SkinsPassion4Life Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Did Scott Campbell get demoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Just woke up to this fantastic news (on the West Coast)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I could write a reply to all this. But I already did like a month ago, so just repost my own post: On 2017-5-23 at 0:35 PM, wilco_holland said: I think it's pretty amazing how Bruce Allen can make such a big and strategic story...when he is just gonna make Doug Williams the GM. He makes it sound like he interviewed a lot of people. Gained a lot of intel about how other FO work. Had douzens of meetings about what the perfect way is to run a succesfull organisation. He spend hours and hours to come up with the huge strategic plan for our FO. Everything is going to be different and better. The most important persone in this new FO is gonna be Jake. You ask me who Jake is? Jake is a random dude at Redskins park who does little inhouse buildprojects, like changing names on lockers. He role is HUGE, because he is gonna make new name tags for on the doors of the offices. He changes Doug Williams door name tag to -> General Manager. Scott Campbell to -> Head of scouting. etc etc. *slow clap* Well done Jake, well done....uhm I mean Bruce. Ofcourse Bruce should get all the props. To be honest I have no probleme with the move. I hope Doug does well in this role and 'm happy for him. I do have a probleme with the crap Bruce tells. How can they keep pretending that they did a huge search and hold a freaking press con....when they just changed name tags. The same guys, do the same work. Nothing changed. I don't like the way they handled this at all. Extremely dissapointed. Personally I feel this organisation has lied to me, straight in my face. Right thing to do would be: Just be honest. Say you liked the current group of guys and would like to keep that going. Just send a short and simple press release where you tell that after years of great service a couple of guys got new titels and nothing changes intern. That would just be clean and honest. No bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, Saeth29 said: RH - I'm agreeing with all of your posts today. Basically, we have Jay Gruden reporting to Bruce Allen, and then Doug Williams reporting to Bruce Allen. That, to me, seems like a disaster waiting to happen. One guy will go whining to his boss saying he wants this, and the other guy will do the same... but I'm sure there will be conflicting desires. I have always thought that the coach needs to report to the guy in charge of the personnel (whether that be a GM or Director of Player Personnel). The way it's currently structured, I can see two guys vying for their vision of how the roster should look -- and they probably won't end up working together. So the fact that Jay and Doug have been working together the last 3 years means nothing? You really don't think that Jay had some input here? This idea that Jay and Doug will be "whining" to Bruce vying for his attention just makes zero sense at all. Seriously, these are grown ass men, if they are truly "whining" to anyone they should be fired for that alone! I could much more see Jay and Doug going to Bruce together saying they need/want X player(s) and Bruce making a $ decision to not sign them. That's my fear. While I appreciate Bruce's frugality as he has infused a fiscal responsibility that had not been here since Dan bought the team, it appears he sometime gets a little too caught up in the deal. I guess we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 This is such a ****ing joke. A months-long "search" ending in the guy we all predicted would get the title 5 minutes after McCloughan was fired. Exactly the same as the DC search/hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 22 minutes ago, RWJ said: Just waiting for SIP to respond since the announcement has been made. Hate it. I have been on the record about not giving Bruce the benefit of the doubt but will reverse course if he surprises on the GM front. He did what in my mind is worst case scenario. Promotes Doug who seems to have very little pedigree for the position. And heck you can't even rest with the idea of him being an up and comer considering he's in his 60s already. Then, Bruce retains final say power so remains the defacto GM. And they bring no one from outside the organization to give a helping hand aside from Doug saying they might hire some scouts. Then it also looks like Scott Campbell was pushed aside. AJ Smith's son gets promoted as college director -- who Cooley just said Bruce loves (his dad is one of his best friends) so it was smart for Doug to promote a plan to Bruce centering on Smith's promotion. A couple of people on this thread tout Bruce as a GM king now because of the recent draft. Well, the two guys who were the biggest part of that, Scot and Scott aren't in that role anymore as far as I can tell. It's now on Smith. But yeah I am off the fence (previously leaned against Bruce) on Bruce. I am now firmly in the negative camp on him. Danny Rouhier just expressed my take well, he had a glimmer of hope they'd do the right thing even though he didn't expect it. That glimmer is gone. Grant Paulsen just doubled back on talking to multiple sources about Doug and he said they like him but they don't think that much of Doug's competence. He said though the same people have good things to say about Schaffer and Campbell's competence. My remaining hope is they resign Kirk. I think having a franchise QB can help offset mediocre personnel decisions elsewhere. Doug is a classy guy and I hope he succeeds. I am not rooting to be right on this. But I have a strong feeling that it doesn't end well. Not all of my hunches come true so hopefully that one ends up off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said: This is such a ****ing joke. A months-long "search" ending in the guy we all predicted would get the title 5 minutes after McCloughan was fired. Exactly the same as the DC search/hire. Yet there will be a few here that will tell you this wasn't a coup from the