Next Day Thread: I Can't Think of a Witty Giant Pun

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s not entirely true and revisionist history to make a point because you hate EB.  

Can you please stop acting like my dislike of EB is personal. I thought he was a terrible hire and he's been a terrible play caller.

 

That's it.

 

I'm also not making a case for Turner being some genius OC. He was just better than EB by a mile.

 

Yesterdays game, how do you continue to try and force these slow developing plays that get your QB killed?

 

Everyone but EB knows that Wink is going to blitz and do it often. Still, 5 man protections until the 4rth quarter. 

 

It's idiotic play calling.

[KDawg]

I can’t believe I’m going to say this but our running game and game plans were better under Turner. He used Howell in the right way against Dallas as well. 

 

Turner’s issue was situational playcalling. 

[mattsb84]

I admit I haven't been watching this team much this year, but simply reading the stat lines each week (sorry I wont subject myself to watching this slop)..are there seriously no available OL free agents or PS squad players that can be worked out/signed/poached that would be better than what the commanders currently have? They are on pace to set the single season record for most sacks allowed and they cant run the ball. Maybe I've missed it but, have they been exploring trades/fa/etc? Doing absolutly nothing seems...odd?

 

As Kdawg has mentioned previously, Howell will be a Patrick Ramsey clone by years end at this rate. 

 

 

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

I don’t see fans turning on a top 5 qb pick for the new regime after 6 games. 
 

I def see us “overspending” on at least one offensive lineman this offseason

You must be new here.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

@Conn has pointed out a few times, that it was because of the sale and contractual issues. 

 

Still, losing Matsko for Wharton is a decline. Need to shift Castilo back to OL today.

There was something else too.  I can’t recall why but Wharton was away from the team for months.  Unless I’m mis-remembering. 

[samy316]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s not entirely true and revisionist history to make a point because you hate EB.  

EB has had one game and 2 quarters of the offense looking like a well-runned machine.  Except for that, this offense has looked bad at times, and truly awful in at least 2 games this year (Bills & Giants).  I’m not going to say who was a better OC between EB or Scott Turner, but for me EB is turning into a gigantic disappointment the more I see of him.  He’s not calling plays to help his young QB out, and his play calling is leading our young QB to be killed time and time again with all these dropbacks.  He’s starting to make me realize why KC let him go, and why no team has offered him an HC job, with the amount of times he’s been interviewed.  He’s stubborn and late to adjusting.  We come out flat on offense WAY too often, and our offense contributes to the holes we dig ourselves in when we get behind.  EB is quickly becoming a liability, not an asset.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I can’t believe I’m going to say this but our running game and game plans were better under Turner. He used Howell in the right way against Dallas as well. 

 

Turner’s issue was situational playcalling. 

I don't see much difference in the offenses. Neither OC could scheme guys open or were very good at creating mismatches and creating easy completions on early downs to establish a rhythm. We still see receivers too close together, nobody getting open, etc. I refuse to believe an offense with McLaurin, Dotson, Samuel, Thomas all running routes and none can get open. That's on the OC.

 

The one thing EB has over Turner is that the red zone offense appears better, largely because he doesn't call the random trick play that loses 7 yards when we get 1st and goal.

[justice98]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Turners offense always had guys running open, just no QB to get the ball to them on time.

 

That's a big difference. Turner also used motion and disguised plays better and was quicker to adjust than EB.

 

I've always believed it's not all that difficult to scheme people open in today's NFL.  There were always guys open with Turner.  I think EB calls plays for the OL he wants, not the OL he has. It nonsense to think Mclaurin, Dotson, and Samuel can't get open.  But this OL, young QB, and stubborn OC are conspiring to waste our resources on the outside. 

[Koolblue13]

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, samy316 said:

EB has had one game and 2 quarters of the offense looking like a well-runned machine.  Except for that, this offense has looked bad at times, and truly awful in at least 2 games this year (Bills & Giants).  I’m not going to say who was a better OC between EB or Scott Turner, but for me EB is turning into a gigantic disappointment the more I see of him.  He’s not calling plays to help his young QB out, and his play calling is leading our young QB to be killed time and time again with all these dropbacks.  He’s starting to make me realize why KC let him go, and why no team has offered him an HC job, with the amount of times he’s been interviewed.  He’s stubborn and late to adjusting.  We come out flat on offense WAY too often, and our offense contributes to the holes we dig ourselves in when we get behind.  EB is quickly becoming a liability, not an asset.

To your point, we came out for the first drive of the 2nd half, where most good coaches will come up with something to get the offense going and we went 3 and out while giving up a sack and committing a penalty. That is pathetic. No way ownership can be pleased with that kind of production and then having their team leaders coming out saying they're tired of all the bull****. 

