Next Day Thread: Giants I: Keep it Medium

[NeverSurrender]

2 hours ago, CommanderCarson said:

Wait let me get this straight. So it’s been continually proposed that Wentz would open up the offense a bit more, give us a more explosive offense, and he could operate the same exact same gameplan and hand the ball off a bunch of times and be more successful doing it, since again, Wentz would be able to open up the offense more AND we’d have an elite running game. 
 

But as soon as someone makes the point that Wentz would have ultimately likely taken more sacks, all of a sudden it’s pointless how X player would do in Y situation? 
 

No one is saying that Wentz can’t take a handoff and will trip all over himself, what we are saying is that the line was really really bad on Sunday and heineke is giving this particular team which CAN run the ball well (even if not explosively cause said O line) and play great defense, a chance to win each and every week. Which he’s done. And is an absolute fact at this point in time. 
 

If I’m being honest, throwing straight up false claims to belittle the other side is EXACTLY what is being chastised on this forum and QB thread in particular. Not one person, especially every other post, is dropping in to say LOLZ WENTZ CANT TIE HIS SHOES AND SUCKS GO HEINEKE.” I thought we were trying to avoid that type of posting, so just shining a light where it really needs to be shined. My 2 cents. 

They just cant admit what was clear to everyone because they dislike TH that much.  Its a completely unobjectively look at the situation and when they are proven wrong they lash out at others.

 

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I am not your guy.

 

Wentz would have done X, Y and Z way better than Heinicke though.

 

See how this works.  Everyone can just say stuff about things that never actually occurred.

Yeah everyone knows what your saying but again... you will not admit that Wentz cannot avoid pressure, and will take sacks that cripple the offense. TH, for what he is, avoids pressure and gets the ball out to playmakers at times.  THAT is what is helping to extend drives and keep the defense fresh.  Its is invaluable to the team right now given the brand of football we are playing.  X,Y, and Z all you want MY GUY. Consider yourself lucky to be in such company. 

[CommanderCarson]

2 hours ago, NeverSurrender said:

They just cant admit what was clear to everyone because they dislike TH that much.  Its a completely unobjectively look at the situation and when they are proven wrong they lash out at others.

I don’t think anyone here dislikes Heineke per se. I genuinely believe most people like the dude and his story. That’s the type of post that will get you flagged around here and will give off a negative impression to those that tend to be more “pro” heineke. Don’t take the bait! 😊

[Koolblue13]

9 hours ago, NeverSurrender said:

They just cant admit what was clear to everyone because they dislike TH that much.  Its a completely unobjectively look at the situation and when they are proven wrong they lash out at others.

 

Your **** is getting old kid. Nobody "hates" the guy. I'm the president of the club and I do not hate him.

 

During the game in the GDT I made a comment "Great play Heini" when he made a 8 or 9 yard pass on the run to Terry for the first and then he threw it away and made a bad play and I posted "that's a Heini type play", because it was a typical play from him and I got attacked by one of you Heini Holers as a hater.

 

It's dumb.

 

So is absolutely refusing to believe that he is worthy of any criticism and spending your day defending his honor blindly.

 

Stop doing it.

 

Leave it to a Tie Game to get the Hivers buzzing so much. Not a win or lose, a Tie. A game where it is universally agreed upon that Heinicke had a very bad game. The Hive gets fired up and up the heads go, deep into the Heini Hole.. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

I like hanging out on kleese's All Things Playoffs thread more lol...

[50yrSKINSfan]

Personally I feel Wentz is not washed up. Last year he threw 27 TD for the COLTS but he needs a good Oline period as he looked like a sitting duck to me with the Oline we had in the beginning of the year. Very few QB can succeed throwing the ball with a defender in their face as we all know. TH has his faults but for now, with this line, he gives us the best chance to win and RR knows this or he would make the change as CW is a better thrower than TH. Back in the day I remember GHA saying that Sonny was a better thrower than BK but for some reason the team responds and plays better for Kilmer. Seems like this is like the same situation we have now. If a better QB does not magically appear this off season I would like to see us shore up the Oline and give Wentz another shot with TH as back up. I have memories of Wentz getting sacked like crazy and overthrowing receivers in the beginning of the year as he was rushed beyond belief and that would not change with the Oline we have now. We have a good D and running game let’s see how far that takes us because I have seen some nice long time consuming drives with TH at QB so I say go with the guy with the hot hand.

[Skinsinparadise]

I rewatched some of the game.  I love Robinson but that play early in the game where he ran out of bounds a couple of yards from the end zone when if he just darted right would have been an easy TD looked even more brutally bad on replay than it did in real time.  Wonder what the heck he was thinking?  That was worse than even the Desean Jackson run of bounds play in the playoff game, at least in that one there was a defender bearing down on him where he might take a hit.  With Robinson I assume it was a brain fart because he doesn't seem the type that is afraid of contact.  That was the game.  That drive ended in a field goal. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Martin with only a 42 score and its still too high

[Going Commando]

You could pick numbers randomly from 40-90 and come up with a more accurate depiction of the contributions and level of play of our team than those PFF grades.

