I hope tonight's game erases any illusion about the "talent" level on this team.

[moondog]

the cap penalty had nothing to do with the following signings....

 

1) Josh Morgan

2) Chris Chester

3) Wil Montgomery

4) Kory Lichtensteiger

5) Fred Davis (re-signed)

6) Santana moss (re-signed)

7) Stephen Bowen

8) Brandon Meriweather

9) Josh Wilson

 

Garcon was a very good signing...Cofield was a good signing....that's it....2 hits, 9 misses

 

Just stop yourself right there man. Give it a rest. 

 

1) Josh Morgan led us in receptions last year and many on here thought he would be a decent number 2 heading into this year given he was finally healthy. Hell, given what I saw tonight I still think he's a better receiver than Hankerson and I'm a little surprised Hankerson wasn't the one riding the bench. He is overpaid but it's not like the guy is Brandon Lloyd 2.0 

2) Chester has played very well here up until this year and if I'm not mistaken he has not missed a single game. Is it any surprise his play is slipping given his age and he's at the end of his contract. I'd say he's played up to the contract or close. 

3) Wil Montgomery played great for a couple years and absolutely earned his contract. He's basically playing for peanuts anyway as far as a starting Center goes. Yeah we need to get better there NOW but at the time of his contract everyone was very happy to keep him around and it was an excellent value. 

4) Pretty much everything I said about Montgomery. Lichtensteiger was arguably our best linemen before he hurt his knee (that year, obviously not anymore).

5) Davis was also signed for a very modest contract. Pretty much everyone was happy to have him back and no one knew Reed was going to be the player he is. 

6) Do you have ANY explanation why you would list Moss on here? Guy was close to double digit touchdowns last year and continues to be a clutch target. Not sure how you can put much blame on any of the receivers for lack of production this year. 

7) Man Bowen was a stud his first couple years here. Another guy that is now getting up in age and toward the end of his contract. Noticing a trend? All of these guys have played well for us and earned their contract but it should come as no surprise that as they near the end of the contract and reach an older age, their play has declined. The problem is we haven't been able to replace them with no money/picks.

8) I will give you this one. With the exception of the fact that he was basically "Plan C" after the cap penalty. 

9) Josh Wilson actually has, believe it or not, played a couple decent seasons for us. But he has certainly sucked this year as well as in previous years. 

[markmills67]

Redskins 140 49'rs 5 , that's the total yards for each team the last 10 minutes or so of the 1st half, I then go to bed(from England and work in morning) thinking we can go on and win this game, I get up this morning check the score and see we got 37 total yards in 2nd half, I have followed the Skins for 20 odd years but enough is enough, Shanahan get yourself, your son and Haslett the hell out NOW you complete and utter waste of f-----g space.

[Dark Acre]

Time to spend some draft picks (2nd & 3rd anyway) on some OL.  Maybe RT isn't there, but there are certainly OGs who would start from day 1.

[lee_scfc_rule]

Upon seeing the score this morning, I was expecting a debacle of a performance when i watched the condensed game on NFL.com. However, this cant be further than the truth.

 

We were giving 110% and can honestly say that should have been leading easily, especially after the TO early into the 2nd half. I thought we played well on Defence and Offence until this point.

 

Standout player: Riley jr. had an awesome game IMO and was everywhere

 

In the grandsscheme of things I would get rid of the coaching staff and build again. We are too inconsistent but this game for me proves we DO HAVE THE TALENT in SOME AREAS.

 

HTTR

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Just stop yourself right there man. Give it a rest. 

 

1) Josh Morgan led us in receptions last year and many on here thought he would be a decent number 2 heading into this year given he was finally healthy. Hell, given what I saw tonight I still think he's a better receiver than Hankerson and I'm a little surprised Hankerson wasn't the one riding the bench. He is overpaid but it's not like the guy is Brandon Lloyd 2.0 

2) Chester has played very well here up until this year and if I'm not mistaken he has not missed a single game. Is it any surprise his play is slipping given his age and he's at the end of his contract. I'd say he's played up to the contract or close. 

