The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[CapsSkins]

43 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Uh why would you trade for Higgins to replace Terry when he’s going to demand a huge deal?? You’d then have a lesser (but still good WR) on similar money. 
 

If you’re going to try to get younger, you draft a new WR1. 

You keep Terry tho. He’s a damn good WR and whoever the QB of the future is, they’ll need a damn good WR. We should be thinking about getting another truly good WR to pair with him. Why can’t we just sign Tee Higgins or hell, Justin Jefferson might be ready to get the hell out of Minnesota. We have plenty of picks and cap space. Let’s build a truly elite unit built on meaningful position resource allocation. 

You’d trade him for Higgins because Higgins is 3.5 years younger and a comparable receiver. In a couple years when Howell is a polished product and we’re ready to be a Super Bowl contender, Higgins will be ~27 and Terry will be 30.

 

Top receivers are almost all 30 or younger and locking up Higgins wouldn’t prevent us from drafting a guy, either. The reason you trade is bc I’m assuming the Bengals would likely tag and trade vs letting him walk in FA.

 

Re: Jefferson, I mean sure if the Vikings are willing to trade him for whatever reason then yeah go get him. But I don’t see that as likely. Higgins we know has avoided signing an extension and is about to hit FA.

 

Anyway, I’m not saying they have to go down this route. I’m just saying McLaurin isn’t untouchable and for the right deal, I’d do it. He’s not leaps and bounds better than Higgins is the point.

[dyst]

I wish some team would trade for Ron and JDR.

[Conn]

The game is on. Raiders fire McDaniels and their GM, name LB coach Antonio Pierce as Interim. Wow, with 4 years left on McDaniels’ deal lol. What an ill-conceived hire. 

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

The game is on. Raiders fire McDaniels and their GM, name LB coach Antonio Pierce as Interim. Wow, with 4 years left on McDaniels’ deal lol. What an ill-conceived hire. 

Maybe leak some emails so they won’t have to pay the rest?

 

I mentioned this in the game thread last night that Mark Davis is getting what he deserves. No way McDaniels should be hired as a head coach.

 

Had no idea that Pierce was with LV.  Good for him. I saw that Brunell and Randle El are on Detroit’s staff. I wonder how many ex Redskins are coaching in the league.

[Wyvern]

The strategy of making these trades to get additional draft capital will need to be complimented by very careful review of the quality of the  scouting network that Washington uses to identify who to draft.

 

So, I am assuming there will soon some action in that area, likely as part of that group's eventual overhaul under a new GM. Otherwise Washington might not get the best value for all the new draft picks the acquired.  I remember when Scott McCloughan was trying to overhaul some of the scouting staff, and essentially got blocked by Allen with Snyder's support.  Maybe Harris should bring in former Steeler GM Colbert as a consultant for the transition work?

 

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

I wish some team would trade for Ron and JDR.

The NFL is crazy.

 

But not that crazy!

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

The game is on. Raiders fire McDaniels and their GM, name LB coach Antonio Pierce as Interim. Wow, with 4 years left on McDaniels’ deal lol. What an ill-conceived hire. 

No idea how McDaniels keeps getting HC jobs.

[Veretax]

7 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

The argument to consider moving Terry: {summary near 30s with big cap hits} ...

And then flip Allen for another 1 with Brown taking his spot? Those would eb the types of moves it'd be smart to do as a rebuilding team, but again, just throwing things out there that probably wouldn't happen. 

 

I'm likely more open to it than some becuase I really see Howell as a good, maybe very good QB but not elite and that doesn't thrill me going forward. But that's me. 

