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Next Day Thread: Sam Howell Just Got Sacked Again! (Buffalo Edition)

KDawg

By KDawg
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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

In the same way the Scott Turner didn’t seem like a sideline OC, EB doesn’t seem like a booth OC. 

I'm fine with that but then he needs to have a trusted lieutenant up there giving him Intel and not just massage ego I'm sure he wants that. Andy Reid is known for taking suggestions from everybody. Somebody somewhere needed to say something. We were just outclassed and needed to turtle up 🐢 

4 hours ago, Llevron said:


I have seen y’all say this a bunch. 
 

I can’t be the only one thinking that a big part of the reason he averages that much is because we use him at unexpected times, am I? Is it not a reciprocal relationship…..where if we run him more he will clearly run into more stacked boxes and not be as productive? 

Yeah we really surprised Buffalo all day last Sunday 🙄

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BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

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2 hours ago, Llevron said:

Guys it’s a brand new system and it’s game 4. Act like you have been here before lol 

….Is the implication here that we’ve seen an offense get materially better over the course of season ? If so, which team and which offense are you referencing? They usually just suck around these parts.
 

I’m not out on this team yet but your statement just doesn’t fit anything related to recent Washington football lol 

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BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

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https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/9/27/23892440/sam-howells-sack-issues-are-nothing-new
 

The issues aren’t new btw. UNC fans were having the exact same debates the past few years. Either that’s just Sam’s game or he’s just REALLY unlucky with who ends up blocking for him no matter where he plays. 
 

Most QBs have flaws. Thankfully they’re good at other stuff so it balances out. Sam does enough else where I think you can live with a propensity for sacks. 

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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2 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/9/27/23892440/sam-howells-sack-issues-are-nothing-new
 

The issues aren’t new btw. UNC fans were having the exact same debates the past few years. Either that’s just Sam’s game or he’s just REALLY unlucky with who ends up blocking for him no matter where he plays. 
 

Most QBs have flaws. Thankfully they’re good at other stuff so it balances out. Sam does enough else where I think you can live with a propensity for sacks. 

Yeah, Sam is always going to take sacks. He wants to make a play on every play and people are telling him to do less. 

 

Forgetting Sarah Marshall GIFs | Tenor

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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24 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, Sam is always going to take sacks. He wants to make a play on every play and people are telling him to do less. 

 

Forgetting Sarah Marshall GIFs | Tenor

 

Agree. It doesnt feel that complicated to me.

 

A.  Young QB who wants to make plays

B.  they need 6 people to block 4

C.  Less receivers are running routes

D.  Opponents have an easier time covering less receivers running routes with more men in coverage

 

This is a problem formulated in the off season.   What frustrated me with those who defend Ron's work on the O line is their argument centers on whether the O line is passable and hey maybe its just so so and so so is enough.  I don't agree its so so but even if I did -- so so is not the a good high water mark for a team with a QB with only 1 start with the propensity to take sacks in NC.   It's a bad combination. 

 

Even if i ran with the premise of its so so -- why are we defending C work on any position.  To me its D minus work but even if it I bought that it was the lofty C that some push -- that's not sufficient with a young QB.

 

Keim is very measured when he criticizes and he rarely criticizes at all yet he touches on that point in his last podcast.

 

You combine that with the idea that for now it looks like they are getting ZERO starters from this draft class in 2023.  Then in FA, Wylie hasn't been good IMO,  Barton has arguably been their worst player on defense.  And according to PFF Gates has been their weak line on the O line.  All together, it feels for the moment like a disaster off season.

 

I'll give that the season is young and these guys can turn it around.  But at this given moment it doesn't look hot.  Keim also hit them on the last podcast for not having a single starter from this draft class for 2023.  If I had to pick a way to turn it around its stop this pass happy offense and go some old school run the ball style.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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12 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I don't ever want to see BRob averaging 7 yards a carry and us not feed him the rock ever again. That is unacceptable. If you have that hard a time judging how the game plan is fairing then he needs to go up in the booth to get a better view or something. 

 

The template is staring Bieineimy in the face.

 

Robinson a year removed from the shooting is looking faster and more explosive and is hard to stop.  The O line is better at run blocking.  4 D line fronts.  It's screaming to run the ball.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I'd love to have seen Howell's play behind an average to above OL. He didn't have that at NC or here. Then we'd be certain if he holds the ball too long, if the WR's can't separate, if the play calling sucks, and so on...

 

Me, too.