3) Wil Montgomery played great for a couple years and absolutely earned his contract. He's basically playing for peanuts anyway as far as a starting Center goes. Yeah we need to get better there NOW but at the time of his contract everyone was very happy to keep him around and it was an excellent value. 

4) Pretty much everything I said about Montgomery. Lichtensteiger was arguably our best linemen before he hurt his knee (that year, obviously not anymore).

5) Davis was also signed for a very modest contract. Pretty much everyone was happy to have him back and no one knew Reed was going to be the player he is. 

6) Do you have ANY explanation why you would list Moss on here? Guy was close to double digit touchdowns last year and continues to be a clutch target. Not sure how you can put much blame on any of the receivers for lack of production this year. 

7) Man Bowen was a stud his first couple years here. Another guy that is now getting up in age and toward the end of his contract. Noticing a trend? All of these guys have played well for us and earned their contract but it should come as no surprise that as they near the end of the contract and reach an older age, their play has declined. The problem is we haven't been able to replace them with no money/picks.

8) I will give you this one. With the exception of the fact that he was basically "Plan C" after the cap penalty. 

9) Josh Wilson actually has, believe it or not, played a couple decent seasons for us. But he has certainly sucked this year as well as in previous years. 

 

I'm not sure what you're watching.

[skinsmania123]

Then what happened at the end of last year?  Everyone else in the league just suddenly collectively sucked for the last 7 weeks of the season?

 

They did it last year, they are putting up a shameful effort this year.  That falls on coaching. 

No it does not.  The play of Robert is completely different then last year.  I am so tired of people saying he did not sit in the pocket last year.  He did.  The QB is the most important position on the field.  Just ask the Packers without Rodgers.  Robert was spot on in passing last year, and yes, he was a threat to run, but he made good decisions and spot on throws.  That inspires a team.  The Skins are the same team as last year with a QB who is playing, very, very poorly. And if he does not get his head straight he is not going to make it in this league. 

 

I have said it multiple times on here. I am a Hypnotist for a living.  We are run by are subconscious beliefs, attitudes, and they translate into feelings.  Our emotions drive our behaviors.  Last year when he was injured I said, they can make him back into the bionic man but they cannot make him feel, as we say in our industry, "safe" without releasing the emotions around the injuries. And he may very well do this internally but I think he is unaware and is completely baffled by his own play.  The guy we saw last year is legit, but he is not emotionally back yet. Plus you have the injury from Baylor that is part of the equation as well from a subconscious level.  So you cannot compare him to Peterson.  Plus all the practice in the world and preparedness is not going to translate into "safety" from his subconscious which is running the show.   It does not matter what is happening consciously.   It is just how the mind works.

I'm not saying we have the most talented offense, but there's no way in.hell we're THIS bad. Is the Rams more talented on.offense than we are? Are the Giants? Are the Seahawks anymore talented on offense?

I think we have the talent to compete, but we fall short in the coaching department on.both sides of the ball.

No the Rams are not better but they are ready to pony up to a great draft pick courtesy of the Washington Redskins.

[justice98]

If you want to lay it on the coaching, then you also have to lay it on the over-valuing of the player talent.  Some of it is due to coach-speak I am sure, and limited resources.  You can't really go to the media and say your talent level is not up to par, but we heard rave reviews of Barry Cofield in the offseason, even though we all knew he is not the prototype nose tackle, but we all bought into it when Haslet said "I think Cofield can be best nose tackle in the NFL"

 

Hahahahaha.....No. He is average at best, We see him make 1-2 standout plays a game and that is the new standard for a GREAT player.

 

There is a reason Cofield and Bowen were nothing more than backups on their teams.  They probably are great DEPTH players, but signed to be THE GUYS to anchor a D-line? Laughable.   It is probably the best we could do with that salary cap penalty. We had to scour other team's roster depth and hope we could roll with them until the team could start making actual moves.

