The (New) Offensive Line Thread

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Interesting if true....

 

 

While the top of the 2nd round was loaded, there were rumors Avila was the guy they were most enamored with. They liked Keion White a lot. 

[MrJL]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Teams can protect players an unlimited number of time even if they can only elevate them two or three times,  And this doesn't do much for us, since we're barred from signing anyone from the Giants PS this week.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

Teams can protect players an unlimited number of time even if they can only elevate them two or three times

That is only partially true—the protection starts each week on Tuesday. So between the previous game’s kickoff  on Thurs/Sun/Mon and the immediately following Tuesday, any PS squad player can be poached. It didn’t happen this week, so he’s still on the Giants PS. But if he performs well again without a contract offer for their 53, you’d think he will likely get stolen before next Tuesday. 

[El Mexican]

2 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

Teams can protect players an unlimited number of time even if they can only elevate them two or three times,  And this doesn't do much for us, since we're barred from signing anyone from the Giants PS this week.

 

It must do something. At 34 sacks allowed we're on pace for a historically bad season. 

We're talking about a 100+ sack season, something I would never have even dreamed of seeing here given The Hogs importance.

[Captain Wiggles]

So why isn't Lucas playing instead of Wylie? He's sposidly not as good of a run blocker but Bieniemy rarely calls running plays anyway. Someone make it make sense. 

[mh86]

6 hours ago, Captain Wiggles said:

Someone make it make sense. 

This team hasn’t done much that makes sense the last few seasons 

[Thinking Skins]

Does anyone know what type of blocking scheme we run? It's it zone? Cause I just read an article on Charles being a good zone run blocker. 

[Skinsinparadise]

This is a point I've made for years on the draft thread, look at the demise of the Giants and how the demise of their O line is central to that.  Some think I just turned on Ron for no reason.  It's about this topic more than anything.  IMO its hard to win when you don't value the O line as a position.   This is a position I've had for years before Ron decided to engage that point here.  But now that he's engaged it, that did it with me, he lost me.

 

He took one of the better O lines in the league and turned it into something similar to what the Giants have.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[justice98]

This was the OL they came up with after ending last season knowing they needed to improve it.  They somehow found a way to make it worse.  And not even a little worse, a LOT worse.

[JSSkinz]

What's insane is our O line was bad last year and somehow we've found a way to make it even worse. How can a FO be so clueless as to what talent they have in the building, it makes everyone look like clowns.

[Ball Security]

To the points above, last year they went with Trai Turner’s corpse at RG. He got hurt and Charles still couldn’t find playing time. This year, he is the starting LG. 
 

I understand that Rivera is a personnel and coaching genius, but why not move Wylie inside and have Lucas at RT?

 

At this point, I’d go Leno, Paul, Stromberg, Cosmi, Lucas. Once the season goes on, I’d try to work Leno in at RT to see if getting a LT in the draft with Leno on the right side makes the edges better.

[Skintime]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:16 PM, Thinking Skins said:

Does anyone know what type of blocking scheme we run? It's it zone? Cause I just read an article on Charles being a good zone run blocker. 

I don't think we actually block anyone. It's our specialty.

[skinzplay]

The G-Men knew full well why Gates was expendable, and they attacked that weakness relentlessly. Thank our GM for that signing.

[Rex Tomb]

Anyone else wish we had kept Bill Callahan as an interim HC?  Then at least our line would kick ass.

[The Rook]

                Washington Center Nick Gates             and               Right Tackle Andrew Wylie

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:16 PM, Thinking Skins said:

Does anyone know what type of blocking scheme we run? It's it zone? Cause I just read an article on Charles being a good zone run blocker. 

Almost all offenses are a mix now. Some zone, some gap and a **** ton of failure with this line. Even simple tag and hinge blocks are a mess with this line. Watch Wylie and Cosmi work together on BASIC combo blocks. It is a trainwreck.  I didnt realize we had no OL coach. And if that is true it is another massive failure in the Ron Rivera bucket of failures. Add this turnstile line to a QB with poor pocket awareness and you get what have now. With the way this line struggles with stunts I would make them play gap almost exclusively. 

[Thinking Skins]

I don't see a threat for this but I'm thinking of who I want in free agency. 

 

I'm looking at

 

Connor Williams

Jonah Williams

 

There are some other names that I like but they're backups so I don't want to put too much weight in them. 

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't see a threat for this but I'm thinking of who I want in free agency. 

 

I'm looking at

 

Connor Williams

Jonah Williams

 

There are some other names that I like but they're backups so I don't want to put too much weight in them. 

I think the Cowboys are going to release Tyler Smith, because he's 30, has an injury history and they already have his back up on the roster.

 

I don't love the injury history, but he'd be a huge and affordable upgrade at LT, which we can still address in the draft.

