New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Pure speculation on my part - I would think QB might be a bigger sticking point. He may have said I am sticking with Haskins (for what ever reason, Dan most likely), and KOC said no, I am good. 

 

This is pure horse****, and I see this horse**** being repeated enough around here that people seem to think it's not pure horse****.  It's a backhanded attempt to scapegoat Haskins for one of Ron's biggest mistakes.  It doesn't pass the smell test at all, and it's trashy of Al Galdi to push the narrative.  Ron had already decided to bring in Scott Turner before interviewing O'Connell for the OC job.  That's why O'Connell left.  Ron didn't force Haskins on anyone, he traded for Scott Turner's pet project QB in March and had one foot out of the door on Haskins from at least that moment on, and he benched Haskins four games into the season.  And O'Connell was the only coach here who had a good relationship with the kid and got something out of him.  Ron ****ed up and picked Scott Turner over Kevin O'Connell.  He owns that mistake.

[Rex Tomb]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

There were never details about where they disagreed, only that they did not see eye to eye on the direction of the offense. He ultimately asked to speak with other teams which Ron R granted, opening the door for him to get another job. 

 

It's true Ron had already decided on several assitants but it's not usual for an OC to pick the position coaches. They may have some input but it's not thier choice. Now they may have not agreed on what that looked like but it was never reported that I saw. If it was reported I never saw it. It was aalways more vague that they just did not see the offense the same way. 

 

Pure speculation on my part - I would think QB might be a bigger sticking point. He may have said I am sticking with Haskins (for what ever reason, Dan most likely), and KOC said no, I am good. 

Position coaches don't work for the Coordinator. They have seperate responsibilities and they all report to the Head Coach. There is more prestige in being a Coordinator when it comes to Head Coach jobs, that's about it.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

There were never details about where they disagreed, only that they did not see eye to eye on the direction of the offense. He ultimately asked to speak with other teams which Ron R granted, opening the door for him to get another job. 

 

It's true Ron had already decided on several assitants but it's not usual for an OC to pick the position coaches. They may have some input but it's not thier choice. Now they may have not agreed on what that looked like but it was never reported that I saw. If it was reported I never saw it. It was aalways more vague that they just did not see the offense the same way. 

 

Pure speculation on my part - I would think QB might be a bigger sticking point. He may have said I am sticking with Haskins (for what ever reason, Dan most likely), and KOC said no, I am good. 

 

Piecing together different narratives and enough different beat guys have weighed in where I feel like I can at least piece together what those stories have in common.   So I'd guess its likely something like this:

 

And some of this is from Craig Hoffman who seemed close to O'Connell and isn't the biggest fan of Rivera (strikes me lukewarm at best about him as a coach) so I find him fairly objective.  I recall him talking about the prospect of O'Connell just before he left, I recall listening to the rap about it on New Years Day when i was driving to the Alabama-Michigan game.  He was more vague about it then but got into more detail later on. But other beat guys have weighed in since and the narrative seems to overlap.

 

Short version of it is was:

 

A.  Rivera committed to playing Haskins (RIP), came up in conversations with Dan in the interviews.  Haskins was Dan's guy to say the least.

B.  O'Connell didn't think highly of Haskins

C.  The FO at the time led by Kyle Smith also didn't think highly of Haskins

D.  Rivera was legit considering O'Connell for the job but Scott Turner had the edge (I agree with those who said that was a mistake by Ron)

E.  O'Connell was being pursued elsewhere including by the Rams and sensed he wasn't the favorite here anyway and didn't like riding with Haskins.  So it was the perfect storm. 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

This is pure horse****, and I see this horse**** being repeated enough around here that people seem to think it's not pure horse****.  It's a backhanded attempt to scapegoat Haskins for one of Ron's biggest mistakes.  It doesn't pass the smell test at all, and it's trashy of Al Galdi to push the narrative.  Ron had already decided to bring in Scott Turner before interviewing O'Connell for the OC job.  That's why O'Connell left.  Ron didn't force Haskins on anyone, he traded for Scott Turner's pet project QB in March and had one foot out of the door on Haskins from at least that moment on, and he benched Haskins four games into the season.  And O'Connell was the only coach here who had a good relationship with the kid and got something out of him.  Ron ****ed up and picked Scott Turner over Kevin O'Connell.  He owns that mistake.

 

 

Hmmm... Seems we touched a nerve. LOL  You are more than welcome to disagree, but pure horse ****? My opinions aren't as valuable as pure horse ****. You can't even grow flowers in them. I think you do horse **** a disservice. 