 

The idea that the o line just needs to be so so.  And don't get me wrong I believe this O line is bad and not so so.  But I am growing to hate the so so is enough argument.  Since when is the O line like the RB position -- don't put resources into that, there are better things to do with your draft picks and money?

 

We wrote last week about how the Eagles’ pass offense looks a little wonky and how the defense needs some work at linebacker and safety, positions where they lost vets in the offseason.

Yet, the Eagles are 3–0.

Yet, the Eagles outgained the Bucs 472–174 in Tampa Bay on Monday.

Yet, Philadelphia has spent one possession (and 7:55) playing from behind through three games.

So how do you match a team that hasn’t always looked quite right this year with that sort of game control and statistical dominance? It’s really easy. And a great lesson in where Philly is most invested and why it has invested there

Nick Sirianni’s team is in position to work out its issues on the fly, simply put, because its ability to control the line of scrimmage across the board is second to none. If you’re as good as the Eagles are on the lines, you’re gonna be in every game and you’re probably going to win most. It allows you to control the clock and the pace of the game on offense, and take the other team off its game while on defense. Plus game whatever problems you have elsewhere.

So here, according to Spotrac’s number, is the team’s overall cap investment in its offensive and defensive lines: $82.73 million (if you add Haason Reddick, a line-of-scrimmage player classified as a linebacker, the number jumps to $89.94 million). That’s 36% of the salary cap, and it’s a number that’s kept lower with Cam Jurgens, Landon Dickerson, Tyler Steen, Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis still on rookie contracts.

The Eagles are one of just four teams that are top 10 in the NFL in both offensive and defensive line cap spending, joined by only the Bengals, Falcons and Colts. And in both position groups, they have a pair of 10-year vets to bring the younger guys along (Jason Kelce and Lane Johnson on offense, Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham on defense).

We talk a lot, really all year, about blueprints for building teams. More should take a page from the one that Howie Roseman and the Eagles have drawn up.

 

 

 

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

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54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

All together, it feels for the moment like a disaster off season.

Still early but EB better figure out quickly that he doesn't have Pat Mahomes covering up the flaws in this offensive line. It's becoming a situation where maybe we only run the plays that play to our strengths and just try to stay in games until Sam learns the league and the offense and the offensive line can gel. Run the ball, use more crossing routes and screens....Count on Tress Way to punt teams in as best he can. Stay in games going into the half so the team can build confidence. 

By the way, this was one of the greatest off-seasons in franchise history!!!

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Me, too.

 

The idea that the o line just needs to be so so.  And don't get me wrong I believe this O line is bad and not so so.  But I am growing to hate the so so is enough argument.  Since when is the O line like the RB position -- don't put resources into that, there are better things to do with your draft picks and money?

 

We wrote last week about how the Eagles’ pass offense looks a little wonky and how the defense needs some work at linebacker and safety, positions where they lost vets in the offseason.

Yet, the Eagles are 3–0.

Yet, the Eagles outgained the Bucs 472–174 in Tampa Bay on Monday.

Yet, Philadelphia has spent one possession (and 7:55) playing from behind through three games.

So how do you match a team that hasn’t always looked quite right this year with that sort of game control and statistical dominance? It’s really easy. And a great lesson in where Philly is most invested and why it has invested there

Nick Sirianni’s team is in position to work out its issues on the fly, simply put, because its ability to control the line of scrimmage across the board is second to none. If you’re as good as the Eagles are on the lines, you’re gonna be in every game and you’re probably going to win most. It allows you to control the clock and the pace of the game on offense, and take the other team off its game while on defense. Plus game whatever problems you have elsewhere.

So here, according to Spotrac’s number, is the team’s overall cap investment in its offensive and defensive lines: $82.73 million (if you add Haason Reddick, a line-of-scrimmage player classified as a linebacker, the number jumps to $89.94 million). That’s 36% of the salary cap, and it’s a number that’s kept lower with Cam Jurgens, Landon Dickerson, Tyler Steen, Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis still on rookie contracts.

The Eagles are one of just four teams that are top 10 in the NFL in both offensive and defensive line cap spending, joined by only the Bengals, Falcons and Colts. And in both position groups, they have a pair of 10-year vets to bring the younger guys along (Jason Kelce and Lane Johnson on offense, Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham on defense).

We talk a lot, really all year, about blueprints for building teams. More should take a page from the one that Howie Roseman and the Eagles have drawn up.

 

 

 

Niners seem to follow the same blueprint....they're solid on both lines. More than solid, theyre top notch. 

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Me, too.