 

• I try to be a realist with this team, Terry is a good #1.  He's not a top ten of the league number 1, or at least is not able to produce that way right now.  That naturally leads me to consider that he could be moved as well.  However, given he is under contract for a through 2025, with 5.6 in a voidable 26 year according to sporttrac.  Sporttrac also points out that the 24/25 AAV is only around 17.5 mil the next too seasons in cash.    Personally I don't think trading Terry at end of this season makes sense, 29.3 mil of potential dead cap is a lot, and I think Terry allows you to have a leader in the WR corp with experience while looking for potential replacements.  We should always be looking for quality WR depth because the really good one's contracts often get very, very large.  The problem I have with evaluating the WR room is earlier in the season it seemed like Sam was not getting past his first or second read early on.  This likely meant Terry and whoever was second on any given route, could be crashed on by the defense because the Oline was not protecting sam enough.   Sam is not doing what Big ben used to do, he's not holding the ball forever instead of moving to the next down, he barely has any time in the pocket, which makes evaluating Terry based on statistics this season difficult at best.  (This applies to all the WRs, but more the top 3: McClaurin, Samuels, Dotson)
• As for Allen, I know he is vocal in the Locker room.  I'm not sure if that's a good vocal, or a bad vocal, but he's a player I have a hard time seeing them part with. Sporttrac has his dead cap hits at 12 and 6 mil in 24/ 25 so definitely potentially doable with a trade.  I don't think he gets cut because of performance.  He is also nearing 30.  Payne has been very good inside, and we have had some good depth, so if this is a most aggressive rebuild coming, yeah he could be on the table, I hadn't thought of that after losing both sweat and young.
• Now if I can talk about Sam Howell for a moment.  He is entering his 3rd year which means you have 2 very cheap years left.  This feels a bit like the cousins deal.  I like Sam, I'm willing to ride with him for 2 or 3 more years if he shows promise the rest of the year.  I do think he's shown glimpses of being brady like servicable, I think he can manage the game if he gets time on more than 20 some percent of the snaps.  I didn't get to see this weeks game but it felt like sam has less than 3 seconds in the pocket when we try to be in the pocket, and rolling out, just reduces that time a little due to the motion, but I like what I've seen from Sam.  This is really his rookie year (thanks Coach Rivera), I find myself inclined to wanting to see more, but I also think, while I could see them hit a gamble on a QB either in FA or the Draft again next year.  I don't feel they do this unless Sam completely craters down the stretch though.  There are too many holes on the Oline, to brin ga Rookie in there right now.  Maybe a flyer guy in the 3rd or later?
• The one player I haven't heard anyone say anything about is Jamin Davis.  He has 1 year left on a deal, and reasonable cap numbers to trade before next season.  I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I don't think he was ever the right fit for this defense.  Unless a new staff coming in (suspectedly), sees a way to use him, you might be able to get something for him, though not a 2nd, or 3rd Rounder, but remember we need depth at DB, note that TE Bates is also on the third year of his rookie deal, and I'm not sure we've seen enough of him to justify him long term either.  You know who else is in that position? Dyami Brown. 
• I like Dyami Brown, but given Sam has struggled to find him (6 catches on 11t argets all season?) At his position on the Depth Chart, its hard to know if this how far down the route tree he is, or if this is reflective of the OL.  But if you are going to trade him this offseason is when you do it.  I doubt we would get much for him however.  NFL.com though says he has 1 more catch but a lot fewer yards this year than all of last season, so if the OL play can improve maybe Dyami can get  double that down the stretch.
• While we are talking about the OL, have we seen enough to resign Saadhiq Charles? He's on the last year of his rookie deal, if not, there's for sure 1 Guard position that has ot be filled this offseason, just for numbers alone. (GG Braden Daniels is only 23 and with more playing time could develop maybe, but PFF doesn't have him as having a SINGLE snap yet.
• TE Brandon Dillon was signed undrafted in 2019 by the Vikings and walks without a new deal.  He's been on IR since August, for undisclosed injury. Who knows what they saw in him, but that's another injured TE on our roster.
• Another interesting player is Antonio Gibson. at RB he will be out the door without an extension.  Based on the Game logs, he's had an average of 3 rushing attempts per game, and never had 20 yards in a game.  The fall off the last two years is staggering 546 yards total last year, only 90 all season.  So there's a RB we likely aren't keeping, except on the cheap.
• I could keep going down this roster of all the players in 3rd or 4th year that just haven't done enough to say yeah I'm excited moving forward, so there is room for shake ups all around.  This offseason could be very, very, interesting.
   

