The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Try Ctrl - Shift - Escape next time, like a good QB when a play breaks down

Oh, I like this...

 

*writes it down*

[JSSkinz]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim thought it might end up a short term rental too but SF had enough picks where it’s OK. 
 

I know Bosa and Chase are friends and at one point Bosa wanted to help Chase in the off season. I think it will be a good marriage for Chase for now 

Who knows but they don't seem like team that wants to stack too much cap space at one position and Bosa being there is the main reason I think it makes it tough for a long term deal. Plus they might need to get a QB in free agency next year if Purdy ends up nose diving.

[Stihl89]

3 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

What benefit would there be to getting rid of Terry?  He and Sam have a good rapport and he's a locker room leader.  He's the #1 WR here and it's not like he wants out anyway.

By the time the team is good he’ll >30. That’s why you trade him. Trade him a year early vs a year late 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, JSSkinz said:

Who knows but they don't seem like team that wants to stack too much cap space at one position and Bosa being there is the main reason I think it makes it tough for a long term deal. Plus they might need to get a QB in free agency next year if Purdy ends up nose diving.

Yeah and they can likely get the pick back in 2025 as a comp 

[method man]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah and they can likely get the pick back in 2025 as a comp 

Yep. They are not going to keep him and it should be obvious now that Chase is not getting $25M a year in free agency with that knee. They are looking at probably a 4th or 5th round comp pick 

[NoVaSkins21]

1 minute ago, Stihl89 said:

By the time the team is good he’ll >30. That’s why you trade him. Trade him a year early vs a year late 

Depends on when you think the team will be good.  If they get the right GM, HC, and coaching staff, it won't be that long.  

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, method man said:

Yep. They are not going to keep him and it should be obvious now that Chase is not getting $25M a year in free agency with that knee. They are looking at probably a 4th or 5th round comp pick 

Yeah it was one of the things in the soup mentioned by Keim as for why the market wasn’t robust for him, the knee 

[method man]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah it was one of the things in the soup mentioned by Keim as for why the market wasn’t robust for him, the knee 

Not only will his AAV be lower than he thinks but I’m not sure he gets a multiyear deal either.

[CapsSkins]

16 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

By the time the team is good he’ll >30. That’s why you trade him. Trade him a year early vs a year late 

 

I do see the logic here. Terry is 28 years old and close to the peak of his trade value. It would be painful but depending on the return, I think they should at least consider it.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Listening to John it sounded like the team just wanted to move on from Young come what may. John Keim suggested they would have taken less than they got from Young.

Yeah looks like they were determined to move on from Chase 

[PeterMP]

You can hold onto Terry until the offseason.  You'll probably get more for him than because more teams will be in play probably and teams that trade for him can take that into account in getting that straight vs. now only really contending teams and teams with cap space can/are likely to trade him.

 

He also have value in terms of helping Howell develop.  Having a good WR is useful when you have a young QB.  So that gives him more value to us vs. a DL.

[dunfer]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah looks like they were determined to move on from Chase 

Im sure we offered chase to chicago. they said nah

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

You can hold onto Terry until the offseason.  You'll probably get more for him than because more teams will be in play probably and teams that trade for him can take that into account in getting that straight vs. now only really contending teams and teams with cap space can/are likely to trade him.

 

He also have value in terms of helping Howell develop.  Having a good WR is useful when you have a young QB.  So that gives him more value to us vs. a DL.

 

You'd probably move Terry closer to the draft when another wave of deals get done. And it would depend on what the team did during free agency.

[Veretax]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

However, it’s on Ron and Jack for continuing to give snaps to a player doing those things.  Not a good look for him no matter how he wants to play it.  He drafted him and tolerated his BS.

 

Honestly I think that's actually not correct, but let me explain.  If the attitude issues were being addressed, before the injury, or while he was still working back in, maybe, just maybe Ron would have had some panache here.  But If its true that harris says I'll give you till the trade deadline to prove these guys can all play, and that didn't happen, then Ron had little choice but to play personnel matchup issues.  Which means he couldn't sit Young without making it look like weren't actually using him.  Because if he sits young, we don't get draft pick compensation anywhere near that hight.  It sucks to bein that position, but I feel the previous owner/FO combo forced them to play young too early.

 

[method man]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

You'd probably move Terry closer to the draft when another wave of deals get done. And it would depend on what the team did during free agency.

The question is, outside of Marvin Harrison Jr, what is the feel for this draft class at receiver? Higgins and Ridley are FAs so you are competing with that.

 

Ultimately, although Terry is at his peak, you don’t move him. Sam needs a #1 receiver to succeed, especially without a great offensive line

[Veretax]

I don't think Terry is the issue.  I think Logan not being able to stay healthy is causing issues.  And the other tight end prospects have really not been anything great to write about from what I could tell.  I think Samuel has a niche in this offense, but not sure how much longer we keep him.  Dotson is a keeper I think, but we need 3 WR and a TE that can catch and block.  but Sam may not have time to find the 3rd WR right now because the OL has played worse than I dunno what.

[CapsSkins]

3 minutes ago, method man said:

The question is, outside of Marvin Harrison Jr, what is the feel for this draft class at receiver? Higgins and Ridley are FAs so you are competing with that.

 

Ultimately, although Terry is at his peak, you don’t move him. Sam needs a #1 receiver to succeed, especially without a great offensive line

 

I'd maybe try to trade Terry to the Bengals for Tee Higgins, who's ~3.5 years younger and hasn't yet agreed to an extension.

[method man]

2 minutes ago, Veretax said:

I don't think Terry is the issue.  I think Logan not being able to stay healthy is causing issues.  And the other tight end prospects have really not been anything great to write about from what I could tell.  I think Samuel has a niche in this offense, but not sure how much longer we keep him.  Dotson is a keeper I think, but we need 3 WR and a TE that can catch and block.  but Sam may not have time to find the 3rd WR right now because the OL has played worse than I dunno what.

