2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[PlayAction]

43 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

 

I just saw Hernandez highlights this morning and I was blown away. All I could think is " man he's a grown man pushing around little boys". He looked like a beast. If we moved down and got him I'd be happy. I wouldnt have a problem with him at 13. I think we would have the best OLine in football.

 

When I look at the Hernandez highlights I see a super strong "power" blocking LG.  The current Skins OL is a very athletic "jack-of-all-trades" type line.  They do everything well but excel at nothing.  MHO.  I don't know whether Hernandez will fit with what the Skins are trying to do.  How well can he do with sweeps or screens?   

[Berggy9598]

23 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

His playoff performances were one of the single biggest reasons they got the trophy this year.  He showed out on the biggest stage in CFB against the second and third best teams in the country.  What more did you expect him to do?

 

To learn how to disengage more efficiently because as nice as that is, NFL scouts will break his game down in a vacuum. Their numbers against the run in both game were very impressive but that defense is a high school all-star team year after year. If he's in a system where he doesn't have to make too many plays himself and he's playing with dynamite linebackers he could be an extremely valuable piece. 

 

16 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

When I look at the Hernandez highlights I see a super strong "power" blocking LG.  The current Skins OL is a very athletic "jack-of-all-trades" type line.  They do everything well but excel at nothing.  MHO.  I don't know whether Hernandez will fit with what the Skins are trying to do.  How well can he do with sweeps or screens?   

 

He's not what they would call athletic on TV but he takes very poignant steps at the second level and understands angles. He also has a very wide base and violent hands so he doesn't always need to square up a defender at the second in order to block effectively. That being said I would he does suit a power scheme much better and I'd be somewhat concerned about the above translating at the NFL level. 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, Dexter said:

I think being at Alabama has helped his stock immensely....his position coach was Karl Dunbar; long time NFL D-line coach and it certainly helped Johnathan Allen for sure.  I think Payne is a flat out stud.  I had my doubts about him but after watching the National Championship Game when they played Georgia I changed my mind.  I was also scratching my head with the Ndamukong Suh comparision but he certainly looked the part in that game.

 

He's also still very young...turns 21 on the 27th of this month.  I think his draft stock is fine.  I would be shocked if he makes it to the back half of the first round.

 

I think being at Bama helped him out a ton just by program recognition. And I think his play in the championship game is what really started and is keeping up his hype. IMO without that game he'd probably be talked about as a 2nd rounder but we wouldn't be hearing his name much in draftnik circles. He made splash plays in that game and that's what gets hype started. But I still say after watching all of his cutups that his film is overall very mediocre.

 

And regardless of what other say I still care about his awful stats. Other guys who basically played the same sort of role were able to actually make those plays and get TFLs and sacks. Vea's stats weren't anything super impressive either but he still had 3 times as many TFLs and 3 times as many sacks in the same amount of seasons as Payne. Harrison, Vea, Settle, Bryan, Hill...all played that same NT 0/1 tech role most of the time but somehow they still managed to actually put up some production numbers to go with it. If you want to just blame it on scheme then go ahead but to me that's a huge red flag and pretty dangerous when you're talking about a top half of the 1st round draft pick. 

 

Another reason I think Payne is simply a hype train that draftniks boarded and simply aren't getting off of his because of how they talk about how amazing he was at the combine and what a freakish athlete it proves he is. But that's mostly because he ran a fast 40 time for his size. Who cares about that for a NT? The rest of his results were pretty average with a relatively poor 3 cone and poor 20 yard shuttle compared to other guys around his size. IIRC Harrison Phillips beat Payne in everything but 40 time while at around the same weight. Ok so Payne will be better at covering outside receivers on go routes than the others. Sweet.

[wilco_holland]

19 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

When I look at the Hernandez highlights I see a super strong "power" blocking LG.  The current Skins OL is a very athletic "jack-of-all-trades" type line.  They do everything well but excel at nothing.  MHO.  I don't know whether Hernandez will fit with what the Skins are trying to do.  How well can he do with sweeps or screens?   

 

Pure based on numbers. He is more athletic then Moses.

 

But yeah our oline does best when they are pulling and moving. 

 

Will Hernandez is surprisingly light on his feet. He is no Scherff but he can make pull blocks and do some screens. I would say around 7 on scale of 10. He can do it and with his massive load he is like a truck. Hard to stop. 

 

Wynn is a better fit for our systeme. 

[BleedBNG]

My "by order of availability" list for this years draft in the first round...

 

Derwin James

Minkah Fitzpatrick 

Vita Vea

Da'ron Payne

Derrius Guice 

Will Hernandez

Mike Hughes 

 

OK, I had RB as the first pick in another thread poll, but I guess I'm willing to wait till next year while we take care of the D. If we pick DG in the first I'll still be happy.

 

[bakedtater1]

Wholy **** the draft is in a couple days!?!!!!...I'm getting excited, can't wait!

[bakedtater1]

So I'm curious to how many people here would lose their lid if we went left guard with our first pick?.. I know I wouldn't, I would actually be ecstatic probably take me a minute to get over but that is how the cowgirls built their Dynamic offensive line...o linemen in the first round..

