tomlin is one of the worst HCs in terms of time clock management in football. And those are the people that like him! Yet people on this board hail him as great. I am not absolving Jay of his failings. Some decisions have been real head scratchers. But some decisions the fans have thought were wrong were actually the absolute right thing to do. The TO with 4 secs against Seattle for example. The fans were apoplectic about that TO. Yet virtually every discussion with NFL experts - the real ones not the Skip Bayless, Steve asshole Smith guys - lauded Jay for taking that time out. You have to get your defense set- especially with so many starters out meaning he has to rely on guys that have not played together much. Again, I too have found myself yelling at the screen "WTF are you doing????" But I think that's easy sitting at home or a bar to be critical. 

 

Play calling - Jay is known throughout NFL circles as one of the most innovative and best play callers in football. Bill Polian, Marvin Lewis (of course he may be biased), Jim Miller and Pat Kerwin to name a few. Those are real football guys. They do not get caught up in the emotion of the days drama. Those guys are 100% football all the time. They have nothing but great things to say about his play calling. Or at least i have not heard them say anything to the contrary. Jim Miller is particularly interesting since he was an NFL QB and played at a decent level - not great but he certainly knows the game. It is really easy as a fan to question play calling. What I find interesting about those that have a problem with Jay is that when a play works it's typically - well it was a bad play call that he got away with - and every play that fails it is - He should have done...., that was stupid! The thing many people do not understand is you set up tendencies on purpose for a few reasons. One is your players should be able to execute, yes even if the other team has a good idea what you are doing. Each guys needs to beat the guy in front of him. More times than not the reason a play does not work is not because it was a poor play cal, it's because the players did not execute. Again, I am not saying the guy is perfect. But no one is. The other reason is that you show tendencies to set teams up for an unexpected change either later in the game or even the season. I remember an interview with Joe Gibbs where he was asked about why a play worked. He said he ran a play earlier in the season to get it on film that would look like this one. He knew he could use the play that worked later in the season. Which means he called a play earlier in the season that had nothing to do with the game he was playing. 

 

Getting the team to buy into his vision - I do not think that can be questioned. These guys love playing for Jay - that does not mean they love him. He does not need to be their friend. Some people on here jump to that conclusion. Guys can like a HC and not want to play for him. A fair criticism is that they are not as consistent as they should be. While I tend to agree, that is also on the players. The great players do not need the coaches to get them fired up and ready for a game. Also, sometimes the guys on the other side are just playing better. This happened last week. I hope we play them again later in the year - and not just because it means we made the POs. I think on another day and with more players healthy we can beat them. But consistency is something Jay and the team really need to work on. 

 

Player selection - he only has a part in this, see Kirk still not signed to a LTD - but of the players he is given he has made some really good calls and more importantly been developing players - something that did not happen here for a long time. This to me is one of the cornerstones of a great coach and coaching staff. It may be the single most important part of being a HC. Because if you can't develop guys you will never have the talent you need. You just can't get it all through high draft picks and high priced FAs. You have to develop players. 

 

Those are just a few things. I can be and am critical of Jay and the team. I just think we as fans - I include myself here - tend to look at things in a vacuum. A specific play or game. We also watch this team much more closely and critically than any other team - and for good reason. the other 31 teams are just there for the Redskins to have someone to play.... :-)  Also, I really believe the last 25 yrs of futility has a part of it. We have been let down so many times, it's hard to let yourself believe. Every time we do we seem to have reason to believe we get smacked down. I was ready to believe in our D and then last week happened - yes I am willing to take full responsibility for that hideous performance. Trust me, I will never do that again! 

 

If you got this far, thanks for indulging. I know we all just want to win. You are not sold on Jay and that's fair. However, I think he can get us there. Time will certainly tell. Hopfully we start by beating the Saints. Being a Purdue grad Drew Brees is my favorite non-Redskins player. However, I hope he has a miserable day today. 4 picks, 2 of them pick 6s. Kirk going off for 400 yds and 4 TDs in a total romp. But of course that's my wish every game. :-) 

[USS Redskins]

I hate excuses from teams. If you are good you should win, if not, that’s the NFL. 

 

Injuries are a part of the nfl.. skins had a bad hand with those this year but I don’t think injuries really lost them allot of games. A lack of a running game has KILLED them. This has been a fact for the last few years, not just this season. 

The week they were hammered with secondary injuries, the backups played well... the D plays well about every 3rd game.

 

anyway, excuses, excuses. 

 

KC has been very good. No WR threats and no running game and the guy still does very well. 

 

As far as gruden. Idk. I think the problem is Bruce Allen. I don’t like him. I think he sucks as a pres and GM and wish he would float away. 

 

HTTR

[DM72]

Probably not the first time this has been brought up, but I believe Jim Harbaugh will be the next Redskins coach .

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, DM72 said:

Probably not the first time this has been brought up, but I believe Jim Harbaugh will be the next Redskins coach .

