Next Day Thread: Giants I: Keep it Medium

[FootballZombie]

14 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Impossible to bash heiny on yesterdays performance.

 

It was easy for me to bash.

He struggled even more yesterday then he did in previous weeks.

He also somehow managed to increase his turnover worthy play rate, which was already basically the highest in the NFL.

 

Dude was not just bad but absolutely terrible for the vast majority of the game. Celebrating a couple of good plays is like being happy a basketball player goes 2 for 14 from 3.

I don't care about the rare good play if he is beyond godawful the majority of the time, which TH was.

 

In practically every conceivable metric he is terrible. Dude is a horrendous QB. Not bad. Not awful. Almost impossibly horrendous.

[mistertim]

24 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Impossible to bash heiny on yesterdays performance. The clutch 4th down elude and toss alone was the reason we even pulled out a tie. 

 

OL and blocking schemes were awful. How could we leave thibodeaux unblocked multiple times?! The pocket was constantly collapsing.

 

hopefully in 2 weeks st. Juste is back, we get this OL figured out a bit, we don’t deal with homer refs, and we don’t give up a fumble in the red zone. If so, we win.

 

On that PI call/no-call, I just wish Terry came back to the ball or even completely stopped running to draw the undeniable contact. It feels like we’ve been called for more offensive PI calls than been given defensive PI this year.

 

Really?

 

He had some good passes. The flick under pressure to Terry for the TD was really nice, and the 4th down pass was amazing.

 

Outside of that? He was completely pedestrian at best and must have tossed at least 4 passes that should have been intercepted, including 2 on the drive to try and win the game...both of which would almost surely have led to a Giants win before OT.

 

So yeah, it's not impossible.

[Warhead36]

You have to accept that Heinike kinda just...is who he is. There is a reason he was an undrafted FA and XFL backup. 

 

Basically I'm saying he played as well as you can reasonably expect HIM to play. 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Heinicke has been mediocre.  He just has, and arguing about it is getting old.  It doesn't mean we can't win games with him at QB, but they are all going to be these close types games.  For all the time of possession domination we continue to have from game to game, not scoring more points isn't just a small issue, it is an outright problem at this point,  

 

Does that mean he isn't the best option on the roster due to how bad the O-line is? Perhaps not, but I will say, Heinicke isn't the mobile scrambling QB we remember him being.  Maybe it is because he is taking so much punishment that he doesn't want to risk absorbing more by taking off with the football, or the accumulation of hits have just worn him down, but he isn't exactly escaping much nor are the coaches doing any designed runs out of the RPO for him, so while Wentz may be a statue, removing Heinicke's legs from the equation further limits what his abilities are.

 

Whether people want to admit it or not, we all know damn well on that pass to Dotson, we breathed a sigh of relief when Dotson did the spin move and got into the endzone because if he had gone down from the initial contact, there is a good chance they never end up tying the game up. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by NoCalMike

[CTskin]

30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No it’s not.  He had 1 good play.  6 INTs not get caught and QBed an offense that scored 3 points in almost 60 minutes of football while going 3-14 on 3rd down.

 

He sucked minus 3 or 4 plays.  
 

He has 130 yards before the 90 yard drive.  
 

He was basically dreadful for the middle for 50 minutes of game time.  He was ok early, had one moxie magic play (which was really good) and then terrible again.

Brother, the fact that every number/stat you noted is 100% not an actual stat or even close to reality shows your bias… 

 

he had his best statistical performance and that was with atrocious OL play, which u seem to be severely discounting. And I hate to blame the refs but I would like to see how many drives weren’t derailed by nonsense calls/no-calls to our detriment.

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Brother, the fact that every number/stat you noted is 100% not an actual stat or even close to reality shows your bias… 

 

he had his best statistical performance and that was with atrocious OL play, which u seem to be severely discounting. And I hate to blame the refs but I would like to see how many drives weren’t derailed by nonsense calls/no-calls to our detriment.

 

Did you seriously not see all those passes that literally hit defenders in the hands?

[CTskin]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Really?

 

He had some good passes. The flick under pressure to Terry for the TD was really nice, and the 4th down pass was amazing.

 

Outside of that? He was completely pedestrian at best and must have tossed at least 4 passes that should have been intercepted, including 2 on the drive to try and win the game...both of which would almost surely have led to a Giants win before OT.

 

So yeah, it's not impossible.

