The (New) Offensive Line Thread

[Going Commando]

Linderbaum leading this OL, and Braeden Daniels staying healthy and/or coming into next season with ten more pounds of mass and NFL level strength, Cosmi and Wylie on the right side, Leno on the left, and Brock Bowers or Michael Mayer at TE and this offense would be a whole different animal.  Even with EB still running the show.

 

That's why I'm not out on Bieniemy even though I think he's done a bad job on the whole.  I think the chance for a significant turnaround is there for next year, and that the continuity would be good for Howell.

 

We missed the boat on Linderbaum though, there is no good and quick alternative fix on the horizon at center.  The really good and worthwhile ones almost never hit free agency, and Linderbaum was a blue moon prospect who only comes around every half decade or so.  We're going to have to make do with a far lesser prospect in Stromberg.  We are also probably going to have to start the development process at LG over from scratch with Daniels next year, unless we move Wylie to LG.  But then you'll just have to develop a RT unless you sign someone like Onwenu, and Daniels is the best OL prospect in our pipeline.

 

The harsh reality we faced this year is that turning over multiple spots on your OL in the off-season is brutal, and no matter what we do, we're turning over center next year, and the guy taking the reigns will be a green player with no starts on his resume, who I also think was significantly over drafted.  It makes it brutal to try and develop guard prospects along side him.  And upgrading our RT spot means either spending a first or second rounder on the position and moving Wylie and hoping for the best, or spending a lot of money on someone like Onwenu and making our line pretty expensive between that contract, Wylie, Leno, and Cosmi's future extension. If you saw how this franchise and fanbase balked at paying a DL where every single one of the guys was Probowl caliber, imagine how it'd be to find ourselves in a situation where an OL with zero Probowl caliber players on it costs 50+ million a year.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

When is Stromberg coming off IR? Is it just an expected 4 weekend or is he actually on there for an unknown duration?

[DWinzit]

40 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Wylie at RT isn't the problem with our line.  It's the interior.  Larsen, Charles, Gates, and Paul have all sucked, and the scheme has been doing them no favors.  Cosmi has been a lot better than them, but he too has struggled with stunts and blitzes.

 

31 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

You could upgrade LG by moving Wylie there, and Lucas is better than the collection of players we have at LG.  But if you do that, you've juggled Wylie (never good for the player midseason), cut off any path to development for Charles/Paul, used up your tackle depth which used to be a strength, and abandoned what little continuity/chemistry Wylie and Cosmi were able to build with each other.

 

This line really suffers from bad center play and a lack of development from our left guards.  We'd actually be in a good place with the OL if we'd been able to hit on one of our LGs and/or still had a reliable center like we had with Roullier before he started getting injured.  I wish we had picked Tyler Linderbaum so bad.  That choice was teed up for us.  We traded back and got into the perfect range for him.  He's probably going to spend 15 years in Baltimore and go down as one of their best OLs in franchise history.

While I understand continuity of the OL is very important, it has been evident that none of them have been working well together.

 

Thank goodness we moved from Gates. I get that he brought a vet presence and had grit which they wanted, but he certainly was a fail. 

 

Larsen's play has been noticeably improved with his calls, something many of us expected. The big shames are the interior injuries, especially Strom. His maturity is so important with Charles and Paul not showing a great deal of improvement. I don't really know what Daniels may or may not bring to the table either. I guess we found out next year when a new OC evaluates his inheritance. 

 

I was looking for what group might be able to play together at their optimum by moving Wylie and Lucas. If I were running the team I'd make that attempt,,,what is the worst that occurs, a couple sacks? By not trying a change like this, is like Ron making his statements, we are fine with what we have. We really aren't.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Wylie at RT isn't the problem with our line.  It's the interior.  Larsen, Charles, Gates, and Paul have all sucked, and the scheme has been doing them no favors.  Cosmi has been a lot better than them, but he too has struggled with stunts and blitzes.