 

7 hours ago, Conn said:

on the same day we take the first step on the road back to roster building competency, the Giants fumble organizationally

 

 

I did see the Giants traded away Leonard Williams to Seattle, not sure what this means for our game against them, but the Giants look worse than us in general, despite having beaten us once already.  Frankly, I wish they'd knock philly and dallas around a bit at least.
 

7 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

This might have been discussed (I scanned back a few pages), but wouldn't we have gotten roughly a 3rd round comp pick if CY had just left via free agency?

Someone else posted about how Compensatory picks are based on # of players and money spent in Free Agency on those players.  We will have close to half of the training camp roster to sign this offseason.  The other rub, I think Comp Picks lag a year. So we wouldn't see that compensation till 2025 draft.  I'd rather take a guaranteed lower third now then a 5th in 2025, maybe that's just me?

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

McLaurin isn’t the same situation as the ends. At all.

 

He’s already on his second contract. He’s been as good as the hype. He’s not a distraction in the least. 
 

I think moving on from guys makes sense. I think moving on from McLaurin, at this point, is stupid. 

 

I know give or take three people here think the roster stinks and this regime plans a complete overhaul.  Listening to Keim among others those people will likely end up disappointed.  

 

I got no sense they'd trade Terry McLaurin. Zero.  If they wanted a complete tear down they'd have traded Jonathan Allen.  From what I understand, they got trade offers for him and a good haul this week.  They didn't want to do it.

 

They simply made a business decision to keep their money on the D line around the DTs instead of the edges.  I think that's smart.  Feels easier to find pass rushers on the market at edge. 

 

With 90 million plus in cap space and 5 picks in the top 3 rounds, I don't get the vibe that the idea is a long rebuild especially if Howell ends up the goods.  If Howell is the goods and the idea is him on a cheap contract, you'd hope to be competitive soon.

 

We are conditioned that it takes forever to rebuild a team because Shanny, Rivera etc have made that case.  But other teams actually do it fast.  It's doable.  We add a good GM and a good HC, and I think this team can be good as soon as next year.  If Howell again is good.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Veretax said:

 

I did see the Giants traded away Leonard Williams to Seattle, not sure what this means for our game against them, but the Giants look worse than us in general, despite having beaten us once already.  Frankly, I wish they'd knock philly and dallas around a bit at least.

 

Steinberg's tweet who you quoted is parody.  He goofs on the Giants FO, most of his tweets are fabricated for humor.  I recall reading they didn't restructure Adore Jackson's contract which they'd have to do to trade him so they didn't intend to trade him so i doubt that tweet is true, most of his tweets aren't.

 

Giants don't own us, but they beat us more than we beat them and at times they own us.  their off season actually yielded something versus ours which is looking historically bad right now.  Waller, Hyatt, Banks, Isaiah Simmons, Okereke, were actually key factors in beating us.  They did it with half their roster hurt.

 

But i like the foundation of this roster better than theirs.  They have the better coach, better GM IMO and most NFL observers who have ranked them agree.  But I expect that to change in our favor this offseason.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[philibusters]

Erza Cleveland was traded from Minnesota to Jacksonville for a sixth round pick.    Don't know if Jacksonville intends to extend him, but if not he seems like a slightly better version of Shaddiq Charles.  Athletic guard, who lacks physicality.   Pff has consistently graded him decent, averaging out in the high 60's (Charles has a 59 grade this season).    Could be a low key signing to watch in free agency.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Wyvern said:

The strategy of making these trades to get additional draft capital will need to be complimented by very careful review of the quality of the  scouting network that Washington uses to identify who to draft.

