2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[mistertim]

27 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

This could drive DT and NT stock up. Vea and Payne could go a little earlier. Wouldn't be shocked to see Vea gone before 13.

 

I'd be super stoked if Vea went before 13 because that's likely to push down a blue chip talent. These big behemoths always get overdrafted because everyone is hoping they're the next Ngata but it never happens. And I have serious concerns about Vea's desire as well as technique (though one of this is much easier to fix than the other). Hell, Danny Shelton went 12th overall and most draftniks think Vea is a better prospect (I disagree a bit) and he ended up a bust for where he was drafted and after 3 years got traded for a ham sandwich to NE.

[Otis Wonsley Posse]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with most of your overriding point.  I like Jones but don't love where I am fired up enough to debate him. Outside of Thompson as far as I recall all our RBs are 4.65 range guys and that even includes Bibbs who some see as the quick one in the mix.  We can for example draft Billy Price but IMO its not going to turn around the running game with our current Jags.  You need a LT AND a RB. 

 

I like Alex Smith more than you do but I do agree with where you are going with it.  That is, you got a 34 year old QB now so how much more of his prime you are going to get -- maybe 2 years?    So you have a win now verdict.   Otherwise, you are making a trade were you are giving up youth just to tread water in the 8-8 range for a little while?  If so IMO that's pathetic.  To double down on that point, some beat guys are suggesting Dan is impatient and the powers that be are in a playoffs or bust mode otherwise jobs will be lost.

 

Meanwhile, from what I've noticed national prognosticators-Vegas is underwhelmed by their oddly conservative FA season considering the backdrop of all this and seem to be predicting that the team is much more likely to slide closer to the bottom of the barrel as opposed to rise above mediocrity. 

 

At the moment it does feel like the perfect storm for missing the playoffs.  That's why part of me wonders if they are going to be ultra aggressive in this draft including trading 2019 picks to upgrade 2018.  And a FA move is on the way.  But who knows?

 

The running game will be an interesting showcase because they all seem to be screaming they are on it.  But if they give it the short shrift as they typically do.  And lets say the Eagles who already easily have a better running game goes for one of the top guys and it works for them -- couple that with the Eagles already having the better D line than we do and they regardless beefed that position up too during the off season -- it will come off with an odd feel of neglect from this team juxtaposed with the Superbowl Champions (with less cap room no less) having the air that they are the team (not the Redskins) with the much higher level of urgency.

 

I am a BPA guy, too.  To this point, I still think its going to be Derwin James or Fitzpatrick.  One will fall. Fingers crossed.  I am with Cooley on Payne -- like he said if he can pick the one worse case scenario at 13 that he would hate, it would be taking Payne at 13.  His opinion (I agree) it would be taking a B level player at an A level spot.   If they trade down and take Payne, different story.

 

I think we gave up youth just to tread water for a little while. JMO hope I’m wrong

[bh32]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'd be super stoked if Vea went before 13 because that's likely to push down a blue chip talent. These big behemoths always get overdrafted because everyone is hoping they're the next Ngata but it never happens. And I have serious concerns about Vea's desire as well as technique (though one of this is much easier to fix than the other). Hell, Danny Shelton went 12th overall and most draftniks think Vea is a better prospect (I disagree a bit) and he ended up a bust for where he was drafted and after 3 years got traded for a ham sandwich to NE.

So what is your solution to stopping the run on defense?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Vea Is the safe pick. It will greatly improve our front 7. And I’d love it if he ends up being Haloti Ngata. But I’d prefer Fitzpatrick or a trade down. 

 

But if Vea is the pick, I’ll be stoked. Our DL will be nasty. Brian Baldinger said today he’s Ngata but can rush the passer. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Otis Wonsley Posse said:

 

I think we gave up youth just to tread water for a little while. JMO hope I’m wrong

 

Could be so.  Thus far, IMO they are acting that way this off season.  But the off season is still young, will see what happens next.

[mistertim]

24 minutes ago, bh32 said:

So what is your solution to stopping the run on defense?

 

Well, first thing would be not having 3/4 of our DL injured. Our run D was actually not bad before Allen and The Greek got hurt. My ideal solution as far as a new acquisition would be Hankins but barring that I'd rather pick up a guy like Phillips, Settle, or Hill in the 2nd instead of (IMO) overdrafting Vea or Payne at 13. If none of the better players we want fall (Fitz, James, Smith, etc) and we can't find a trading partner and we're dead set on taking DL I'd be "ok" with Vea but there are some red flags for me on him so I'd be dubious but hopeful. I'd also take Guice before Vea or Payne easily as well at 13 but it sounds like the Skins are more likely to take Guice if they trade down.

