The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, TMK9973 said:

Just a reminder to all.  5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds only matters if we draft well. Considering we have shown we can't draft in the 1st round well, Im not sure I have faith that we will.  Obviously Im banking on having a new GM and hope Im wrong. 

It's going to be pretty easy to top this last offseason.

[FlyBigBeard]

I think C. Toohill can do everything we are going to lose/miss with Sweat and CY and play a more sound game. Toohill has 4 sacks in limited action this year. And seems to keep contain/gap control and play within the "system" he's someone you can count on to just do their job. Something CY in particular had a hard time doing consistently. 

[HigSkin]

😂

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

The Commanders’ plan has come full circle — and right between the eyes

 

 

There’s a circular poetry to the latest Washington Commanders’ failure. Everything is set to end in the same place it began.

During the 2020 NFL draft, when the Commanders abandoned their franchise quarterback need and selected Chase Young No. 2 overall, they aimed to create a superpower along the defensive front just as the San Francisco 49ers had done to build a Super Bowl team after drafting Nick Bosa to their already ultra-talented unit. And now, less than 3½ seasons into the project, Washington has traded Young — to San Francisco!— for a third-round pick.

 

 

 

Ron Rivera, as the coach and personnel czar, started his tenure by making Young his first draft pick instead of quarterbacks Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert. And by the time a trade-deadline fire sale concluded Tuesday, the team had dealt Young and 2019 first-rounder Montez Sweat in moves designed to construct a future that likely doesn’t include Rivera.

Miscalculations — and poor player development — have boomeranged on the Commanders. They cannot avoid being hit right between the eyes.

During what was supposed to be an era of defensive line abundance that expedited Rivera’s effort to build a winner, the Commanders instead went 25-32-1, made one playoff appearance and never posted a winning season. In this span, their defense went from great to regressive to solid to miserable. They have allowed the second-most points in the NFL this season and the fourth-most yards, and for the remaining nine games, the Commanders (3-5) must make due without two starting defensive ends who have combined for 11½ sacks in 2023.

 

 

With a diminished pass rush, their coverage issues are about to get even uglier. When defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio had the first-round quartet of Sweat, Young and former Alabama tackles Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne, he could neither create consistent ferocity upfront nor build around them with steady play at linebacker and in the secondary. During a process that began a few years before Rivera arrived, the Commanders have used a considerable amount of their draft resources and free agency spending on the defense. The result has been a collection of mismatched talent that performs nearly every year like a collection of mismatched talent.

 

Look at the defense right now, and you see just three players that every team in the NFL would consider unquestioned keepers: Allen and Payne, who are on their second contracts; and safety Kamren Curl, a great success story of this regime as a seventh-round pick in 2020 who should be in line for a new deal. Under Rivera, Washington has drafted 16 defensive players, six of whom were taken within the first three rounds. Three are currently starters: Curl, linebacker Jamin Davis and cornerback Benjamin St. Juste.

The mediocre batting average on these prospects would be understandable, though still unsatisfactory, if they had been offensive prospects. You could rationalize it as Rivera, a coach with a defensive background who was given the keys to an entire franchise for the first time, making mistakes outside of his expertise. But Rivera came to Washington in 2020 after orchestrating a solid defensive-driven era with the Carolina Panthers, and he inherited the trio of Allen, Payne and Sweat. He had the No. 2 overall pick, and he hired Del Rio, who had a good resume as a coordinator and a reputation for deploying talent properly.

 

 

Rivera needed only to do a competent job to forge a defensive identity. However, Del Rio and the defensive staff seem behind the times on some days, and they appear unable to meet players where they are on others. The Commanders are aligned only in underperformance.

 

You may recall that I was pro-Young before the 2020 draft. I thought Rivera and Del Rio would unlock all his athletic brilliance, and he would become a homegrown face of the franchise, a kind of game-altering presence who would be so hard to block that the entire D-line would benefit. I was wrong, obviously.

 

But here’s the disturbing part about this failure: Young isn’t a bust. He hasn’t turned out to be Bosa with golden dreadlocks, but he’s a 24-year-old with 14 career sacks in 34 games. Injuries have cost him the equivalent of 1½ seasons, but he’s back to disruptive productivity now. Sweat, whom the Commanders traded to the Chicago Bears for a second-round pick, can really play. Allen is a star, and there are few interior linemen who play the way Payne does. Yet for 3½ seasons, they were just intriguing loose parts that never became a machine.

 

There was rarely any imagination or connectivity in the manner that they rushed.

They didn’t make each other better, and they might thrive now that they’re apart. Washington was right to move on, and the front office did a solid job salvaging an extra second- and third-round pick out of two players scheduled for free agency after this season. But overall, the personal and organizational shortcomings are astounding. Possibility turned into a letdown far too easily.

 

...In his hometown, a familiar word beckons: rebuilding. It will be the first major project of the new Josh Harris ownership group, and depending on how the Commanders finish, the assignment may or may not be a complete teardown. But make no mistake what the trades of Young and Sweat signal: The future is more important than scuffling through the present.