 

So, I am assuming there will soon some action in that area, likely as part of that group's eventual overhaul under a new GM. Otherwise Washington might not get the best value for all the new draft picks the acquired.  I remember when Scott McCloughan was trying to overhaul some of the scouting staff, and essentially got blocked by Allen with Snyder's support.  Maybe Harris should bring in former Steeler GM Colbert as a consultant for the transition work?

 

 

 

Agree.  99.99% chance this FO will be completely overhauled including the scouting.  Harris is famous for devoting resources to a FO.   So its coming.

 

Dan could care less about scouting, this team I believe was the cheapest or close to it as to paying scouting staff -- JLC among others talked about it.  Dan had a brother in arms in Bruce Allen who also believed in being cheap on this front.  Why?  Because they both were cheap and they wanted to be the defacto scouts-GMs of this team.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know give or take three people here think the roster stinks and this regime plans a complete overhaul.  Listening to Keim among others those people will likely end up disappointed.  

 

I got no sense they'd trade Terry McLaurin. Zero.  If they wanted a complete tear down they'd have traded Jonathan Allen.  From what I understand, they got trade offers for him and a good haul this week.  They didn't want to do it.

 

They simply made a business decision to keep their money on the D line around the DTs instead of the edges.  I think that's smart.  Feels easier to find pass rushers on the market at edge. 

 

With 90 million plus in cap space and 5 picks in the top 3 rounds, I don't get the vibe that the idea is a long rebuild especially if Howell ends up the goods.  If Howell is the goods and the idea is him on a cheap contract, you'd hope to be competitive soon.

 

We are conditioned that it takes forever to rebuild a team because Shanny, Rivera etc have made that case.  But other teams actually do it fast.  It's doable.  We add a good GM and a good HC, and I think this team can be good as soon as next year.  If Howell again is good.

I’m not all that sold on the roster, still. But I think we’re in the right direction. We are abysmal on the OL and LB. In those position groups our best players are backup level on most NFL teams.

 

Corner is rough, too. 
 

DL is still above average. Safeties are around average. Running backs are average. QB is currently average. Receivers are probably slightly above average. Tight ends are average or slightly below. 
 

I think coaching can bump all of those a notch.

 

And with the draft picks I think we can get another solid bump. 
 

The roster isn’t bad. It’s just not good. Not yet. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim

 

For Washington, trading Young and Sweat means the Commanders can turn their attention to quarterback Sam Howell, who has two years remaining on his rookie contract. That allows them to invest more at other spots.

The Commanders handed out big contracts to defensive tackles Jon Allen and Daron Payne in each of the past two offseasons, but the high-priced line did not result in productive play by the defense.

Washington's defense ranks 31st in scoring and 29th in yards per game. If those rankings continue, it would be the worst defensive showing in franchise history. Washington has never finished ranked in the bottom four of both points and yards since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970.

Washington does rank sixth in the league with 25 sacks, but the Commanders are 23rd in pass rush win rate. Among defensive linemen, Young ranks fifth in this area -- but none of his linemates is in the top 55.

Washington opted for Young as the No. 2 pick in the 2020 draft rather than quarterbacks Tua Tagovailoa or Justin Herbert in part because the franchise had drafted Dwayne Haskins the previous year in the first round. Although Rivera was hired in January 2020, the staff knew then-owner Dan Snyder was the one who wanted to draft Haskins.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38788085/sources-commanders-agree-trade-chase-young-49ers

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not all that sold on the roster, still. But I think we’re in the right direction. We are abysmal on the OL and LB. In those position groups our best players are backup level on most NFL teams.

 

Corner is rough, too. 
 

DL is still above average. Safeties are around average. Running backs are average. QB is currently average. Receivers are probably slightly above average. Tight ends are average or slightly below. 
 

I think coaching can bump all of those a notch.

 

And with the draft picks I think we can get another solid bump. 
 