 

Cofield was a starter for the Giants, a starter on both SB teams, in fact.  Bowen was a backup.  

[RandyHolt]

I think we have talent.

 

I more question the assembling said talent. Specifically, the OL. Our OL's talent is mobility. But time and time again, their legs are not used. We get abused in short yardage and the passing game over and over. It's hard to watch, especially because our play calls play into our OLs weaknesses.

 

It is not a lack of talent.  It's a lack of a GM, someone to tell Mike that defenses have evolved and now aggressively attack, and that his vision of what our OL should be, is out dated.

 

If we had a Ben or Luck as a QB, someone built to take a pounding, maybe it would work. That is not RG3's game. And it is killing our team, since we are built to win games on offense.

[Tyron Biggums]

Out of likes.

 

 

I posted this in another thread:

 

There is going to be a rebuild if Shanny stays or not. I want him gone the main reason being he has corrupted the chain of command by being GM and HC and surrounding himself with friends, family members, and yes men. Until the GM situation is fixed this franchise is doomed.

[SJValleySkinz]

Cofield was a starter for the Giants, a starter on both SB teams, in fact. Bowen was a backup.

Cofield was the best 4-3 nose tackle in the NFL. Their ends got all the pub but he was the one that t'd up QBs for them.

[Brokenstriker]

huh ... why isn't Tanard on the list of bad signings?

[PerryMason]

the cap penalty had nothing to do with the following signings....

 

1) Josh Morgan

2) Chris Chester

3) Wil Montgomery

4) Kory Lichtensteiger

5) Fred Davis (re-signed)

6) Santana moss (re-signed)

7) Stephen Bowen

8) Brandon Meriweather

9) Josh Wilson

 

Garcon was a very good signing...Cofield was a good signing....that's it....2 hits, 9 misses

 

I actually think Merriweather has played solid all year other than getting a suspension because football is weak sauce now.

[Sticksboi05]

Gibbs took this joke franchise to the playoffs twice in four years. Think about that. 

 

Even won a playoff game.  That 2005 win vs. TB looks more impressive by the day.

[91fanwagon]

I cant sit here and say that we have the most talented team, that wouldn't be true, but I do believe we have enough talent to be much better than our record shows, and I believe that the biggest fault lies in our coaching and team leadership at the coordinator/coach level.  On offense we have no identity, problem with that is we should be RUN first team, that's our strength whether it's the stretch with Morris or the option with RG3 and Morris.  Our first 3 and out Morris gets no touches??  At this point I would love for every 1st down to be a run play, I don't care if its considered predictable, i'd consider it our brand of football, period.  And whats up with taking Morris out near the redzone? This isnt a knock on Helu's talent level, I get that he's a better reciever out of the backfield and it sets up nicely sometimes for the HB draw, but with Morris in there, you have a more credible run threat and the oppositions front has to play more gap conservative rather than just all out rush RG3.  Secondly, I did feel that Gruden was making fun of the number of wr bubble screens called, while I do agree with a previous poster that the bubble screen could be a good deterrent to the pass rush, I also dont like that it seemed like the play call coming in from Kyle, that many times, if it was something Robert was seeing at the line and then audibled to, I'd be more ok with it. Finally I look at a guy like Aldrick Robinson, and wonder why hasnt anyone taught him to run a route beyond just go deep young man, lol.  I mean seriously even if he gets open deep how confident are we in him pulling it in, its a 50-50 proposition still. Also if dude is so fast then why isnt he getting an opportunity to run back kicks?  These guys have been playing this game for most of their lives, and have made it to the NFL, how hard is it, follow your blockers, and then break to open space, or as Niles Paul believes ... follow your blockers until you run into them??  LOL.  Either way, yeah we may not have the most talented team, but I do believe we have the talent to compete, at least on offense, defense could use a couple of pieces in all honesty. That being said the coaches arent upholding there end either, and some may point to the offensive stats to defend Kyle, hey I like his playbook, and he does some good things, but he doesnt have a feel for the game, how do you not hand off the ball to Alfred Morris on the first play of the game on a frigid night in November is beyond me.