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Vea Is the safe pick. It will greatly improve our front 7. And I’d love it if he ends up being Haloti Ngata. But I’d prefer Fitzpatrick or a trade down. 

 

But if Vea is the pick, I’ll be stoked. Our DL will be nasty. Brian Baldinger said today he’s Ngata but can rush the passer. 

 

See I think Vea is actually a super high risk pick. He has serious technique and leverage issues and gets by purely on his size in college. But even bigger than that are possible motivation/character concerns. You watch his cutups and you can tell he basically just takes plays off pretty often. I also read and saw a video about how he got poor grades because he just didn't like putting in the work. And in college he couldn't play unless he got his grades up and they basically had to drag him by the ear to do his school work just so he could actually play. He ain't gonna have anyone doing that for him in the NFL...he's going to be expected to be self motivated and I just see red flags about that. 

 

I have a feeling he might get to the NFL, get a bunch of money, and just figure he can do the same thing and get by purely on his size without putting in the extra technique work and film study on his own. And it simply won't work. A good NFL C/G with good technique/leverage will be able to beat a bigger guy with crappy technique most of the time. He may just end up being a Danny Shelton in the NFL...mediocre run stuffer, poor pass rusher, not at all worth where he was drafted.

 

Now, if he can or has learned to motivate himself and truly wants it then I think he could be great. But is that gonna happen? To me it's a complete unknown and that's why I say he's a really high risk pick.

[bh32]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Well, first thing would be not having 3/4 of our DL injured. Our run D was actually not bad before Allen and The Greek got hurt. My ideal solution as far as a new acquisition would be Hankins but barring that I'd rather pick up a guy like Phillips, Settle, or Harris in the 2nd instead of (IMO) overdrafting Vea or Payne at 13. If none of the better players we want fall (Fitz, James, Smith, etc) and we can't find a trading partner and we're dead set on taking DL I'd be "ok" with Vea but there are some red flags for me on him so I'd be dubious but hopeful. I'd also take Guice before Vea or Payne easily as well at 13 but it sounds like the Skins are more likely to take Guice if they trade down.

I just think it's silly to rely on just Allen and Ioannidis staying healthy as the cure for stopping the run..they need another person in the rotation and as of now they have no one..If they signed Hankins than by all means draft Fitzpatrick or James,but they don'y have that luxury right now..This Defense got killed in nickle and ain't no DB gonna fix it without another capable D lineman up front..

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, bh32 said:

I just think it's silly to rely on just Allen and Ioannidis staying healthy as the cure for stopping the run..they need another person in the rotation and as of now they have no one..If they signed Hankins than by all means draft Fitzpatrick or James,but they don'y have that luxury right now..This Defense got killed in nickle and ain't no DB gonna fix it without another capable D lineman up front..

 

I totally agree that we want another good rotational player in there but I just don't think Vea is worth it at 13. Seems some people automatically think that his size will suddenly make him a force against the run in the NFL, but in the NFL it isn't as simple as being huge because you're playing against the best of the best who really know their technique and how to spot flaws in their opponents game and exploit them. He gets by purely on his size in college but unless he spends plenty of time working on improving his technique and leverage and in the film room he'll just be a situational fat guy. And given my concerns I noted above in response to JMS's post I'm worried that he simply won't be motivated to actually put in that work on his own.

[skinny21]

12 minutes ago, bh32 said:

I just think it's silly to rely on just Allen and Ioannidis staying healthy as the cure for stopping the run..they need another person in the rotation and as of now they have no one..If they signed Hankins than by all means draft Fitzpatrick or James,but they don'y have that luxury right now..This Defense got killed in nickle and ain't no DB gonna fix it without another capable D lineman up front..

They have McGee (solid vs run, not much of a pass rusher), but yeah... they should really add someone.  Thing is, there are plenty of DTs outside of the 1st that fit the bill, and the 2 slated (mostly) for the 1st are really polarizing.  

[TK]

I was tempted to drive off the side of the mountain in Bluefield earlier today when I got a call saying they're talking about bringing back Ladoo-doo at LG. 