The roster isn’t bad. It’s just not good. Not yet. 

 

The 8-8-1 record was set up to go from average to good.

 

Reason why I bailed on Ron is instead of making that climb -- he had a garbage off season. 

 

Some say well even a nothing off season should still keep them at 8-8-1?  Right?  IMO, wrong.    Other teams with good off seasons are getting better.  For example the Giants beat us mainly thanks to better coaching and Okereke, Hyatt, Banks, Isaiah Simmons (who quietly had big pressures in big moments). All off season additions. While we are waiting for Sweet and Chase to finally have a monster season, Thibodeaux in season 2 is having that kind of year.

 

Lucky for us, they don't have a QB and their O line sucks.  But they've had a better run recently in adding talent.  I bring them up because they are seen as the stepchild by many of our fans as the joke in the division.  But I think we might be the joke with our regime running things right now, not them.

 

Then we got the Lions basically with the same record as we did last year.  But they had a really good off season.  So now they are a SB contender and we suck.

 

My point is I get the vibe listening to Keim that this ownership likely digs Howell if he keeps improving.  And aren't per se looking at a long rebuild here.  Loading up on picks and cap space can work quickly if you have a competent regime, see the Lions.  Granted a new GM will have their own vision and could take things in any direction.  But if the Lions can climb fast from mediocrity, why not us?

 

And again, I know they didn't want Terry on the market and didn't want to trade Jonathan Allen.  So I don't think the few people here who wants this regime to sell them all will get what they want.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

5 hours ago, Conn said:

The game is on. Raiders fire McDaniels and their GM, name LB coach Antonio Pierce as Interim. Wow, with 4 years left on McDaniels’ deal lol. What an ill-conceived hire. 

Yeah, turns out all that hype about “The Patriot Way” was a bunch of horse****. The Patriot Way works great if you have the greatest QB of all time  playing for a fraction of what he’s worth. Otherwise, not so much.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not all that sold on the roster, still. But I think we’re in the right direction. We are abysmal on the OL and LB. In those position groups our best players are backup level on most NFL teams.

 

Corner is rough, too. 
 

DL is still above average. Safeties are around average. Running backs are average. QB is currently average. Receivers are probably slightly above average. Tight ends are average or slightly below. 
 

I think coaching can bump all of those a notch.

 

And with the draft picks I think we can get another solid bump. 
 

The roster isn’t bad. It’s just not good. Not yet. 

 

I agree with most of this.

 

Average roster.  

 

QB -- average -- I think climbing -- clearly he's the wildcard to the whole off season.  Starting anew at QB verus building around Howell is clearly the X factor in the off season as to long or fast rebuild.

 

RB -- average -- desperately need a speed back

 

WR - IMO good.  Dotson started off oddly slowly but looks like he's coming on.

 

TE -- below average

 

OL -- sucks.

 

D line -- above average even after yesterday

 

LB -- below average but can quickly be fixed, with one starter and one backup

 

S -- above average

 

CB -- average

 

Secondary though sucks so somehow like the D line the sum of its parts are lesser than the individuals.  Coaching?

 

As Keim mentioned part of the idea with letting the edge rushers go is to rebalance the spending.  FA -- sign 2 O lineman, edge rusher, a corner.  Yeah that's a lot but they have a lot of cap room.

 

Draft -- while I hate the idea of drafting to need.  But IMO they have no choice as to the O line.  2 premium picks on the O line.  Get a TE.  Get a game breaking fast RB.  LB.  Usually our wants don't meet the number of picks we have.  For the first time I can ever recall following the draft, we have enough picks to do it.

 

Clearly though we need someone sharp picking the groceries.  But I think that's going to happen.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

That's 2 sacks for Josh Harris thus far. 2 more to go.