 

 

Definitely a first for me. 

 

Why?

[DM72]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Definitely a first for me. 

 

Why?

 

I had thought about this before, but the conversation they just had on ESPN suggested that he could be looking for an out at Michigan and go back to the NFL. And we all know that the Redskins like making a splash when hiring a coach. 

 

 

[TheCoach22]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

 

Do you have data to back these conclusions up? For example do you have statistics for 2nd down play calling distribution across the NFL? Even just for the Redskins? How about 3rd and short conversion % (need to define short)? Do you know who the HCs are that call plays and what their records are? Offensive statistics? Tendencies? 

 

My guess is it's the tried and true method of the "calibrated eye" test which is typically blind and inaccurate. Honestly, if you have data I would most definitely be interested in seeing it. If I am wrong I will be glad to admit it. But I am reducing the amount of data mining to prove someones proclamations wrong when they do not provide data to support them. 

 

 

 

Since I'm off next week, perhaps I'll spend some time looking at play-by-plays for this year vs last. Here's the easy one... we're 22nd in the league in third downs overall. Guess who is first, the Rams and McVay. Ouch.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

 

But, anecdotal evidence would be rereading any game day thread. I understand that any play call that works is a good one and any one that fails is a poor call, but I'm willing to bet that like me you watch our Skins closely enough to be able to predict run/pass with 80-90% accuracy. I don't need data to know what I know.

 

One game thread this year contains pages pages of venting about three third and ones and a fourth and one where his playcalling was horrendous. We love to run PA and boot Kirk with a run/pass option inside the 10, but apparently it is illegal to run this play anywhere else on the field.

 

You'll also see multiple examples where the Skins pick up 8 or 9 on first down and the armchair HCs will say, "good down for playaction." Too often the next page is a bunch of **** **** **** posts because we lose three years running behind our weakest link on the OL. Recommended play above would be refreshing every once in awhile.

 

Our four minute and two minute offense is bad. Look at the numbers of how we close halves and games. This team moves in slow motion, as if they never practices the hurry up. The inexplicable timeout in KC is the best example of a coach not knowing what to do, but we haven't played a clean four quarters of football but once this year, and usually we fall apart inside the two minute warning. When the pressure is on, Jay struggles. 

 

As for HC who call their own plays... Arians, O'Brien, Reid, McCarthy, Payton, Gase... that's off the top of my head but I believe about 1/3 of NFL coaches do. Shanny I'm sure... McVay of course. Some have flaws that I'm sure their fans pound on too, but when we go up against most of these teams I see the personality come out in the playcalling. Jay seems to have a complex.

 

There was a good read on Arians and McVay earlier this year, if O can find it I will share. I also read one on Jay having one of the smaller playsheets because he stores so much in his head.  Personally, I think he needs a bigger cheat sheet.

[goskins10]

43 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

Since I'm off next week, perhaps I'll spend some time looking at play-by-plays for this year vs last. Here's the easy one... we're 22nd in the league in third downs overall. Guess who is first, the Rams and McVay. Ouch.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

 

But, anecdotal evidence would be rereading any game day thread. I understand that any play call that works is a good one and any one that fails is a poor call, but I'm willing to bet that like me you watch our Skins closely enough to be able to predict run/pass with 80-90% accuracy. I don't need data to know what I know.

 

One game thread this year contains pages pages of venting about three third and ones and a fourth and one where his playcalling was horrendous. We love to run PA and boot Kirk with a run/pass option inside the 10, but apparently it is illegal to run this play anywhere else on the field.

 

Edit

 

I appreciate the more detailed response. I will address some of it later when i have time - game time preparation right now! But are you really citing the game day thread as a data driven resource? I can't think of a less reliable source. It is filled with emotion and anger based on one play to the next. Don't get me wrong, I am right there too with the same silo approach during the game. Guilty as charged. 

 

But as an actual source of data to prove something other than fans are, well fans? Sorry, just not buying that one at all. 

[TheCoach22]

@goskins10 I understand, and I actually like to read the GDT when we come back and win to get a good chuckle... ? my point was when you watch a team, you know a team... at least those who spend time on sites such as these.

 

Jay has a good offensive system, but I don't think he is a great playcaller. If Hue Jackson gets canned, Jay might want to consider bringing him in to call plays. The Redskins would benefit by this move, imho. 

 

I want Jay to succeed because I love this team... but the HC and QB get the bulk of credit in victory and the bulk of the blame in defeat. It is easy to find fault both places, also easy to see reasons to stay the course. Tis the life of a Skins' fan.

[sebestian]

@goskins10

 

Great point on if we looked at every coach in the league with scrutiny that we look at Grudens decisions I am sure we would find something. 

 

Really good point. 

 

I still do not like him, but that was an excellent point. 

 

Hope he has a great game today. 

 

Hoping yo post in a victorious post game thread.