Next Day Thread: Giants I: Keep it Medium

[Warhead36]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He KINDA reminds me of Doug Flutie.  Flutie just made things happen, would go long stretches of being “meh” and then have some wow plays.  Teammates loved him.  But he wasn’t great overall.  
 

He was even benched for the playoffs for Rob Johnson after playing much of the year.  
 

Flutie had a bigger arm but was short.  Also Flutie probably was a little more mobile. 
 

That and the back half of the Tebow magic carpet ride are the only things I can think of

Flutie was a much more legitimate talent. 

 

I think Tebow is a more apt comparison when it comes to just being bad but the team somehow winning, but the playstyles aren't really the same. Tebow legitimately could not throw the ball at all.

[NoCalMike]

The calls missed against the NYG seemed so egregious it feels more like the penalties were ignored than missed.  How does a helmet roll by an official and he just casually strolls by it like nothing is strange.  The holding of Sweat on that run, it isn't even subtle as the blocker is grabbing his jerseys with both hands, arms stretched out.......like what is going on here?

[Voice_of_Reason]

28 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Ron is fine with Taylor though.

He can’t bench him, nor should he, so what’s he going to say?

11 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The calls missed against the NYG seemed so egregious it feels more like the penalties were ignored than missed.  How does a helmet roll by an official and he just casually strolls by it like nothing is strange.  The holding of Sweat on that run, it isn't even subtle as the blocker is grabbing his jerseys with both hands, arms stretched out.......like what is going on here?

The non-call on the Davis face mask during the Eagles game on the turnover was worse (good for us) than any call which went against us, and on a turnover. 

26 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Leaky Oline? What were you watching VOR? How about we play a game? How many sacks, hits, pressures did our weak ass ****ty QB have yesterday? How many times was there 3 olineman blocking one dude while three rushed free? Is there a PFF stat for linemen looking like they have no clue what they are doing. We have a stat for almost picks but not for whoops forgot to block anyone on this play. Funny ****..defend your hills boys and girls. We are in the playoff hunt after starting 1-4.  

I have no idea what you are getting at…

[Voice_of_Reason]

31 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

They know TH is far more mobile than Wentz, so why doesn't Turner draw up/call some designed roll-outs, maybe a QB run or 2 if coverage dictates. 

Because he’s not good throwing on designed rollouts.  Never has been, never will be.  
 

He’s good on the outsiders in a scramble drill.

 

Hes never been good at designed runs.  
 

Also, since we run the ball a million times with our RBs + Samuel, I’m. It sure we need more running plays.

[tmandoug1]

14 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Hung his pass catchers out to dry again.

Increased his turnover worthy plays

Continued to miss wide open players

 

His game against the giants was a terrible game overall. Fits right in w/ the rest of his play as well.

 

He is not giving us average or mediocre QB play. He is giving us dumpster fire levels of QB play.

 

I have all the confidence in the world that Wentz pr Howell can step in and be at least a terrible QB, and that would be an upgrade over what we are currently getting.

 

You had Wentz and he was 1 and 4 with a starting oline. You got dumpster fire and he is 6-1-1....take it every day all day.

[RandyHolt]

[tmandoug1]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I have no idea what you are getting at…

Our Oline sucks? Sorry...should have just said that from the beginning. I tend to get wordy.

[NoCalMike]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He can’t bench him, nor should he, so what’s he going to say?

The non-call on the Davis face mask during the Eagles game on the turnover was worse (good for us) than any call which went against us, and on a turnover. 

I have no idea what you are getting at…

 

Was the face-mask call missed though?  Meaning, did the officials see it and ignore it or were they simply out of position to see it due to how it happened?   A helmet literally rolling on the ground by an official seems pretty hard to ignore even if the official didn't see how the helmet ended up on the turf.  Also, that holding on Sweat being missed, you mean to tell me two players isolated away from everyone else, don't have any officials' eyes on them to see the holding?

 

I don't mean ignored like the officials simply didn't care and purposely didn't call it, I am more wondering how they did not notice either infraction.

Edited December 6, 2022 by NoCalMike

[FootballZombie]

7 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

You had Wentz and he was 1 and 4 with a starting oline. You got dumpster fire and he is 6-1-1....take it every day all day.

 

TH got there in the back of an Uber.

Lets not pretend otherwise.

[tomwvr]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

It was easy for me to bash.

He struggled even more yesterday then he did in previous weeks.

He also somehow managed to increase his turnover worthy play rate, which was already basically the highest in the NFL.

 

Dude was not just bad but absolutely terrible for the vast majority of the game. Celebrating a couple of good plays is like being happy a basketball player goes 2 for 14 from 3.

I don't care about the rare good play if he is beyond godawful the majority of the time, which TH was.