beginning and that this organization is a great place right now. What I'm most concerned about is seeing some success in the very near future that will be sure to get all of us riled up, only to crash in burning flames down the road when this brainstorming cluster**** of a front office really shows their ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I agree. Yet we have tweets like that below. And I think that's part of the reason for the hire. The media has skewered this organization this off season. But Doug would be a tough one for them to assail. I got into this exchange with Chris Russell on twitter where he was claiming the fans are clamoring for Doug to get the job. Russell ultimately backed down and said more or less maybe the fans won't love it but the media will and that's important for the team right now. I saw Finlay's tweet got challenged some with people saying impressive how? Doug to me doesn't ooze competence. I agree Scot's isn't the best speaker either. Some of the other people mentioned earlier in this process such as Louis Reddick though for example come off articulate as heck and insightful. I think Doug Williams might be impressive in persone. He is a pretty big guy with semi low voice and a lot of history. Stuff like that make people impressive when you meet them in persone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 What franchise has a special press conference making a big deal about the front office structure, but this one. Usually not good when you have to explain how your organization makes football decisions and it's not obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Just now, justice98 said: What franchise has a special press conference making a big deal about the front office structure, but this one. Usually not good when you have to explain how your organization makes football decisions and it can't be explained in a simple press release. Particularly when there is nobody new being added to it. It's one thing to have a press conference to introduce a new high level figure into the organization. It's another to hear them 'promote' Doug by Title and 'demote' Campbell while putting a nice ring to it, and then cap it off with Bruce assuring the public that he's still the man in this organization. Eesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Ya know, Doug won Super Bowl 22 but Elway played the long game & won the GM title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Yet there will be a few here that will tell you this wasn't a coup from the beginning and that this organization is a great place right now. What I'm most concerned about is seeing some success in the very near future that will be sure to get all of us riled up, only to crash in burning flames down the road when this brainstorming cluster**** of a front office really shows their ass. Its been the trap under the Danny reign -- fleeting signs of success. You think they nailed a draft or a FA season. Danny's reign has been mostly a failure but he's been a PR wiz at selling off season hope. Even taking this current arrangement, I get the people (especially the younger fans) who say look hey I think they had a rocking off season, just stop being cynical and trust these guys, etc. I used to see it that same way. There has been some occasional sunshine amidst the rain and they seemed at moments as turning points. But they ultimately came crashing down. Is this team going to become the Browns, probably not. But this team has won 1 playoff game this century. That's staggering. If the new model of success is we will have our occasional 9-7 teams and winning a playoff game is equal to a Superbowl victory, then we are on course. Yeah the team has mastered the art of going 6-10 with the occasional sneak into the playoffs year and then get kicked out immediately out of the playoffs as if you don't belong there. My one disclaimer to this is Kirk. Can Kirk change that fortune? Maybe so. But if they lose Kirk I got little doubt that this team goes back to being one of the mediocre to less than mediocre teams in the league that gets lampooned for incompetence and dysfunction in that mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: My one disclaimer to this is Kirk. Can Kirk change that fortune? Maybe so. But if they lose Kirk I got little doubt that this team goes back to being one of the mediocre to less than mediocre teams in the league that gets lampooned for incompetence and dysfunction in that mix. He is the only saving grace for competence. As has been pointed out several times, a good QB can hide roster flaws. If in the event these guys find a way to lose Kirk and start from scratch elsewhere, the guy I feel for the most is Jay Gruden who signed up for more of this **** a few months ago. The sad part is, a press conference was just held to announce Doug's promotion but I didn't get the impression in any capacity that he'll have much if anything to do with getting Kirk a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: He is the only saving grace for competence. As has been pointed out several times, a good QB can hide roster flaws. If in the event these guys find a way to lose Kirk and start from scratch elsewhere, the guy I feel for the most is Jay Gruden who signed up for more of this **** a few months ago. The sad part is, a press conference was just held to announce Doug's promotion but I didn't get the impression in any capacity that he'll have much if anything to do with getting Kirk a deal. Yeah Doug said the contract is on Schaeffer. Grant Paulsen is ripping this hire so far all morning. Glad to see someone with the guts to do it. Paulsen is making fun of Bruce talking up about how he talks up about everyone got along as if its the be all and end all. He goes yeah if you get rid of the people you don't agree with -- everyone will get along but that doesn't connote competence. He just goes this is the return to old school Redskins way under Danny. I've paid close attention to what some of the beat reporters have said about Doug leading up to the process. I think Chris Russell crystalized it the other day on the radio