[FootballZombie]

I remember the play where Gibby got horribly boxed in the backfield on a sweep and instead of reversing field and trying to use his speed to make something happen (which results in disaster 99% of the time at the NFL level) He just lowered his head through a seam to grab 3 or 4 yards and get back to the LOS. He rarely made that choice in the past.

 

I think watching B-Rob film is having a monumental effect on Gibby alongside being fresh. Every play does not have to be a home run. Sometimes its a great idea to take small chunks that are there.

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Stone Cold]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I rewatched some of the game.  I love Robinson but that play early in the game where he ran out of bounds a couple of yards from the end zone when if he just darted right would have been an easy TD looked even more brutally bad on replay than it did in real time.  Wonder what the heck he was thinking?  That was worse than even the Desean Jackson run of bounds play in the playoff game, at least in that one there was a defender bearing down on him where he might take a hit.  With Robinson I assume it was a brain fart because he doesn't seem the type that is afraid of contact.  That was the game.  That drive ended in a field goal. 

 

 

Haven’t rewatched the game but that play did stand out to me in real time.  Must’ve been a brain fart bc if he’s aware, a slight move and his momentum carry’s him in for the td 

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I rewatched some of the game.  I love Robinson but that play early in the game where he ran out of bounds a couple of yards from the end zone when if he just darted right would have been an easy TD looked even more brutally bad on replay than it did in real time.  Wonder what the heck he was thinking?  That was worse than even the Desean Jackson run of bounds play in the playoff game, at least in that one there was a defender bearing down on him where he might take a hit.  With Robinson I assume it was a brain fart because he doesn't seem the type that is afraid of contact.  That was the game.  That drive ended in a field goal. 

 

Here is another play in OT when he should have kept on running to his left and would have gotten more yards and a good position to at least kick a FG but instead he goes back to the middle.  Another mental mistake here. 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I love Robinson but that play early in the game where he ran out of bounds a couple of yards from the end zone when if he just darted right would have been an easy TD looked even more brutally bad on replay than it did in real time.

Yeah that looks ugly on playback, sidestep inside for the score. Very strange.

[NewCliche21]

36 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I remember the play where Gibby got horribly boxed in the backfield on a sweep and instead of reversing field and trying to use his speed to make something happen (which results in disaster 99% of the time at the NFL level) He just lowered his head through a seam to grab 3 or 4 yards and get back to the LOS. He rarely made that choice in the past.

 

I think watching B-Rob film is having a monumental effect on Gibby alongside being fresh. Every play does not have to be a home run. Sometimes its a great idea to take small chunks that are there.

 

 

I noticed this in real-time, too. I woulda bet the house that he would try to scat-back it to lose three more yards, but my guy just bulldozed forward.

I think this also happens, as @KDawg predicted it would, because he's able to have that be say his 120th run of the year rather than 220th. He woulda been worn the eff out, but now he can be what he was supposed to be.

[MrJL]

25 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah that looks ugly on playback, sidestep inside for the score. Very strange.

I think he might have misjudged and thought he'd  already stepped out

[Warhead36]

That Robinson run you guys are talking about, the one on the very first drive where he goes out of bounds, IIRC he might have been pushed just ever so slightly which causes him to go out of bounds but it wasn't so forceful to the point that it looked like he just ran out on his own.

[Koolblue13]

30 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Here is another play in OT when he should have kept on running to his left and would have gotten more yards and a good position to at least kick a FG but instead he goes back to the middle.  Another mental mistake here. 

 

 

 

He had no blockers out there and two defenders coming right at him. There was no outsidfe on that run and tucking it in and going north was the best option. You're bonkers.

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

You could pick numbers randomly from 40-90 and come up with a more accurate depiction of the contributions and level of play of our team than those PFF grades.

If Payne can play like he did and get a 59 that system is absolute trash. He had a DPOTW type game.

[NeverSurrender]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Your **** is getting old kid. Nobody "hates" the guy. I'm the president of the club and I do not hate him.

 

During the game in the GDT I made a comment "Great play Heini" when he made a 8 or 9 yard pass on the run to Terry for the first and then he threw it away and made a bad play and I posted "that's a Heini type play", because it was a typical play from him and I got attacked by one of you Heini Holers as a hater.

 

It's dumb.

 

So is absolutely refusing to believe that he is worthy of any criticism and spending your day defending his honor blindly.

 

Stop doing it.

 

Leave it to a Tie Game to get the Hivers buzzing so much. Not a win or lose, a Tie. A game where it is universally agreed upon that Heinicke had a very bad game. The Hive gets fired up and up the heads go, deep into the Heini Hole.. 

