The "Gorilla" thread...

[Zguy28]

I read this on Twitter last night. It really made me sit back and think, which is often hard I admit.

 

Ed Stetzer ‏@edstetzer 13h13 hours ago

In 5 days: -700 refugees drowned off Greece, -9000 babies were aborted in U.S., -68 were shot in Chicago

...and a gorilla dominated the news.

[Koolblue13]

I read this on Twitter last night. It really made me sit back and think, which is often hard I admit.

Ed Stetzer ‏@edstetzer 13h13 hours ago

In 5 days: -700 refugees drowned off Greece, -9000 babies were aborted in U.S., -68 were shot in Chicago

...and a gorilla dominated the news.

babies don't get aborted, fetus do. Great sidetrack though.

20,000 cows are killed a day, nobody cares. 1 gorilla gets shot, everyone loses their mind.

I agree with you. We're at war. 22 veterans on average kill themselves a day, but we're not discussing human problems.

We're more discussing one of the other thousands of species and how our treatment of them can change.

I am aware of all this. I was only making the comparison because KoolBlue had asked if I would like being locked in a 10,000 sqft mansion and the comparison doesn't hold water. Apes and humans obviously still have a lot of differences. In my opinion, zoo's are a necessity and while they would prefer not to be locked up, every effort is made to make their pens as enjoyable as possible for both the animal and the spectators.

I'm still laughing at how ludicrous your previous statement was and how far removed you are from understanding a conversation like this.

[Major Harris]

babies don't get aborted, fetus do. Great sidetrack though.

Easy you 2, we're treading close to the abyss of an abortion debate.

20,000 cows are killed a day

That's a delicious stat.

[Zguy28]

Easy you 2, we're treading close to the abyss of an abortion debate.

 

I'm not. It was just included in the Tweet as part of the larger point about how out of balance societal views are on the value of human life.

[CBass1724]

20,000 cows are killed a day

 

 

That's a delicious stat.

 

Quoted for emphasis/deliciousness/hunger.  #StatOfTheDay

[Zguy28]

Quoted for emphasis/deliciousness/hunger.  #StatOfTheDay

Now I want to go over to the grilling/cooking thread.

[Koolblue13]

I'm not. It was just included in the Tweet as part of the larger point about how out of balance societal views are on the value of life.

This I agree with.

[Bang]

lol "societal views"... our societal views are manipulated for ratings and advertising dollars.

 

And i think that is the bigger comment by this tweet..  in that our media is a circus sideshow. We are not informed by our media, and we are left to find fewer and fewer avenues of any substance.

 

Like a gorilla in the zoo,,, we can only eat what we are fed.

 

 

~Bang

[Koolblue13]

One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

This is safe to be upset about and we'll forget about it in a week.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Now I want to go over to the grilling/cooking thread.

I have been wondering what a gorilla burger would taste like all week.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I'm still laughing at how ludicrous your previous statement was and how far removed you are from understanding a conversation like this.

I am not "removed from understanding a conversation like this" but am thinking about the emotional side vs the realistic side.  You want to complain about an animal locked in a pen.  I point out that things are done to make it as painless as possible for the animal while still getting the benefits of having that animal.  You want to throw out a stat about the 20,000 cows killed a day.  But don't address how many people are fed and clothed by those animals.  I care more about animal well being than most anyone in here.  But I still understand their place in the world and the necessary evils that come with it.  The sad fact of the matter is that one ape in a cage will inspire a dozen children to grow up and become veterinarians who will go to save a hundred apes lives.  And the admission charges at that zoo will pay for 5 lions to get life saving surgeries.  Zoo's good far outweigh their bad and they do what they can to make it as painless for the animal as reasonably possible.  You don't seem to want to accept that. 

[KingGibbs]

What?! A 4 year old got away in a blink of an eye? No way?!

[Predicto]

We're at war. 22 veterans on average kill themselves a day, but we're not discussing human problems.

 

 

 

/derail

 

Just for the record, that statistic is grossly misleading.  22 vets kill themselves a day because most vets are elderly and male, and elderly males tend to kill themselves more than anyone realizes.