 

Your response is kind of all over the place but it seems the bottom line is you think he should have kept KOC and given Haskins more of a chance. That postion appears to be a bit contradictory though since if Haskins was KOC's guy (KOC was the guy to get something out of him) and Ron knew he was giving Haskins a shot at QB1, why would KOC leave. They talked several times about OC job, not position coach. It was not a fore gone conclusion Scott was comnig over as OC. Most speculation was he was coming as the QBs coach, the actual reason that Ron gave a low round draft pick for a backup that knew Ron and yes a few other coaches including Scott.  

 

In the end KOC was probably a mistake. And he does own it, he just fired Scott Turner and is casting a wide net for a replacment. Legitimate candidates too. Not really discussing Haskins other than to say I disagree with your assessment. We will have to agree to disagree. 

[Koolblue13]

Zampese, Bienemy are my two least favorite options.

 

Brian Johnson is my top option.

 

Shurmur is meh, but I'd be happy with the results.

[Rex Tomb]

Why is Bienemie not a top option? @Koolblue13

Edited January 21, 2023 by Rex Tomb

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Why is Bienemie not a top option? @Koolblue13

He's been passed over for years from teams all around the league, players complain about him and from the stuff I've read over the years is that the only reason he is still on that team, is because he's Fat Andys pet. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Position coaches don't work for the Coordinator. They have seperate responsibilities and they all report to the Head Coach. There is more prestige in being a Coordinator when it comes to Head Coach jobs, that's about it.

I think that's not entirely correct.  It's been said coordinators "run the room."  While the position coaches might not technically work for the coordinator, they are absolutely instrumental in coaching and teaching the scheme of the coordinator and implementing the game plan. They are higher paid, and have a lot more responsibility.  

 

The coordinators, traditionally, own the scheme and the game plan, and run the practices.  Position coaches coach technique to the players and make sure they understand the scheme and where they fit in it.

 

If you have mis-alignment between a coordinator and a position coach, bad things happen.

 

[Rex Tomb]

51 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's been passed over for years from teams all around the league, players complain about him and from the stuff I've read over the years is that the only reason he is still on that team, is because he's Fat Andys pet. 

[Warhead36]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think that's not entirely correct.  It's been said coordinators "run the room."  While the position coaches might not technically work for the coordinator, they are absolutely instrumental in coaching and teaching the scheme of the coordinator and implementing the game plan. They are higher paid, and have a lot more responsibility.  

 

The coordinators, traditionally, own the scheme and the game plan, and run the practices.  Position coaches coach technique to the players and make sure they understand the scheme and where they fit in it.

 

If you have mis-alignment between a coordinator and a position coach, bad things happen.

 

That's fine, but there is a misconception that the position coaches work for the coordinator. They don't. They work for the head coach. So the idea that O'Connell didn't get to "pick his staff" is dumb because coordinators don't have their own staff. They work with other coaches under the big boss head coach. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

D.  Rivera was legit considering O'Connell for the job but Scott Turner had the edge (I agree with those who said that was a mistake by Ron)

I was one of the ones who didn't give a good Goddamn about KOC or Kyle Smith leaving.  I still don't care about Kyle Smith leaving  

 

I don't think KOC would have been the HC of the Vikings if he had stayed here to work for Ron and coach the group of misfits we've had. 

 

I think I also fall on the side of Scott was the lead candidate but KOC was getting a strong look.  

 

I wasn't particularly hot on Scott Turner as the replacement, though for his first 2 years working with Haskins, Peg-Leg-Alex, Kyle Allen and Taylor Heinicke with a weak supporting cast, I thought he did ok at manufacturing offense with an extremely limited group of players.  

 

I really started to sour on him through this year with "feel of the game" play-calling, not trying much to scheme around pressure, and most importantly, not figuring out how to get all of the weapons involved early in games.  (I can't remember who it was, maybe Walsh, maybe Holmgren) said when putting together the script for the game, they always focused on making sure they got all of their playmakers targets early so they were immediately involved in the game, both so they had their head in the game, and also so the opponent had to be concerned about them from the start.  Hell, it might have even been Norv, who was a master of the first 15 plays.  Regardless, that was smart and Scott Turner failed miserably at it.)

[Rex Tomb]

31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Regardless, that was smart and Scott Turner failed miserably at it.)

I lost track of the number of times we would hear that Terry McLaurin got his first catch in the last two minutes of the first half. He was absolutely dreadful once he went beyond his 15 scripted play drives, and he had to make calls based on the feel of the game, and I’m so glad that he is no longer a part of the team.

[FuriousD]

43 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That's fine, but there is a misconception that the position coaches work for the coordinator. They don't. They work for the head coach. So the idea that O'Connell didn't get to "pick his staff" is dumb because coordinators don't have their own staff. They work with other coaches under the big boss head coach. 