 

Is JDR even going to try this week?? I predict he plays a basic vanilla D vs NE. Basically the swinging gate by a DC. Stop trying. "Washington's defense ranks 31st in scoring and 29th in yards per game. If those rankings continue, it would be the worst defensive showing in franchise history". Is JDR auditioning for his next gig or rolling over trying to get fired; can he even be trusted. You'd think a DC in his shoes would come out attacking the QB with nothing to lose. He should be embarrassed to have fumbled away 2 stud ends. And fired for it. Ron gave him everything and more to have a dominant D. Epic Failure.

 

I still contend D leadership hate him from his twitter rant 18 months ago I dont care that they say them love him in public.

 

Ron's indifferent to it all and will just be his usual self looking for potential reviews.

Edited November 1, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

No I think you need to Trust the Process.  If we trade all of our good players for 50 cents on the dollar and bottom out for the next five years, then we can make it to the second round of the playoffs.

 

I know this is sarcasm from you.  But we've made the 2nd round of the playoffs as the high water mark once I belive in the last 30 years or so let alone 5 out of the last 6 years for the 76ers.

 

I know its easier in basketball.  But that type of run would feel like nirvana as Galdi among others likes to joke about.  

 

He doesn't just run the 76ers but also runs the Devils.

 

Regardless, I don't put much of winning or losing on an owner.  I put on them these three things.

 

A.  Are they willing to spend?  Not just on players but everything -- equipment, facilities anything to give an edge.  Harris famous for all of that.  Dan was the worst.

 

B.  Are they willing to build a big time FO.  Spend on scouting.  Hire top guys and get out of their way.  Harris is famous for that, too.  You might not always like the hires but the intention is there.  Dan could give a rats ass about GM pedigree.  He wanted that dude to be his bud or Dan would make the moves himself.

 

C.  Are they willing to tear down and lose battles to win the war.  I know you don't like this part.  but I do.    Dan hated doing this and would never do it.  I recall that statisitican who studied this in the NFL about the power of adding draft capital and taking a step down to take bigger steps later.  He said Dan seemed taken in the moment by the data then proceeded to do the opposite because he was about winning "now".  I posted that article previously here.

 

If they do all this, the rest is up to the football Gods.  With Dan we had no shot.  With Harris we have a shot.  

 

Harris isn't calling the plays.  He's not going to get every hire right.  But I like him because his philisophy jives with mine.  Part of the reason why I don't care how much he panders or not to Ron is not just because he didn't hire Ron.  But also because Ron is like the opposite of Harris' takes in so many ways that I can gather he'd cringe at the notion of pandering to Ron.  But still in spite of that, yesterday the more I absorb various narratives the Chase Young trade was a nod to Ron. 

 

 

https://pucksandpitchforks.com/2023/08/01/new-jersey-devils-better-run-new-york-yankees/

 

How the New Jersey Devils Are Better Run than the New York Yankees

The Devils Talent

On the other hand, the Devils have an excellent core that could compete for the next decade. The Devils have guys like Jack Hughes, who is now becoming one of the best players in the league, scoring a franchise-record 99 points this past season.

 

Devils Have Better Coaching Than the Yankees

 

Devils Have a Better General Manager and Owner than the Yankees

 

https://pucksandpitchforks.com/2023/03/30/new-jersey-devils-tom-fitzgerald-deserves-gm-year-consideration/

 

New Jersey Devils: Tom Fitzgerald Deserves GM of the Year Consideration

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[justice98]

I look forward to turning on ESPN this morning to find out how this impacts the Cowboys in some way.  lol

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

No I think you need to Trust the Process.  If we trade all of our good players for 50 cents on the dollar and bottom out for the next five years, then we can make it to the second round of the playoffs.

As opposed to either losing said good players for nothing or trying to make long term deals with with good players at elite salaries.

 

You are so busy on your crusade against Harris and how he’s being Dan Jr. Over poor Ron, that you’ve completely overlooked Ron’s bashing of Chase on his way out the door.  You must be an emotional rollercoaster right now.

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

That's 2 sacks for Josh Harris thus far. 2 more to go.