 

the true figure for young vets is probably closer to 1.5 per day, which is tragic too.  But the magnitude of the problem is exaggerated

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/20/science/la-sci-sn-veteran-suicide-statistics-20131219

 

/end derail

[Koolblue13]

I am not "removed from understanding a conversation like this" but am thinking about the emotional side vs the realistic side. You want to complain about an animal locked in a pen. I point out that things are done to make it as painless as possible for the animal while still getting the benefits of having that animal. You want to throw out a stat about the 20,000 cows killed a day. But don't address how many people are fed and clothed by those animals. I care more about animal well being than most anyone in here. But I still understand their place in the world and the necessary evils that come with it. The sad fact of the matter is that one ape in a cage will inspire a dozen children to grow up and become veterinarians who will go to save a hundred apes lives. And the admission charges at that zoo will pay for 5 lions to get life saving surgeries. Zoo's good far outweigh their bad and they do what they can to make it as painless for the animal as reasonably possible. You don't seem to want to accept that.

I completely understand that. One of the main reasons I don't eat cows, is because it's responsible for almost all the deforestation and the leading cause of climate change that leads to these animals seemingly needing to be kept safely in boxes.Same with palm oil.

To say that an ape more closely resembles a house plant, than it does a human, is to pretend that humans not only aren't animals, but so removed and superior, that the only way for animals to survive is to remove them from nature.

[spaceman47]

I think we have just inadvertently started the Rise of the Planet of the Apes...or the Dawn of the Planet of the Apes...or maybe the Conquest of the Planet of the Apes.  If they take over we may have to start thinking to Escape from the Planet of the Apes...or Battle for the Planet of the Apes... or maybe hide Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

 

Ok I ran out of ape movies.  I'm done.

[CBass1724]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Qp38qT-xI

[stevenaa]

What about a person that has a pool in their back yard. They put up a 4ft fence per code, have an alarm on the gate per code, and lock the gate per code.

A 4yo pulls something over to the gate, climbs over, and ends up drowing. Are the home owners with the pool liable?

There are endless scenarios you can come up with were lines of responsibility blur.  I'm aware of the dangers my neighbors pool presents.  They are reasonable and expected and I have a role to play in minimizing that risk by keeping my child out of the yard.    There should be absolutely zero danger to my 4 year old from the dangerous animals in a zoo.   If there is a petting area,  I understand the risks.  But there's simply no rationale you can make that justifies access to that enclosure.  It is 100% incumbent on the zoo to prevent that eventuality. 

[daveakl]

Got it. So everywhere but the zoo you are willing to play a roll in minimizing your child's risk. But at the zoo your kids should be able to roam free while the animals are safely caged from any and all scenarios.

[Popeman38]

There are endless scenarios you can come up with were lines of responsibility blur.  I'm aware of the dangers my neighbors pool presents.  They are reasonable and expected and I have a role to play in minimizing that risk by keeping my child out of the yard.    There should be absolutely zero danger to my 4 year old from the dangerous animals in a zoo.   If there is a petting area,  I understand the risks.  But there's simply no rationale you can make that justifies access to that enclosure.  It is 100% incumbent on the zoo to prevent that eventuality. 

There wasn't "access" to the enclosure. The kid navigated 3 barriers - barriers that exceed the required protocols. The enclosure has been inspected by the Department of Agriculture twice a year for the last 38 years. Your 4 year old is in no danger from the animals at the zoo, as long as you play the role in minimizing risk to your child by keeping your eye on them. 

 

Your child will never be 100% safe from anything. 

[stevenaa]

Barriers that should not be penetrable by a 4 year old.   It's a ludicrous notion that a toddler should be able to get into that enclosure. It isn't about whether or not the mother should have prevented it.  That has no bearing on the simple fact that the zoo has an exhibit that can be accessed by a child.  Do you think that zoo will modify the safety barriers now?   I mean the Federal Government is ok with them as they were?   We all know the government should be the be all/ end all to determining what is safe.    The Zoo failed on two counts.   It failed the child and the Ape.   1 mishap in 38 years doesn't prove the barriers were sufficient.  It proves they weren't. 

