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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

Conn

By Conn
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Stone Cold

Stone Cold

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Posted (edited)

All this talk about our ol…and rightfully so.  All teams have holes.  It’s the OCs job to minimize the flaws and maximize the talent.  For the first time in as long as I can remember, I have superior confidence in EB setting Sam and the OL up for success.  I’m looking for throwing more on 1-2 down and staying ahead of the chains as much as possible.  We’re going to play fast and have several formations that the defense won’t be able to key run or pass.  This season will look a lot different than the team we are used to watching.  And im so stoked for it.

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wit33

wit33

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3 hours ago, Conn said:


Right but even in that hypothetical, who is gonna bet that the Cardinals don’t cover -17? Probably few people. -7 or so is a much better spot for the line to be to draw in whatever money there is on both the Cardinals or Commanders. You start talking blowout in the spread, you’re only getting sucker/degenerate money. It’s rare to see a spread really reflect a potential blowout. One of the biggest spreads in recent memory (I believe) was last season at like -11, with the Chiefs playing some donkey team. 


There’s been a few -17 and plenty of -13s. 

 

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The Commanders believe in Sam Howell. But did they give him enough help?

 

 

Did the Commanders build strong enough infrastructure around Howell to allow him to succeed?

Yes, according to Coach Ron Rivera, who believes Howell is in the best quarterback situation he’s created in Washington.

 

“You never know until you start playing,” Rivera said. “But with the things that we’ve done, the way we practiced this year, going to Baltimore [for joint practices] … there’s a lot of confidence. … We feel good about the playmakers that are around Sam.”

 

There are several reasons to believe Rivera is right. The team has what could be one of the NFL’s best defenses, which should prevent the offense from having to win shootouts. The offense has complementary running backs, a couple solid tight ends and an elite room of receivers. Even if top wideout Terry McLaurin (turf toe) misses a game or two, Howell should have enough skill talent around him to fulfill the dreams of a high-flying offense Bieniemy brought from Kansas City.

 

The biggest reason to doubt Rivera is the offensive line. Last year’s was bad, and this year’s is another clear weak link. The front office devoted few resources to it — two midmarket veterans, two mid-round draft picks — and bet on the growth of young players unproven in their roles. Internally, executives know they need the unit to be greater than the sum of its parts. Externally, experts believe the line has a razor-thin margin for error.

 

The line already shown cracks. Right tackle Andrew Wylie struggled in the preseason opener. The team placed fourth-round tackle Braeden Daniels (rotator cuff) on injured reserve Tuesday, ending his season. And even though General Manager Martin Mayhew has praised the play of left guard Saahdiq Charles, saying he just had the best camp of his career, injuries have plagued Charles and forced him to miss two weeks, as well.

 

Before last season, the Commanders were optimistic, and the aging line went on to be decimated by injuries and limited by a lack of guard athleticism. Sam Cosmi, the young player Washington bet on to improve, ultimately this year moved inside to guard. The line’s struggles, coupled with limited quarterbacks and suspect play-calling, led to a broader unraveling.

 

“I feel good about our offensive line,” Mayhew said Tuesday, adding, “I’m happy with the guys we got in free agency … and I feel good about our depth, too.”

 

...All the skill players could help the line protect by chipping in — literally. (“Chip” is football jargon for a skill player hitting a defender before running his pass pattern.) Robinson said Bieniemy’s scheme incorporates more chips than that of former offensive coordinator Scott Turner.

 

“It’s in our offense deep,” Robinson said, pointing out that opponent and game plan will dictate how much skill players chip. “If we got a very good edge rusher or something, I’m pretty sure we’ll have chips in the game a lot.”

 

This week, as Commanders executives have spoken optimistically about solidifying the 53-man roster, it’s been clear they believe the best-case scenarios are going to work out.

