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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

Conn

By Conn
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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think the O line will be a disaster and said so many times.  I think it will range from so so to bad depending on the game. 

 

To me Brandon Thon sums up the point perfectly about O line.  Average O lineman tend to get beat by good D lineman.  Average O lineman tend to do fine against average to below average D lineman.  It's about the matchups.  So my guess is when they play meh D lines, which are basically half the schedule, the O line will hold up.  When they play the good D lines they don't hold up.  Simple as that.  I do think Bieiniemy schemes will help.  But I don't think you can completely scheme around a poor O line unit.  At some points in the game they will be exposed.

Translation: The Oline won’t be a disaster, but their will be disasters throughout the season.

 

Which is where I’m at.

 

I’m sure there will be games against lesser DL’s, like our season opener, where the OL appears to gel and holds up.  There will also be games, unfortunately like the ones against our division foes where scheming can only help the void of talent but so much.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Ultimately I think it comes down to the ability to execute blitz pickups and stunts. The game within the game - the mental side.

 

Even under Callahan the O line struggled with stunts.  I recall Dallas in particular having a field day with this against this line.

 

Ultimately, good defenses will try to win with their 4 rushers against our 5.  And drop the others into coverage. In an obvious passing down can Charles Leno this time stop Thibdeaux?  If I recall he didn't blitz but he just beat him man on man.  Can Wylie stop Parsons' one on one, etc?

 

We don't have a tackle who can easily block on an island where we can safety double team one side without worrying about the other side.

 

I agree picking up the blitz and stunts are key.  But IMHO it goes deeper than that.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Translation: The Oline won’t be a disaster, but their will be disasters throughout the season.

 

Which is where I’m at.

 

I’m sure there will be games against lesser DL’s, like our season opener, where the OL appears to gel and holds up.  There will also be games, unfortunately like the ones against our division foes where scheming can only help the void of talent but so much.

 

Exactly.

 

I can already tell that some of the people (I am guessing we got about give or take 6 here) who think the O line is OK enough will be chesty after some games and say you guys thought it would be a disaster so see! :ols:

 

But yeah I, you, among others haven't really billed this unit as a disaster.  It's just a unit that is weak enough that we feel will likely cost them a playoff spot because it will fail them in SOME moments that likely cost them in some big games.

 

The more I digest it though I should be cool with it.  Same reason why I said now I am glad Bruce botched the Kirk negotiation because it led to Bruce's demise among other things.  I don't want Ron back.  i respect everything he did.  But lets go for great now.  Dream much bigger.  It will take some time to get used to but we can dream bigger than 9-8 or even 10-7.  and to do that IMO, we need Ron to go.  So if the O line derails them from the playoffs it might be again losing a battle to win the war.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I am not counting any chickens. Its an NFL team - we have to earn the win.

 

It feels like the perfect storm.

 

Home field advantage for a change with a rabid crowd.

 

The Cards IMO don't match up well to this team -- their pass rush for example is "meh".

 

And we either have a raw rookie Qb starting for them or a Jag Qb who has had 2 weeks to learn their offense.

 

I agree that anything can happen.  But I can't recall such a lopsided perfect storm matchup than this one in eons. 

 

 

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

While I fully agree a pass heavy offense is the ideal way to operate in the modern NFL, you still gotta work with what you got roster and coaching wise. Some teams simply don't have the pieces to play that way, like us last year as you pointed out. Its not something that is wise to force either, otherwise you end up like we did for the early part of the year or the Jaguars did for many seasons where you just throw yourself outta games b/c your so bad at it.

 

I doubt anyone is looking at the Bears roster and thinking passing as many times as possible is the best way to operate that offense. But if your built like the Chiefs or the Bengals? Go nuts.

 

Find the things your roster does best and focus on it. Last year we were bad at running, buy ungodly awful at passing, so surprise surprise, the more we ran, the better off we were.

This is exactly my point about the run run pass vs pass pass run analytics and Chris Russell (run the ball) vs Al Galdi (pass the ball) arguments of the media. Its more about what you've got, how you match up and other things. Yeah it would be great if we could be bullies and just have a bunch of linemen that could throw defenses around so we could get 5 yards a pop on every run, or if we could have a Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss who could catch everything thrown his way so we didn't have to do much game planning. Even better if we had multiple things to plan around like the linemen and the running back and the wr and QB, but thats a dream.