 

In practically every conceivable metric he is terrible. Dude is a horrendous QB. Not bad. Not awful. Almost impossibly horrendous.

If you listen to the guys that watch football for money and rate how they do most of them would say you are way off base.  As i have said over and over taylor is a good back up but the amount of comments like yours make so many fans think you really cant see reality through your hate for someones play. 

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He can’t bench him, nor should he, so what’s he going to say?

The non-call on the Davis face mask during the Eagles game on the turnover was worse (good for us) than any call which went against us, and on a turnover. 

I have no idea what you are getting at…

And ripping of a helmet was far worse than that face mask in the eagles game. The face mask was in a crowd and missed the helmet being ripped off was in the open and right in front of the ref

[tomwvr]

25 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

TH got there in the back of an Uber.

Lets not pretend otherwise.

And the uber was better than the suv wentz drove. 
and wentz will be gone next year a complete waist of 28 million dollars this year. Its now two years in a row that rons chosen qb failed and we had to play a guy that is a marginal qb in the nfl that somehow gets the team behind him

[El Mexican]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He sucked minus 3 or 4 plays.  

 

He sucked bc our OLine sucked even more.

 

Let's be honest.

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

In practically every conceivable metric he is terrible. Dude is a horrendous QB. Not bad. Not awful. Almost impossibly horrendous.

 

The terrible play of the O-Line can't be ignored, though.

 

 

[Playaction2Sanders]

It was nice to see Samuels and Han getting involved in the passing game, run game did its thing. The 90 yard drive to tie the game was clutch but I guess at the cost of some bum calls in OT. Offensively though I think they are getting more confident..

 

Defensively, better second half. It does drive me nuts how Daniel Jones continues to find ways to drive us crazy. We're always a step behind him when he scrambles. I feel he could have had a ton more yards rushing than he did. The fact he threw basically no incompletions till what late in the 4th is insane. I have no clue if his lack of production is due to lack of talent around him or this is the best he's gonna be even with it..

 

Tie's suck. Should have a NHL Soccer equivalent of a shootout between kickers and have them decide.. Put the ball on the 33, just the LS, the holder and kicker and trade 50 yarders if OT doesn't decide the winner. Whoever does the best outta 5 wins or continue till you have a winner.. Puts more demand on having an elite kicker

[Voice_of_Reason]

41 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

He sucked bc our OLine sucked even more.

 

Let's be honest.

 

The terrible play of the O-Line can't be ignored, though.

 

 

The OL was awful.

 

But TH was bad in his own right.  When he did have time he missed guys.

 

The thing is, he hasn’t really been above average in any game.  He’s mostly been awful with 2-3 good plays a game, and 1-2 horrendous ones.  As long as that ratio continues, and the defense plays well and they run the snot out of the ball, they can win close games. 
 

Against the Giants he didn’t make plays when he could have, he had a bad lost fumble, and the bad plays outweighed the good.  

He’s a competitor and the team likes him.  Great.  That doesn’t make him Joe Montana.  

[BleedBNG]

 

 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, skins island connection said:

They know TH is far more mobile than Wentz, so why doesn't Turner draw up/call some designed roll-outs, maybe a QB run or 2 if coverage dictates. 

We all know TH isn't the answer { unless he suddenly develops a strong arm } but RR isn't gonna pull him unless he's throwing 3-4 picks/game. This is a situation where the fault falls on Turner and Turner only. He knows TH's abilities/liabilities and we've all seen him bolt out and take off running on any given play, so the threat of him doing this would help freeze LBers and give him a much clearer view of the field. I don't see how short QBs can see through both lines battling up front, but he can throw on the run.

 

@KDawghas covered the bolded part so many times. He must be so fed up that he's taking a shot of liquor every time someone brings it up by now.

Edited December 6, 2022 by mistertim

[skinny21]

24 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

 

 

For me, one of those was an egregious miss - the first play overthrow.  Had time in the pocket, his man was wide open and he blew it… and it was for a td.  Can’t miss that one.

2nd worst, IMO, was the high throw to Cam - gotta put that one to the sideline, lead the receiver.  Terrible pass, though there was a bit of pressure at least (vs the miss to Thomas).

Missed Gibson for sure.

I have trouble faulting him too much on the overthrow to Samuel - had to get it over the defender.  It’s a miss, but a tight window and he missed by inches.

Don’t see how anyone can hold the (innacurate) jump pass to Dotson, while he’s wrapped up no less, against him.

 

The other 3 throws, I think I have more trouble with him throwing into such tight coverage.  I’d be curious how others see those 3.

 

In his defense, he faced a fair bit of pressure on a number of those.  And I gotta say, I expected a longer clip.  8 throws (really 7, IMO) out of 41 and just one that was deflected for a near pick… I definitely expected more.  Were these just some examples?