 

“We’ve put some explosive pieces around Sam … with our receiver corps and with our tight end group, and then certainly [he’ll be helped] with Eric coming in with his offense,” senior director of player personnel Eric Stokes said. “We have a creative offense. It’s going to be explosive. I think it’s going to be balanced, and so [I’m] really excited about seeing how all those pieces come together.”


“Chip and gos”!

 

I equate it to the pick and roll in basketball! 



Can’t wait to have you come around to the good side. I was even okay with them spending/wasting $8-10 mil on a veteran with 68.7889 PFF score just to get you on the good side. 
 

Continuity, scheme and QB > overpaid average to above PFF score talent. 

 

I completely understand we’re all fanatical about the team and want them to overachieve. You’re not incorrect that the Oline could be an issue. Just having a little fun. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, wit33 said:



Can’t wait to have you come around to the good side.

 

What's the good side?  Ron Rivera is the dude?  Again, love everything he did under Dan. Perfect guy for the dysfunction.  A beacon of class representing an organization that lacked class.  10 out of 10 on that front.  But its time to move on if he doesn't cut it this year.  Why even fret?  His fate will be decided organically with all likelihood and the season is right around the corner.  So the movie is about to play out.  If he killed it this off season as a few here think, I'd love it, and big time so.  Will see.

 

What do I genuinely think of you and some others who want Ron to run this team for years going forward?  My guess is part of it is you've been beaten down with low standards because of what's happened with this team.  I get it.  We've learned to think differently than other fan bases because we've sucked.  You used to defend Bruce Allen.  I recall some of the arguments for Bruce by some was that he was better than Cerrato.  Or hey Bruce is better than we give him credit for. I recall that thread well because it was the most heated one I've ever participated in during all my years here.

 

And Rivera is a peg better than Bruce.  He certaintly is classier by a mile and smarter dude than him.   Bruce was embarassing.  And there is nothing embarassing for the most part about Ron aside from his occasional misstatement.  It's graduating from Burger King to lets say Outback.   But we aren't going to win IMO any Michelin stars with him running the restaurant.  I get enjoying that climb from Bruce's dysfunction.  I did enjoy it for a period, too.  But not anymore.  It's OK to think bigger.  Seriously, name a fan base if you asked them do you want Ron Rivera running their FO?  You know the answer.  Then ask yourself why not?

 

 

13 hours ago, wit33 said:

 I was even okay with them spending/wasting $8-10 mil on a veteran with 68.7889 PFF score just to get you on the good side. 

 

I am lost.  What player with a 69 PFF score did they sign for 8-10 million?  And as for PFF, the irony I am sort of the anti-PFF on the draft thread to the most anayltics driven guy on that thread who argued against me on Terry among other players.   But here I am the pro-PFF guy because I don't agree with @Voice_of_Reason that they are worthless joke.    PFF is a good tool IMO if you know how to use it and don't take it literally.  Heck the PFF guys don't even take their scores that literally.  

 

The two picks that I liked the most in this draft, who were actually on my top 20 list of favorite players in this draft and posted that list before the draft -- Stromberg, Q. Martin weren't liked by PFF.  But I didn't care.  But I think saying PFF is useless is an extreme point that is a bit wild.  But to each their own. 

 

13 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Continuity, scheme and QB > overpaid average to above PFF score talent. 

 

 

Sure.  But the way you phrased it -- that's a big time strawman argument to present that as your side versus me being on the other side of the argument.  Where did I argue otherwise.  Or for that matter has anyone in the history of this board argued otherwise.  So I don't get the point.  

 

As far as continuity is specifically concerned.  Dabol took over a team and within one year had a better record than Ron achieved in three years.  And just about every pundit expects them to be better than this team this year again.  Will see.  The new Eagles brass took over a team and took them to the SB within two years.  The idea that we will be lost without Ron and his version of continuity doesn't resonate one whit with me.

 

13 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I completely understand we’re all fanatical about the team and want them to overachieve. You’re not incorrect that the Oline could be an issue. Just having a little fun. 