No you ARE old.  This type of post is exactly what Im talking about.  You literally prove my point by calling us "Heini Holers" really? That's so juvenile and pathetic.  You know you are wrong and you still act like a kid by calling me "heini holer"

Again you cannot be objective about this as I do not believe anyone is above being criticized yes I have criticized TH before and AGAIN I UNDERSTAND HIS LIMITATIONS.  And no its not universally agreed upon that he had a bad day.  Listen to Rons presser, he thinks TH played pretty well.  

No one around here is calling you a Wentz wanker or anything like that so grow tf up, or if you think your a big boy then maybe we can discuss in person.  Im always up for that.  And no one would be upset if you just took yourself to the eagles forums. 

[Inigo Montoya]

16 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

It does not matter if the QB throws a good ball or a bad ball. On pass interference a defender cannot stop a receiver from attempting to catch a pass when the ball is in the air. The defender has to play the ball. In the case of the “blown” PI call, the defender put his arm around the receivers neck slowing the receivers ability to come back for a underthrown ball. The defender made “no attempt” to play the ball. Now either that is clear pass interference or at least def holding as you cannot hold a receiver when the ball is in the air which it clearly was. To pick up a flag on a clear penalty out in the open where the ref that threw the flag was facing the play just puts a thought in your head that the game is fixed. Now if the ref did not see the play then fine, he would not throw the flag but throwing the flag proves he saw the play. Picking it up tells me he does not know what he is doing and he should not be a ref. We should be angry as that was a 4 point loss. We kicked a FG instead of getting the ball on the 1 yard line. 
 

worse than that, there were TWO flags thrown on this. The ref next to the play and a ref from the end zone area, both for the same call based on the timing. I was losing my mind 

[zCommander]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He had no blockers out there and two defenders coming right at him. There was no outsidfe on that run and tucking it in and going north was the best option. You're bonkers.

 

No you are bonkers! He is more than capable of dragging defenders with him. So what someone is coming towards you? You can still outsmart them. Going North was not the only option. But he does runs through defenders and he is good at it with his powerful legs. 

[Warhead36]

First off, not one person is a Heinicke hater. Not one. Every single one of us would absolutely love if he suddenly started throwing for 350 yards and 4 TDs. Nobody is rooting against him, that's just absurd.

 

He does some good things, but also significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY, handicaps the offense. Yes, Wentz also significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY, handicaps the offense with his flaws as well. He also raises the ceiling(but also lowers the floor). Ultimately, neither QB is gonna win us a Super Bowl unless we somehow get the 2000 Ravens defense.

 

Simple as that.

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

First off, not one person is a Heinicke hater. Not one

I am. To me hes a reminder of just how badly we've butchered the position that in year 3 of a tenure that arguably the worst QB playing this year is our best option. 

[NeverSurrender]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

First off, not one person is a Heinicke hater. Not one. Every single one of us would absolutely love if he suddenly started throwing for 350 yards and 4 TDs. Nobody is rooting against him, that's just absurd.

 

He does some good things, but also significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY, handicaps the offense. Yes, Wentz also significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY, handicaps the offense with his flaws as well. He also raises the ceiling(but also lowers the floor). Ultimately, neither QB is gonna win us a Super Bowl unless we somehow get the 2000 Ravens defense.

 

Simple as that.

Well said but there were a lot of people here saying that TH shouldn't even be on an NFL roster and they clearly didn't want him on ours and to be honest, our season would have been over weeks ago if TH was not on this team. I wish Wentz had looked like the former MVP, would have loved it if he dominated but sadly it didn't happen and it was ugly.  We might just only be a few pieces away from a defense like the 2000 ravens though, a few tweaks here or there and Ray Lewis ofc and were good to go. 

[Chump Bailey]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I am. To me hes a reminder of just how badly we've butchered the position that in year 3 of a tenure that arguably the worst QB playing this year is our best option. 

 

Appreciate the candor. Hopefully we get this monkey off our back soon and find our QB. 

[KDawg]

Just now, NeverSurrender said:

Well said but there were a lot of people here saying that TH shouldn't even be on an NFL roster and they clearly didn't want him on ours and to be honest, our season would have been over weeks ago if TH was not on this team. I wish Wentz had looked like the former MVP, would have loved it if he dominated but sadly it didn't happen and it was ugly.  We might just only be a few pieces away from a defense like the 2000 ravens though, a few tweaks here or there and Ray Lewis ofc and were good to go. 

 

If Heinicke wasn't on the team Howell would have been playing and could be doing some of the same things. But then again, every party saying, "Wentz would/wouldn't have done this..." or "Heinicke is the only reason this..." have all completely written off Howell... Which is interesting.

 

I still don't know if Howell WOULD have been able to replicate the Heinicke results. Or if Wentz could if this was the way it was when he was the QB. But I know Heinicke has. For whatever kind of witchcraft that is being used, he has done it. And no one can take that away from him. 

[Zim489]

5 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Appreciate the candor. Hopefully we get this monkey off our back soon and find our QB. 

Not looking great for next year either.