I’d argue Wylie has been as bad as any of them.

 

Larsen at least gets the calls right most of the time.  Paul is a big dude who doesn’t tend to get beaten immediately.  
 

Wylie looks good for a bit but then he gives up a move and losses immediately.

 

I don’t think he’s Shar Pardanesh level of suck.  But he isn’t good. 
 

I want to see Lucas in there now.  And a new RT asap.  

[Silvernon]

Sam is short, so you can't be having these tall lineman in the interior and Lucas is a giant.

[bowhunter]

5 hours ago, DWinzit said:

 

While I understand continuity of the OL is very important, it has been evident that none of them have been working well together.

 

True. "Continuity" is only a good thing when we desire things to continue lol

[RandyHolt]

Why can't our OL stop stunts?   Of course it's exacerbated by seeing our DL never even try them so you know our OL aren't getting proper reps in practice.

 

I remember under peak Callahan we were the worst. It seems like we have reverted back. Maybe its our collective high school assistant coaches, or maybe Ron just never gave a flying **** about the OL so he could focus on getting studs on D for Jack Del Rio.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Looking at teams like the Giants and Jets I'm reminded of how much competition, either in free agency or in the draft, there will be for quality offensive linemen.  I'd like to see them draft a LT with the high first, find a vet LB in free agency and add a LB in the draft, and then go BPA in hopes that some more OL are near the top of their board.  

Edited November 21, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[PlayAction]

Quality free agent linemen are usually expensive.  I agree on LT being a priority for the first round pick.  I don't want the GM to reach though.  If there are a group of 3-4 OTs available I'd be happy with a trade down of just a few spots to acquire another 3rd.  

[Warhead36]

You're not gonna get a quality starting T in FA. I mean, at best you get a Charles Leno type, a guy who is mostly solid but gets lit up  by any of the premium Edge guys(and our division is chock full of em). Pretty much have to draft one. Thankfully we should be in position to get one of the blue chip LT prospects. Just up to our new FO to identify which one.

 

I do believe there are some good interior OL available in FA though.

[Ball Security]

How bad of an idea is it to go into next season with two rookies at tackle? Say we get Alt with our first pick and then either trade up and get a RT in the back half of the first or get one with the Bears pick in the second. Then, if we get either the Lions or Seahawks OCs as HC, bring in one of their guards in FA Jonah Jackson/Damion Lewis.

 

Starting line of Alt, Jackson, Stromberg, Cosmi, Morgan/Paul/etc.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

How bad of an idea is it to go into next season with two rookies at tackle? Say we get Alt with our first pick and then either trade up and get a RT in the back half of the first or get one with the Bears pick in the second. Then, if we get either the Lions or Seahawks OCs as HC, bring in one of their guards in FA Jonah Jackson/Damion Lewis.

 

Starting line of Alt, Jackson, Stromberg, Cosmi, Morgan/Paul/etc.

I'll take talented rookies over bum veterans like Wylie.

[Silvernon]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:57 AM, Ball Security said:

How bad of an idea is it to go into next season with two rookies at tackle? Say we get Alt with our first pick and then either trade up and get a RT in the back half of the first or get one with the Bears pick in the second. Then, if we get either the Lions or Seahawks OCs as HC, bring in one of their guards in FA Jonah Jackson/Damion Lewis.

 

Starting line of Alt, Jackson, Stromberg, Cosmi, Morgan/Paul/etc.

I don't see it happening.

 

They probably won't cut Wiley until after next year, so he might move to LG. Gates is a huge dead cap too, so unfortunately he stays too. 

 

Leno - Wiley - Ricky/Day 2 - Cosmi - Top 40 pick for RT

Lucas - Day 2 OL - Daniels - Day 3 C/G - Gates

 

Hence why I think they should trade up for a RT rather than wait. Might even get a LT there. And, if you an keep one of the early 2nds you could grab your starting RT too. 