[zoony]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Vea Is the safe pick. It will greatly improve our front 7. And I’d love it if he ends up being Haloti Ngata. But I’d prefer Fitzpatrick or a trade down. 

 

But if Vea is the pick, I’ll be stoked. Our DL will be nasty. Brian Baldinger said today he’s Ngata but can rush the passer. 

 

This is where ive been for weeks

 

We are not going to beat dallas until we can stop the run.  Last 4 games have been miserable to watch.  They just march up and down the field 5 yards at a time

[RWJ]

25 minutes ago, TK said:

I was tempted to drive off the side of the mountain in Bluefield earlier today when I got a call saying they're talking about bringing back Ladoo-doo at LG. 

Another mistake by Allen.  Unless this team has a winning record Allen's done TK, IMO.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, zoony said:

 

This is where ive been for weeks

 

We are not going to beat dallas until we can stop the run.  Last 4 games have been miserable to watch.  They just march up and down the field 5 yards at a time

Yeah, if being “disappointed” is getting to see Vea and Allen on the DL for the next 5+ years that’s fine by me. Real tough to run on

[nonniey]

On 4/22/2018 at 4:19 PM, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

..

[skinny21]

40 minutes ago, TK said:

I was tempted to drive off the side of the mountain in Bluefield earlier today when I got a call saying they're talking about bringing back Ladoo-doo at LG. 

Not something I’d be happy about.  But, if they they’re going to do it, I hope to hell they at least wait until after the draft.  

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for the mocks, I don't mean player evaluation -- am talking purely value.  Guice is typically in the 20-35 range not so much 13.  

 

Starting from the beginning of the process, Guice was my guy.  I went away from him some and then returned to him.  That's almost identical to how I was with Cook in 2017.   So I am a big Guice guy still.  But I don't like him over Fitzpatrick, James, R. Smith, Edmonds.    And I think you can trade down and still get him.  And I like Michel and Chubb a lot if they lose out on Guice.  Heck even though he's been trashed some on this thread, I dig Ronald Jones too.  Jones would be my 5th fav.

Agree with the whole 2nd paragraph.  And I’m not trying to bust your balls with this next bit... 

 

The first one is stickier IMO.  Don’t get me wrong, value is important.  However, if you like Guice better than Vea, why worry about mock draft value?  Why worry about when other teams might pull the trigger?  If your guy is there, take them.  It’s kind of the Parcell’s mentality.  

 

Couple that with the idea that I think we have a better shot at finding a rotational 1 tech DT later in the draft than starting back late... I’d go with Guice (if you like him better and your blue chip players are gone).  Know what I mean?

 

On top of that (based off the mocks), teams will select Vea earlier than Guice, but it will be based on hope, not production, if that makes sense.  

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, bh32 said:

I just don't see all the hype with James..Fitzpatrick looks better to me

..Also i cant believe Riddick said James compares to Sean Taylor...lol No way in hell is James as physical as Taylor was.

 

I can sort of understand where the comparison would come from. Now, that doesn't mean I agree with it insofar as James being as good a prospect as ST was...he isn't. ST was a generational talent. But they do have some of the same characteristics. Both long, rangy, and athletic freaks for their size. Both highly instinctual players who have a nose for the ball and are always around the action no matter where it is; playmakers. Both extremely aggressive against the run and in coverage. Both have sideline to sideline range and great closing speed. Both very hard hitters. Both very versatile in where they can play. 

 

So they do have some similarities. But again, with the traits they share, Sean Taylor was better at all of it...but again he was a generational talent so I don't really expect anyone to be nearly that good.

 

Fitz vs James is an interesting one. I think Fitz is a more experienced and heady player who you can plug in pretty much anywhere day one in the NFL and he'll be fine; super high floor. James is less experienced and more instinct driven but I think he has a higher ceiling. However, he'll need some coaching up in the NFL before he can get there. I think he'd be fine at SS or even LB sometimes at first because he's so instinctual but, while he did play some Free/Single High safety in college, I think he'll need some coaching up to do it in the NFL because it's a headier position that requires more understanding of offenses and reading them but I think he has the talent and range to do it. I'd take either of them to be honest.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

l

 

Sony Michel could slip for medical reasons

On his GM Street podcast, The Ringer's Mike Lombardi suggested Georgia RB Sony Michel could slip in the draft for medical reasons.