[BleedBNG]

3 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So I'm curious to how many people here would lose their lid if we went left guard with our first pick?.. I know I wouldn't, I would actually be ecstatic probably take me a minute to get over but that is how the cowgirls built their Dynamic offensive line...o linemen in the first round..

 

Not me, I hear you. Take care of the lines whether on O or D. 

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So I'm curious to how many people here would lose their lid if we went left guard with our first pick?.. I know I wouldn't, I would actually be ecstatic probably take me a minute to get over but that is how the cowgirls built their Dynamic offensive line...o linemen in the first round..

 

Only if Nelson fell to us; if that happened I'd be fine with it. Other than that I don't think any other guard is worth a 1st. Certainly not at 13.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Only if Nelson fell to us; if that happened I'd be fine with it. Other than that I don't think any other guard is worth a 1st. Certainly not at 13.

 

I think Gruden would have a seizure if we go guard at 13.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So I'm curious to how many people here would lose their lid if we went left guard with our first pick?.. I know I wouldn't, I would actually be ecstatic probably take me a minute to get over but that is how the cowgirls built their Dynamic offensive line...o linemen in the first round..

 

Tough for me to think of a player I'd blow my lid about in theory or definitely not based on position alone.  I think it depends on who they passed over to take that guys.

 

If I am just sitting at 13.  My favorites would be:

1.  Fitzpatrick

2.  D. James

3. R. Smith

4. T. Edmonds

5. D. Ward

I can live with Vea.  

 

If I am trading down, there are a lot of guys I like in close range of each other.   My favorites would be:

1. Guice

2. Hernandez

3. D. Moore

4. S. Michel

5. Bryan -- maybe Hurst (if medicals check out)

6. Hughes (if off the field checks out)

7. Alexander (if medicals check out)

8. Vander Esch

9. Ragnow

10. Daniels

 

 

 

[bakedtater1]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Only if Nelson fell to us; if that happened I'd be fine with it. Other than that I don't think any other guard is worth a 1st. Certainly not at 13.

Cool deal..thanks for ur input.

[tmandoug1]

19 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So I'm curious to how many people here would lose their lid if we went left guard with our first pick?

I would lose it if Nelson fell to thirteen and we didn't pick him. He is a game changer for the next ten years. I have been on this train since the begining. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

8 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So I'm curious to how many people here would lose their lid if we went left guard with our first pick?.. I know I wouldn't, I would actually be ecstatic probably take me a minute to get over but that is how the cowgirls built their Dynamic offensive line...o linemen in the first round..

 

I wouldnt lose my lid but my cap would certainly be twisted. 

 

It would mean we couldnt sign Scherff to a LTD after his option through 2019 runs out. No way you could commit that much cap % with Trent (13.8M), Moses (5.4), Scherrf (6.7) and 13th overall pick (3M). Thats 3 1st rounders plus the 3rd highest paid RT in Moses.

 

is Scherff's option really going to be 12.5M next year? .. barring a LTD.   Taking a guard at 5, while he is a beast, just messes up your cap economics. 

[bakedtater1]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

1.  Fitzpatrick

2.  D. James

3. R. Smith

4. T. Edmonds

5. D. Ward

I can live with Vea.  

 

 

 

 

 

Ya that's kind of why I said it would take me a minute to get used to especially if we passed on these players for a left guard at number 13... And as some have mentioned there isn't one worth it so I guess unless the skins see something we don't I highly doubt we go guard at 13..

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I wouldnt lose my lid but my cap would certainly be twisted. 

 

It would mean we couldnt sign Scherff to a LTD after his option through 2019 runs out. No way you could commit that much cap % with Trent (13.8M), Moses (5.4), Scherrf (6.7) and 13th overall pick (3M). Thats 3 1st rounders plus the 3rd highest paid RT in Moses.

 

is Scherff's option really going to be 12.5M next year? .. barring a LTD.   Taking a guard at 5, while he is a beast, just messes up your cap economics. 

Yeah. But Nelson at 13 would actually be decent price for 4 years. Around $4-5 million per. And yeah by the time he’s due for a massive new deal in 2022 you’ve probably moved on from either Trent or Moses and replaced them with a cheaper draft pick. It’s do-able

[bakedtater1]

4 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

I would lose it if Nelson fell to thirteen and we didn't pick him. He is a game changer for the next ten years. I have been on this train since the begining. 

Does he play left guard?..lol isn't he that offensive lineman for the Irish?.. I laugh at myself I guess because I sound ridiculous because I don't know much about college ball at all... So overall I don't have much say in rather if the Skins hit or missed in the draft lol..not to mention what direction the skins should go..

10 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I wouldnt lose my lid but my cap would certainly be twisted. 

 

It would mean we couldnt sign Scherff to a LTD after his option through 2019 runs out. No way you could commit that much cap % with Trent (13.8M), Moses (5.4), Scherrf (6.7) and 13th overall pick (3M). Thats 3 1st rounders plus the 3rd highest paid RT in Moses.

 

is Scherff's option really going to be 12.5M next year? .. barring a LTD.   Taking a guard at 5, while he is a beast, just messes up your cap economics. 

