The "Gorilla" thread...

[Barney B]

I'm holding a gun to the head of a panda right now. Stop all this talk or another endangered animal gets it. 

 

 

Dude. Let my people go. 

[Larry]

If a 400lbs gorilla is that dangerous, and it is, then it shouldn't be possible for a 4yo to gain access to its cage.

I believe that to be fact. That rests the "blame" on the zoo.

Observing that choosing "impossible" as your standard runs the risk of, shall I say, establishing an impossible standard.

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

If I'd've been there I would have saved that kid AND left the gorilla relatively unharmed using these fast acting gorilla tranquilizers known as my fists.

[tshile]

I get that people are mad that a gorilla was killed because a kid was unsupervised, and that's an important discussion to have and maybe the parent should be hound accountable in some way...

 

but that's all it is, an important conversation to have especially in regards to preventing it and maybe holding the parent accountable in some way. once the kid falls into the pit, the only thing that matters is saving the kid.

 

when we were discussing it over the weekend, everyone said the same thing - if I was standing there, and had a gun, I would have shot that gorilla too, whether it our was my kid or not. and if it was my kid, and I didn't have a gun, and someone else did have one, I would hope they would have done the same for my kid.

 

if the gorillas were leaving the kid alone that's one thing, but the second it appears one is going for the kid it's time to act.

 

of course, that then presents another issue - shooting the gorilla without hitting the kid...

[Koolblue13]

The standard thought process of a protester here is this:

"A reasonable, responsible person (or organization) would have done the following, which I, for one, surely would have done:

(1) Watched the child more closely;

(2) Had a more secure barrier, or a secondary barrier, third level barrier, and forth level barrier;

(3) Not had a Gorilla in captivity to begin with;

(4) Attempted other measures prior to shooting the Gorilla, like darting it;

(5) Realized that the gorilla was only attempting to protect the child;

(6) In addition, the parents should now be charged with the murder of a Gorilla;

(7) The zoo should pay reparations, perhaps by making a large donation to [enter charity's name] which assists captive gorillas in the transition back to their natural habitat.

I don't understand how the self righteous label is being applied to the protesting

Observing that choosing "impossible" as your standard runs the risk of, shall I say, establishing an impossible standard.

can a 4yo climb 8 foot of negatively angled plexiglass?

Seems like a possible standard and affordable.

[Barney B]

Observing that choosing "impossible" as your standard runs the risk of, shall I say, establishing an impossible standard.

 

 

I bet nobody says that in regards to the shark tank.  

[SkinInsite]

It's only self righteous if they are protesting something i don't care about.

[Springfield]

We now live in a time when someone MUST be held at fault if something bad happens. The people at fault, as deemed by the masses, must be publicly shamed, threatened and often endangered.

[Koolblue13]

We now live in a time when someone MUST be held at fault if something bad happens. The people at fault, as deemed by the masses, must be publicly shamed, threatened and often endangered.

I do think it's generally over blown personally, but when an institution like a zoo says "hey, gimme a couple bucks and you can look at my 400lbs gorilla in a box. Bring your kids, I'll give them balloons and an ice cream", it's fair to say that a professional layer of safety is involved and it was just cracked by a 4yo.

Because of that, an endangered species is dead, child scared and almost killed and Facebook is unbearable today.

As I said earlier, I wish it would open the dialog about the ethical side of zoos, through exposure and maybe something positive could come from this tragedy.

[SkinInsite]

We now live in a time when someone MUST be held at fault if something bad happens. The people at fault, as deemed by the masses, must be publicly shamed, threatened and often endangered.

 

easier to find someone to blame than look at the deeper issues that may cause you to sacrifice some daily comfort.

 

better to just burn the witch

[GoDeep81]

If all the barrier really was, was a few wires at the bottom of a fence and a row of bushes, Im very surprised it hasn't happened before.. That seems negligent imo, but again, I don't know exactly what the barriers were.. Obviously they weren't enough.. RIP Harambe.

[grhqofb5]

I'm holding a gun to the head of a panda right now. Stop all this talk or another endangered animal gets it. 

 

Don't do it man.  Think of the protesters for god's sake.  You're not even human anymore.  Damn you.  Can't anyone ever think of the protesters....

As I said earlier, I wish it would open the dialog about the ethical side of zoos, through exposure and maybe something positive could come from this tragedy.

 

Not to call you out or anything, but I think there has been a dialog on these issues now for at least 30 years.  I think the bottom line is that exotic animals will continue to be held in captivity (in the U.S.) until either (1) laws are passed outlawing it, or (2) it becomes unprofitable.

[Elessar78]

Or they rise up. #animaluprising

[Koolblue13]

Don't do it man. Think of the protesters for god's sake. You're not even human anymore. Damn you. Can't anyone ever think of the protesters....

Not to call you out or anything, but I think there has been a dialog on these issues now for at least 30 years. I think the bottom line is that exotic animals will continue to be held in captivity (in the U.S.) until either (1) laws are passed outlawing it, or (2) it becomes unprofitable.

spreading information and conversation help. Look at the impact blackfish and the cove have had.

You see a gorilla bred into captivity, for the sole purpose of people being able to look at it and people begin to wonder if it's cruel and it becomes unacceptable.

Same for circus elephants or dancing bears.

It can spread into things like horse racing and dog breeding. Eventually even animal agriculture.

But conversation and information is good.

[zoony]

I do think it's generally over blown personally, but when an institution like a zoo says "hey, gimme a couple bucks and you can look at my 400lbs gorilla in a box. Bring your kids, I'll give them balloons and an ice cream", it's fair to say that a professional layer of safety is involved and it was just cracked by a 4yo.