 

It's not about the O line in a vacuum for me. It's about what Randy Mueller said, Ron comes off like he's on a 10 year plan with all the job security in the world.    Grant Paulsen who has been mostly friendly to Ron during his regime, said something similar.  I am not alone in this observation.  Ron seem to either lack the vision to finish a team or has a lack of urgency to do it.

 

Feels like a kid in high school wanting to get into a good college.  The GPA is lets say 2.7.  They need to get a 3.4 to get into a good college.  They are in their junior year where they have to step it up to make it happen and instead say whatever, lets keep down this same road, and heck if we need to spend an extra 2 years in high school to get to that GPA, that's fine, no biggie. 

 

And for me who defended him a zillion times I was especially frustrated by this.  I've defended his previous off seasons by while agreeing he didn't finish the roster, I believed he was building up to it this off season.  But when he went to his same playbook this off season and seeing the upstart Giants brass do exactly what I envision to be a step on the gas off season he lost me.

 

I like to compare him to the Giants because its a regime that is considered smarter by many corners of NFL pundits and even our own Logan Paulsen alludes to the point.  They actually have that pedigreed FO that I, @BatteredFanSyndrome among others would talk about craving back in the day on that FO-Bruce thread.    And that team happens to be in our division.  And they are doing it without that precious "continuity" that some here think we'd be lost if Ron left.  

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

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Posted

The good side is for Josh to be successful and for him to be successful, he needs to move on from the Snyder hires; as soon as that’s feasible.  The business side will likely be first and the easiest to change.

 

The personnel/coaching side is more complicated. One those 2 roles need to held by 2 different people, not by one person.  This will be the #1 discussion this offseason.  Maybe Ron willingly agrees to relinquish that role. Maybe Ron refuses and Josh decides to part ways with Ron. If Ron returns, maybe Josh decides to do nothing until after Ron’s initial contract expires; then he can do whatever he wants. The important thing here, the Gm and head coaching positions need to be separate. At some point in the near future, this needs to happen.

 

Finally, the head coaching position will eventually need to be addressed. How Ron fairs will obviously play a big role in that and the issue of splitting the Gm/coaching positions.  If Josh wants to compete in the modern nfl; he will need to eventually move on from Ron and hire his own coach. Ron can’t and has shown that since his last winning season was 6 years ago.

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skinsfan4128

skinsfan4128

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Posted
26 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The good side is for Josh to be successful and for him to be successful, he needs to move on from the Snyder hires; as soon as that’s feasible.  The business side will likely be first and the easiest to change.

 

The personnel/coaching side is more complicated. One those 2 roles need to held by 2 different people, not by one person.  This will be the #1 discussion this offseason.  Maybe Ron willingly agrees to relinquish that role. Maybe Ron refuses and Josh decides to part ways with Ron. If Ron returns, maybe Josh decides to do nothing until after Ron’s initial contract expires; then he can do whatever he wants. The important thing here, the Gm and head coaching positions need to be separate. At some point in the near future, this needs to happen.

 

Finally, the head coaching position will eventually need to be addressed. How Ron fairs will obviously play a big role in that and the issue of splitting the Gm/coaching positions.  If Josh wants to compete in the modern nfl; he will need to eventually move on from Ron and hire his own coach. Ron can’t and has shown that since his last winning season was 6 years ago.

Did Ron steal your lunch money? Kick your dog? Just asking for a friend.

 

Your drive by posts about the same dribble is getting old. We get it, you don't like Ron and want him fired. Think you've made your point.

 

HTTR!

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, skinsfan4128 said:

Your drive by posts about the same dribble is getting old. We get it, you don't like Ron and want him fired. Think you've made your point.

It’s RonBot.  It went away for w bit but it appears to be back now.  
 

Same post, basically out of nowhere, ignoring reality and making the same point over and over with no new insight or information.

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redskinss

redskinss

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1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The good side is for Josh to be successful and for him to be successful, he needs to move on from the Snyder hires; as soon as that’s feasible.  The business side will likely be first and the easiest to change.