[MrJL]

Charles is dinged up and hopefully they'll use that as an excuse to tinker with the OL.  And Rivera's comments suggest the possibilty.

 

Wonder if Stromberg starts or maybe Paul starts and Stromberg remains the swing backup.  Hell maybe they tinker with the whole line.  Larsen at center as Gates swings out to guard

[Thinking Skins]

12 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think the Cowboys are going to release Tyler Smith, because he's 30, has an injury history and they already have his back up on the roster.

 

I don't love the injury history, but he'd be a huge and affordable upgrade at LT, which we can still address in the draft.

This brings up another perspective, who will be released. But he's 30. I guess thats better than we have though. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This brings up another perspective, who will be released. But he's 30. I guess thats better than we have though. 

30 is young enough for a OT. Probably get 3 good years out of him and it gives time to groom a 2nd RD pick later on. 1rst round we could take a RT if we're drafting mid teens. 

 

If we signed Collins now, he'd be 100% next season and is one of the better linemen in the league, regardless of what position he's playing.

 

End up with ex cowboys bookends to start the year with quality depth from the draft in the pipeline. 

 

Assuming Strom can play C, and we draft OT and OG, we'd have a Vet at LT, rookie at LG, Strom at C, Collins at RG next to and helping a high picked RT

 

Gives you great veterans who've worked together before, youth and position flex ability. Assuming we draft another OT/IOL day 3, if Smith gets hurt, which he will, Collins can move to the LT, Cosmi comes in at RG and you don't miss a beat.

 

Collins and Smith also don't count against the Comp picks we potentially have coming. 

[Thinking Skins]

 

So this was a long discussion but basically PFF grades are a ratio and MAM is saying that they should be a counting stat like fumbles. 

 

The person he's taking to disagrees. But the example at the head of the discussion is a Commanders OL who has the same number of failures of more reps. So yes like a RB with 15 fumbles on 400 carries vs 15 fumbles on 100 carries. One is better. But they're both bad. Both have 15 fumbles. 

 

 

 

[Conn]

Those kinds of things don’t always work well as a counting stat. Like drops, they aren’t sticky year to year for good players and tend to follow high target players, just due to volume. So you can say “T.O. had 11 drops that year” and nobody cares because he has 170 targets and 100 catches or whatever. 
 

Fumbles are the same. 8 fumbles for a COP back who gets a dozen touches a week is devastating compared to 8 fumbles for a bellcow guy who gets 380 touches in a season. They are not equally bad outcomes at all. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Conn

[MartinC]

Having thought about our O'Line for a bit and considered the options I have to come to the conclusion it would be better if we had one.

[Thinking Skins]

so now that I've had breakfast, this number is simply the pressures allowed number, which is not widely available but I think is available through different sites. 

But I have not seen OLs ranked by number of pressures allowed. I guess that's only offered at PFF right now. I can't find it anywhere else. 

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

Those kinds of things don’t always work well as a counting stat. Like drops, they aren’t sticky year to year for good players and tend to follow high target players, just due to volume. So you can say “T.O. had 11 drops that year” and nobody cares because he has 170 targets and 100 catches or whatever. 
 

Fumbles are the same. 8 fumbles for a COP back who gets a dozen touches a week is devastating compared to 8 fumbles for a bellcow guy who gets 380 touches in a season. They are not equally bad outcomes at all. 

 

That's why it would cause us to look further into it.

 

The thing is a rating system should rate bad players bad and good players good. 

 

The COP back and the and the bellcow (under my system) would be rated both very badly because they both had 8 fumbles. But if you look into it and see the numbers and then look further at it and see the why, they'd rank the COP worse because he did it on fewer carries. The Bellcow would not be seen as a "good" back but its more understandable because he took more snaps. I still wouldn't trust him holding the ball though. 

 

And that's the thing though. When 15 pressures allowed gets just diluted by the pass heavy system we run, and then all the other pressures of the other linemen are just the same way, so that we have a "high" grade (so that they become 60s and 70s) , so much so that Craig Hoffman who is an intelligent man on radio, but is hanging up on callers who try to point out flaws in this system. So that now we rank as a top 10-12 unit. So that now it can't be the OL's fault? Really? Sorry, but your system is bad. 

18 minutes ago, Conn said:

Those kinds of things don’t always work well as a counting stat. Like drops, they aren’t sticky year to year for good players and tend to follow high target players, just due to volume. So you can say “T.O. had 11 drops that year” and nobody cares because he has 170 targets and 100 catches or whatever. 
 

Fumbles are the same. 8 fumbles for a COP back who gets a dozen touches a week is devastating compared to 8 fumbles for a bellcow guy who gets 380 touches in a season. They are not equally bad outcomes at all. 

I will comment that I love having these type of discussions, and its even better when it can be almost all ball.