Harris isn’t interested in applying some duct tape and hiding the truth. For this to be a new era, the Commanders need a new standard.

On Tuesday, that meant stockpiling draft picks. Rivera is left with less as he tries to save his job. Then again, after reflecting on how he fared with abundance, it seems he has allowed his future to be decided.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/31/washington-commanders-trades-ron-rivera/

Edited October 31, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[@DCGoldPants]

30 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Leaked? Del Rio said that to the media last year how Chase doesn't do his job/assignment like he is asked to do so. So looks like that is still going on since he hasn't done anything special this year. We actually had a better D last year without Chase. That should tell you something or everything about him. 

 

Referring to this:

 

 

 

 

#1. **** Jack. Talk about a guy who doesn't do his job.

#2. At this point if it was Jack who said it....again. Then put his name on it. Going as a "team source" here after it's been said before is stupid. You don't need to say anything even if it's all true and they really do believe it's addition by subtraction. The most you say is you wish it had worked out better. That's it. 

[MartinC]

51 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

we already declined that option

 

Young will cost SF about half a million the rest of the way

This might be wrong but I think although we may have declined it the 49ers have that option. That’s was Sportac are showing anyway.

 

[clskinsfan]

43 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Not a fan on slandering Chase on the way out. Especially when it’s clearly coming from Ron based on the author of that article. Pretty gross honestly. Even if it’s all likely true. 

Yeah. I agree its not a good look. Makes me think some of the other leaks over the past few years were coming from people we didnt think were leaking. 

[Conn]

 

[philibusters]

Looking at big name free agent Edge players next year, so guys who could be free agents (some of them will be resigned and won't hit free agency) are

Danielle Hunter

Carl Lawson

Marcus Davenport

Za'Darius Smith

Josh Allen (doubt Jacksonville lets him make to fee agency)

Derek Barnett

Brian Burns (if Carolina doesn't sign him its because he wants 30 million a deal and while he is good, I don't think he is good enough to warrant that because he is an elite pass defender and below average run defender)

Clellin Ferrell

Jadaveon Clowney

Yetur Gross-Matos

AJ Espensa

Josh Uche

Leonard Floyd

Jonathan Greenard

Michael Danna

 

Of course we still have three potential free agents ourselves in James Smith Williams, Efe Obada, and Casey Toohill

 

To me the Tier 1 guys in that group are Danielle Hunter, Za'Darius Smith, Josh Allen, and Brian Burns.  I don't think Allen or Burns makes it to free agency.

 

The middle tier would be Marcus Davenport, Carl Lawson, AJ Espensa, Jadaveon Clowney

 

Everybody else on the list is a decent player, but only project as a low level starter or pass rush specialist only (not three down player).

 

Assuming we want to keep 5 DE's on the roster and we draft 1 and KJ Henry, and Andre Jones make the teams, that means you only can take two of the names above.  To me, you have to shot for the top tier or the middle tier to make it worthwhile.  Otherwise just bring back James Smith Williams and Casey Toohill as guys 4 and 5. If you can land a Danielle Hunter or even a mid tier guy like AJ Espensa or Marcus Davenport I would be okay with say like Obada and Toohill walk, but if we just going to get a low end starter we might as bring back the guys we already have and who are good lucky room guys.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

40 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Not a fan on slandering Chase on the way out. Especially when it’s clearly coming from Ron based on the author of that article. Pretty gross honestly. Even if it’s all likely true. 

I have zero doubts that it’s true.

 

However, it’s on Ron and Jack for continuing to give snaps to a player doing those things.  Not a good look for him no matter how he wants to play it.  He drafted him and tolerated his BS.

 

Many of the local sports personalities have alluded to off the field Chase stuff for a long while, but none have ever been public with the details for whatever reasons.  Their sources are likely players and coaches.

 

 

[BleedBNG]

21 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

And the meat that goes with those potatoes is that those picks won't be made by Ron & Friends.

Thank goodness. Martin you were a good CB but as a GM?

[Rufus T Firefly]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

This might be wrong but I think although we may have declined it the 49ers have that option. That’s was Sportac are showing anyway.

 

No, the fifth year option is dead. It needed to be picked up last offseason. SF can't do anything about that.

[NoVaSkins21]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The process has started. I expect more trades next offseason.  Probably only keeping one between Payne and Allen.

I can see Terry gone also. 
 

They are going blow things up.

Trade deadline has passed.  Why get rid of a cornerstone guy who recently signed an extension like Payne and Allen.  Doesn't make sense

[clskinsfan]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Under Rivera, Washington has drafted 16 defensive players, six of whom were taken within the first three rounds. Three are currently starters: Curl, linebacker Jamin Davis and cornerback Benjamin St. Juste.

This right here is just disgusting. And it is what is ending Rivera. The only good things I can say about Rivera is he took a chance on Sam Howell in the 5th. And he scored with Curl in the 7th. Other than that he has been abysmal. 

[veteranskinsfan]

I really like the anonymous quote about Chase Young trade- "addition by subtraction".  When I think of his impact while he was here that is the phrase that rings true.