where he said heck Doug might not be good at this but so what since we are talking about DOUG WILLIAMS. He's a legend and the media will love the historic aspect of the hire, case closed. We can't criticize this guy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 So much for a actual GM "search". Now it's official, we're stuck with a couple guys that don't evaluate talent well. "Golf clap, bogey putt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 40 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Yet there will be a few here that will tell you this wasn't a coup from the beginning and that this organization is a great place right now. What I'm most concerned about is seeing some success in the very near future that will be sure to get all of us riled up, only to crash in burning flames down the road when this brainstorming cluster**** of a front office really shows their ass. I mean. Dont we at least have to give them a chance? They, without Mccloughan, had a pretty good off season overall. The team is coming off of back to back winning seasons. Personally I still feel like the team is an ascending team. Now they could "crash in burning flames" as you stated. But lets see how it pans out at this point. If they have another winning season or two in a row. Is it a failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 The naivete is dripping here ... with BA in place you just had to know there would be smoke, but no mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: If they have another winning season or two in a row. Is it a failure? I'm not worried about the next two seasons. *given Kirk gets signed. Im worried about moving forward with the same group of guys with no true talent evaluator being brought in. We have no choice but to give it a chance as we have no say in the matter. That is the best thing you can say about any of this is give it a chance. Because there is no opinion built on logic that tells you they deserve any benefit of doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: I mean. Dont we at least have to give them a chance? They, without Mccloughan, had a pretty good off season overall. The team is coming off of back to back winning seasons. Personally I still feel like the team is an ascending team. Now they could "crash in burning flames" as you stated. But lets see how it pans out at this point. If they have another winning season or two in a row. Is it a failure? First of all, Doug's "background in scouting is small, and poor". He's not a scout. Second, they worked off of Scot's board for the draft and FA, they don't get credit for that. Third, the reason we've been better is because of Scot, and he's gone. We may have a couple more decent seasons because of the players Scot wanted, but after that starts to change, we will go back to being 4-12 bottom dwellers. A lot of that depends on if they blow a deal with Cousins. if they blow that deal, he'll be gone in a year and we will become a 4-12 team almost immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Morneblade said: First of all, Doug's "background in scouting is small, and poor". He's not a scout. Second, they worked off of Scot's board for the draft and FA, they don't get credit for that. Third, the reason we've been better is because of Scot, and he's gone. We may have a couple more decent seasons because of the players Scot wanted, but after that starts to change, we will go back to being 4-12 bottom dwellers. A lot of that depends on if they blow a deal with Cousins. if they blow that deal, he'll be gone in a year and we will become a 4-12 team almost immediately. Definitely comes into play. I don't know if after one year, I'd give it 2 years. The only way that Williams succeeds is if he listens to what information Scott Campbell provides to him. Scott Campbell along with Scot McCloughan's input produced an excellent draft this year, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 And after watching Doug's interview on CSN, I'm now concerned about that. Seems like the accountant (Schaffer) is doing all the negotiating on our side. You don't have the bean counter negotiate a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Not really, he's not a talent evaluator. He's a contract guy. Edit - sounds like he is firmly the contract guy, Bruce Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, Morneblade said: And after watching Doug's interview on CSN, I'm now concerned about that. Seems like the accountant (Schaffer) is doing all the negotiating on our side. You don't have the bean counter negotiate a contract. To be fair, Schaffer has done ALL of the contracts as far as I know. He's the gap guru that's saved us from cap hell repeatedly, too. Watching this process play out was like watching wrestling. You knew what the main event was going to be at Wrestlemania about ten minutes after the previous year's Wrestlemania ended. All this hype, all these "twists", all these new appearances just to give you the exact same thing you knew would happen. The only twist that mattered here was the seeming (important word here) patronization (likely not a real word) of Campbell. The guy best suited to take over got a pat on the head, a different title, and nothing else. McMahon, err, Allen remains in control even if RAW, err, the front office officially has a different (or no) manager. I never thought it would end differently, yet here I am still disappointed. As long as Allen is in a position of power, we will be 11-5 at best, divisional round moral victors, and more often than not a top-15 pick. So demoralizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 CSN RedskinsVerified account @CSNRedskins 15s16 seconds ago Who's plan was it not to hire a GM? Doug Williams's (VIDEO) #Redskins http://bit.ly/2sjYDBY They made sure to point out to the media that the idea of not having a GM was Doug's idea. Not Bruce's. That way if it doesn't work out, Bruce is protected and can't be blamed/ held responsible for the mishandling of front office responsibilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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