Because of that, an endangered species is dead, child scared and almost killed and Facebook is unbearable today.

As I said earlier, I wish it would open the dialog about the ethical side of zoos, through exposure and maybe something positive could come from this tragedy.

Based on the above characterization of what a zoo is and does, I don't believe your last sentence in the least

I think you're interested in standing on your soapbox and yelling as loud as possible

[Bang]

Tough call. the gorilla is a majestic animal, and the kid seemed pretty ordinary.

 

~Bang

[Koolblue13]

Based on the above characterization of what a zoo is and does, I don't believe your last sentence in the least

I think you're interested in standing on your soapbox and yelling as loud as possible

I know you do.

[ixcuincle]

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,21009733,00.html

A vigil for Harambe was held near the front entrance to the zoo on Monday afternoon. "This is an action in response of a sensless death," wrote Anthony Seta, creator of the event on Facebook. "I know how we are all angry and upset over this situation. This demonstration is in memory of Harambe. This is not a protest against the zoo."

People have been leaving flowers and notes in memory of Harambe around the gorilla statue at the entrance to Gorilla World, Maynard said.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Well here is my $0.02

 

-Once the kid was in the pen and in danger, it was 100% right for the animal to be killed.

 

-The mom is 100% responsible for the kid getting into the pen.

 

-The enclosure has been able to keep out millions of people due to at least a small part of parental responsibility.

 

Parental responsibility.  Is that still a thing?  It isn't the job of a public place to protect your kid, it is your job.  I would be fine with the zoo suing the mother for the cost of the animal.

 

And zoo's are a necessary thing.  And I say that as one of the most, if not THE most, active members in animal rescue on this forum.  One, the zoo that you all see if often just a small part of what they do.  And your ticket is helping pay for all the other things they do.  Second, it helps get kids interested in animals and the environment.  It encourages a few of them to grow up and become veterinarians or the such.  That is important. 

[Zguy28]

My take, as somebody with three kids only a few years apart, I will give the mom the benefit of the doubt. Plus I wasn't there, no idea how it actually unfolded (apparently rather fast). From anecdotal observations in public, and my own experience child rearing, even a little discipline most of the time most likely prevents this, and this is something lacking in many parents today. But while that may be the case, and as tempting as that soapbox is, there is no way to know in this case.

 

It is extremely sad that the gorilla had to be killed. But at the end of the day, human life is always more valuable than an animal.

[jpage520]

As stated by a few folks already, this is a tragedy, and goes a bit deeper than what it seems so many are making it out to be. Which plays a big part in the degree of tragedy here. The mob mentality that forms on issues like this is downright frightening. I don't want to make this into some anti SJW rant or something like that. But I do think that these mobs that form and the action they take in some cases are absolutely awful. Entire lives get affected in a big way only for these mobs to forget and be onto the next issue sometimes only a couple days later completely ignoring the damage done in their wake.

[Bang]

Anyone who has a kid knows how fast they can get away from you, no matter how careful you're being. A 4 yr old can be clean out of sight in a second. (ESPECIALLY one who wants to do something.)
(Based on some eyewitness accounts i am reading, mom had told the boy to keep his hand in her back pocket while she took a picture. Seems reasonable enough. 
The kid took off and crawled under a rail through some bushes and fell in.

 

Nice to see the warriors on facebook now passing around a photo of the parents to try and demonize them.

 

I am also reading accounts by other zookeepers who say that in looking at the video, the gorilla was becoming agitated and had moved toward the kid as they do when they begin showing dominance,, ie preparing to pick things up and smash them onto the ground. 

 

Accidents happen. 

Except to people on the internet. everything they have ever done is and will always be perfect, and they never have had any accident of any kind. and thety know th exact actions anyone should take given any situation.. and typically, it is opposite of what happened and they once again are justified in thinking that if only planet earth had listened to THEM than things would be different...
 

In reading through most people who are always so fast to level blame, and be totally convinced that their know-nothing opinion is 100% correct.. that I can see why so many people think killing the gorilla was the wrong move.

 

~Bang

[Jumbo]

I'm just going to say a few things about modern major zoos.

 

They are an institution where positives far outweigh the negatives IMV, if you care about animals. Across the land, they do far more to benefit animals and people via exposure and education (even actively saving many animals) than not.  They very much help people get in touch with life on this planet that they otherwise see only on a screen. Such places host tens of millions of visitors every year, many of whom leave feeling more interest and even more love for animals. I doubt any leave with a desire to care less about animals than when they entered.

 

Setting the highest standard for care and safety should be relentless, but modern zoos DO provide among the highest levels of public safety for guests,  and a habitat for animals that very much resembles their natural environment. Such will, of course, fall far short of the real thing in either dangers or freedoms for the animal, but it is arguably often a decent existence per their norm. I think eliminating such places would greatly hurt---not help--animal causes at this point in time. Major zoos today are some of the strongest and most publicly vocal advocates for caring about animals.

 

While I don't believe my assertions require direct experience to support them, I have accompanied more than few groups of various types to major zoos in the region, and seen all kinds of other groups and people there having their own experiences. It is always a very positive vibe all around and people get really interested in the animals. I wonder how much negative zoo commentary comes from people who haven't even been to a major modern zoo.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I see a lot of people supporting the mother by pointing out that you only have but so much control over a 4 year old.  I get that but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility.  When I was a kid and hit a ball that broke the neighbors window, it was an accident but it was still my parents responsibility.  That is why they paid for the window.  Same here.  There is a level of parental responsibility that seems lost these days.  I see the level of responsibility that is required and want no part of it.  That's why I don't have any kids.

[abdcskins]

Should've shot the kid instead.