I have no dog in this fight but there’s a vid out there of Logan Paulson, Craig Hoffman and John Keim talking about the possible OC candidates. In it, Keim and Paulson speculate on the possibility of the new OC wanting to bring staff along with him. Consensus is that Ron would not want to “rebuild” the current staff. 

[Koolblue13]

This hurts. I wanted to fire JDR and promote Harris to DC this past offseason.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

Good for Harris.

 

I guess he will hold out to see if he gets a DC offer and if he does not he jumps ship to Tenn?

 

[KDawg]

15 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Position coaches don't work for the Coordinator. They have seperate responsibilities and they all report to the Head Coach. There is more prestige in being a Coordinator when it comes to Head Coach jobs, that's about it.

Position coaches absolutely work for the coordinators. It’s a chain of command. Assistant position coaches report to the position coach. Position coaches report to the coordinator. Coordinator reports to the HC. The whole staff works for the HC but the chain of command is obvious.

[method man]

57 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This hurts. I wanted to fire JDR and promote Harris to DC this past offseason.

 

 

Rivera needs to do what he can to bring Wilks here to replace him

[Koolblue13]

Just now, method man said:

Rivera needs to do what he can to bring Wilks here to replace him

There was a lot of talk of Harris getting the DC job somewhere last year. He's done an excellent job for us. Wilks would definitely ease this loss.

[method man]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There was a lot of talk of Harris getting the DC job somewhere last year. He's done an excellent job for us. Wilks would definitely ease this loss.

I don’t think they will promote Richard Rodgers. Rivera let him be the secondary coach in 2018 and then demoted him to safeties coach in 2019

[CapsSkins]

Acting like passing up KOC was such a big mistake makes no sense given that he got hired to be a Head Coach after just two years with the Rams. He would've been gone in short order no matter what.

[SkinsFTW]

13 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Acting like passing up KOC was such a big mistake makes no sense given that he got hired to be a Head Coach after just two years with the Rams. He would've been gone in short order no matter what.

 

Probably not. He was right to GTFO. If he was Ron's OC he wouldn't have looked any where near as good. He was the OC of last year's SB winning team. This team wouldn't have landed a QB as good as Stafford either.

[veteranskinsfan]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:46 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Zampese, Bienemy are my two least favorite options.

 

Brian Johnson is my top option.

 

Shurmur is meh, but I'd be happy with the results.

Ravens fired their offensive coordinator, Greg Roman and Bucs fired Byron Leftwich. Both let go on Jan. 19th.  Any interest?

Roman was with the 49ers before going to the Ravens.  He devised offense for Kapernick to run and pass effectively and did the same for the Ravens.

I read recently the Ravens fans were thrilled that he was fired.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Ravens fired their offensive coordinator, Greg Roman and Bucs fired Byron Leftwich. Both let go on Jan. 19th.  Any interest?

Roman was with the 49ers before going to the Ravens.  He devised offense for Kapernick to run and pass effectively and did the same for the Ravens.

I read recently the Ravens fans were thrilled that he was fired.

Roman definitely, but Leftwich should go back to being a QB coach for HoF QBs.

[Command The 414]

2 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Ravens fired their offensive coordinator, Greg Roman and Bucs fired Byron Leftwich. Both let go on Jan. 19th.  Any interest?

Roman was with the 49ers before going to the Ravens.  He devised offense for Kapernick to run and pass effectively and did the same for the Ravens.

I read recently the Ravens fans were thrilled that he was fired.

I’d love to have Roman here, my opinion on the guy is he was kinda the scapegoat for a very bad and limited QB in Lamar, I work in Bmore City and I’m around Ravens fans all the time, and let me tell you that everything you hear on TV or read on Twitter or other outlets isn’t what most of if not all Ravens fan I know feel about Lamar, they’ll tell you he’s not a very good passer over 15yds, he misses more wide opened receivers down field then anyone and the most said thing is he’s a athlete playing QB…

 

Roman while in SF had Crabtree in the top 10 of receivers and people forget when he was in Buffalo he actually had Tyrod Taylor and Taylor statically wasn’t a bad QB, and Roman definitely gets the most out of running schemes and the TE thrives…. So imho Roman could easily do something here with us specially if we commit and go OL this off season through FA and/or Draft.

 

Leftwich imho was a product of having Arians around even if Arians wasn’t the true play caller, you can rest assured Arians had a major hand in the game to game scheme they were using, this last season Leftwich was the main offensive play caller and was alone doing so imho and it showed, to me I don’t want Leftwich anywhere near this franchise… he also had Brady even at his age and skill level failing is better then 1/2 the QB’s in the NFL

Edited January 22, 2023 by ashlynskins