 

The personnel/coaching side is more complicated. One those 2 roles need to held by 2 different people, not by one person.  This will be the #1 discussion this offseason.  Maybe Ron willingly agrees to relinquish that role. Maybe Ron refuses and Josh decides to part ways with Ron. If Ron returns, maybe Josh decides to do nothing until after Ron’s initial contract expires; then he can do whatever he wants. The important thing here, the Gm and head coaching positions need to be separate. At some point in the near future, this needs to happen.

 

Finally, the head coaching position will eventually need to be addressed. How Ron fairs will obviously play a big role in that and the issue of splitting the Gm/coaching positions.  If Josh wants to compete in the modern nfl; he will need to eventually move on from Ron and hire his own coach. Ron can’t and has shown that since his last winning season was 6 years ago.

I'll bust this one out one more time because it's so appropriate. 

He's the chatty cathy doll except we're not pulling the string.

chatty-cathy-laughs.gif.a4dc96fc33a0e6bb19cc15a7d4bdc9b3.gif

 

 

 

 

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Fan since a Fetus

Fan since a Fetus

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Posted

Come on guys, enough ragging on 88 Comrade. you don’t like his posts fine, but don’t call him out all the time and make fun of him.

 

 You never know what people are going through. Hes not hating on anyone here. His posts don’t violate any rules. 
 

As long as people aren’t assholes, we should welcome everyone aboard.

 

 Try to do a little better

 

I am Fan Since a Fetus and Fan Since a Fetus approves this message!

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redskinss

redskinss

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Posted
54 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

Come on guys, enough ragging on 88 Comrade. you don’t like his posts fine, but don’t call him out all the time and make fun of him.

 

 You never know what people are going through. Hes not hating on anyone here. His posts don’t violate any rules. 
 

As long as people aren’t assholes, we should welcome everyone aboard.

 

 Try to do a little better

 

I am Fan Since a Fetus and Fan Since a Fetus approves this message!

It has absolutely nothing to do with content.

His posts are fine, it's the ridiculously repetitive nature of his posts about Rivera and his desire to see him gone.

It's a comically cyclical and nauseously over debated topic on here in general but he's by far and away the leader in the clubhouse on the topic so he gets the brunt of the opposition backlash.

There are several posters who could ease up on the Rivera bashing but he really needs to check himself.

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The good side is for Josh to be successful and for him to be successful, he needs to move on from the Snyder hires; as soon as that’s feasible.  The business side will likely be first and the easiest to change.

 

The personnel/coaching side is more complicated. One those 2 roles need to held by 2 different people, not by one person.  This will be the #1 discussion this offseason.  Maybe Ron willingly agrees to relinquish that role. Maybe Ron refuses and Josh decides to part ways with Ron. If Ron returns, maybe Josh decides to do nothing until after Ron’s initial contract expires; then he can do whatever he wants. The important thing here, the Gm and head coaching positions need to be separate. At some point in the near future, this needs to happen.

 

Finally, the head coaching position will eventually need to be addressed. How Ron fairs will obviously play a big role in that and the issue of splitting the Gm/coaching positions.  If Josh wants to compete in the modern nfl; he will need to eventually move on from Ron and hire his own coach. Ron can’t and has shown that since his last winning season was 6 years ago.

The longer this goes on, the more I think I want Ron gone. I love what he's done but I think the game has passed him by. He reminds me of Denny Green in his last days RIP when he was saying some wild things or Herm Edwards. I love that he's keeping the show on him and not the players but why must there be a show? Why can't we just play ball and talk ball? 

 

I love that he can relate and give speeches and do the Doc Walker stuff but if he's not Xing and Oing, what's he doing? He's not Gibbsing. He's more like Zorning. Or Spurriering in front of the media. I love that the team plays hard but if we hire EB (big if) I think we'd play just as hard. Same for JDR. 