"There's a lot of teams telling me there's a medical concern here, so he could slip a little bit," said Lombardi, a longtime NFL executive who most recently worked for the Patriots. "His medical grade is a little iffy." Lombardi admitted he doesn't know exactly what the medical issue is. On tape, Michel is arguably the second-best running back in this class behind only Saquon Barkley.

Source: GM Street Podcast

Apr 23 - 7:56 PM

 

Thought I'd pass it along. Maybe he'll be there for our second round pick, maybe he wont, maybe we took him off our board..We'll see...

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

46 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

l

 

Sony Michel could slip for medical reasons

Thought I'd pass it along. Maybe he'll be there for our second round pick, maybe he wont, maybe we took him off our board..We'll see...

Take him off our board due to medical red flags?  That's hilarious.  That probably moved him into consideration at #13. 

 

I think it's easy to get caught up in wanting certain players at 13, which guy can help immediately, which guy has a higher ceiling, etc.  Although I would prefer a defensive presence, I will not bat an eye as long as the player we pick there turns out to be a good player.  We still need an infusion of talent to be a competitive football team.

 

Been a while since we drafted a HOF player.  We are ****ing due.

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

4 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I’m not as high on Guice as many here. Hope one of these defensive studs is there at 13 and we pounce. 

 

 

 

Sony Michel<<<<<<<<<<Guice....

 

 

[nonniey]

2 minutes ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

Sony Michel<<<<<<<<<<Guice....

 

 

Yeah agree, most of us see it that way from what I've seen posted here. I hope most teams think the opposite which may allow Guice to drop to our 2d pick (Some analysts are mocking Michel before Guice).

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, crabbypatty said:

Some random thoughts in no particular order:

 

The Giants won't pass on their choice of qb at #2. Unless gettleman is a complete moron you don't pass on a 10+ year qb for a rb, no matter who he is. They will take a qb, and hope they're not in a position to draft one that high for another 15 years.

 

I like Payne, but not at 13. I maintain he'll be a second round guy, vea will go between 20 and 30.

I don't think any of the dl available this year are top 15 worthy, other than Chubb and Landry.. that dude is top 15 for sure. Legit stud, like von Miller.

 

Small chance Fitz and James make it to 13, of the 2 I like Fitz better though.

 

13 is high for a rb, but I'm convinced guice is the real deal. Take him and don't look back for the next 5+ years.

However if a trade back opportunity presents itself, I wouldn't be salty about Chubb or Michel and a DL or OG later. 

 

I'm convinced the skins are all in on Alex Smith, and will support him with a rb at 13/after trade. It doesn't make sense to give up what they did for him then hang him out to dry with no Kareem hunt clone. They already got their Tyreek Hill in Richardson early in fa... I think they're going to try and replicate Smith's 2017 success with the same offensive pieces and couple it with gruden's pass offense.. we know he can scheme guys wide open, the offense has a chance to be great with Smith and a really good rb.

LG will be solidified one way or another.

 

 

 

1. I think you're wrong there, and I do believe Gentleman is a complete moron, if the Browns go with Josh Allen, and now it seems like a toss up, then the Giants would go Darnold. But if the Browns go Darnold, then they are going to go full moron. And good :). I am bummed that it sounds like Barkley is the choice if they don't get Darnold or trade down as that would actually not be a bust, just not the most genius use of assets. 

 

2. Agreed on the DT's.

 

3. Kinda agree, not for Barkley, but for everyone else, probably yes. If I thought Chubb was 100% back, AP return style, then I'd add him, but agree, no RB other than Barkley is definitively worth the 13th.

 

4. They may try but it's most likely they will fail unfortunately. 

[Berggy9598]

If we're bringing up Guice's pre-injury film, and for good reason, but Nick Chubb's pre-injury film was IMO equally impressive. Thought he was a first round pick before he got hurt but it's been 3 years since that I believe so you wonder if he'll ever be that player again. He didn't lose his incredible balance and that uncanny ability to absorb contact and regather his base in the blink of an eye and he's still very powerful, but I don't think he got that juice back that jumped off the screen his freshman year. 

[Est.1974]

I really don't see us looking to go OL/DL or even RB at 13. Can't see it. Just think we will see a DB or LB/Edge guy who represent way more value. Could see us taking Landry or Davenport before a lineman. 

 

So are the Pats a strong candidate to move up for Lamar Jackson then?