 

Get a playmaker with the top 7 pick.

Trade back into the 1st round for a LT. 

Draft a starting RT in the 2nd round.

 

That's 3 players, and they have 5 of the top 100. But they're stuck with a few players for another year, namely Wiley and Gates. 

[MrJL]

4 hours ago, Silvernon said:

I don't see it happening.

 

They probably won't cut Wiley until after next year, so he might move to LG. Gates is a huge dead cap too, so unfortunately he stays too. 

 

Leno - Wiley - Ricky/Day 2 - Cosmi - Top 40 pick for RT

Lucas - Day 2 OL - Daniels - Day 3 C/G - Gates

 

Hence why I think they should trade up for a RT rather than wait. Might even get a LT there. And, if you an keep one of the early 2nds you could grab your starting RT too. 

 

Get a playmaker with the top 7 pick.

Trade back into the 1st round for a LT. 

Draft a starting RT in the 2nd round.

 

That's 3 players, and they have 5 of the top 100. But they're stuck with a few players for another year, namely Wiley and Gates. 

only the top two guys, who could both  be top 10 picks are LTs, the rest are RTs

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

only the top two guys, who could both  be top 10 picks are LTs, the rest are RTs

Agreed about Wylie.  A lot of people think you can just cut players but there is the dead cap space which many know about.  Wylie is better suited at G and we need to play him there for a year until his out comes due in 2025. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by RWJ

[MrJL]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Agreed about Wylie.  A lot of people think you can just cut players but there is the dead cap space which many know about.  Wylie is better suited at G and we need to play him there for a year until his out comes due in 2025. 

I think there's a chance w could June 1st him.  There's a 5 mil dead cap hit but it does save 4 million

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

I think there's a chance w could June 1st him.  There's a 5 mil dead cap hit but it does save 4 million

Yeah, with close to $100M in 2024 cap space, cutting Wylie and Gates is not a show stopper. You can post-6/1 them both (I can’t think of other candidates) and take the $9M dead money hit with the $6M savings. 
 

No need to strap the new coach with them. Yeah, you could move Wylie to LG potentially. But if we get Ben Johnson, we should get their LG (Jackson). Same with the Seahawks OC and Damion Lewis.
 

Gates shouldn’t see the field next season. Don’t need him on the roster.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 11/18/2023 at 8:28 AM, Going Commando said:

Linderbaum leading this OL, and Braeden Daniels staying healthy and/or coming into next season with ten more pounds of mass and NFL level strength, Cosmi and Wylie on the right side, Leno on the left, and Brock Bowers or Michael Mayer at TE and this offense would be a whole different animal.  Even with EB still running the show.

 

That's why I'm not out on Bieniemy even though I think he's done a bad job on the whole.  I think the chance for a significant turnaround is there for next year, and that the continuity would be good for Howell.

 

We missed the boat on Linderbaum though, there is no good and quick alternative fix on the horizon at center.  The really good and worthwhile ones almost never hit free agency, and Linderbaum was a blue moon prospect who only comes around every half decade or so.  We're going to have to make do with a far lesser prospect in Stromberg.  We are also probably going to have to start the development process at LG over from scratch with Daniels next year, unless we move Wylie to LG.  But then you'll just have to develop a RT unless you sign someone like Onwenu, and Daniels is the best OL prospect in our pipeline.

 

The harsh reality we faced this year is that turning over multiple spots on your OL in the off-season is brutal, and no matter what we do, we're turning over center next year, and the guy taking the reigns will be a green player with no starts on his resume, who I also think was significantly over drafted.  It makes it brutal to try and develop guard prospects along side him.  And upgrading our RT spot means either spending a first or second rounder on the position and moving Wylie and hoping for the best, or spending a lot of money on someone like Onwenu and making our line pretty expensive between that contract, Wylie, Leno, and Cosmi's future extension. If you saw how this franchise and fanbase balked at paying a DL where every single one of the guys was Probowl caliber, imagine how it'd be to find ourselves in a situation where an OL with zero Probowl caliber players on it costs 50+ million a year.