[Warhead36]

We don't scheme up easy completions on early downs. Look at the good offenses. Its not about getting 20+ yarders, those are mostly situational and reliant on the defense breaking down. The good offenses get easy open receivers for 5-7 yards on 1st down. We don't do that. We have too many slow developing pass plays on early downs resulting in incompletions or sacks. Then we run on every 2nd and long which is usually like a 1 or 2 yard at most. Then 3rd and long, obvious pass down, almost always results in a sack or pressure. 

 

Look at the Giants two TDs yesterday. They created mismatches by having our LB in coverage and attacked. We don't do that. We don't move McLaurin around. We don't try to isolate Gibson in space(say what you will about him but he is a good receiver and can do damage in space). Everything we do is just so bland and vanilla. 

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I think EB calls plays for the OL he wants, not the OL he has.

I agree with this....EB has his WR's running longer routes and before they turn their heads or make a cut Howell is on his ass. 

[Riggo#44]

Should be a good listen, regardless of how you feel about the Junkies

 

[RandyHolt]

Questions, why didn't Jahan catch it, and did Sam see Logan wide open for the TD right behind him?

 

WR's have to re-contort their bodies on bad throws and I for one prefer to hold the QB more responsible than the WR for the "drop" many times more than others ever dare do. Yes the QB can be at fault times too.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Riggo#44]

Just now, RandyHolt said:

Questions, why didn't Jahan catch it, and did Sam see Logan wide open for the TD right behind him?

 

No, because he was running for his life.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Riggo#44

[DJHJR86]

Allen just said he still believes in Rivera & Del Rio.

[Warhead36]

The throw wasn't perfect, but it was around Dotson's shoulder and its not like he really had to reach that much or dive for it or anything. It hit him square in the mitts. You're a 1st round pick NFL WR. You have to make that play there, especially after Howell did such a great job evading pressure and giving you that chance.

 

That's the issue with this team. We just don't have many guys who can make "THAT" play. 

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

Allen just said he still believes in Rivera & Del Rio.

Of course he'll say that publicly. He's a class act and team leader. He's not gonna throw anyone under the bus publicly.

 

Privately I bet he loathes playing for such losers. But he's a pro's pro and he'll put his pads on and go to work to the best of his ability every day.

 

He deserves so much better than this.

[RandyHolt]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

No, because he was running for his life.

All game, yet again

 

But he had a momentary chance without pressure in his face to see Logan IMO since he had actually bought himself time. I don't blame him for not seeing Logan mind you as I assume he assumed he was about to go CLOBBERED as he slowed to turn to throw and Jahan was open.

https://x.com/BenKrimmel/status/1716194895361130789?s=20

Edited October 23, 2023 by RandyHolt

[IrepDC]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Can you please stop acting like my dislike of EB is personal. I thought he was a terrible hire and he's been a terrible play caller.

 

That's it.

 

I'm also not making a case for Turner being some genius OC. He was just better than EB by a mile.

 

Yesterdays game, how do you continue to try and force these slow developing plays that get your QB killed?

 

Everyone but EB knows that Wink is going to blitz and do it often. Still, 5 man protections until the 4rth quarter. 

 

It's idiotic play calling.

 

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

These posts are funny but I wholeheartedly disagree. The things people are calling for our offense to do, we have done. I understand the nature of our fans but film study doesn't back the EB attacks. Claiming Turner was better than EB confirms that this is typical extremism and shock jock ES banter for me. EB runs circles around Turner. 

[samy316]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

To your point, we came out for the first drive of the 2nd half, where most good coaches will come up with something to get the offense going and we went 3 and out while giving up a sack and committing a penalty. That is pathetic. No way ownership can be pleased with that kind of production and then having their team leaders coming out saying they're tired of all the bull****. 

 

I'm going to say something that might sound conspiratorial, but I'm not trying a conspiracy theorist here:  I think that EB knows damn well that he has no shot at becoming an HC here next year, so he's trying to audition to NFL teams as a first time play caller, regardless of the results that entail here.  I think that EB is calling games like he's auditioning for future NFL jobs, and not calling plays to help this team win games.  He's been way too stubborn and slow to adjust, to make me believe that he's looking out for our young QB's best interests.  How do you explain all the dropbacks with the slow-developing routes, with a historically awful O-Line?  Howell is on pace to match David Carr's sack total of 72 sacks by Week 12 or 13.  He's not going to survive being hit this many times, yet our pass-happy OC clearly hasn't gotten the memo to call a game where the ball gets out quicker, and to draw up quick hitters, except for that game against the Eagles.