He was free-lancing even before he got injured.  He was not a team player.  His career performance with Commanders reminds me of all the hype that LaVar Arrington

had and he never was able to deliver.

[Rufus T Firefly]

8 minutes ago, philibusters said:

Looking at big name free agent Edge players next year, so guys who could be free agents (some of them will be resigned and won't hit free agency) are

Danielle Hunter

Carl Lawson

Marcus Davenport

Za'Darius Smith

Josh Allen (doubt Jacksonville lets him make to fee agency)

Derek Barnett

Brian Burns (if Carolina doesn't sign him its because he wants 30 million a deal and while he is good, I don't think he is good enough to warrant that because he is an elite pass defender and below average run defender)

Clellin Ferrell

Jadaveon Clowney

Yetur Gross-Matos

AJ Espensa

Josh Uche

Leonard Floyd

Jonathan Greenard

Michael Danna

 

Of course we still have three potential free agents ourselves in James Smith Williams, Efe Obada, and Casey Toohill

 

To me the Tier 1 guys in that group are Danielle Hunter, Za'Darius Smith, Josh Allen, and Brian Burns.  I don't think Allen or Burns makes it to free agency.

 

The middle tier would be Marcus Davenport, Carl Lawson, AJ Espensa, Jadaveon Clowney

 

Everybody else on the list is a decent player, but only project as a low level starter or pass rush specialist only (not three down player).

 

Assuming we want to keep 5 DE's on the roster and we draft 1 and KJ Henry, and Andre Jones make the teams, that means you only can take two of the names above.  To me, you have to shot for the top tier or the middle tier to make it worthwhile.  Otherwise just bring back James Smith Williams and Casey Toohill as guys 4 and 5. If you can land a Danielle Hunter or even a mid tier guy like AJ Espensa or Marcus Davenport I would be okay with say like Obada and Toohill walk, but if we just going to get a low end starter we might as bring back the guys we already have and who are good lucky room guys.

I wouldn't mind adding Espensa or Barnett if the price was right. No interest in older guys. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Dude has hated him since that second season and it’s been obvious. Ron is just not a good coach and having a very obvious very personal beef with one of the most talented players you ever drafted is a tell tale sign that it’s over. 

I’m not condoning a hit piece on his way out because I prefer the high road.  Ron clearly has no business being employed as a football czar of a pro franchise, but it’s likely if he has personal beef with Young - it’s warranted.  There have been crumbs dropped by the local folks regarding this for years.  I expect a ton more to come out over the next few days.

 

 

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I have to think Young was a cancer on this team. 

Damn Ron beat cancer twice in his time here 🫡 

[KillBill26]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

No offense but people being willing to honestly trash this organization after they left is one of the main reasons why we finally have a new owner. It wasn’t just big scandals, Snyder was surviving those. It was a lack of fan interest and diving profits that you can trace to a steady drumbeat of everyone from cheerleaders to coaches to media members never letting him off the hook. Death by a thousand cuts. Every bit helped. 

I can't argue with that.  Snyder selling was something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime, and I'm so thankful it happened.  I should be grateful to all who helped make it happen.

 

 

 

(I'm still not rooting for Kyle, rationality be damned lol)

[Stihl89]

Looking at the FA class for 24. It’s not good right now. Will have to rely on cuts. Maybe they’ll restructure some contracts to be front loaded to make certain players easier to trade 

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Like it or not, Ron Rivera and his coaches and front office and Chase Young and Montez Sweat are all real people.  How badly do you hate the guy to not see that?  I don't buy this argument that Harris can be a ****ty owner to Ron because he didn't hire him.  I don't buy into the sentiment that it's whatever because I didn't like Ron.  How are you going to feel when Harris does something like this to a front office you don't dislike?  Guess what, I didn't like the job Ron did either.  But that is no justification for Harris to be a ****ty, toxic, meddlesome owner.

 

Harris owns this bag of ****.  I don't want to see anyone trying to pin this **** on Ron in three years when they realize what a mistake this all was.

Oh were you subletting your account to someone else 6-8 weeks ago? 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[London Kev]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

So what are our top needs for those 3 picks in the top 50 selections?

 

1. OT is clearly the big need and probably BPA pick as well in the first round (assuming we pick top 10 which looks likely).

2. DE now becomes a need

3. ILB - still probably the weakest part of the D.

4. CB - Forbes is struggling badly and Fuller is a free agent. St Juste has had a down year as well overall. 

5. G - LG is still not solved. Stromberg is probably more of C than G.

6. RB/3rd down back - Gibson wont be back. 

7. TE - Thomas is having a decent year but he's not really a threat to go vertical down a seam anymore. 

 

 

I want us to fo exactly what I (and many others) wanted us to do this off season; two OL and a LB with the 1st three picks, preferable with an OL first.

[Dark Acre]

26 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

This right here is just disgusting. And it is what is ending Rivera. The only good things I can say about Rivera is he took a chance on Sam Howell in the 5th. And he scored with Curl in the 7th. Other than that he has been abysmal. 

Well, to be fair, he also hasn't cut the punter when the team has a bad game.

[London Kev]

38 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

 

Damn, that's virtually a 4th round pick!