[BraunMan92]

Even won a playoff game.  That 2005 win vs. TB looks more impressive by the day.

 

Especially considering how our defense played in that game and all season.

[Taylor703]

Especially considering how our defense played in that game and all season.

Unless I'm mistaken that 05' Redskins defense was pretty damn good...

[DC9]

I love ya, Mikey... but I'm going to disagree.

 

We have talent on this team.  It's how the talent is used that is the problem. 

 

It's who was selected to be on the team vs the practice squad. 

 

It's the dog house.

 

It's the QB not making the throws or getting the ball out.

 

It's the OC not getting the QB into a rythm to make those throws.

 

It's the weak mindset of this team.

 

But it's not the talent.  There is talent.

Unless I'm mistaken that 05' Redskins defense was pretty damn good...

 

I'll go to my grave saying that when Los dropped that pick 6, he dropped a ring.

 

We would've beaten Green Bay and Pittsburgh that year.  That defense was outstanding.  The offense was poopoo but all it took was 17 points back then.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

 

The 'Skins are simply not a good team. They have a few pieces worth building around, and the rest are expendable. I don't expect this point to be debated after tonight.

I completely agree and anyone who thinks that 36 million over 2 years and limited blue chip draft picks didn't handicap this team they are insane.  The best course of action is to keep Shannahan and keep building.  Turning a franchise from Zorn into a winner ain't gonna happen in a few seasons.  Don't forget the 49ers were AWFUL for a long time and during that time they stockpiled 1st round picks and keep on getting better and better.  Finally they added the FINAL piece of the puzzle, and for them that was a coach, and they started winning.  The skins aren't to that point yet!

That being said the coaches arent upholding there end either, and some may point to the offensive stats to defend Kyle, hey I like his playbook, and he does some good things, but he doesnt have a feel for the game, how do you not hand off the ball to Alfred Morris on the first play of the game on a frigid night in November is beyond me.

no joke, it seems like any team that is built around running the football would LOVE those conditions and try to pound on the other team.  Instead the REDskins come out and try to reinvent the wheel.  I guess it's better than run run pass punt but still...

[Mahons21]

I love ya, Mikey... but I'm going to disagree.

 

We have talent on this team.  It's how the talent is used that is the problem. 

 

It's who was selected to be on the team vs the practice squad. 

 

It's the dog house.

 

It's the QB not making the throws or getting the ball out.

 

It's the OC not getting the QB into a rythm to make those throws.

 

It's the weak mindset of this team.

 

But it's not the talent.  There is talent

 

Who was selected to be on the practice squad v who makes the team has very little bearing on the outcome of the season.  Perfect example being Nick Williams.

 

The Doug house?  You mean Fred I don't care about this team Davis?  That's why we're not doing well?

 

QB not making the right throws or getting the balls out on time speaks to the talent!

 

OC not getting the Qb in a rhythm?  You mean with short throws like Kyle tried last night?  You can't run a short throws when teams press you because no on is scared of being beat deep.

 

The weak mindset?  Give me a break.

 

The majority of the Redskins woes are due to the level of talent, anyone who can't see that is blind.  Shannhan has managed personnel quite poorly, and ultimately the GM shanny will get the coach Shanny fired.

 

I just hope our next regime learns that you HAVE to build from the inside out.  Plain and simple, enough sexy picks, draft me some guards and some interior d-linemen, and I don't mean drafting 3-5 of them in rounds 5 and past, I mean actually investing in the lines.

[Taylor703]

I love ya, Mikey... but I'm going to disagree.