[codeorama]

THIS whole issue is one of the reasons I refuse to take students on field trips. I usually teach World history but because a teacher left in the middle of the year, they moved me to US history and I was supposed to take the students on a field trip to DC.

NOPE.

No way.

No how.

 

I know how the kids act on a daily basis and I'm talking about 17 year old kids.

 

4 year olds have no sense.  

[Sticksboi05]

Kids have fallen into gorilla enclosures before – and the animals weren’t shot

 

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/30/kids-have-fallen-into-gorilla-enclosures-before-and-the-animals-werent-shot-5914137/#ixzz4AM0nPiK1

 

Levan Merrit, a five-year-old boy fell into the gorilla enclosure at Jersey Zoo in August 1986. The boy lost consciousness, but enormous silverback gorilla Jambo was labelled a ‘gentle giant’ for protecting him from other animals in the pen.

 

Jambo stood watch over the child. When the boy woke up and began to cry, the gorilla backed off long enough for the kid to be rescued. 

 

While in August 1995, a boy, three, was knocked out when he fell almost 20ft into a gorilla pit at Brookfield Zoo. Again, a gorilla – this time a female named Binti Jua – acted protectively towards the child. 

 

Onlookers were astounded to see the animal cradle the three-year-old into an embrace. She then carried him to an access gate where staff could retrieve him from the enclosure. 

 

Despite these similar cases, an animal expert said the zoo had little choice but to execute the gorilla. 

 

‘The fact they left the situation for 10 minutes before firing the final shot shows they would have tried everything they could to get the male gorilla to enter the inside enclosure away from the boy. In the footage I have seen the animal was clearly becoming more agitated and zoo officials need to make quick assessments.

 

‘Tranquillising the gorilla with a dart just simply wouldn’t have worked in this situation. ‘It would have taken up to 10 minutes to take affect and the animal may have become violent which would have had catastrophic consequences.’ 

[Zguy28]

There is footage online of the behavior of the gorilla. Yes, it was aggressive. Imagine the fallout if it ripped that kid limb from limb?

[Popeman38]

Barriers that should not be penetrable by a 4 year old.   It's a ludicrous notion that a toddler should be able to get into that enclosure. It isn't about whether or not the mother should have prevented it.  That has no bearing on the simple fact that the zoo has an exhibit that can be accessed by a child.  Do you think that zoo will modify the safety barriers now?   I mean the Federal Government is ok with them as they were?   We all know the government should be the be all/ end all to determining what is safe.    The Zoo failed on two counts.   It failed the child and the Ape.   1 mishap in 38 years doesn't prove the barriers were sufficient.  It proves they weren't. 

THIS is the reasoning that results in a pussified nation. 1 incident in 38 years is an exemplary safety record. You don't change protocols because of 1 incident. And lets not act like a 4 year old is incapable of problem solving. He literally told his mother he wanted to go in the enclosure. He intentionally navigated 3 barriers. Barriers that served to discourage millions of visitors over 38 years.

 

The barriers are not designed to prevent entry, they are designed to prevent exit. I could literally walk into the National Zoo and jump into the lion exhibit with minimal effort. The lions in the exhibit cannot jump out of the exhibit.  Do you want all zoo exhibits to be like the snake enclosure? A giant glass box that displays the snake but doesn't allow the snake to move about a semi-natural habitat?

 

Your acceptable level of risk is 0. Unfortunately for you, nothing in life is 0 risk. 

[codeorama]

Popeman, the problem is the main clientele for zoo's is kids.

yes, you make a good point about it not happening that often, but I know that elementary schools go to the zoo in my area every year. I've been there.  No way anyone can fall into anything.  Last time I went, I actually felt the experience was poor because everything was so far away.

 

I know parents now that take several kids with them to where ever they happen to be going. Having 100% surveillance on your kids is a hard thing to do.

I feel like I do an above average job with my son, but I know I could easily have died in child hood, not because I was a bad kid, but because my parents were more self absorbed than I was.