 

The idea that the o line just needs to be so so.  And don't get me wrong I believe this O line is bad and not so so.  But I am growing to hate the so so is enough argument.  Since when is the O line like the RB position -- don't put resources into that, there are better things to do with your draft picks and money?

 

So so would be when playing at their absolute best.

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KDawg

KDawg

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I'm also not convinced that we don't have upgrades to the OL already on the roster.

 

With this staff's seeming refusal to play young/rookies regularly, I have to say I'm not sure that Paul and Stromberg aren't upgrades to the current situation. And perhaps even Larsen at C. 

 

I'm also not sure Cosmi isn't an upgrade to Wylie at RT. I think we have some pieces on the line that with a reorganization can at least give potential for slight improvement. Not major improvement...

 

But I've seen enough of Wylie, quite frankly. 

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Riggo#44

Riggo#44

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Nick Sirianni’s team is in position to work out its issues on the fly, simply put, because its ability to control the line of scrimmage across the board is second to none. If you’re as good as the Eagles are on the lines, you’re gonna be in every game and you’re probably going to win most.

 

I hate everything about Philly (except Cheesesteaks and Franklin Fountain). But I am incredibly envious of everything the Eagles do...

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zCommander

zCommander

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Look everyone it is going to be okay now. Whiskey (even auto correct knows better 😹) is going to protect Howell..  😂

 

Andrew Wylie made it clear in the locker room after the Washington Commanders' 37-3 loss to the Buffalo Bills that it's unacceptable for Sam Howell to get hit as many times as he did on Sunday, no matter how tough he may be. 

 

"As an offensive lineman, that's on our unit," Wylie said. "We take that personally. We gotta do a better job of keeping him upright and getting him that extra tick." 

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Look everyone it is going to be okay now. Whiskey (even auto correct knows better 😹) is going to protect Howell..  😂

 

Andrew Wylie made it clear in the locker room after the Washington Commanders' 37-3 loss to the Buffalo Bills that it's unacceptable for Sam Howell to get hit as many times as he did on Sunday, no matter how tough he may be. 

 

"As an offensive lineman, that's on our unit," Wylie said. "We take that personally. We gotta do a better job of keeping him upright and getting him that extra tick." 

That's hilarious coming from the blocking whiffer. 

 

And yes, hello captain obvious

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Conn

Conn

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5 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/9/27/23892440/sam-howells-sack-issues-are-nothing-new
 

The issues aren’t new btw. UNC fans were having the exact same debates the past few years. Either that’s just Sam’s game or he’s just REALLY unlucky with who ends up blocking for him no matter where he plays. 
 

Most QBs have flaws. Thankfully they’re good at other stuff so it balances out. Sam does enough else where I think you can live with a propensity for sacks. 


It’s not as binary as I’m making it sound here, but the QB has a lot of say in how pressure effects him. And the choice they make tells you a lot about the sort of QB they are (or can be). If he’s going to try to make plays outside the timing of the offense (which could help him be great), then he’s going to have to choose between throwing INTs or taking sacks. It can’t be both like it was this past weekend, no matter how bad the OL is. 
 

And on the flip side, a better OL and better playcalling can help Howell operate within the timing of the intended play so that he doesn’t have to make that choice about where to compromise against pressure. Successful 4 man pressure against 6 man protection with 7 in coverage isn’t sustainable so some combo of the blocking being horrendous, Howell’s processing being slow or incomplete, and the WRs failing to get open against loaded secondaries with a numbers advantage is killing us. How much of that is fixable is the real question. But if the protection is going to be that poor and Howell consistently can’t find a man breaking open at the top of his drop with lots of opposing jerseys swarming in the secondary—it’s going to be an ugly year and he’s going to be choosing between Sack or INT-worthy play quite often. 
 

The protection needs to be better. The playcalling needs to afford Howell the opportunity to find open targets. And Howell needs to get comfortable pulling the trigger earlier. 

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skinny21

skinny21

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44 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Look everyone it is going to be okay now. Whiskey (even auto correct knows better 😹) is going to protect Howell..  😂

 

Andrew Wylie made it clear in the locker room after the Washington Commanders' 37-3 loss to the Buffalo Bills that it's unacceptable for Sam Howell to get hit as many times as he did on Sunday, no matter how tough he may be. 

 

"As an offensive lineman, that's on our unit," Wylie said. "We take that personally. We gotta do a better job of keeping him upright and getting him that extra tick." 

I love how the way you clipped that makes it sound like Howell was sacked again after Wylie’s comment

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