I like Samuel but you shouldn’t keep him. Need to let Jahan be the full time slot receiver and sign a Pittman Jr or Evans or trade for a Sutton or Tim Patrick type as a bigger outside receiver

27 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I do see the logic here. Terry is 28 years old and close to the peak of his trade value. It would be painful but depending on the return, I think they should at least consider it.

In some cases, you just have to be okay with assets depreciating and Terry is one of those cases

[MartinC]

35 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I do see the logic here. Terry is 28 years old and close to the peak of his trade value. It would be painful but depending on the return, I think they should at least consider it.

Big dead cap if we trade Terry. Or Payne.

 

Plus Terry is the kind of receiver you want around a young QB. Not only is he very very good he’s a great ‘glue’ guy who is not going to piss and moan if he’s not getting the ball.

[CapsSkins]

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Big dead cap if we trade Terry. Or Payne.

 

Plus Terry is the kind of receiver you want around a young QB. Not only is he very very good he’s a great ‘glue’ guy who is not going to piss and moan if he’s not getting the ball.

 

Pre-6/1 trade for Terry results in net cap savings in 2024 and no future dead cap.

 

 

Edit: unless your point is there would nevertheless be a $16.8M cap hit on the books, which is true. If it was trading for someone like Tee Higgins, they'd have to get creative to minimize the year 1 cap hit *or* just eat the charge for 2024.

 

If you're looking to get younger and have more players on rookie contracts, that should be doable. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by CapsSkins

[MartinC]

8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Pre-6/1 trade for Terry results in net cap savings in 2024 and no future dead cap.

 

 

Edit: unless your point is there would nevertheless be a $16.8M cap hit on the books, which is true. If it was trading for someone like Tee Higgins, they'd have to get creative to minimize the year 1 cap hit *or* just eat the charge for 2024.

 

If you're looking to get younger and have more players on rookie contracts, that should be doable. 

It was the dead cap left I was looking at. But actually I had not netted off the cap saving - so you’re left with that 16.8 number.

 

I don’t know we are doing a complete tear down. I still think we much better coaching, a good offseason and a full year under a still developing Sam Howells belt we can be a good team quickly. I would not move Terry.

[Skinsinparadise]

Tuesday’s trade deadline shows that the Commanders are no longer interested in simply fielding a team good enough to accidentally make the playoffs every few years and lose in the first round. Dealing Young and Sweat for mid-round capital shows designs for a rebuild of greater scale and scope than we’ve seen from Washington. All around the NFL, teams have cared enough to rip their rosters down to the studs—some more maniacally than others—in an effort to one day produce something better than average.

With new ownership came that promise. It feels like Washington can dream bigger and may finally do so.

It’s not just about the picks. Young’s return was a third-round pick from the 49ers, and Sweat generated a second-round pick from the Bears. As the draft currently stands right now, Washington will have seven picks in the top 150. It’s about flexibility.

Dealing Sweat and Young shows a willingness to be financially unburdened. It also forecasts an intention to be intellectually unburdened. This personnel setup in Washington found and developed some good players, but if Sweat and Young, both first-round picks, were so unquestionably good, then they would have been locked up long-term already or they would have commanded higher draft capital. If the thought processes that led to putting this defense together and coordinating this defense and calling plays for this defense was so good, then Washington would have had more than two O.K.-to-pretty-good seasons on that side of the ball over the past four years.

And so, it’s time to move on.

 

...So we can tip a cap while also, for the first time, looking longingly into the future. Washington has a different kind of hands-on ownership now. That much had to be evident Tuesday.

Moving forward, the goal for new Commanders ownership should be to make the current product look as unfamiliar as possible. To act differently. To lead differently. Hopefully, they will cull some lessons on grace from Rivera, but it’s not hard to understand why this version of the roster cannot be the starting point, the foundation. It’s both incredible that the Commanders nearly beat the Eagles twice this year given what we know of their past and not good enough given what we believe is possible for the future.

In that way, the Young and Sweat trades are as symbolic as they are calculated. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

It was the dead cap left I was looking at. But actually I had not netted off the cap saving - so you’re left with that 16.8 number.

 

I don’t know we are doing a complete tear down. I still think we much better coaching, a good offseason and a full year under a still developing Sam Howells belt we can be a good team quickly. I would not move Terry.

 

So here's the question for you: would you rather have a 29 year old Terry McLaurin or a 25/26 year old Tee Higgins next year in year 1 of the new regime as WR1 with a 24 year old Sam Howell & 24 year old Jahan Dotson? 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by CapsSkins

[Rufus T Firefly]

The argument to consider moving Terry is that he'll be in his 30s and with really big cap numbers by the time this team could be contending. It still would need to be a real big offer. Supposedly Carolina is pretty desperate for a #1 Wr. Would they give their 1 in 25 (which could still be really high) plus Derrick Brown for Terry and say Mathis and a mid rounder? Probably not, but that's the kind of thing I'd consider. And then flip Allen for another 1 with Brown taking his spot? Those would eb the types of moves it'd be smart to do as a rebuilding team, but again, just throwing things out there that probably wouldn't happen. 

 

I'm likely more open to it than some becuase I really see Howell as a good, maybe very good QB but not elite and that doesn't thrill me going forward. But that's me. 

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

So here's the question for you: would you rather have a 29 year old Terry McLaurin or a 25/26 year old Tee Higgins next year as year 1 of the new regime as WR1 with a 24 year old Sam Howell & 24 year old Jahan Dotson? 

Higgins hasn’t played well so far this season plus he’s benefited from playing opposite Chase. He’s got size though and we lack that.

 

I would keep Terry personally.