 

Is JDR even going to try this week?? I predict he plays a basic vanilla D vs NE. Basically the swinging gate by a DC. Stop trying. "Washington's defense ranks 31st in scoring and 29th in yards per game. If those rankings continue, it would be the worst defensive showing in franchise history". Is JDR auditioning for his next gig or rolling over trying to get fired; can he even be trusted. You'd think a DC in his shoes would come out attacking the QB with nothing to lose. He should be embarrassed to have fumbled away 2 stud ends. And fired for it. Ron gave him everything and more to have a dominant D. Epic Failure.

 

I still contend D leadership hate him from his twitter rant 18 months ago I dont care that they say them love him in public.

 

Ron's indifferent to it all and will just be his usual self looking for potential reviews.

 

I think oddly losing the edge rushers might bring more innovation out of Del Rio.  Will see.  I doubt they go as vanilla without Sweat and Chase.

 

I'd say the story of Ron's era has been colored heavily by building a dominant D line and let them dominate games.  A D coordinator's wet dream is to not blitz that often and keep 7 in coverage.  In theory this defense seems built on that yet it doesn't deliver on that front.

 

Now they got no choice but to do it.  I think Del Rio is vanilla but also I don't think he's stupid.  if you recall we had a period when Chase and Sweat were both out and the defense seemed to play better -- and if I recall they blitzed more in that context.

 

When its leaked from this coaching staff that it might be an addition by subtraction as to Chase -- I don't get the sense listening to Keim last night that its just sarcasm.  I think they believe it.  Will see.

 

I don't absolve Ron from the D failure.  He's the one who drafted Chase #2 not Del Rio.    Now they are leaking about how Chase was the problem, etc. It was arguably their most important pick in this regime.  How many times do we pick that high?    Rivera is a defensive minded head coach.  If the scheme sucks its more on Ron IMO than Del Rio.  He hired Del Rio and if the scheme is lacking its on Ron to fix it.  

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

As opposed to either losing said good players for nothing or trying to make long term deals with with good players at elite salaries.

 

You are so busy on your crusade against Harris and how he’s being Dan Jr. Over poor Ron, that you’ve completely overlooked Ron’s bashing of Chase on his way out the door.  You must be an emotional rollercoaster right now.

 

It's hard to miss that Ron really really really behind the scenes had issues with Chase and they don't regret yesterdays trade.  Feels like the Sweat trade, they do but not Chase.

 

Sheehan saying yesterday (Sheehan is actually a big Chase guy) that he gets the vibe that if its this regime even if they don't trade Chase, they'd let him go in FA.  They were clearly done with him.

 

And look for me personally, I am in that Chase camp, too.  I am more positive on him still.  I think he will ball in SF.   I am no Chase hater.  I like him. Yet, I still am cool with the trade for the reasons you mentioned.

 

Heck a plugged in national reporter said that Chase planned to play the tag game and then hit FA ala Scherff, Kirk.  I am sick of that.  Got something for players especially those who want to leave.

 

The pick we got from the Bears is the highest we got in a trade in 27 years.  That's insane.  the third rounder ties for the best in that era.,  It's the first time ever for this organization in th modern draft era to have that many high picks.

 

How did the Lions and Eagles who were worst than us during the Ron "rebuild" era build so fast?  They accumulated picks.   And were aggressive.  How did Miami seemingly get off the mediocre treadmill?  Same thing.

 

How about us go for that ride for a change?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

Maybe Mods can rename this topic to include TRADE TALK? I mean us hardcore here figured out where the trade talk is but this sure aint free agency. It seems like we all feel neutered here in starting new topics. If Mods want us to start new threads that's fine but know many may do it at the same time and thus propose with BIG news its best if Mods create a topic and in this case move the last 20 pages from here into the new and lock this thread for a day. We will be talking about these trades for years folks.

 

Back on topic do we think Chase will hit free agency? /s

Edited November 1, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Conn]