 

But what I want more than anything if EB to get a 5 year contract after Sam wins MVP that keeps him the OC here. I don't care about the HC position as much right now. 

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MartinC

MartinC

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Die Hard said:


But what it really means is “I believe I am right, and you’re never going to change my mind no matter what. So why should I even bother.”

It’s when she says ‘Oh just do what you want’ that I know I’m dead. 

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Fan since a Fetus

Fan since a Fetus

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, redskinss said:

It has absolutely nothing to do with content.

His posts are fine, it's the ridiculously repetitive nature of his posts about Rivera and his desire to see him gone.

It's a comically cyclical and nauseously over debated topic on here in general but he's by far and away the leader in the clubhouse on the topic so he gets the brunt of the opposition backlash.

There are several posters who could ease up on the Rivera bashing but he really needs to check himself.


I understand your point. Some people don’t know all the ins and outs to discuss topics in more depth. Some people are just looking somewhere to fit. Some people are lonely. Some people are slow.

 

I don’t know? He’s been here since 2000. I’ve never seen him get combative with anyone on the board and I’ve never seen him break rules. He may have, I just haven’t seen it. 
 

I just think people need to lighten up in both here and the tailgate. Im guilty of giving him a hard time a couple of times for his negativity, so I’m not beyond recourse. But, I’ve decided to approach it differently. 

 

 Maybe negative people need more positive people in their lives? I don’t know. I do know that everyone here has a choice in how they handle the situation. You could ignore him, you could answer nicely, or you can make fun of him.

 

 The choice is yours. I just didn’t think the piling on was necessary.
 

As for the people that get offended when someone tries to help them on the board and they’re obtuse and refuse to change, like the guy the other day that made a thread and Conn tried to help him, well, make fun of people like that all day long. In fact, I’ll join!

 

 10-4 Green Goblin Cherrio!

 

i won’t derail this thread any further. 
 

Edit: I’m only saying something this one time because I’ve seen it many many times with him and I think people are starting to get a little more harsh and a lot of people pile on. 

Edited by Fan since a Fetus
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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
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1 hour ago, Fan since a Fetus said:


I understand your point. Some people don’t know all the ins and outs to discuss topics in more depth. Some people are just looking somewhere to fit. Some people are lonely. Some people are slow.

 

I don’t know? He’s been here since 2000. I’ve never seen him get combative with anyone on the board and I’ve never seen him break rules. He may have, I just haven’t seen it. 
 

I just think people need to lighten up in both here and the tailgate. Im guilty of giving him a hard time a couple of times for his negativity, so I’m not beyond recourse. But, I’ve decided to approach it differently. 

 

 Maybe negative people need more positive people in their lives? I don’t know. I do know that everyone here has a choice in how they handle the situation. You could ignore him, you could answer nicely, or you can make fun of him.

 

 The choice is yours. I just didn’t think the piling on was necessary.
 

As for the people that get offended when someone tries to help them on the board and they’re obtuse and refuse to change, like the guy the other day that made a thread and Conn tried to help him, well, make fun of people like that all day long. In fact, I’ll join!

 

 10-4 Green Goblin Cherrio!

 

i won’t derail this thread any further. 
 

Edit: I’m only saying something this one time because I’ve seen it many many times with him and I think people are starting to get a little more harsh and a lot of people pile on. 

Let me comment on this from a board rules perspective. It’s totally fine to jump all over a posters position, question their logic or thinking etc. What you can’t do is attack the poster personally. 
 

There is clear line. 
 

Play the ball not the man. 
 

Questioning or calling out a poster for dropping into threads and repetitively making the same point is fine. That’s playing the ball.

 

If that crosses the line into personal attacks like questioning a posters intelligence or similar that is where MODs will/should step in. 
 

But to the point made above treating people with some compassion and just taking care of each other is something I can totally get behind. Even if you disagree with a something a poster is saying do not take it or let it get personal. It’s OK for someone to disagree with you!

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