Dan T. Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 One time my mom got chased by an escaped ostrich at the zoo. Those things can be vicious. She outran that mutant beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 One time my mom got chased by an escaped ostrich at the zoo. Those things can be vicious. She outran that mutant beast. What's it like having Jackie Joyner-Kersee as your mom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage520 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I see a lot of people supporting the mother by pointing out that you only have but so much control over a 4 year old. I get that but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility. When I was a kid and hit a ball that broke the neighbors window, it was an accident but it was still my parents responsibility. That is why they paid for the window. Same here. There is a level of parental responsibility that seems lost these days. I see the level of responsibility that is required and want no part of it. That's why I don't have any kids. I agree with you to an extent. But at the same time, I don't think many who are showing support for the mother are trying to absolve her of all accountability. And even then, I don't think that part of accepting that responsibility is receiving threats, having all of your information put on blast to millions of people, and having your life turned completely upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 I see a lot of people supporting the mother by pointing out that you only have but so much control over a 4 year old. I get that but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility. When I was a kid and hit a ball that broke the neighbors window, it was an accident but it was still my parents responsibility. That is why they paid for the window. Same here. There is a level of parental responsibility that seems lost these days. I see the level of responsibility that is required and want no part of it. That's why I don't have any kids. This is an interesting take to me. I hear what you are saying 100%. I'm ultra protective of my kid (see my other thread) and I watch him like a hawk. However, I know parents who are not as much and I think back to my childhood. We didn't have child car seats. I rode on trips sleeping in the back window of a 73 Plymouth Duster. I remember being thrown to the floor once or twice. I remember playing outside. I remember riding my bike through the neighborhood. I live in the same neighborhood I grew up in. I do not allow my son to play outside, ride his bike throughout the neighborhood, times are different. I'm sure some on this site will criticize my overprotectiveness. However, look at where we are as a society. Its crazy to me that a 4 year old was able to fall into the enclosure of a dangerous animal. I think there's an expectation that the child should not be able to get in. We KNOW that kids do really stupid stuff. I agree with what you are saying about a lack of accountability/responsibility today. Totally true. But at the same time, people are nuts. The attacks on the child and parent is crazy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I do agree that the attacks on the mother are wrong for the most part. I think she is a bad parent. But that doesn't mean her life should be threatened. Just wanted to make sure my position was clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Of course the mother is a terrible parent. But not for the lack of supervision of the kid at the zoo.. She is a terrible parent because she is raising the kid in Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Accidents happen and the Mom shouldn't be threatened for her life. That being said, most parents can keep "let my kid fall into a gorilla cage" off of their "**** my bad" list. I also have to wonder though why so many zoos have places for people to sneak through where it wasn't an act of God-like scenario. In the end, it's sad but it's not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 What's it like having Jackie Joyner-Kersee as your mom? More like Barry Sanders. She zigged and it zagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 We now live in a time when someone MUST be held at fault if something bad happens. The people at fault, as deemed by the masses, must be publicly shamed, threatened and often endangered. I blame the lawyers. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 It's hard to tell if Harambe was protecting the child or setting him up for something sinister. But the zoo made the right decision. A tranquilizer dart could've taken several minutes before it took effect on the 450 pound gorilla. Plus its obvious Harambe was in a bad place mentally during this event. A tranquilizer dart could've potentially sent him into a violent frenzy. Hopefully Harambe's remains can be used for research or to save other silverback gorillas. Sad that an endangered animal had to die, but it was 100% the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 How do you guys feel about the dad's criminal history being posted online? Relevant or irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Here's a passage from a gorilla zookeeper in Florida. https://www.facebook.com/amanda.odonoughue?fref=nf&pnref=story I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon. I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations. Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by. Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc. While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans. In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting. I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean. I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes. Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd. Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid! They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well. Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal. I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit. I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around. *me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage520 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 How do you guys feel about the dad's criminal history being posted online? Relevant or irrelevant? Was it just his? Thought I had heard she had a rap sheet as well. But that was also via one of the numerous conversations on social networking this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Was it just his? Thought I had heard she had a rap sheet as well. But that was also via one of the numerous conversations on social networking this morning. Oh, I dont know, that could be. I just heard about the dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage520 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Gotcha. In principle, I don't think it SHOULD matter. But I also know it's impossible for to NOT matter. If that makes sense. For a lot of folks serving jury duty in the court of public opinion, those criminal records will absolutely serve as evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The parent is not absolved of responsibility.. just like mine wasn't when i got my head stuck between some bars at a shopping center and they had to call the fire dept. to pry me out. Now, someone's house could have burned down... and even if it didn't, it COULD have, and in this day and age my mom would have been the worst mom on planet earth until tomorrow's chance to wag our finger comes along. Fact is it was my fault. I stuck my head in there after being told not to do it. I was about 4 or so and she told me that if i stuck my head in there it would get stuck. the second i had the chance, I did it. Me. And it took a heartbeat... and another heartbeat for me to figure out my head was stuck and i couldn't get out. But it isn't a federal friggin' case, it is not negligence or anything else they may want to throw at these parents. (Their background and past is irrelevant. A 4 year old acted like a 4 year old. Period.) Most of us have a similar story.. although the overwhelming majority of our experiences do not end in a gorilla being killed to protect us from ourselves. But all of us either almost got hit by a car, or almost fell off of this or that or something else we were not supposed to be on. And i'd bet plenty of us did it either in full view of our parents and / or after being told not to. And frankly, as a parent who's taken kids to the zoo.. in their shoes i'd be shocked to find out how easily a kid could get in there, because it didn't take much. To me that sounds like very VERY poor design bordering on negligence. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Here's a passage from a gorilla zookeeper in Florida. https://www.facebook.com/amanda.odonoughue?fref=nf&pnref=story So it's the crowd's fault. Hell yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The parent(s) are going to sue so get ready for that. It's not their fault they didn't see their kids climb through an electric fence, a guard bar, and over the concrete barrier, only to drop into a moot. The gorilla must have been scratching his head like "this is for me, who threw the doll into my play pen?" The crazy thing is the gorilla looked like he was guarding the kid, well that after he dragged him around a little bit. Harambe even pulled up the kids pants, so he was more of a parent than his parent(s). For his efforts the lovable gorilla got gunned down by the same people that took care of him. All of it was done in front of the same audience that paid to see him. So there you have it, a happy ending. I mean damn you don't have fast acting tranquilizers? Everybody is saying save the little black boy, until a gorilla like George Zimmerman comes into the picture. Uh huh yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 That cheetah picture above reminds me of a story. We went to the national zoo back when they just put in the cheetah enclosure. I was there with my sister, her husband and my nephew who was about 2. There was a good size crowd around the enclosure being that this was a new exhibit. My nephew was out of his stroller and decided to take off running. I ran after him. When I caught him, my brother-in-law said "Look!" I looked up and the cheetahs had sprinted across their enclosure and were looking at my nephew. From their perspective there was a small animal that had been separated from the herd and their instinct was to chase after it. I picked up my nephew and moved him left and right and the cheetahs' heads followed him like a tennis ball. And that's how my nephew got the nickname Cheetah bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Gotcha. In principle, I don't think it SHOULD matter. But I also know it's impossible for to NOT matter. If that makes sense. For a lot of folks serving jury duty in the court of public opinion, those criminal records will absolutely serve as evidence Their pictures are now online too. Sad to say, but my prediction is that some time in the next 24 hours the race card will be played by the "defenders of the parents" faction in response to the shame card being played against the parents by the "defenders of the Gorilla" faction. EDIT: We've got the first reverse race-baiting article out now. Wow. http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/05/31/after-screams-of-racism-over-gorilla-being-shot-for-a-white-kid-meet-his-parents-hint-they-arent-white-346532 EDIT 2: Now we got a direct race baiting article: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-racism-found-cincinnati-zoo-saga-article-1.2655860 Maybe I should have predicted 24 minutes instead of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 So it's the crowd's fault. Hell yes. That's not what I gathered from that post. I think she was referring to all the screaming and yelling and how it was having an adverse effect on Haramb'e already fragile state of mind. It encourages a few of them to grow up and become veterinarians or the such. That is important. and hopefully discourages children from growing up to be like that asshole dentist in Minnesota. good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Sometimes tragedies happen and it is no one's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 That cheetah picture above reminds me of a story. We went to the national zoo back when they just put in the cheetah enclosure. I was there with my sister, her husband and my nephew who was about 2. There was a good size crowd around the enclosure being that this was a new exhibit. My nephew was out of his stroller and decided to take off running. I ran after him. When I caught him, my brother and law said "Look!" I looked up and the cheetahs had sprinted across their enclosure and were looking at my nephew. From their perspective there was a small animal that had been separated from the herd and their instinct was to chase after it. I picked up my nephew and moved him left and right and the cheetahs' heads followed him like a tennis ball. And that's how my nephew got the nickname Cheetah bait. A kid fell into the cheetah pit at the Cleveland Zoo a couple years ago. Not to self, keep my kids away from Ohio zoos. Or Ohio, in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I wonder if it was a white gorilla, would they still have shot it? Too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.