 

the guys finished with 275 and 2 for a 101 qbr… 
 

When you’re saying things like there were 4 passes that could have been intercepted… it feels like you’re rooting for them to actually be intercepted so u can bash the guy. After every game there’s a stat among haters as to how many passes “should have been intercepted”…

 

**** me now u have me defending the guy like a little fanboy. It’s just such a weird thing, this Heineke debate. We all know he’s not great, he peaks at slightly above average, but somehow we have so many who hold him to this unrealistic expectation or compare him against top tier qbs just to say he’s no good.

 

A nobody qb has us at 6-1-1, just give it a rest. I can’t wait to see the hate when he actually blows a game. 

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Did you seriously not see all those passes that literally hit defenders in the hands?

I had two little kids running around so there’s definitely a chance I missed one… but I absolutely didn’t see 6 passes thrown right to the defense. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Heinicke remains an enigma.  

 

It’s hard for me to find a comparison.  I can’t quite think of a player so unique, as far as the wide dispersion of play.  The overwhelming majority of the time he looks pedestrian and generally out of place.  But there are other times, where he looks really good.  Not just in certain games or matchups, but in nearly every game he has mostly moments of meh and a few moments of wow.  

[Warhead36]

Heinicke's PFF score was like 49 something. Truly abominable. I didn't think he was THAT bad but he definitely wasn't good by modern NFL QB standards.

[CTskin]

@mistertim I derailed the **** outa this thread, feel free to call me out on the heineke thread 

[RandyHolt]

Taylor thrives under pressure. Once he gets that near INT out of the way. Or 2.

 

He's an enigma. Like your ugliest friend that scores with people out of your league. Kinda like Dan selling his pathetic telemarketing company that everyone hates at the peak of the Telecom Bubble and scoring an NFL franchise. It wasn't pretty but he's here and its tough to get rid of him.

Edited December 6, 2022 by RandyHolt

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, CTskin said:

it feels like you’re rooting for them to actually be intercepted so u can bash the guy.

“It feels” is getting out of control around here.  
 

This is basically disregarding what someone actually posts and creating a different argument based on how you perceive their posts.

 

How does stating the obvious, that numerous throws were very close to being picked - equate to someone wishing they did get picked?  
 

Lame.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, CTskin said:

the guys finished with 275 and 2 for a 101 qbr… 

QBR is from 1-100.

 

His QBR was 27.8.  That’s DREADFUL. 
 

His passer rating was 101.  It’s basically an abandoned stat at this point. Nobody uses it.  It doesn’t account for situations, running, sacks, etc.  

 

 

The 4th and 2 play was special.  
 

A lot of the rest was drek.

 

i haven’t seen the PFF grade, which I’m not a huge fan of in general, will probably be worse because if the 6 intercept-able passes.  
 

BTW, they were 3-14 on 3rd down.

 

 

Im not sure what stat I quoted which wasn’t an actual stat.

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Heinicke's PFF score was like 49 something. Truly abominable. I didn't think he was THAT bad but he definitely wasn't good by modern NFL QB standards.

That’s higher than I thought it was going to be.  Probably got raised by the 90 yard tying drive.

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Heinicke remains an enigma.  

 

It’s hard for me to find a comparison.  I can’t quite think of a player so unique, as far as the wide dispersion of play.  The overwhelming majority of the time he looks pedestrian and generally out of place.  But there are other times, where he looks really good.  Not just in certain games or matchups, but in nearly every game he has mostly moments of meh and a few moments of wow.  

He KINDA reminds me of Doug Flutie.  Flutie just made things happen, would go long stretches of being “meh” and then have some wow plays.  Teammates loved him.  But he wasn’t great overall.  
 

He was even benched for the playoffs for Rob Johnson after playing much of the year.  
 

Flutie had a bigger arm but was short.  Also Flutie probably was a little more mobile. 
 

That and the back half of the Tebow magic carpet ride are the only things I can think of

[FLSkinz83]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'd let him walk.   Give me Roquan Smith. 

[skins island connection]

 

 I know Holmes was a back-up, but there were a number of big plays where he was 'schooled', and its tough but i'd say he was a big part of how the Giants were able to score.

53 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

It was easy for me to bash.

He struggled even more yesterday then he did in previous weeks.

He also somehow managed to increase his turnover worthy play rate, which was already basically the highest in the NFL.

 

Dude was not just bad but absolutely terrible for the vast majority of the game. Celebrating a couple of good plays is like being happy a basketball player goes 2 for 14 from 3.