 

Harsh reality IMO is it wasn't a talented O line AND they were playing together for the first time AND the scheme didn't help them.  Perfect storm.  My take is lets build a good O line versus shoot for passable (passable seemed to be Rivera's goal) so we can compete with the big boys.

 

Hoping Wylie is a backup or at worst their LG next year.   Braeden Daniels from what I heard was lucky to even make the team after a bad camp.  So i am gathering he's a wildcard at best. 

 

At first glance looks like they can upgrade at RT with their 2nd rounder.  For LT, it would likely need to be their first rounder.  You can also trade back and get Fauga or Guyton.  I haven't studied Latham and the others yet,

 

I'd love Bowers.  Outside of Harrison that's my first want at the moment in the range of their pick, I suspect Harrison is gone before their pick.

 

I don't want Bieniemy back and I presume i got nothing to worry about.

 

Cosmi at RG.  I can live with Leno at one of the other tackle spots if need be.   Stromberg had a good camp.  I know you aren't high on him, but I'd give him a shot or upgrade if a young center falls to their pick so i am not married to him.  You need to do what they failed to do last draft and should have done -- draft a potentially good tackle and guard.  

 

Wildcard is Fa.  Tackle usually sucks in FA.  But guard typically has a player or two.  Lets say this time Robert Hunt.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

In reality he did not play like the 4th best RT in the league here. He was hurt quite a bit and kind of went downhill (injuries ?) after a few good years. But should have not been let go for the rookie. Time to draft another RT and move on. 

We need a good OL coach too. Can we pry one away with Money, Promotion? Who?

[method man]

19 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

In reality he did not play like the 4th best RT in the league here. He was hurt quite a bit and kind of went downhill (injuries ?) after a few good years. But should have not been let go for the rookie. Time to draft another RT and move on. 

We need a good OL coach too. Can we pry one away with Money, Promotion? Who?

 

Morgan was coming off his best season in years in 2020 when Ron cut him that offseason. Letting an above average starting tackle on a bargain contract go is absolutely unforgivable. I am more pissed about this move vs. Ron trading Trent (he was backed into a corner) and letting Scherff go (which was the right move). Cutting Moses was a completely unforced error

[Silvernon]

I'm not concerned about RT. Having two early 2nds solves that with a competent scouting department.

 

Hopefully that is true for MLB if they keep the other 2nd rounder, but I think I would rather spend big bucks in FA. So tired of it being a weak point. 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, method man said:

 

Morgan was coming off his best season in years in 2020 when Ron cut him that offseason. Letting an above average starting tackle on a bargain contract go is absolutely unforgivable. I am more pissed about this move vs. Ron trading Trent (he was backed into a corner) and letting Scherff go (which was the right move). Cutting Moses was a completely unforced error

Yeah I never got the Moses hate. He was always rock solid, Sure he had the occasional penalty but that happens to every OL(see Jason Kelce's back to back False Starts yesterday). The big thing is dude was durable AF and didn't miss a start.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinsfan66 said:

In reality he did not play like the 4th best RT in the league here. He was hurt quite a bit and kind of went downhill (injuries ?) after a few good years. But should have not been let go for the rookie. Time to draft another RT and move on. 

We need a good OL coach too. Can we pry one away with Money, Promotion? Who?

 

After becoming the starter in 2015 he played in every game.  Really good durability.  He was good here.  He's been good since he left, not just this year.

[Warhead36]

Ron inherited an OL of Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, and Morgan Moses. Two All Pros and one rock solid starter.

 

He let them all go for a grand total of one mid round pick which turned into Ben St. Juste.

 

What a joke. That alone should result in his firing. Complete dismantling of a top 10 OL into the league's worst.

 

 

"You've gotta prove it to me" Eff you Ron. Loser.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Warhead36