Right on man thank you for breaking it down like that..that was cool..kinda gives me a better idea on how we set..

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Ya that's kind of why I said it would take me a minute to get used to especially if we passed on these players for a left guard at number 13... And as some have mentioned there isn't one worth it so I guess unless the skins see something we don't I highly doubt we go guard at 13..

 

Love Guice and to a lesser extent W. Hernandez but want neither at 13.  The Hernandez subject entered the debate for me in the context of drafting purely in the trenches.  If I am going purely guard or nose in the first -- my favorite would be Hernandez.  I like Vea but don't love him.  Payne I don't hate but I am having a hard time really digging him. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

33 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

So I'm curious to how many people here would lose their lid if we went left guard with our first pick?.. I know I wouldn't, I would actually be ecstatic probably take me a minute to get over but that is how the cowgirls built their Dynamic offensive line...o linemen in the first round..

 

Unless his name is Nelson you'd be getting real bad value taking one top 20. Trade back in the first and you're still liable to have your pick of the interior O-line. Along with an extra pick. 

 

Hail. 

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Does he play left guard?..lol isn't he that offensive lineman for the Irish?.. I laugh at myself I guess because I sound ridiculous because I don't know much about college ball at all... So overall I don't have much say in rather if the Skins hit or missed in the draft lol..not to mention what direction the skins should go..

 

 

I've watched most of his cutups and yeah, Nelson almost exclusively played LG.

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Unless his name is Nelson you'd be getting real bad value taking one top 20. Trade back in the first and you're still liable to have your pick of the interior O-line. Along with an extra pick. 

 

Hail. 

Good call man... I was reading something today or watching a video of some sort about how a lot of managers or executives are willing to give up more to trade down this year..saying there is a boat load of talent in the especially 3rd to 5th rounds..that's good to hear specially if we trade down to ohhh idk whatever it would take to pick up a second second round pick and that 3rd round pick we lost in the Fuller deal..

Just now, mistertim said:

 

I've watched most of his cutups and yeah, Nelson almost exclusively played LG.

Oh cool..ok ya I don't see him making it to 13..I see the bears getting him..but hail ya I've heard he's top notch and wouldn't mind saying bye bye to Sean lavou(how ever it's spelled)but so and so just broke it down to me could we afford all of that money on the offensive line?..

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Yeah. But Nelson at 13 would actually be decent price for 4 years. Around $4-5 million per. And yeah by the time he’s due for a massive new deal in 2022 you’ve probably moved on from either Trent or Moses and replaced them with a cheaper draft pick. It’s do-able

 

Yes. If Nelson is there, its BPA. I was thinking we were talking about James, Ragnow or Hernandez. 

 

Thats a ton of money and resources tied into the O line. The O line is a very important unit but that would be an extreme % of cap that you only get yourself into by mismanaging the cap and roster.  

 

We have to do something about Scherff and that 12.5M cap hit next year. Hopefully our FO is actually being pro active and talking to his people.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Matt Miller's podcast, had the Redskins taking Minkah Fitzpatrick.  

 

Ditto the PFF mock that just came out

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-nfl-mock-draft-5?utm_source=PFF+Newsletter&utm_campaign=86ed3470b5-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_04_23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ae3f4210bf-86ed3470b5-191311489

 

I still think I have a fighting chance to win my bet with GHH on that front.

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

.....

I still think I have a fighting chance to win my bet with GHH on that front.

 

 

 

If 12 NFL teams are that stupid in reality than I don't know what's going on anymore. 

 

Hail. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

Yes. If Nelson is there, its BPA. I was thinking we were talking about James, Ragnow or Hernandez. 

 

Thats a ton of money and resources tied into the O line. The O line is a very important unit but that would be an extreme % of cap that you only get yourself into by mismanaging the cap and roster.  

 

We have to do something about Scherff and that 12.5M cap hit next year. Hopefully our FO is actually being pro active and talking to his people.  

 

Agreed. I'd still take Nelson because he has the potential to be a perennial All Pro (better prospect than Scherff when he came out) but you can only have 3 Pro Bowlers/All Pros in one area of your team for so long before you're gonna be forced to either let one or two go for monetary reasons or let other impact players in other positions go for the same reason. 

 

IMO still wouldn't matter all that much because we'd still have JAGs at RB. Even a great line can't turn a mediocre RB into an All Pro. They can help the run game, but they can only do so much. They can't suddenly make a RB who doesn't have moves have them or who can't survive first contact survive it. I'd rather have a great RB and a good OL than a great OL but poor RB and IMO we already have a good OL but our RBs are completely 'meh". We do need an upgrade at LG but I don't think we need to spend a 1st round pick for that.

 

That being said if Nelson fell AND Fitz and/or James were there it would be a tough decision. I think Fitz and James would have more of an overall impact on our D than Nelson would on our O. But it would be a really tough call. Though if Nelson fell to 13 (almost zero chance it happens) I'm guessing we'd get some extremely tantalizing trade offers so there's that aspect as well.

 

Anyway, probably a 1% chance Nelson gets out of the top 10. Easily one of, if not the best G prospects in the past 10 years.