I don't care about the rare good play if he is beyond godawful the majority of the time, which TH was.

 

In practically every conceivable metric he is terrible. Dude is a horrendous QB. Not bad. Not awful. Almost impossibly horrendous.

um, how?  He didn't throw any picks in the game, you just spew out garbage BS to justify your hate for the guy, but you don't even have an answer to replace him, do ya?!

I'm sure the coaching staff has more knowledge than you { actually tons more } and i'm not gonna try to defend him, but geez you Heine-Haters need to get realistic.

 

If you think putting Wentz in will be good then you need to stop watching football and take up Underwater Basket Weaving or something. The guy is damaged goods and will never be close to what he was with the Eagles, so give it a rest. Put the rook in? oh yea, thats genius; that would be telling the team 'we give up'. 

 

He didn't play a great game but he didn't cost the game either; he's a game manager at best with a little chip on his shoulder. If anything, the o-line coach should be put on a short leash, most every week they cave under pressure which disrupts the play.  Why ST didn't keep a single back in all game and flood the field with WRs/TEs and just have TH rolling out more, especially since the o-line can't block toilet paper at least give the QB a chance to roll out.

 

They looked like either the winning streak got into their heads and they figured NY would roll over or turner simply scaled down the game plan and is trying to rely on a rush-heavy offense, which will not work on the upcoming opponents.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, skins island connection said:

They looked like either the winning streak got into their heads and they figured NY would roll over or turner simply scaled down the game plan and is trying to rely on a rush-heavy offense, which will not work on the upcoming opponent

No, they looked exactly like they are: limited offensively because of horrendous QB play and a leaky OL.  

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No, they looked exactly like they are: limited offensively because of horrendous QB play and a leaky OL.  

They’ve been able to avoid penalties and limited the sacks during this run.  They had at least four accepted offensive penalties and also had two big ST miscues that cost field position.  They are not built to play behind the sticks and they found themselves there too many times yesterday.

[zCommander]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No, they looked exactly like they are: limited offensively because of horrendous QB play and a leaky OL.  

 

Ron is fine with Taylor though.

 

[skins island connection]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No, they looked exactly like they are: limited offensively because of horrendous QB play and a leaky OL.  

They know TH is far more mobile than Wentz, so why doesn't Turner draw up/call some designed roll-outs, maybe a QB run or 2 if coverage dictates. 

We all know TH isn't the answer { unless he suddenly develops a strong arm } but RR isn't gonna pull him unless he's throwing 3-4 picks/game. This is a situation where the fault falls on Turner and Turner only. He knows TH's abilities/liabilities and we've all seen him bolt out and take off running on any given play, so the threat of him doing this would help freeze LBers and give him a much clearer view of the field. I don't see how short QBs can see through both lines battling up front, but he can throw on the run.

[tmandoug1]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No, they looked exactly like they are: limited offensively because of horrendous QB play and a leaky OL.  

Leaky Oline? What were you watching VOR? How about we play a game? How many sacks, hits, pressures did our weak ass ****ty QB have yesterday? How many times was there 3 olineman blocking one dude while three rushed free? Is there a PFF stat for linemen looking like they have no clue what they are doing. We have a stat for almost picks but not for whoops forgot to block anyone on this play. Funny ****..defend your hills boys and girls. We are in the playoff hunt after starting 1-4.  

[NoCalMike]

As much as I am over Heinicke being the QB, I will at least give him props for doing what he does, behind a terrible O-line.  For his small size, he has absored a ton of punishment yet still plays on. I understand why he gets the "moxie" tag.  

[zCommander]

 

[BleedBNG]

Mara's refs are worse than Jones

 

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

10 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

um, how?  He didn't throw any picks in the game, you just spew out garbage BS to justify your hate for the guy, but you don't even have an answer to replace him, do ya?!

I'm sure the coaching staff has more knowledge than you { actually tons more } and i'm not gonna try to defend him, but geez you Heine-Haters need to get realistic.

 

Hung his pass catchers out to dry again.

Increased his turnover worthy plays

Continued to miss wide open players

 

His game against the giants was a terrible game overall. Fits right in w/ the rest of his play as well.

 

He is not giving us average or mediocre QB play. He is giving us dumpster fire levels of QB play.

 

I have all the confidence in the world that Wentz pr Howell can step in and be at least a terrible QB, and that would be an upgrade over what we are currently getting.