 

What we've got to work with is stuff like we know we've got a top 5 WR trio and that gives us an edge over probably any set of corners, but how many number 1 corners can Terry beat? How many number 1 corners can a Terry with a hurt toe beat? Doctson is probably a number 1 on most teams so he can probably beat most number 2 corners. And Samuel is probably good right now but I haven't seen enough of him this preseason to call him "healthy". So then we can try to come out passing but to what cause? To our 2nd 4th and 5th Wr? Our TEs? Our line that we're not sure that can pass block yet? We know that our QB is succeptable to a certain type of blitz off the edge that has gotten him twice already. 

 

I'm a fan of the pass first game, but I don't think it is as simple as "the analytics say do it so ..." 

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@DCGoldPants

@DCGoldPants

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I sure hope Harris ditched any med staff that was under Dan's reign of terror.

 

Probably couldn't with taking control a week before camp. Imagine research is being done right now and all season on what "right" looks like for medical/training/recovery for an NFL team. 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Even under Callahan the O line struggled with stunts.  I recall Dallas in particular having a field day with this against this line.

 

Ultimately, good defenses will try to win with their 4 rushers against our 5.  And drop the others into coverage. In an obvious passing down can Charles Leno this time stop Thibdeaux?  If I recall he didn't blitz but he just beat him man on man.  Can Wylie stop Parsons' one on one, etc?

 

We don't have a tackle who can easily block on an island where we can safety double team one side without worrying about the other side.

 

I agree picking up the blitz and stunts are key.  But IMHO it goes deeper than that.  

It used to KILL me to see Callahans OL struggle with stunts. Over the course of years. And our defense largely during that time? Rarely closer to never tried stunts. Gee I wonder why our OL never had enough practice on it. 

 

Yeah it goes deeper than that, but unblocked blitzers is a MAJOR disruption that cannot be ignored when seeing where an OL fails. All things equal, OL talent should be largely even league wide team to team, as long as a team is using top picks on the OL as much as other teams do.  OOPS.

 

I hated Callahan - never trusted him after his Super Bowl playbook pull and his team got destroyed. Players openly said he threw the game.  Tim Brown and Jerry Rice are big voices.  IIRC he benched his starting center the night before as well.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/jerry-rice-agrees-with-tim-brown-bill-callahan-sabotaged-us

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It feels like the perfect storm.

 

Home field advantage for a change with a rabid crowd.

 

The Cards IMO don't match up well to this team -- their pass rush for example is "meh".

 

And we either have a raw rookie Qb starting for them or a Jag Qb who has had 2 weeks to learn their offense.

 

I agree that anything can happen.  But I can't recall such a lopsided perfect storm matchup than this one in eons. 

 

 

 

We SHOULD spank their asses. I SHOULD be on a date with Jennifer Lawrence.

 

Now I will say I like our chances against the Cards a LOT more than my chances with Jennifer.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

It used to KILL me to see Callahans OL struggle with stunts. Over the course of years. And our defense largely during that time? Rarely closer to never tried stunts. Gee I wonder why our OL never had enough practice on it.

 

 

Yeah it was weird with Callahan.  Dallas obviously had the book on him since he coached there.  And apparently they knew first hand that the unit wasn't coached up well versus stunts.  Dallas gave them fits among other teams with stunts.

 

The Giants from what Logan Paulsen said shifted their players presnap knowing that our O line typically doesn't adjust accordingly and tend to stick with the predetermined protection sets.   And they exploited that.

 

I do think Bieiniemy will help on that front.  But on obvious passing downs, can this O line block some D lines who have 3-4 studs or more on their unit?  I doubt they could down in down out.  Eventually the dam will break. 

 

As for blitz pick up, some say Robinson has struggled on that front this preseason.  If so hopefully he picks it up in the season.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

You say this as if you haven't been a fan of this team for years. I'm more expecting Washington to suck butt and lose because why not.

We're gonna stop the living hell out of the Cards and I'll be the first one yelling SUPERBOWL!!!

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

Posted
Posted

So is it safe to say that whatever the issue is with Chase Young, it isn't a "stinger?"  I have seen some speculate that it was a concussion which is why they are keeping him away from contact until Week 1.   No way a stinger is keeping the guy from playing a game that is going to take place a good month after.  

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