 

Not included in the clip, but that completion to Terry (short left, I believe on the game tying drive?) scared the hell out of me.  Threw it way high, but in the end, he managed to avoid the defender.  It worked, but yikes.  

 

I haven’t noticed him sailing many passes this year, prior to this game.  Hopefully it was just the pass rush getting to him, throwing off his mechanics.  Of course, if the oline takes a step backward (as they did Sunday) due to injuries, the sledding’s not gonna get any easier after the bye.

[NFC Beast1987]

18 hours ago, Zim489 said:

On the spike In overtime before the FG attempt Toohill was literally lined up on the giants side of the ball and they didn’t call it. It would have made it a 53 harder and Gano makes that FG. 
 

The reffing overall wasn’t good it let’s not paint it like it was only one way 

Bro what was he thinking?? They were clearly about to spike the ball... Like what was he trying to accomplish being lined up anywhere near the line of scrimmage? That reminded me of Ridgeway roughing the snapper on a chip shot FG where we had no chance of blocking it. Sometimes our situational awareness is shockingly lacking. Like, the downside of you getting called for this penalty FAR outweighs whatever benefit you are trying to obtain lol

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

@KDawghas covered the bolded part so many times. He must be so fed up that he's taking a shot of liquor every time someone brings it up by now.

I cry at night.

[RandyHolt]

6 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

...

 

Tie's suck. Should have a NHL Soccer equivalent of a shootout between kickers and have them decide.. Put the ball on the 33, just the LS, the holder and kicker and trade 50 yarders if OT doesn't decide the winner. Whoever does the best outta 5 wins or continue till you have a winner.. Puts more demand on having an elite kicker

And finally have some sort of justification to call our beloved sport "Football". Convince the world its not a troll job nor attempting to convert global Futbol fans to American Football and to come have a looksee.

 

And it's Hans.

Edited December 6, 2022 by RandyHolt

[KDawg]

On another note: The hand wringing about officiating is exhausting. I get it in the heat of the moment. As a coach I have had my fair share of asking referees what they are looking at on the field. So I get it. Then again I have literally seen rules change from game to game at the HS level (OL can/can't lace on XP).

 

But the officiating has helped and hurt us. Refs are going to miss calls and make bad calls. They missed a few yesterday for both sides. They made bad calls a few times yesterday for both sides. At the end of the day, our team has to execute and not worry about officiating. We as fans can hand wring, and I'm not even saying we/fans are wrong about the bad calls in all circumstances, but at the end of the day if your team plays well enough the calls just simply don't matter.

 

Sometimes I catch myself typing something about a call and I realize I look like a schmuck when I do it. So I wait for a replay, watch it again and then realize why the ref made the call they made for the most part. If I sit on it a minute and think about it and I still have questions I say it. But very rarely does that occur. I don't know. It's a forum, people can post how they want. But I think taking a step back is important for the health of the forum sometimes. Having said that, I think the majority of the posting in this thread about the calls has been intelligently done. A few off-hand bits of silliness, but for the most part it's been conversation which has been solid. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Because he’s not good throwing on designed rollouts.  Never has been, never will be.  
 

He’s good on the outsiders in a scramble drill.

 

Hes never been good at designed runs.  
 

Also, since we run the ball a million times with our RBs + Samuel, I’m. It sure we need more running plays.

It's been so long I can't recall the plays but he clearly made plays with his running in the playoff game. Not sure if they were designed runs or off schedule plays, probably both, but he showed he can make plays with his feet. Why won't he escape the pocket and scramble for 9 on 3rd and 7 like so many other QBs do?  Instead he stands in the pocket like Peyton Manning and never uses one of his biggest assets.    

Edited December 6, 2022 by Darrell Green Fan

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

It's been so long I can't recall the plays but he clearly made plays with his running in the playoff game. Not sure if they were designed runs or off schedule plays, probably both, but he showed he can make plays with his feet. Why won't he escape the pocket and scramble for 9 on 3rd and 7 like so many other QBs do?  Instead he stands in the pocket like Peyton Manning.  

 

They don't run a lot of RO plays but when he does (as Keim among others points out) he doesn't keep the ball so they don't work since the defense knows to just focus on the RB.  It's amazinfg how allergic he is to running.  As a runner, he's the opposite of who he was in his debut game with tampa in the playoffs.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

RE: officiating

 

You get some, some go against you.  Not always equal in each game, but over time it generally evens out.  We’ve been beneficiaries of officiating this season as well as on the other side.
 

But the bottom line is we had opportunities to win the game and didn’t.  It’s that simple.  

[Skinsfan1311]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The ref and Turner griping was the main theme in the game day thread.  

"griping?" 

On ES?

Say it isn't so!