We have talent on this team. It's how the talent is used that is the problem.

It's who was selected to be on the team vs the practice squad.

It's the dog house.

It's the QB not making the throws or getting the ball out.

It's the OC not getting the QB into a rythm to make those throws.

It's the weak mindset of this team.

But it's not the talent. There is talent.

I'll go to my grave saying that when Los dropped that pick 6, he dropped a ring.

We would've beaten Green Bay and Pittsburgh that year. That defense was outstanding. The offense was poopoo but all it took was 17 points back then.

Didn't Brunell throw for like 30 yards against Tampa? lol. That defense physically beat teams up. I really miss Gregg with three G's.

[Drex]

The bottom line is that the Redskins were competitive with the 49ers, trailing only 10-6 as late as the third quarter. They were in the game despite missing two of their top three pass-catchers this season (Hankerson and Reed).

 

The Redskins have some talent, but they're downfall in 2013 has been impacted by poor coaching as well.

 

Improve in this area, and you'll immediately see improvement even if a ton of talent isn't acquired during the offseason.

[CrypticVillain]

There is a reason Cofield and Bowen were nothing more than backups on their teams.

You were on the money with all your points until you said this. Barry Cofield started almost every game he has played in since 06.

[DC9]

Typical dribble from Mahons, with maybe one or two decent points and a megaphone  

 

I don't disagree with you about how you'd like for the next regime to approach the building of the team.  But those were examples (in terms of how players are used).  It goes much deeper than that.  Not just player selection to make the 53 (though for me, that's part of it) but player selection for the active roster and how those players are used.

 

In selecting the 53, this regime hasn't really given a lot of young guys a chance to contribute nor have they properly groomed them on teams.  A couple of exceptions being Niles Paul and Perry Riley.  But we could be doing better.  You mean to tell me that Will Compton or Minifield couldn't be contributing on teams?  Why the heck is Evan Royster even on the roster other than to keep him away from the NYG?  That's crap.

 

In selecting the active roster for game day... we have guys that won't see the field and then we have a guy or two go down (recent example - the Eagles game) and we are running a spread formation (with our season on the line) of Helu, Garcon, Paulsen, DY, and Paul.  That's unsat.  Obviously an isolated incident, but unsat nonetheless.  And it's happened throughout and there really is no method to building or grooming.  I appreciate the "if you practice well you play" but it obviously hasn't worked.

 

And in putting players in the best position to win... there are hundreds of examples a game.  Why certain players only do certain things.  Why we don't have any creativity or creativy formations with guys like Compton as an extra linemen (until recently).  Why we don't replace guys for bad play (Polumbus - Chester) just for the sake of continuity.  We we don't put Helu and Morris in the backfield at the same time.  Why other teams claim to know what we are doing.  Again, crap. 

[JoeWolf990]

The biggest difference between the 49ers and the Redskins is coaching. Before the game virtually every analyst gave us the edge at the skill.positions but gave them the edge when it came to coaching.

there was no one saying this, be serious here.

Look at the 49ers team. Great OLine, strong running game, and a top 2 tight end. They only lack in WR, and they do have a terrible Offensive Coordinator but thats one of the more talented teams in the NFL.

And lets not discuss that defense, which is another level.

[Commander PK]

the cap penalty had nothing to do with the following signings....

 

Garcon was a very good signing...Cofield was a good signing....that's it....2 hits, 9 misses

 

Perhaps not....but it could have everything to do with why they are still starting, which is the point I have been repeatedly trying to make.  Do you think with cap space Wilson is still here?  Davis?  Hall? (Even though Hall has had a good year).  

 

The cap penalty is why many of these positions have not been upgraded.  We can't afford to upgrade them.

I bet Eric Winston and Aqib Talib would have been Redskins without the penalty.  

 

If we knew about the penalty ahead of time, I bet Robert is not even here and Cousins is our starting QB.  No way they give up all those firsts if they knew what was about to happen.