 

EB is calling games like he wants to prove to the world that his scheme works, instead of trying to win games.  His scheme might work with a better O-Line and Pat Mahommes, but we have neither.  The insistence to dropback so many times is borderline unforgivable.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Another not discussed fact, we went virtually the entire off-season without an OL coach.  We dismissed Masko due to philosophical differences. Then we didn’t hire one for ages, I think until training camp.  And the guy we did hire was away from the team for whatever reason for months.  
 

Maybe that was a bit of a mistake?

That’s what I meant by Ron fumbling the OL coach position.  While I do think there is a clear talent deficiency on the line, there are too many times where it just appears guys have no idea who to block.  That’s coaching or these guys are just dumbasses.

[goskins10]

So that was a disaster. D played well enough to win but that's not saying much since they were playing one of he worst offences in the NFL missing a lot of pieces. I personally believe Teddy B is better than Daniel J but that's just one back-up is better than the other. Offense was a joke. I get the NY D is thier strength, but cmon, why do we keep trying to same **** over and over again no matter how bad it fails? And where are our WRs? Is Terry the only one who can get open? 

 

It honestly looks to me like they don't even try to game plan for a team. They play the first half then they put a few plays in for the 2nd half and hope. 

 

I still beleive there is a lot of talent on this team. They need someone to bring it together. I really hoped Ron and Co would do that this year. And I had high hopes for EB. He started off pretty good (better than some gave him credit for), but it seems he is a one trick pony. He has one game plan and one game plan only. There have been some mental lapses by players but yesterday was 100% on the coaches. 

 

I am still Ok that they hired EB but no need to consider him for HC. I liked him to start but again it seems he has one game plan. Where are the screens? Roll outs? Draws? RPOs? Slow that rush down. Instead he stands Sam like a statue and lets them tee of on him, or he calls that stupid off tackle play that runs right into the teeth of the D - I think every 2nd down has been this play. 

 

I saw somewhere people were concerned about turning the nentire thing over in one season Happens all the time in the NFL and other sports. Unless talent wins out and this teams start to win despite the coaching, Ron an the entire staff will be gone after the season, or possibly once we are officially eliminated from the playoffs (mathmetically not common sense wise which is now). Good by me. A good young coachging staff can bring this talenttogether while fixing the glaring holes still open, like O line. The players will come out actually excited! 

 

Ok, didn't really say anything that hasn't been said but needed to rant. 

[RandyHolt]

38 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The throw wasn't perfect, but it was around Dotson's shoulder and its not like he really had to reach that much or dive for it or anything. It hit him square in the mitts. You're a 1st round pick NFL WR. You have to make that play there, especially after Howell did such a great job evading pressure and giving you that chance.

 

That's the issue with this team. We just don't have many guys who can make "THAT" play. 

It's ok to say the throw was terrible.

 

It was a 18 yard pass right in front of him to an open receiver after he cleared pressure - no one in between. It was a hard throw running to his left sure but at the end the day it was inaccurate to NFL any standards. He's a 5th round pick starting QB he needs to lead WRs not throw it behind them. He's gotta make that play and put the ball where it can be caught, not just evade the rush and throw it where it may be caught/closer to the DB.  Hardest job in sports, but not above blame.

 

That location of the pass while running in the opposite direction towards the defender makes a drop there very likely and we all know it because we have seen it hundreds of times. I think I have seen that drop on a ball behind a WR a thousand times. Always blamed on the WR a thousand times... but not to my eyes anymore.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by RandyHolt

[DJHJR86]

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

I don't understand how a NFL coach with no prior history can just come out and run his O so rigidly.

Your not some vested veteran playcaller who can demand the O goes your way or nothing. You gotta be flexible.

 

Too many times EB comes out with his craptastic gameplan which is quickly identified as the path of most resistance that magnifies our most glaring issues. The Giants were blitzing us like crazy. I remember Buffalo getting pressure on like 80% of dropbacks. EB sees this and actively chooses to have long developing plays w/ big dropbacks because... because he wants to.

 

Its mind-numbingly stupid. Its the absolute worst possible thing that can be done.

 

Howell directly referenced the O sticking to the script even after a poor start. There was minimal attempt to right the ship. There was only a feeding of EBs ego and his infallible scheme. A system that saw our first 12 drives go:

 

-3 plays, 3 yards Punt

-3 plays, 4 yards Punt

-4 plays, 15 yards Punt

-3 plays, -5 yards Punt

-4 plays, 20 yards INT

-3 plays, 0 yards Punt

-3 plays, -10 yards Punt

-3 plays, -3 yards Punt

-3 plays 6 yards Punt

*miracle gift muff from the Gods*

-6 plays 21 yards TD

-5 plays 21 yards Punt

-3 plays 8 yards Punt

 

 

EB has been horrible so far this year and he is quickly morphing from an OC that has performed terribly to a OC that is terrible. It has all been at the general expense of Howell to boot.